Discussion on proton therapy - no responses please

[Guest guest]

If you want to reply to this please respond to bryan.metcalf@...

Over the weekend I stopped the discussion on proton therapy because I had asked two protagonists to come up with a joint statement off group.

This may have taken the form of an agreement to disagree.

May I apologise to the group and the two people for stopping the discussion at that point, but I stopped it because it was becoming an interchange between two people who are both right.

My take on the situation is this.

One is a patient who has been very pleased with the results of his therapy, as it seems most proton patients are, plus he is very satisfied with the level of research that has been done to show how good it is.

The proof required by the other person is inherent in his training plus the fact that he shares information with others on a professional, can be sued, basis.

Thus this requires two different levels of proof and by implication research papers are read more critically by the latter than the first.

Without the first, people who are willing to experience treatments before all professionals are happy with them, we would have no progress. Without the second group, who show some pessimism, there would be no checks and balances.

Proton therapy remains one of the choices for those who can access and afford it, time will tell if cure rates are as high or better then other radical therapies. I tend to think it takes at least 10 years with slow growing cancers to be sure of non progression rates.

My best wishes to all of you.

[Guest guest]

All, First let me say that I was not privy to the discussion referred to here. Nor do I care at all about the fine points either side has made in regards to proton, or any other treatment of choice. The key word here is "of choice" . Let's face it. Nobody really knows the best treatment for everyone. This is not possible at this point in history. So, we all must choose what is best for ourselves based on our own understanding and research. I have looked at this group for nearly three years now and have found that nearly everyone who posts is well intended. That is a given. I do not always agree with every post but often I find something of value in each of them. I want everyone to post here as I learn much from everyone. Each of us has to pick and choose based on our own

education and understanding, and finances. My own experience has led me down a path that has had me spend tens of thousands of dollars and as yet I have found no answers to all my questions. It seems we are all sitting at a poker table without knowing how many cards are yet to be dealt or what the odds may be. Instead of concentrating on this we are discussing the size and color of the playing cards and losing focus on the good of all. I find it counterproductive to be distracted by modalities when a true cure is truly the goal for all of us. I do not care at all if surgery, HIFU, Proton, IMRT or whatever is the best for anyone. This is all BS.. The question here is how we, as a group, can make our lives better. The primary point here is that we should share information in order to inform, rather than to influence. As for myself, I do have opinions deeply held, but when I post I

always have in mind that if anyone should act upon them, I may carry the joy, or guilt of influencing their decision. The guilt is the burden that we must always keep in mind here. None of us would like to learn that what we might have said months or even years ago, might have led to some brother making a huge mistake. We need to keep this in mind always. I am finished venting now, thanks for your time. And truly, the best to you all,JeffSubject: Discussion on proton therapy - no responses pleaseTo: "Prostate Cancer Support"

<ProstateCancerSupport >Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 5:49 PM

If you want to reply to this please respond to bryan.metcalf@ virgin.net

Over the weekend I stopped the discussion on proton therapy because I had asked two protagonists to come up with a joint statement off group.

This may have taken the form of an agreement to disagree.

May I apologise to the group and the two people for stopping the discussion at that point, but I stopped it because it was becoming an interchange between two people who are both right.

My take on the situation is this.

One is a patient who has been very pleased with the results of his therapy, as it seems most proton patients are, plus he is very satisfied with the level of research that has been done to show how good it is.

The proof required by the other person is inherent in his training plus the fact that he shares information with others on a professional, can be sued, basis.

Thus this requires two different levels of proof and by implication research papers are read more critically by the latter than the first.

Without the first, people who are willing to experience treatments before all professionals are happy with them, we would have no progress. Without the second group, who show some pessimism, there would be no checks and balances.

Proton therapy remains one of the choices for those who can access and afford it, time will tell if cure rates are as high or better then other radical therapies. I tend to think it takes at least 10 years with slow growing cancers to be sure of non progression rates.

My best wishes to all of you.

[Guest guest]

All, First let me say that I was not privy to the discussion referred to here. Nor do I care at all about the fine points either side has made in regards to proton, or any other treatment of choice. The key word here is "of choice" . Let's face it. Nobody really knows the best treatment for everyone. This is not possible at this point in history. So, we all must choose what is best for ourselves based on our own understanding and research. I have looked at this group for nearly three years now and have found that nearly everyone who posts is well intended. That is a given. I do not always agree with every post but often I find something of value in each of them. I want everyone to post here as I learn much from everyone. Each of us has to pick and choose based on our own

education and understanding, and finances. My own experience has led me down a path that has had me spend tens of thousands of dollars and as yet I have found no answers to all my questions. It seems we are all sitting at a poker table without knowing how many cards are yet to be dealt or what the odds may be. Instead of concentrating on this we are discussing the size and color of the playing cards and losing focus on the good of all. I find it counterproductive to be distracted by modalities when a true cure is truly the goal for all of us. I do not care at all if surgery, HIFU, Proton, IMRT or whatever is the best for anyone. This is all BS.. The question here is how we, as a group, can make our lives better. The primary point here is that we should share information in order to inform, rather than to influence. As for myself, I do have opinions deeply held, but when I post I

always have in mind that if anyone should act upon them, I may carry the joy, or guilt of influencing their decision. The guilt is the burden that we must always keep in mind here. None of us would like to learn that what we might have said months or even years ago, might have led to some brother making a huge mistake. We need to keep this in mind always. I am finished venting now, thanks for your time. And truly, the best to you all,JeffSubject: Discussion on proton therapy - no responses pleaseTo: "Prostate Cancer Support"

<ProstateCancerSupport >Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 5:49 PM

If you want to reply to this please respond to bryan.metcalf@ virgin.net

Over the weekend I stopped the discussion on proton therapy because I had asked two protagonists to come up with a joint statement off group.

This may have taken the form of an agreement to disagree.

May I apologise to the group and the two people for stopping the discussion at that point, but I stopped it because it was becoming an interchange between two people who are both right.

My take on the situation is this.

One is a patient who has been very pleased with the results of his therapy, as it seems most proton patients are, plus he is very satisfied with the level of research that has been done to show how good it is.

The proof required by the other person is inherent in his training plus the fact that he shares information with others on a professional, can be sued, basis.

Thus this requires two different levels of proof and by implication research papers are read more critically by the latter than the first.

Without the first, people who are willing to experience treatments before all professionals are happy with them, we would have no progress. Without the second group, who show some pessimism, there would be no checks and balances.

Proton therapy remains one of the choices for those who can access and afford it, time will tell if cure rates are as high or better then other radical therapies. I tend to think it takes at least 10 years with slow growing cancers to be sure of non progression rates.

My best wishes to all of you.

[Guest guest]

All, First let me say that I was not privy to the discussion referred to here. Nor do I care at all about the fine points either side has made in regards to proton, or any other treatment of choice. The key word here is "of choice" . Let's face it. Nobody really knows the best treatment for everyone. This is not possible at this point in history. So, we all must choose what is best for ourselves based on our own understanding and research. I have looked at this group for nearly three years now and have found that nearly everyone who posts is well intended. That is a given. I do not always agree with every post but often I find something of value in each of them. I want everyone to post here as I learn much from everyone. Each of us has to pick and choose based on our own

education and understanding, and finances. My own experience has led me down a path that has had me spend tens of thousands of dollars and as yet I have found no answers to all my questions. It seems we are all sitting at a poker table without knowing how many cards are yet to be dealt or what the odds may be. Instead of concentrating on this we are discussing the size and color of the playing cards and losing focus on the good of all. I find it counterproductive to be distracted by modalities when a true cure is truly the goal for all of us. I do not care at all if surgery, HIFU, Proton, IMRT or whatever is the best for anyone. This is all BS.. The question here is how we, as a group, can make our lives better. The primary point here is that we should share information in order to inform, rather than to influence. As for myself, I do have opinions deeply held, but when I post I

always have in mind that if anyone should act upon them, I may carry the joy, or guilt of influencing their decision. The guilt is the burden that we must always keep in mind here. None of us would like to learn that what we might have said months or even years ago, might have led to some brother making a huge mistake. We need to keep this in mind always. I am finished venting now, thanks for your time. And truly, the best to you all,JeffSubject: Discussion on proton therapy - no responses pleaseTo: "Prostate Cancer Support"

<ProstateCancerSupport >Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 5:49 PM

If you want to reply to this please respond to bryan.metcalf@ virgin.net

Over the weekend I stopped the discussion on proton therapy because I had asked two protagonists to come up with a joint statement off group.

This may have taken the form of an agreement to disagree.

May I apologise to the group and the two people for stopping the discussion at that point, but I stopped it because it was becoming an interchange between two people who are both right.

My take on the situation is this.

One is a patient who has been very pleased with the results of his therapy, as it seems most proton patients are, plus he is very satisfied with the level of research that has been done to show how good it is.

The proof required by the other person is inherent in his training plus the fact that he shares information with others on a professional, can be sued, basis.

Thus this requires two different levels of proof and by implication research papers are read more critically by the latter than the first.

Without the first, people who are willing to experience treatments before all professionals are happy with them, we would have no progress. Without the second group, who show some pessimism, there would be no checks and balances.

Proton therapy remains one of the choices for those who can access and afford it, time will tell if cure rates are as high or better then other radical therapies. I tend to think it takes at least 10 years with slow growing cancers to be sure of non progression rates.

My best wishes to all of you.