Re: NGO to sue Ramdev over AIDS claim

[Guest guest]

Dear Members

I do not understand why so much hue and cry on the issue of Baba Ramdev. I can

understand that Baba Ramdev's basic purpose or message is " By Yoga, one can

improve health and good health could have better resistance power and immune

system and possibly that could help the AIDS patient to sustain to live a longer

spawn better life " . You may not call it a cure but atleast one can call it a

better management to live with AIDS.

Another point worth consideration is if Baba Ramdev's statement can cause such a

big harm to humanity, why not to use his such a powerful influence for the

prevention of AIDS. If NGO's and PHO's world over are so much concern with a

statement of Baba, if his cooperation is sought to diseminate the right

knowledge of AIDS for its prevention, it may be miracle and goal could be

achieved much faster what could not be achieved in last 20 years.

Ultimately we are working for the well being of the people and society.

Dr. Niranjan from Canada

Dr. NIranjan Swaroop Sharma

e-mail: <evadona@...>

[Guest guest]

Dear FORUM,

I thank Dr. Niranjan and others for their concern and comments on the

controversy vis-a-vis Ramdev Baba's miracle cure on HIV/AIDS.

Dr. Niranjan's suggestion of utilising the influential people like Baba Ramdev

for larger AIDS Awareness is well taken. And for your kind information, we did

meet Baba Ramdev a couple of months back in Mumbai.

We requested him to start talking about prevention and control of HIV/AIDS and

what good Yoga can do to the people living with HIV/AIDS.

That could be one of the reasons, why Baba started his interest in HIV/AIDS.

However, we never expected him to make irresponsible statements like " Yoga can

cure AIDS " and that " the condoms don't prevent HIV " and we can be blamed for the

overtures of Baba in this area, unrealistic of the consequences of our

well-intentioned initiative.

Sitting at a distance of half the globe, little you will understand what kind of

impact and flutter Baba's statements can cause and that the damage they can do.

Please understand that there is a great deal of difference between 'Yogan can

help HIV/AIDS patients " and " Yoga can cure AIDS " .

Dr. I S Gilada

e-mail: ihoaids@...

[Guest guest]

Dear Forum,

All of us must congratulate Dr.Ishwar Gilada. He has taken the bull by the

horns. It's time that quackary be named as exactly just that --quackary!

There is a certain logic to the history of science. For this i suggest some of

us must refer to Karl Popper, the hagiographer of science. The history of

science is a rigid and yet not logical science. For example, in school we learn

about Newton's Laws of Gravity but as you go to College and get into Higher

Physics, you come to know of how an electron behaves equally like a Particle and

also like a Wave. From this came a whole branch of science called Quantum

Mechanics.

However, some laws cannot be challenged. The Laws of Thermodynamics, for

example, cannot be challenged. This is also called the Law of Chaos. Here, for

example, if you see a glass bottle that is shattered automatically come together

again anmd becoming a whole unbroken bottle, you know the film is running

" backwards " . In other words, some laws are not reversible. A broken bottle

cannot be put together again.

The Laws of Clinical Medicine/Science are just as rigid. We learnt about HIV

from a disease called AIDS. Male homosexuals were dying in droves in California

and New York in the early 1980s. They traced it to a virus that destroyed the

body's immune system -- specifically the CD4 cells -- and therefore left it

vulnerable to all sorts of infections.Thus we came to know about the HIV virus

and AIDS.

Now a lot of people, including quite a few self-appointed fellows on this list,

point out that the virus has never been " seen " but that we only know about the

anti-bodies to it. However, this is why I mentined the Second Law of

Thermodynamics -- ALL the people who died of AIDS had those anti-bodies in huge

numbers in their blood. Nano-science (the science of minute atomic-sized

particles) proved that the anti-bodies were due to the body fighting a new kind

of virus called HIV. The virus working and structure have been quite well

studied if you are willing to take the trouble of studying it instead of

indulging in mumbo-jumbo.

Now there are plenty of " Placebo Sciences " . These are called the " Unexplained

Phenomenon " or " Magic Cures " or better still for the gullible -- " Miracles of

God " . Now i have nothing against God and I totally agree that the whole Cosmos,

or Brahmand in Sanskrit, shows some sign of being created by an intelligent

superpower. However, as i have not seen it or have any proper proof for it, I

will suspend my belief in Him and believe in my doctor.

When i need spiritual solace, then I should go to Swami Ramdev. His Yoga lessons

are definately helpful and i have met plenty of people who have controlled their

blood prssure and diabetes using his techniques. But he has no " cure " for them.

" Control " is different from " cure " . One is not the other and neither can

substitute for the other.

All Naturopaths, Yoga Teachers, Spiritual Masters, help you control your sensual

faculties and diseases but cannot cure you of them. You can learn to control

your sexuality but not " cure " it, for the simple reason that sex is as much a

bodily need as your appetite and your thirst.

That is what Dr.Gilada is saying and he is right. Much though we live in an age

where HIV/AIDS has become a self-driven industry, the fact is that it exists as

a epidemic that is killing millions. Every one of these millions could have been

saved through " control " in that they could have been educated on life-style

changes but they could not have been " cured " for the virus remains in their

blood. Even the best ART just " controls " the virus from replicating but does not

irradicate it or " cure " it. Anybody who claims so is trying to reverse the

Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Now i agree that miracles do occur but you cannot control an epidemic killing

millions by following Ramdev or Benny Hill or whoever teaches you Yoga or

chanting God's name or doing a hundred more namazes. God himself will laugh at

this " cure " for he would not have made the Universe to obey the Second Law od

Thermodynamics. A law-maker rarely breaks laws he makes for it makes no sense to

make them in the first place.

That is what Dr.Ishwar Gilada was saying in short and that's why he suing that

Swami Ramdev. If you think Ramdev can " cure " you then for God's sake go and get

infected by HIV and keep on doing his yoga exercises yourself and " prove " it,

not just protesting Dr.Gilada's sensible suggestions.

And frankly, i think it's a shame that rational sensible people should be

challenging people like Dr.Gilada. I may differ with him on many points, but I

know he means well because he is doing something about HIV/AIDS; he's saving

thousands of lives instead of doing just yoga exercises.

Warm regards and a Happy New Year to you all.

Ashok Row Kavi

Humsafar Trust

Mumbai metro

e-mail: arowkavi@...

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

I have senn a few messages on this topic and shocked to notice that the actual

point of discussion is being distracted and a controversial arguements taking

place around Baba Ramdev.

Since I am not a student of mediacl science and that's why won't say anything

about any principles of it, but what I want to say here is that we can not

reject the scinece of yoga, yes, it is a " science " and not a whim of any baba

whether he is Ramdev or someone else as it is being made an issue of jest or

joke.

Yoga (in its complete sense along with physical exercises, meditation and

sitology) has been a great science for protecting the life from many diseases

and making it healthy and strong in India for thousands of years or more than

that too, but unfortunately it has been gradually and deliberately suppressed

because of many political and other reasons including the lucrative profit of

crores of ruppees or dollars from the trade of medicines.

I would like to share with you 2 points here:

(i) Can we deny the existence of the sun if a blind man does say that he has

never seen the sun? No, because the sun is there, only the blind men can't see

it. The same way we can not ignore the advantages of the Yoga therapy untill we

have tested it.

(ii) I can say by my personal experience, and I strongly believe that there are

thousands (not only a few) of such cases those who can witness the advantages of

yoga therapy in many diseaes that couldn't be cured under any kind of treatments

of so called medical science.

For example, I could get cured, not " controlled " , my acute problem of arthritis

through yoga which couldn't be cured by taking medicines under all the 3

therapies including homoeopathy.

I believe that yoga can definitely strengthen our physical, mental and spiritual

power. you may feel yourself fit whole the day after doing half an hour yoga

regularly and avoid many kinds of sicknesses. Of course you need to do it

regularly like a patient of any killer disease need to take medicines e.g. for

T.B. etc.

It doesn't mean that I am advocating the " cure " of HIV through yoga and don't

believe that baba Ramdev has made such cliams too, but I don't understand as

what wrong is there if yoga helps in controlling it and strengthening a

patient's physical, mental or spiritual power in any way? After all what we are

doing through ART, just controlling, not curing?

I hope yoga would not create any harmful reactions or negative effects (as ART

some times do in many patients) if it doesn't help at all in strengthening the

immune system of a person with HIV.

With due respect for my friends Dr. Gilada and Ashok I would like to say,

without any reference to any baba, that yoga is still an excellent style of

Indian origin for keeping the life absolutely healthy and free from many

diseases and it has to be for ever, so it must not be made a matter of jest for

the sake of HIV/AIDS treatment.

wishing you a very happy, healthy and peaceful new year,

With regards,

Bhawani

Bhawani Shanker Kusum

Secretary & Executive Director

Gram Bharati Samiti (GBS)

NGO Delegate (Alternate) for Asia Pacific, UNAIDS PCB

Amber Bhawan, Amber 302 028 Jaipur India

Tel.: 91-141-2531242 Fax.: 91-141-2530719

E-mail: gbsbsk@... www.gbsjp.org

[Guest guest]

Dear Forum

Bhawani Shanker Kusum has made certain valid points

about yoga.

I do not think either Dr. Gilada or Ashok Rao Kawi

were criticizing yoga in any manner whatsoever. Yoga

may be a cure of a host of medical problems including

arthritis. Let us for a moment imagine, it may even be

a cure for HIV. But let science conduct a study on it

before the Ramdevs make irresponsible claims.

Let us not forget that science attempts explaining

what is happening and may not be right everytime. But

the crux of the issue is not the advantages og yoga,

but the claim that it can cure HIV. Unless a

scientific study is done on it we cannot make tall

claims.

Please remember that many " medicines " and exercises

that improve immunity and " well-being " cannot be

considered as cure. If we wish to be in the cozy

comfort of security, then we can continue to fool

ourselves.

regards

Sreeram

Sreeram Varadadesikan

E-MAIL: <setlurs01@...>