Re: You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer

[Guest guest]

He would not be my Doctor, john.

Subject: "You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer"To: "hrpca group" <hrpca >, "PCa Under Yahoo Group" <prostatecancerunder50 >, "PPML List" , "Yahoo PCaGroup" <ProstateCancerSupport >Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM

This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed the link and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. Your thoughts?Here's the link-- Emersonwww.flhw.org

[Guest guest]

Correct me if I'm wrong; but isn't the number of men who die of PCa each year

over 26,000?

 

It all depends on age, stage, aggressive, etc.

 

Debbie

From: Emerson <davidemerson@ flhw.org>

Subject: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer "

To: " hrpca group " <hrpcayahoogroups (DOT) com>, " PCa Under Yahoo Group "

<prostatecancerunder 50yahoogroups (DOT) com>, " PPML List " <PROSTATElistserv (DOT)

acor.org>, " Yahoo PCaGroup " <ProstateCancerSuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM

This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed the link and

was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor.  Your thoughts?

Here's the link

--

Emerson

www.flhw.org

[Guest guest]

Correct me if I'm wrong; but isn't the number of men who die of PCa each year

over 26,000?

 

It all depends on age, stage, aggressive, etc.

 

Debbie

From: Emerson <davidemerson@ flhw.org>

Subject: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer "

To: " hrpca group " <hrpcayahoogroups (DOT) com>, " PCa Under Yahoo Group "

<prostatecancerunder 50yahoogroups (DOT) com>, " PPML List " <PROSTATElistserv (DOT)

acor.org>, " Yahoo PCaGroup " <ProstateCancerSuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM

This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed the link and

was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor.  Your thoughts?

Here's the link

--

Emerson

www.flhw.org

[Guest guest]

Debbie, What are the ages that you have seen in the studies . The man who would be next after my robotic was only 36. I am only 58, and before the s... hit the fan, I looked 43. The first thing my Dr. said to me " If you do nothing, you will die." He did not sugarcoat anything. I knew what would happen after robotic..All of it. He held nothing back.The Team, Dr/Surgeon, Nurse Practitioner( who put me on Wellbutrin for depression, Trazodone to help me sleep, and the Ed Nurse, who covered what I would do to recover. I do know they are treating younger and younger men, from 21yrs and up for reproductive cancers, that in the past only 65-70 yrs developed.From: Emerson <davidemerson@ flhw.org>Subject: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] "You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer"To:

"hrpca group" <hrpcayahoogroups (DOT) com>, "PCa Under Yahoo Group" <prostatecancerunde r 50yahoogroups (DOT) com>, "PPML List" <PROSTATElistserv (DOT) acor.org>, "Yahoo PCaGroup" <ProstateCancerSupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com>Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PMThis was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed the link and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. Your thoughts?Here's the link-- Emersonwww.flhw.org

[Guest guest]

I think it is important to keep in focus

the fact that the median age at which men die from prostate cancer has not

changed significantly for many years. It is still in the mid-80s. In other

words, half the men who die from prostate cancer are older than 85 when they do

so. And, in fact, depending which sets of figures you look at, yo will find

that only about 10% of prostate cancer deaths occur in men under the age of 70.

It is indeed tragic when young men die

from this disease, but very few of them do and we should into confuse being

diagnosed with PCa and being under a threat from dying from the disease –

they are only too often very different things. The PCa that needs early

attention is identified by a high Gleason Score and possibly evidence of

metastasis.

All the best

Terry Herbert

I have no medical

qualifications but I was diagnosed in ‘96: and have learned a bit since

then.

My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

Dr

“Snuffy” Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of

the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate

data "

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Otey

Sent: Friday, 5 December 2008 3:32

PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

" You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer "

Debbie, What are the ages that you have seen in the

studies . The man who would be next after my robotic was only 36. I am only

58, and before the s... hit the fan, I looked 43. The first thing my Dr.

said to me " If you do nothing, you will die. " He did not sugarcoat

anything. I knew what would happen after robotic..All of it. He held nothing

back.The Team, Dr/Surgeon, Nurse Practitioner( who put me on Wellbutrin for depression,

Trazodone to help me sleep, and the Ed Nurse, who covered what I would do to

recover. I do know they are treating younger and younger men, from

21yrs and up for reproductive cancers, that in the past only 65-70 yrs

developed.

From: Emerson <davidemerson@ flhw.org>

Subject: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate

Cancer "

To: " hrpca group " <hrpcayahoogroups (DOT) com>, " PCa Under

Yahoo Group " <prostatecancerunde r 50yahoogroups (DOT) com>,

" PPML List " <PROSTATElistserv (DOT) acor.org>, " Yahoo

PCaGroup " <ProstateCancerSupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM

This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed the link

and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. Your

thoughts?

Here's the link

--

Emerson

www.flhw.org

[Guest guest]

I think it is important to keep in focus

the fact that the median age at which men die from prostate cancer has not

changed significantly for many years. It is still in the mid-80s. In other

words, half the men who die from prostate cancer are older than 85 when they do

so. And, in fact, depending which sets of figures you look at, yo will find

that only about 10% of prostate cancer deaths occur in men under the age of 70.

It is indeed tragic when young men die

from this disease, but very few of them do and we should into confuse being

diagnosed with PCa and being under a threat from dying from the disease –

they are only too often very different things. The PCa that needs early

attention is identified by a high Gleason Score and possibly evidence of

metastasis.

All the best

Terry Herbert

I have no medical

qualifications but I was diagnosed in ‘96: and have learned a bit since

then.

My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

Dr

“Snuffy” Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of

the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate

data "

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Otey

Sent: Friday, 5 December 2008 3:32

PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

" You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer "

Debbie, What are the ages that you have seen in the

studies . The man who would be next after my robotic was only 36. I am only

58, and before the s... hit the fan, I looked 43. The first thing my Dr.

said to me " If you do nothing, you will die. " He did not sugarcoat

anything. I knew what would happen after robotic..All of it. He held nothing

back.The Team, Dr/Surgeon, Nurse Practitioner( who put me on Wellbutrin for depression,

Trazodone to help me sleep, and the Ed Nurse, who covered what I would do to

recover. I do know they are treating younger and younger men, from

21yrs and up for reproductive cancers, that in the past only 65-70 yrs

developed.

From: Emerson <davidemerson@ flhw.org>

Subject: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate

Cancer "

To: " hrpca group " <hrpcayahoogroups (DOT) com>, " PCa Under

Yahoo Group " <prostatecancerunde r 50yahoogroups (DOT) com>,

" PPML List " <PROSTATElistserv (DOT) acor.org>, " Yahoo

PCaGroup " <ProstateCancerSupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM

This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed the link

and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. Your

thoughts?

Here's the link

--

Emerson

www.flhw.org

[Guest guest]

I think it is important to keep in focus

the fact that the median age at which men die from prostate cancer has not

changed significantly for many years. It is still in the mid-80s. In other

words, half the men who die from prostate cancer are older than 85 when they do

so. And, in fact, depending which sets of figures you look at, yo will find

that only about 10% of prostate cancer deaths occur in men under the age of 70.

It is indeed tragic when young men die

from this disease, but very few of them do and we should into confuse being

diagnosed with PCa and being under a threat from dying from the disease –

they are only too often very different things. The PCa that needs early

attention is identified by a high Gleason Score and possibly evidence of

metastasis.

All the best

Terry Herbert

I have no medical

qualifications but I was diagnosed in ‘96: and have learned a bit since

then.

My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

Dr

“Snuffy” Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of

the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate

data "

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Otey

Sent: Friday, 5 December 2008 3:32

PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

" You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer "

Debbie, What are the ages that you have seen in the

studies . The man who would be next after my robotic was only 36. I am only

58, and before the s... hit the fan, I looked 43. The first thing my Dr.

said to me " If you do nothing, you will die. " He did not sugarcoat

anything. I knew what would happen after robotic..All of it. He held nothing

back.The Team, Dr/Surgeon, Nurse Practitioner( who put me on Wellbutrin for depression,

Trazodone to help me sleep, and the Ed Nurse, who covered what I would do to

recover. I do know they are treating younger and younger men, from

21yrs and up for reproductive cancers, that in the past only 65-70 yrs

developed.

From: Emerson <davidemerson@ flhw.org>

Subject: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate

Cancer "

To: " hrpca group " <hrpcayahoogroups (DOT) com>, " PCa Under

Yahoo Group " <prostatecancerunde r 50yahoogroups (DOT) com>,

" PPML List " <PROSTATElistserv (DOT) acor.org>, " Yahoo

PCaGroup " <ProstateCancerSupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com>

Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM

This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed the link

and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. Your

thoughts?

Here's the link

--

Emerson

www.flhw.org

[Guest guest]

If you read carefully what Dr. Levister actually says it is contradictory. His initial statement that you are not going to die is then contradicted by his statements " In fact this fear driven, physician distrusting 'do nothing' attitude

is largely responsible for the alarming number of African-American men

who delay testing or treatment and die needlessly from prostate cancer. " He actually acknowledges that neglected prostate cancer does kill. I am gong to project, but I think he was trying to calm this man down so that he would go back to his doctor. I do not agree with this method because it is neither either accurate, honest or good for the general condition of prostate cancer research funding. It does hurt as it reinforces that terrible myth that pc is a " good cancer " or a cancer you die with and not from. We need to battle this type of nonsensical statement and so it is sad to hear it from a doctor, especially a black doctor on a web site called balackvoicenews. It hurts the black community and it hurts all men.

www.advancedprostatecancer.net

This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed the link and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. Your thoughts?Here's the link

-- Emersonwww.flhw.org

-- T NowakTo learn about the Petition to Make Prostate Cancer a National Priority go to http://www.prostatecancerpetition.org

[Guest guest]

He would not be my Doctor, john.

Hi:

Well I guess he COULD be mine. You need to read what he is saying. What he is really saying is that you are not going to die tomorrow, or anytime soon after that, and you need to take some time to make the right decision. I'm 73 with gleason 6/6, been counseled both in Canada and the USA, and none of my Doctors have be pushing for surgery. It has taken me 5 months to finally decide to accept radiation instead of watchful/waiting. Nothing has changed in that time. After considerable consideration I'm starting radiation next week because I could not find any excuse not to. I don't feel this Dr. was trying to advise you not to consider the right treatment. Bye

EmileMake your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

The headline doesn't summarize the article very well. Fear can

paralyze reason. The doctors _initial_ comment is designed to reduce

the fear, so that the patient can _think_ and listen, rather than panic.

What the doctor says (at length, with good reasoning) is:

. . . You should follow-up a high PSA reading with further testing.

What's wrong with that advice?

PS -- Yes, the doctor should start by saying:

.. . . You're _probably_ not going to die of prostate cancer.

>

>

> Subject: " You're Not Going to Die of

Prostate Cancer "

> To: " hrpca group " <hrpca >, " PCa Under Yahoo Group "

<prostatecancerunder50 >, " PPML List " ,

" Yahoo PCaGroup " <ProstateCancerSupport >

> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed

the link and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. 

Your thoughts?

> Here's the link

>

> --

>

> Emerson

> www.flhw.org

>

[Guest guest]

The headline doesn't summarize the article very well. Fear can

paralyze reason. The doctors _initial_ comment is designed to reduce

the fear, so that the patient can _think_ and listen, rather than panic.

What the doctor says (at length, with good reasoning) is:

. . . You should follow-up a high PSA reading with further testing.

What's wrong with that advice?

PS -- Yes, the doctor should start by saying:

.. . . You're _probably_ not going to die of prostate cancer.

>

>

> Subject: " You're Not Going to Die of

Prostate Cancer "

> To: " hrpca group " <hrpca >, " PCa Under Yahoo Group "

<prostatecancerunder50 >, " PPML List " ,

" Yahoo PCaGroup " <ProstateCancerSupport >

> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed

the link and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. 

Your thoughts?

> Here's the link

>

> --

>

> Emerson

> www.flhw.org

>

[Guest guest]

The headline doesn't summarize the article very well. Fear can

paralyze reason. The doctors _initial_ comment is designed to reduce

the fear, so that the patient can _think_ and listen, rather than panic.

What the doctor says (at length, with good reasoning) is:

. . . You should follow-up a high PSA reading with further testing.

What's wrong with that advice?

PS -- Yes, the doctor should start by saying:

.. . . You're _probably_ not going to die of prostate cancer.

>

>

> Subject: " You're Not Going to Die of

Prostate Cancer "

> To: " hrpca group " <hrpca >, " PCa Under Yahoo Group "

<prostatecancerunder50 >, " PPML List " ,

" Yahoo PCaGroup " <ProstateCancerSupport >

> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed

the link and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. 

Your thoughts?

> Here's the link

>

> --

>

> Emerson

> www.flhw.org

>

[Guest guest]

This is why I said " He would not be my Doctor. " and Why we can not

get the funding to find a way to stop this cancer. We do not talk

about PC, like they do breast cancer. We are ashamed that we have,or

have had PC. We do not want anyone to know about problems with ED,

which can start before we find out we have PC. I will keep saying in

a loud voice " This is not an Old Mans Cancer. " I do not think 40+ is

old. We do not have men who will ask why no PC/ED funding and

research to restore what PC takes away, which might make more men see

a Dr. I respect Terrys wed site, and He is a link on ACS site too,

but watching and telling me I have cancer,and It will not Kill me,

because It is a " slow growing cancer " has got to stop. Had I not had

the guts to give up part of me,my cancer would kill Me. It was Fast

growing, Very agresive and very malignant. I do not want to offend,

but I did not want to die. In

ProstateCancerSupport , " Nowak "

wrote:

>

> If you read carefully what Dr. Levister actually says it is

contradictory.

> His initial statement that you are not going to die is then

contradicted by

> his statements " In fact this fear driven, physician distrusting 'do

nothing'

> attitude is largely responsible for the alarming number of African-

American

> men who delay testing or treatment and die needlessly from prostate

> cancer. " He actually acknowledges that neglected prostate cancer

does kill.

>

>

> " I do not agree with this method

> because it is neither either accurate, honest or good for the

general

> condition of prostate cancer research funding. It does hurt as it

reinforces

> that terrible myth that pc is a " good cancer " or a cancer you die

with and

> not from. We need to battle this type of nonsensical statement and

so it is

> sad to hear it from a doctor, especially a black doctor on a web

site called

> balackvoicenews. It hurts the black community and it hurts all

men. "

>

>

> www.advancedprostatecancer.net

> --

> T Nowak

> To learn about the Petition to Make Prostate Cancer a National

Priority

> go to http://www.prostatecancerpetition.org

>

[Guest guest]

This is why I said " He would not be my Doctor. " and Why we can not

get the funding to find a way to stop this cancer. We do not talk

about PC, like they do breast cancer. We are ashamed that we have,or

have had PC. We do not want anyone to know about problems with ED,

which can start before we find out we have PC. I will keep saying in

a loud voice " This is not an Old Mans Cancer. " I do not think 40+ is

old. We do not have men who will ask why no PC/ED funding and

research to restore what PC takes away, which might make more men see

a Dr. I respect Terrys wed site, and He is a link on ACS site too,

but watching and telling me I have cancer,and It will not Kill me,

because It is a " slow growing cancer " has got to stop. Had I not had

the guts to give up part of me,my cancer would kill Me. It was Fast

growing, Very agresive and very malignant. I do not want to offend,

but I did not want to die. In

ProstateCancerSupport , " Nowak "

wrote:

>

> If you read carefully what Dr. Levister actually says it is

contradictory.

> His initial statement that you are not going to die is then

contradicted by

> his statements " In fact this fear driven, physician distrusting 'do

nothing'

> attitude is largely responsible for the alarming number of African-

American

> men who delay testing or treatment and die needlessly from prostate

> cancer. " He actually acknowledges that neglected prostate cancer

does kill.

>

>

> " I do not agree with this method

> because it is neither either accurate, honest or good for the

general

> condition of prostate cancer research funding. It does hurt as it

reinforces

> that terrible myth that pc is a " good cancer " or a cancer you die

with and

> not from. We need to battle this type of nonsensical statement and

so it is

> sad to hear it from a doctor, especially a black doctor on a web

site called

> balackvoicenews. It hurts the black community and it hurts all

men. "

>

>

> www.advancedprostatecancer.net

> --

> T Nowak

> To learn about the Petition to Make Prostate Cancer a National

Priority

> go to http://www.prostatecancerpetition.org

>

[Guest guest]

This is why I said " He would not be my Doctor. " and Why we can not

get the funding to find a way to stop this cancer. We do not talk

about PC, like they do breast cancer. We are ashamed that we have,or

have had PC. We do not want anyone to know about problems with ED,

which can start before we find out we have PC. I will keep saying in

a loud voice " This is not an Old Mans Cancer. " I do not think 40+ is

old. We do not have men who will ask why no PC/ED funding and

research to restore what PC takes away, which might make more men see

a Dr. I respect Terrys wed site, and He is a link on ACS site too,

but watching and telling me I have cancer,and It will not Kill me,

because It is a " slow growing cancer " has got to stop. Had I not had

the guts to give up part of me,my cancer would kill Me. It was Fast

growing, Very agresive and very malignant. I do not want to offend,

but I did not want to die. In

ProstateCancerSupport , " Nowak "

wrote:

>

> If you read carefully what Dr. Levister actually says it is

contradictory.

> His initial statement that you are not going to die is then

contradicted by

> his statements " In fact this fear driven, physician distrusting 'do

nothing'

> attitude is largely responsible for the alarming number of African-

American

> men who delay testing or treatment and die needlessly from prostate

> cancer. " He actually acknowledges that neglected prostate cancer

does kill.

>

>

> " I do not agree with this method

> because it is neither either accurate, honest or good for the

general

> condition of prostate cancer research funding. It does hurt as it

reinforces

> that terrible myth that pc is a " good cancer " or a cancer you die

with and

> not from. We need to battle this type of nonsensical statement and

so it is

> sad to hear it from a doctor, especially a black doctor on a web

site called

> balackvoicenews. It hurts the black community and it hurts all

men. "

>

>

> www.advancedprostatecancer.net

> --

> T Nowak

> To learn about the Petition to Make Prostate Cancer a National

Priority

> go to http://www.prostatecancerpetition.org

>

[Guest guest]

, Its an undoubted fact that year on year three times as many are diagnosed with PCa as die from it. The odds are certainly that most us us will not die from it. Even I with Gleason 9, original 62.4 PSA, ie very aggressive PCa, have an 89% chance of making 10 years more at the age of 65 after the treatment I've had. Catch it quickly enough and PCa will probably not kill. Neglect it and you may be one of the 30% or so whom it beats. But watchful waiting is not neglect. Terry has gathered ample evidence of the success of watchful waiting in the right cases. Yours wasn't one such and nor is mine, but for a slow growing, low Gleason and low PSA PCa, it seems sensible not to risk surgery. Many, maybe most, cases fall into that category, at least

in the early years. I thought the doctor was talking sense and had misconstrued what he had to say. I've never read anything but good sense in Terry's advice. He always strikes me as well balanced (for an Aussie)!

Xmas is coming; good will to all men.

To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Sunday, 7 December, 2008 6:18:59 PMSubject: Re: "You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer"

This is why I said "He would not be my Doctor." and Why we can not get the funding to find a way to stop this cancer. We do not talk about PC, like they do breast cancer. We are ashamed that we have,or have had PC. We do not want anyone to know about problems with ED, which can start before we find out we have PC. I will keep saying in a loud voice "This is not an Old Mans Cancer." I do not think 40+ is old. We do not have men who will ask why no PC/ED funding and research to restore what PC takes away, which might make more men see a Dr. I respect Terrys wed site, and He is a link on ACS site too, but watching and telling me I have cancer,and It will not Kill me, because It is a "slow growing cancer" has got to stop. Had I not had the guts to give up part of me,my cancer would kill Me. It was Fast growing, Very agresive and very malignant. I do not want to offend, but I did not want to die. In

ProstateCancerSuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com, " Nowak" <tnowak@ ...> wrote:>> If you read carefully what Dr. Levister actually says it is contradictory.> His initial statement that you are not going to die is then contradicted by> his statements "In fact this fear driven, physician distrusting 'do nothing'> attitude is largely responsible for the alarming number of African-American> men who delay testing or treatment and die needlessly from prostate> cancer." He actually acknowledges that neglected prostate cancer does kill.> > > "I do not agree with this method> because it is neither either accurate, honest or good for the general> condition of prostate cancer research funding. It does

hurt as it reinforces> that terrible myth that pc is a "good cancer" or a cancer you die with and> not from. We need to battle this type of nonsensical statement and so it is> sad to hear it from a doctor, especially a black doctor on a web site called> balackvoicenews. It hurts the black community and it hurts all men."> > > www.advancedprostat ecancer.net> -- > T Nowak> To learn about the Petition to Make Prostate Cancer a National Priority> go to http://www.prostate cancerpetition. org>

[Guest guest]

I dunno, I dunno, I know Terry has written a compelling argument for active surveillance but I just couldn't go that route. I am 52, diagnosed with prostate ca in 2/12 cores, 5% one core, 25% other core, 3+3=6 gleason score, PSA=2.85, clinical stage. T1C. I am the kind of guy that would be a candidate for active surveillance. But my father died of colon cancer in his 50s, my mother of breast cancer in her 60's. Watching my father die of that cancer convinced me never, never to die of cancer if I had a choice. I went with robotic prostatectomy, my incontinence is gone, my impotence remains, use injections for sex. First post-op PSA was .01 Pathological stage was T2a. It is true I have to watch my PSA for the rest of my life but I feel I did the best I could to eradicate this disease and get on with my life. I really don't want to dwell on prostate CA for the rest of my life............DAVID COLLINS wrote:

, Its an undoubted fact that year on year three times as many are diagnosed with PCa as die from it. The odds are certainly that most us us will not die from it. Even I with Gleason 9, original 62.4 PSA, ie very aggressive PCa, have an 89% chance of making 10 years more at the age of 65 after the treatment I've had. Catch it quickly enough and PCa will probably not kill. Neglect it and you may be one of the 30% or so whom it beats. But watchful

waiting is not neglect. Terry has gathered ample evidence of the success of watchful waiting in the right cases. Yours wasn't one such and nor is mine, but for a slow growing, low Gleason and low PSA PCa, it seems sensible not to risk surgery. Many, maybe most, cases fall into that category, at least in the early years. I thought the doctor was talking sense and had misconstrued what he had to say. I've never read anything but good sense in Terry's advice. He always strikes me as well balanced (for an Aussie)! Xmas is coming; good will to all men. From:

<otey236>To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Sunday, 7 December, 2008 6:18:59 PMSubject: Re: "You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer" This is why I said "He would not be my Doctor." and Why we can not get the funding to find a way to stop this cancer. We do not talk about PC, like they do breast cancer. We are ashamed that we have,or have had PC. We do not want anyone to know about problems with ED, which can start before we find out we have PC. I will keep saying in a loud voice "This is not an Old Mans Cancer." I do not think 40+ is old. We do not have men who will ask why no PC/ED funding and research to restore what PC takes away, which might make more men see a Dr. I respect

Terrys wed site, and He is a link on ACS site too, but watching and telling me I have cancer,and It will not Kill me, because It is a "slow growing cancer" has got to stop. Had I not had the guts to give up part of me,my cancer would kill Me. It was Fast growing, Very agresive and very malignant. I do not want to offend, but I did not want to die. In ProstateCancerSuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com, " Nowak" <tnowak@ ...> wrote:>> If you read carefully what Dr. Levister actually says it is contradictory.> His initial statement that you are not going to die is then contradicted by> his statements "In fact this fear driven, physician distrusting 'do nothing'> attitude is largely responsible for the alarming number of African-American> men

who delay testing or treatment and die needlessly from prostate> cancer." He actually acknowledges that neglected prostate cancer does kill.> > > "I do not agree with this method> because it is neither either accurate, honest or good for the general> condition of prostate cancer research funding. It does hurt as it reinforces> that terrible myth that pc is a "good cancer" or a cancer you die with and> not from. We need to battle this type of nonsensical statement and so it is> sad to hear it from a doctor, especially a black doctor on a web site called> balackvoicenews. It hurts the black community and it hurts all men."> > > www.advancedprostat ecancer.net> -- > T Nowak> To learn about the Petition to Make Prostate Cancer a National Priority> go to http://www.prostate cancerpetition. org>

[Guest guest]

and all,

You’ve highlighted a very important

point, one that I make myself again and again: Although there are sound logical

grounds for some of the men who are currently diagnosed with PCa for taking the

Active Surveillance route, we are not always logical beings and it is very

important to make decisions that we are personally comfortable with. Many men

have surgery because they cannot bear the thought of a tumour growing inside

them: they want it out. Others fear the knife: shudder at the thought of

someone cutting into them – and they choose radiotherapy. Others try some

of the other therapies for reasons that make sense to themselves – and maybe

not to others. But the point is that they must be comfortable with their

decision – that’s a big part of starting the healing process as far

as I am concerned.

I do post regularly about Active

Surveillance, but I have never suggested to anyone that they should follow this

course, merely that they should be aware of this option and if they feel it

suits their diagnosis and make up to make an appropriate choice.

As for being well balanced – well, I

am only an Aussie by adoption:- )

All the best

Terry Herbert

I have no medical

qualifications but I was diagnosed in ‘96: and have learned a bit since

then.

My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

Dr

“Snuffy” Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of

the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate

data "

From:

ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On Behalf Of Harwood

Sent: Monday, 8 December 2008 1:53

PM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

Re: " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate

Cancer "

I dunno,

I dunno, I know Terry has written a compelling argument for active surveillance

but I just couldn't go that route. I am 52, diagnosed with prostate ca in 2/12

cores, 5% one core, 25% other core, 3+3=6 gleason score, PSA=2.85, clinical

stage. T1C. I am the kind of guy that would be a candidate for active

surveillance. But my father died of colon cancer in his 50s, my

mother of breast cancer in her 60's. Watching my father die of that cancer

convinced me never, never to die of cancer if I had a choice. I went with

robotic prostatectomy, my incontinence is gone, my impotence remains, use

injections for sex. First post-op PSA was .01 Pathological stage was T2a. It is

true I have to watch my PSA for the rest of my life but I feel I did the best I

could to eradicate this disease and get on with my life. I really don't want to

dwell on prostate CA for the rest of my life............

DAVID COLLINS <sirenettabtinternet>

wrote:

, Its an undoubted fact that year on year three times as many are

diagnosed with PCa as die from it. The odds are certainly that most us us will

not die from it. Even I with Gleason 9, original 62.4 PSA, ie very aggressive

PCa, have an 89% chance of making 10 years more at the age of 65 after the

treatment I've had. Catch it quickly enough and PCa will probably not

kill. Neglect it and you may be one of the 30% or so whom it beats.

But watchful waiting is not neglect. Terry has gathered ample evidence of

the success of watchful waiting in the right cases. Yours wasn't one such

and nor is mine, but for a slow growing, low Gleason and low PSA PCa,

it seems sensible not to risk surgery. Many, maybe most, cases fall into

that category, at least in the early years. I thought the doctor was

talking sense and had misconstrued what he had to say. I've never

read anything but good sense in Terry's advice. He always strikes me

as well balanced (for an Aussie)!

Xmas is coming; good will to all men.

From:

<otey236>

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Sent: Sunday, 7 December, 2008

6:18:59 PM

Subject:

Re: " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer "

This is why I said

" He would not be my Doctor. " and Why we can not

get the funding to find a way to stop this cancer. We do not talk

about PC, like they do breast cancer. We are ashamed that we have,or

have had PC. We do not want anyone to know about problems with ED,

which can start before we find out we have PC. I will keep saying in

a loud voice " This is not an Old Mans Cancer. " I do not think 40+ is

old. We do not have men who will ask why no PC/ED funding and

research to restore what PC takes away, which might make more men see

a Dr. I respect Terrys wed site, and He is a link on ACS site too,

but watching and telling me I have cancer,and It will not Kill me,

because It is a " slow growing cancer " has got to stop. Had I not had

the guts to give up part of me,my cancer would kill Me. It was Fast

growing, Very agresive and very malignant. I do not want to offend,

but I did not want to die. In

ProstateCancerSuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT)

com, " Nowak " <tnowak@ ...>

wrote:

>

> If you read carefully what Dr. Levister actually says it is

contradictory.

> His initial statement that you are not going to die is then

contradicted by

> his statements " In fact this fear driven, physician distrusting 'do

nothing'

> attitude is largely responsible for the alarming number of African-

American

> men who delay testing or treatment and die needlessly from prostate

> cancer. " He actually acknowledges that neglected prostate cancer

does kill.

>

>

> " I do not agree with this method

> because it is neither either accurate, honest or good for the

general

> condition of prostate cancer research funding. It does hurt as it

reinforces

> that terrible myth that pc is a " good cancer " or a cancer you

die

with and

> not from. We need to battle this type of nonsensical statement and

so it is

> sad to hear it from a doctor, especially a black doctor on a web

site called

> balackvoicenews. It hurts the black community and it hurts all

men. "

>

>

> www.advancedprostat ecancer.net

> --

> T Nowak

> To learn about the Petition to Make Prostate Cancer a National

Priority

> go to http://www.prostate

cancerpetition. org

>

[Guest guest]

and all,

You’ve highlighted a very important

point, one that I make myself again and again: Although there are sound logical

grounds for some of the men who are currently diagnosed with PCa for taking the

Active Surveillance route, we are not always logical beings and it is very

important to make decisions that we are personally comfortable with. Many men

have surgery because they cannot bear the thought of a tumour growing inside

them: they want it out. Others fear the knife: shudder at the thought of

someone cutting into them – and they choose radiotherapy. Others try some

of the other therapies for reasons that make sense to themselves – and maybe

not to others. But the point is that they must be comfortable with their

decision – that’s a big part of starting the healing process as far

as I am concerned.

I do post regularly about Active

Surveillance, but I have never suggested to anyone that they should follow this

course, merely that they should be aware of this option and if they feel it

suits their diagnosis and make up to make an appropriate choice.

As for being well balanced – well, I

am only an Aussie by adoption:- )

All the best

Terry Herbert

I have no medical

qualifications but I was diagnosed in ‘96: and have learned a bit since

then.

My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

Dr

“Snuffy” Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of

the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate

data "

From:

ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On Behalf Of Harwood

Sent: Monday, 8 December 2008 1:53

PM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

Re: " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate

Cancer "

I dunno,

I dunno, I know Terry has written a compelling argument for active surveillance

but I just couldn't go that route. I am 52, diagnosed with prostate ca in 2/12

cores, 5% one core, 25% other core, 3+3=6 gleason score, PSA=2.85, clinical

stage. T1C. I am the kind of guy that would be a candidate for active

surveillance. But my father died of colon cancer in his 50s, my

mother of breast cancer in her 60's. Watching my father die of that cancer

convinced me never, never to die of cancer if I had a choice. I went with

robotic prostatectomy, my incontinence is gone, my impotence remains, use

injections for sex. First post-op PSA was .01 Pathological stage was T2a. It is

true I have to watch my PSA for the rest of my life but I feel I did the best I

could to eradicate this disease and get on with my life. I really don't want to

dwell on prostate CA for the rest of my life............

DAVID COLLINS <sirenettabtinternet>

wrote:

, Its an undoubted fact that year on year three times as many are

diagnosed with PCa as die from it. The odds are certainly that most us us will

not die from it. Even I with Gleason 9, original 62.4 PSA, ie very aggressive

PCa, have an 89% chance of making 10 years more at the age of 65 after the

treatment I've had. Catch it quickly enough and PCa will probably not

kill. Neglect it and you may be one of the 30% or so whom it beats.

But watchful waiting is not neglect. Terry has gathered ample evidence of

the success of watchful waiting in the right cases. Yours wasn't one such

and nor is mine, but for a slow growing, low Gleason and low PSA PCa,

it seems sensible not to risk surgery. Many, maybe most, cases fall into

that category, at least in the early years. I thought the doctor was

talking sense and had misconstrued what he had to say. I've never

read anything but good sense in Terry's advice. He always strikes me

as well balanced (for an Aussie)!

Xmas is coming; good will to all men.

From:

<otey236>

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Sent: Sunday, 7 December, 2008

6:18:59 PM

Subject:

Re: " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer "

This is why I said

" He would not be my Doctor. " and Why we can not

get the funding to find a way to stop this cancer. We do not talk

about PC, like they do breast cancer. We are ashamed that we have,or

have had PC. We do not want anyone to know about problems with ED,

which can start before we find out we have PC. I will keep saying in

a loud voice " This is not an Old Mans Cancer. " I do not think 40+ is

old. We do not have men who will ask why no PC/ED funding and

research to restore what PC takes away, which might make more men see

a Dr. I respect Terrys wed site, and He is a link on ACS site too,

but watching and telling me I have cancer,and It will not Kill me,

because It is a " slow growing cancer " has got to stop. Had I not had

the guts to give up part of me,my cancer would kill Me. It was Fast

growing, Very agresive and very malignant. I do not want to offend,

but I did not want to die. In

ProstateCancerSuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT)

com, " Nowak " <tnowak@ ...>

wrote:

>

> If you read carefully what Dr. Levister actually says it is

contradictory.

> His initial statement that you are not going to die is then

contradicted by

> his statements " In fact this fear driven, physician distrusting 'do

nothing'

> attitude is largely responsible for the alarming number of African-

American

> men who delay testing or treatment and die needlessly from prostate

> cancer. " He actually acknowledges that neglected prostate cancer

does kill.

>

>

> " I do not agree with this method

> because it is neither either accurate, honest or good for the

general

> condition of prostate cancer research funding. It does hurt as it

reinforces

> that terrible myth that pc is a " good cancer " or a cancer you

die

with and

> not from. We need to battle this type of nonsensical statement and

so it is

> sad to hear it from a doctor, especially a black doctor on a web

site called

> balackvoicenews. It hurts the black community and it hurts all

men. "

>

>

> www.advancedprostat ecancer.net

> --

> T Nowak

> To learn about the Petition to Make Prostate Cancer a National

Priority

> go to http://www.prostate

cancerpetition. org

>

[Guest guest]

and all,

You’ve highlighted a very important

point, one that I make myself again and again: Although there are sound logical

grounds for some of the men who are currently diagnosed with PCa for taking the

Active Surveillance route, we are not always logical beings and it is very

important to make decisions that we are personally comfortable with. Many men

have surgery because they cannot bear the thought of a tumour growing inside

them: they want it out. Others fear the knife: shudder at the thought of

someone cutting into them – and they choose radiotherapy. Others try some

of the other therapies for reasons that make sense to themselves – and maybe

not to others. But the point is that they must be comfortable with their

decision – that’s a big part of starting the healing process as far

as I am concerned.

I do post regularly about Active

Surveillance, but I have never suggested to anyone that they should follow this

course, merely that they should be aware of this option and if they feel it

suits their diagnosis and make up to make an appropriate choice.

As for being well balanced – well, I

am only an Aussie by adoption:- )

All the best

Terry Herbert

I have no medical

qualifications but I was diagnosed in ‘96: and have learned a bit since

then.

My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

Dr

“Snuffy” Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of

the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate

data "

From:

ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On Behalf Of Harwood

Sent: Monday, 8 December 2008 1:53

PM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

Re: " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate

Cancer "

I dunno,

I dunno, I know Terry has written a compelling argument for active surveillance

but I just couldn't go that route. I am 52, diagnosed with prostate ca in 2/12

cores, 5% one core, 25% other core, 3+3=6 gleason score, PSA=2.85, clinical

stage. T1C. I am the kind of guy that would be a candidate for active

surveillance. But my father died of colon cancer in his 50s, my

mother of breast cancer in her 60's. Watching my father die of that cancer

convinced me never, never to die of cancer if I had a choice. I went with

robotic prostatectomy, my incontinence is gone, my impotence remains, use

injections for sex. First post-op PSA was .01 Pathological stage was T2a. It is

true I have to watch my PSA for the rest of my life but I feel I did the best I

could to eradicate this disease and get on with my life. I really don't want to

dwell on prostate CA for the rest of my life............

DAVID COLLINS <sirenettabtinternet>

wrote:

, Its an undoubted fact that year on year three times as many are

diagnosed with PCa as die from it. The odds are certainly that most us us will

not die from it. Even I with Gleason 9, original 62.4 PSA, ie very aggressive

PCa, have an 89% chance of making 10 years more at the age of 65 after the

treatment I've had. Catch it quickly enough and PCa will probably not

kill. Neglect it and you may be one of the 30% or so whom it beats.

But watchful waiting is not neglect. Terry has gathered ample evidence of

the success of watchful waiting in the right cases. Yours wasn't one such

and nor is mine, but for a slow growing, low Gleason and low PSA PCa,

it seems sensible not to risk surgery. Many, maybe most, cases fall into

that category, at least in the early years. I thought the doctor was

talking sense and had misconstrued what he had to say. I've never

read anything but good sense in Terry's advice. He always strikes me

as well balanced (for an Aussie)!

Xmas is coming; good will to all men.

From:

<otey236>

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Sent: Sunday, 7 December, 2008

6:18:59 PM

Subject:

Re: " You're Not Going to Die of Prostate Cancer "

This is why I said

" He would not be my Doctor. " and Why we can not

get the funding to find a way to stop this cancer. We do not talk

about PC, like they do breast cancer. We are ashamed that we have,or

have had PC. We do not want anyone to know about problems with ED,

which can start before we find out we have PC. I will keep saying in

a loud voice " This is not an Old Mans Cancer. " I do not think 40+ is

old. We do not have men who will ask why no PC/ED funding and

research to restore what PC takes away, which might make more men see

a Dr. I respect Terrys wed site, and He is a link on ACS site too,

but watching and telling me I have cancer,and It will not Kill me,

because It is a " slow growing cancer " has got to stop. Had I not had

the guts to give up part of me,my cancer would kill Me. It was Fast

growing, Very agresive and very malignant. I do not want to offend,

but I did not want to die. In

ProstateCancerSuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT)

com, " Nowak " <tnowak@ ...>

wrote:

>

> If you read carefully what Dr. Levister actually says it is

contradictory.

> His initial statement that you are not going to die is then

contradicted by

> his statements " In fact this fear driven, physician distrusting 'do

nothing'

> attitude is largely responsible for the alarming number of African-

American

> men who delay testing or treatment and die needlessly from prostate

> cancer. " He actually acknowledges that neglected prostate cancer

does kill.

>

>

> " I do not agree with this method

> because it is neither either accurate, honest or good for the

general

> condition of prostate cancer research funding. It does hurt as it

reinforces

> that terrible myth that pc is a " good cancer " or a cancer you

die

with and

> not from. We need to battle this type of nonsensical statement and

so it is

> sad to hear it from a doctor, especially a black doctor on a web

site called

> balackvoicenews. It hurts the black community and it hurts all

men. "

>

>

> www.advancedprostat ecancer.net

> --

> T Nowak

> To learn about the Petition to Make Prostate Cancer a National

Priority

> go to http://www.prostate

cancerpetition. org

>

[Guest guest]

The headline is sadly indicative of how medical schools continue to churn out competently trained physicians who remain coldly indifferent to the emotional turmoil which this insidious disease foists upon men.

Although I agree with on what the doctor was trying to say, his mangled communication reminded of an answer provided by Lori Hope in an interview from TIME:

"You surveyed about 70 cancer patients for your book. What were some of their most painful examples of misfired communication?

There was a husband who said to his wife, right after the bandages were removed from her mastectomy surgery, "Oh, look, the Bride of enstein." He was trying to be funny. I've seen people hurt so deeply. One patient had a friend say, "You're no fun to be with." It's almost unbelievable."

> > > > From: Emerson davidemerson@> > Subject: "You're Not Going to Die of> Prostate Cancer"> > To: "hrpca group" hrpca , "PCa Under Yahoo Group"> prostatecancerunder50 , "PPML List" PROSTATE@,> "Yahoo PCaGroup" ProstateCancerSupport > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed> the link and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. > Your thoughts?> > Here's the link> > > > -- > > > > Emerson> > www.flhw.org> >>

[Guest guest]

The headline is sadly indicative of how medical schools continue to churn out competently trained physicians who remain coldly indifferent to the emotional turmoil which this insidious disease foists upon men.

Although I agree with on what the doctor was trying to say, his mangled communication reminded of an answer provided by Lori Hope in an interview from TIME:

"You surveyed about 70 cancer patients for your book. What were some of their most painful examples of misfired communication?

There was a husband who said to his wife, right after the bandages were removed from her mastectomy surgery, "Oh, look, the Bride of enstein." He was trying to be funny. I've seen people hurt so deeply. One patient had a friend say, "You're no fun to be with." It's almost unbelievable."

> > > > From: Emerson davidemerson@> > Subject: "You're Not Going to Die of> Prostate Cancer"> > To: "hrpca group" hrpca , "PCa Under Yahoo Group"> prostatecancerunder50 , "PPML List" PROSTATE@,> "Yahoo PCaGroup" ProstateCancerSupport > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:13 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This was the headline I ran across at Google news today. I followed> the link and was surprised by some of the statements from the doctor. > Your thoughts?> > Here's the link> > > > -- > > > > Emerson> > www.flhw.org> >>