Re: Psychotic episode and a few other things

[Guest guest]

So sorry you're going through this. It's been some years since I've dealt with

my Dad in this state, but for us, someone else coming in (like me!), a

distraction of some kind, often brought him out of it. Dad was the same with his

partner, he often called her 'Dave' and was sure that the real Jane was out to

get him somehow.

On the valium front, I'd respond to that with NO WAY. Maybe it's not like this

with all LBD sufferers, but any benzone, Dad would have the opposite effect.

Valium made him flip right out.

Unfortunately I have no further advice to offer, except a listening ear. Hang in

there.

>

>

> Today, when I arrived at my parents' house, my father was sitting alone on the

sofa, in his pyjamas and his whole body was shaking. I asked what was wrong and

he said, in a really angry tone " She's a liar! " . I knew straight away he was

referring to Mum because I'd seen this a couple of times previously, though not

for a while.

>

> Dad found it difficult to articulate what it was he was upset about so I found

Mum in the bedroom and asked her. She wasn't quite sure either but said that he

was refusing to get dressed and have breakfast and that he'd called her many

things for the past couple of hours.

>

> I tried for around 30 minutes to find out why Dad was angry. He kept referring

to Mum having slammed the hall door but Mum said she just closed it to keep the

warmth in the main part of the house but she hadn't slammed anything. At one

point, Dad said " She's been listening to them " . He was convinced Mum was working

against him so I reminded him that Mum is there for him every day and that we

are doing everything we can to keep him at home, rather than in a nursing home.

>

> After another hour or so, I could tell he was coming out of his distressed

state - he accepted a glass of water and a blanket and instead of seeming so

angry, he was yawning. This came shortly after I told Dad that I thought the

reason he felt so bad is because of his illness. He asked (still in an angry

tone) " Do you think so? " . I think, in some strange way, that somehow gave him a

reason for the confusion and anger he was feeling.

>

> I felt so helpless because when Dad is in this state, even I can't get him out

of it. Mum was crying and said she didn't know what else to do.

>

> I spoke to Dad's doctor (just his general practitioner) and he said in that

instance, Dad needs to be medicated. I told him Dad had a bad reaction to

Seroquel which is the only thing we had tried.

>

> What do we do in this situation, which I suspect will become a more frequent

occurrence? Should we try him on something that will make him sleepy (eg.

Valium), do we call an ambulance (not preferable since they would want to take

him to hospital which would only make things worse)? Do we just wait it out like

we did today until he calms down and gets through the episode? It was so

heartbreaking - he swung between fits of anger, fits of laughter, looking like

he was going to cry.

>

> If anyone has any experience or advice, I'd love to hear about it.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Tania....

>

> (daughter of Barry, 78 yrs, dx with PD 2010, then LBD in 2011, then PDD in

2012)

>

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry she is going through this. I know what she is dealing with

and it is not fun. I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers today.

From: LBDcaregivers [mailto:LBDcaregivers ]

On Behalf Of aussiebin

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 3:10 AM

To: LBDcaregivers

Subject: Psychotic episode and a few other things

Today, when I arrived at my parents' house, my father was sitting alone on

the sofa, in his pyjamas and his whole body was shaking. I asked what was

wrong and he said, in a really angry tone " She's a liar! " . I knew straight

away he was referring to Mum because I'd seen this a couple of times

previously, though not for a while.

Dad found it difficult to articulate what it was he was upset about so I

found Mum in the bedroom and asked her. She wasn't quite sure either but

said that he was refusing to get dressed and have breakfast and that he'd

called her many things for the past couple of hours.

I tried for around 30 minutes to find out why Dad was angry. He kept

referring to Mum having slammed the hall door but Mum said she just closed

it to keep the warmth in the main part of the house but she hadn't slammed

anything. At one point, Dad said " She's been listening to them " . He was

convinced Mum was working against him so I reminded him that Mum is there

for him every day and that we are doing everything we can to keep him at

home, rather than in a nursing home.

After another hour or so, I could tell he was coming out of his distressed

state - he accepted a glass of water and a blanket and instead of seeming so

angry, he was yawning. This came shortly after I told Dad that I thought the

reason he felt so bad is because of his illness. He asked (still in an angry

tone) " Do you think so? " . I think, in some strange way, that somehow gave

him a reason for the confusion and anger he was feeling.

I felt so helpless because when Dad is in this state, even I can't get him

out of it. Mum was crying and said she didn't know what else to do.

I spoke to Dad's doctor (just his general practitioner) and he said in that

instance, Dad needs to be medicated. I told him Dad had a bad reaction to

Seroquel which is the only thing we had tried.

What do we do in this situation, which I suspect will become a more frequent

occurrence? Should we try him on something that will make him sleepy (eg.

Valium), do we call an ambulance (not preferable since they would want to

take him to hospital which would only make things worse)? Do we just wait it

out like we did today until he calms down and gets through the episode? It

was so heartbreaking - he swung between fits of anger, fits of laughter,

looking like he was going to cry.

If anyone has any experience or advice, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks.

Tania....

(daughter of Barry, 78 yrs, dx with PD 2010, then LBD in 2011, then PDD in

2012)

[Guest guest]

Tania,

 

I gave Mom an anti-anxity drug, but I cut it into quarters or halves and it gave

it  2 or 4 times a day.  I also think your Mom is expecting him to do things

he isn't ready to do like get dressed and eat.  Sometimes giving him options

like " would you like to eat or get dressed first. "   He can hardly follow a

simple command it sounds like and it is hard to do the things she wants him to 

do.  Can she learn from others at a caregivers meeting that everyone is having

a hard time and she may be expecting to much.  It is so hard  since she lived

with him for so long.  I went to Alzheimer's meeting and learned a lot for

myself when I had a hard time understanding dementia.

 

Hope this helps.  There is also lot of Alzheimer's news letters on line, maybe

if your Mom doesn't go to a meeting, you can get her to read.  Otherwise she

and he will continue to struggle. 

 

Hugs,

 

Donna R

Psychotic episode and a few other things

 

Today, when I arrived at my parents' house, my father was sitting alone on the

sofa, in his pyjamas and his whole body was shaking. I asked what was wrong and

he said, in a really angry tone " She's a liar! " . I knew straight away he was

referring to Mum because I'd seen this a couple of times previously, though not

for a while.

Dad found it difficult to articulate what it was he was upset about so I found

Mum in the bedroom and asked her. She wasn't quite sure either but said that he

was refusing to get dressed and have breakfast and that he'd called her many

things for the past couple of hours.

I tried for around 30 minutes to find out why Dad was angry. He kept referring

to Mum having slammed the hall door but Mum said she just closed it to keep the

warmth in the main part of the house but she hadn't slammed anything. At one

point, Dad said " She's been listening to them " . He was convinced Mum was working

against him so I reminded him that Mum is there for him every day and that we

are doing everything we can to keep him at home, rather than in a nursing home.

After another hour or so, I could tell he was coming out of his distressed state

- he accepted a glass of water and a blanket and instead of seeming so angry, he

was yawning. This came shortly after I told Dad that I thought the reason he

felt so bad is because of his illness. He asked (still in an angry tone) " Do you

think so? " . I think, in some strange way, that somehow gave him a reason for the

confusion and anger he was feeling.

I felt so helpless because when Dad is in this state, even I can't get him out

of it. Mum was crying and said she didn't know what else to do.

I spoke to Dad's doctor (just his general practitioner) and he said in that

instance, Dad needs to be medicated. I told him Dad had a bad reaction to

Seroquel which is the only thing we had tried.

What do we do in this situation, which I suspect will become a more frequent

occurrence? Should we try him on something that will make him sleepy (eg.

Valium), do we call an ambulance (not preferable since they would want to take

him to hospital which would only make things worse)? Do we just wait it out like

we did today until he calms down and gets through the episode? It was so

heartbreaking - he swung between fits of anger, fits of laughter, looking like

he was going to cry.

If anyone has any experience or advice, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks.

Tania....

(daughter of Barry, 78 yrs, dx with PD 2010, then LBD in 2011, then PDD in 2012)

[Guest guest]

What worked for me during these episodes with my husband was redirecting his

thoughts to something else. Instead of asking why he was angry, which he

couldn't answer and which would prolong the episode, try turning his mind toward

another topic. The human reaction is to argue with them and try to point out

why they are wrong, but it doesn't work with dementia. For instance, when my

husband was insisting that he needed to go " home " or to visit his " mother " (long

dead), I would give him a reason why we couldn't go at the moment (weather, need

gas, etc.), told him we would go later, and then ask him if he wanted something

to eat in the meantime--anything to take his mind off what he was obsessing

about. If he still insisted he needed to go " home " , i would sometimes bundle him

in the car and take him for a drive and bring him back. He would enter the

house mumbling, " Yes, yes, this is it " and then be tired out and go to bed and

sleep for awhile. Seroquel never worked for him--it worked against him. In

fact, there wasn't one single med that I tried that worked.

Cassie

To: LBDcaregivers

From: splouff@...

Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 05:42:36 -0700

Subject: RE: Psychotic episode and a few other things

I am so sorry she is going through this. I know what she is dealing with

and it is not fun. I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers today.

From: LBDcaregivers [mailto:LBDcaregivers ]

On Behalf Of aussiebin

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 3:10 AM

To: LBDcaregivers

Subject: Psychotic episode and a few other things

Today, when I arrived at my parents' house, my father was sitting alone on

the sofa, in his pyjamas and his whole body was shaking. I asked what was

wrong and he said, in a really angry tone " She's a liar! " . I knew straight

away he was referring to Mum because I'd seen this a couple of times

previously, though not for a while.

Dad found it difficult to articulate what it was he was upset about so I

found Mum in the bedroom and asked her. She wasn't quite sure either but

said that he was refusing to get dressed and have breakfast and that he'd

called her many things for the past couple of hours.

I tried for around 30 minutes to find out why Dad was angry. He kept

referring to Mum having slammed the hall door but Mum said she just closed

it to keep the warmth in the main part of the house but she hadn't slammed

anything. At one point, Dad said " She's been listening to them " . He was

convinced Mum was working against him so I reminded him that Mum is there

for him every day and that we are doing everything we can to keep him at

home, rather than in a nursing home.

After another hour or so, I could tell he was coming out of his distressed

state - he accepted a glass of water and a blanket and instead of seeming so

angry, he was yawning. This came shortly after I told Dad that I thought the

reason he felt so bad is because of his illness. He asked (still in an angry

tone) " Do you think so? " . I think, in some strange way, that somehow gave

him a reason for the confusion and anger he was feeling.

I felt so helpless because when Dad is in this state, even I can't get him

out of it. Mum was crying and said she didn't know what else to do.

I spoke to Dad's doctor (just his general practitioner) and he said in that

instance, Dad needs to be medicated. I told him Dad had a bad reaction to

Seroquel which is the only thing we had tried.

What do we do in this situation, which I suspect will become a more frequent

occurrence? Should we try him on something that will make him sleepy (eg.

Valium), do we call an ambulance (not preferable since they would want to

take him to hospital which would only make things worse)? Do we just wait it

out like we did today until he calms down and gets through the episode? It

was so heartbreaking - he swung between fits of anger, fits of laughter,

looking like he was going to cry.

If anyone has any experience or advice, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks.

Tania....

(daughter of Barry, 78 yrs, dx with PD 2010, then LBD in 2011, then PDD in

2012)

[Guest guest]

A couple of thoughts...

I used to ask Mom a lot about what her illness was like for her. There is

this gentleman on the LBDA discussion forum who is in the early stages and

he would share his feelings and what he experienced with those on the

forum. I told Mom about him often and asked if what he was sharing was

what she was experiencing. She had lost her words by then, but not her

expressions. I got tearful nods that the information was indeed accurate.

It seemed to help her to know that, even if she couldn't say what was

wrong, I had some idea of what she was going through. Try talking with

your Dad very specifically about the disease - not the scientific knowledge

but about how it feels to him and what he experiences. It doesn't have to

be touchy-feely. Just something like, I read " ... " about the illness you

have. Is that what you are experiencing. While he can still talk, keep

him talking. The silence is deafening.

And, help your mom to understand that it OK to lie or let your dad believe

what he wants to. In the long run, he'll forget the whole thing. The

idea, I think, is to get him to relax. If a disagreement starts, everyone

gets tense and the LBD behavior escalates. Does your mom see any humor in

the situation? It really does help if she can laugh about even some of the

disagreeable stuff.

You could also try different meds. There are many out there and everyone

reacts differently to each. No, you don't want to overdrug him. Back in

the 60's, doctors thought my grandfather had Alzheimer's and drugged him

into oblivion with Haldol. Mom's doctor said it sounded more like LBD, but

of course it wasn't even recognized back then. With Grandpa a zombie, my

younger cousins have a very hard time remembering him before the dementia,

when he was a vital and brilliant man. They really lost out. Find the

right drug in the right amount, rather than enough drugs to sedate him.

Kate

> **

>

>

>

> Today, when I arrived at my parents' house, my father was sitting alone on

> the sofa, in his pyjamas and his whole body was shaking. I asked what was

> wrong and he said, in a really angry tone " She's a liar! " . I knew straight

> away he was referring to Mum because I'd seen this a couple of times

> previously, though not for a while.

>

> Dad found it difficult to articulate what it was he was upset about so I

> found Mum in the bedroom and asked her. She wasn't quite sure either but

> said that he was refusing to get dressed and have breakfast and that he'd

> called her many things for the past couple of hours.

>

> I tried for around 30 minutes to find out why Dad was angry. He kept

> referring to Mum having slammed the hall door but Mum said she just closed

> it to keep the warmth in the main part of the house but she hadn't slammed

> anything. At one point, Dad said " She's been listening to them " . He was

> convinced Mum was working against him so I reminded him that Mum is there

> for him every day and that we are doing everything we can to keep him at

> home, rather than in a nursing home.

>

> After another hour or so, I could tell he was coming out of his distressed

> state - he accepted a glass of water and a blanket and instead of seeming

> so angry, he was yawning. This came shortly after I told Dad that I thought

> the reason he felt so bad is because of his illness. He asked (still in an

> angry tone) " Do you think so? " . I think, in some strange way, that somehow

> gave him a reason for the confusion and anger he was feeling.

>

> I felt so helpless because when Dad is in this state, even I can't get him

> out of it. Mum was crying and said she didn't know what else to do.

>

> I spoke to Dad's doctor (just his general practitioner) and he said in

> that instance, Dad needs to be medicated. I told him Dad had a bad reaction

> to Seroquel which is the only thing we had tried.

>

> What do we do in this situation, which I suspect will become a more

> frequent occurrence? Should we try him on something that will make him

> sleepy (eg. Valium), do we call an ambulance (not preferable since they

> would want to take him to hospital which would only make things worse)? Do

> we just wait it out like we did today until he calms down and gets through

> the episode? It was so heartbreaking - he swung between fits of anger, fits

> of laughter, looking like he was going to cry.

>

> If anyone has any experience or advice, I'd love to hear about it.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Tania....

>

> (daughter of Barry, 78 yrs, dx with PD 2010, then LBD in 2011, then PDD in

> 2012)

>

>

>

--

Kate Knapp

UMN - OIT

“When you're finished changing, you're finished.” - Ben lin

[Guest guest]

Hello: Please check out the list of drugs that cause problems on the LBD

site. Take that with you to your dr appts. Try only one med at a time,

lowest dose possible, if a drug be needed. Document every dr appt. Even

ask the pharmacist to check for any drug inter actions. Just a thought for

anyone. Vivian

> A couple of thoughts...

>

> I used to ask Mom a lot about what her illness was like for her. There is

> this gentleman on the LBDA discussion forum who is in the early stages and

> he would share his feelings and what he experienced with those on the

> forum. I told Mom about him often and asked if what he was sharing was

> what she was experiencing. She had lost her words by then, but not her

> expressions. I got tearful nods that the information was indeed accurate.

> It seemed to help her to know that, even if she couldn't say what was

> wrong, I had some idea of what she was going through. Try talking with

> your Dad very specifically about the disease - not the scientific knowledge

> but about how it feels to him and what he experiences. It doesn't have to

> be touchy-feely. Just something like, I read " ... " about the illness you

> have. Is that what you are experiencing. While he can still talk, keep

> him talking. The silence is deafening.

>

> And, help your mom to understand that it OK to lie or let your dad believe

> what he wants to. In the long run, he'll forget the whole thing. The

> idea, I think, is to get him to relax. If a disagreement starts, everyone

> gets tense and the LBD behavior escalates. Does your mom see any humor in

> the situation? It really does help if she can laugh about even some of the

> disagreeable stuff.

>

> You could also try different meds. There are many out there and everyone

> reacts differently to each. No, you don't want to overdrug him. Back in

> the 60's, doctors thought my grandfather had Alzheimer's and drugged him

> into oblivion with Haldol. Mom's doctor said it sounded more like LBD, but

> of course it wasn't even recognized back then. With Grandpa a zombie, my

> younger cousins have a very hard time remembering him before the dementia,

> when he was a vital and brilliant man. They really lost out. Find the

> right drug in the right amount, rather than enough drugs to sedate him.

>

> Kate

>

>

>

> > **

> >

> >

> >

> > Today, when I arrived at my parents' house, my father was sitting alone

> on

> > the sofa, in his pyjamas and his whole body was shaking. I asked what was

> > wrong and he said, in a really angry tone " She's a liar! " . I knew

> straight

> > away he was referring to Mum because I'd seen this a couple of times

> > previously, though not for a while.

> >

> > Dad found it difficult to articulate what it was he was upset about so I

> > found Mum in the bedroom and asked her. She wasn't quite sure either but

> > said that he was refusing to get dressed and have breakfast and that he'd

> > called her many things for the past couple of hours.

> >

> > I tried for around 30 minutes to find out why Dad was angry. He kept

> > referring to Mum having slammed the hall door but Mum said she just

> closed

> > it to keep the warmth in the main part of the house but she hadn't

> slammed

> > anything. At one point, Dad said " She's been listening to them " . He was

> > convinced Mum was working against him so I reminded him that Mum is there

> > for him every day and that we are doing everything we can to keep him at

> > home, rather than in a nursing home.

> >

> > After another hour or so, I could tell he was coming out of his

> distressed

> > state - he accepted a glass of water and a blanket and instead of seeming

> > so angry, he was yawning. This came shortly after I told Dad that I

> thought

> > the reason he felt so bad is because of his illness. He asked (still in

> an

> > angry tone) " Do you think so? " . I think, in some strange way, that

> somehow

> > gave him a reason for the confusion and anger he was feeling.

> >

> > I felt so helpless because when Dad is in this state, even I can't get

> him

> > out of it. Mum was crying and said she didn't know what else to do.

> >

> > I spoke to Dad's doctor (just his general practitioner) and he said in

> > that instance, Dad needs to be medicated. I told him Dad had a bad

> reaction

> > to Seroquel which is the only thing we had tried.

> >

> > What do we do in this situation, which I suspect will become a more

> > frequent occurrence? Should we try him on something that will make him

> > sleepy (eg. Valium), do we call an ambulance (not preferable since they

> > would want to take him to hospital which would only make things worse)?

> Do

> > we just wait it out like we did today until he calms down and gets

> through

> > the episode? It was so heartbreaking - he swung between fits of anger,

> fits

> > of laughter, looking like he was going to cry.

> >

> > If anyone has any experience or advice, I'd love to hear about it.

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

> > Tania....

> >

> > (daughter of Barry, 78 yrs, dx with PD 2010, then LBD in 2011, then PDD

> in

> > 2012)

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Kate Knapp

> UMN - OIT

>

>

> “When you're finished changing, you're finished.” - Ben lin

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tania,

I have no advice other than from my experience and that is if your

dad ever thinks your mother is in a conspiracy against him, he may do something

harmful to her as my husband did to me. He thought I was a spy and that the dial

on our dryer was a gadet that I used to spy on him, so he pulled it off of the

dryer and ran to hide it. I, of course, peeked around a corner to see where he

might hide it, as I needed it and he saw me and of course then I became a spy

and he twisted my wrist so badly, I thought he was going to break it, but I

broke away somehow. I was bruised clear up my arm the next day. After that I got

" Life Alert " and told them I was going to use them in a way they had probably

never been used before, but basically for me when I am in trouble and they were

always there for me when I needed them. I never needed them to take me to

emergency, but they were there for me to call them when there was trouble and I

felt secure with that around.

As for your father, I have no advice unless you do send him to the doctor for

medication adjustments. I had to do that for my husband and thankfully, it

worked for him, but I know of others that don't want to send them to the doctor.

I have heard calming music, and other soothing things such as a massage could

help to calm him. I think there is a list of calming things suggested on the LBD

files.

________________________________

To: LBDcaregivers

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 3:19 AM

Subject: Re: Psychotic episode and a few other things

So sorry you're going through this. It's been some years since I've dealt with

my Dad in this state, but for us, someone else coming in (like me!), a

distraction of some kind, often brought him out of it. Dad was the same with his

partner, he often called her 'Dave' and was sure that the real Jane was out to

get him somehow.

On the valium front, I'd respond to that with NO WAY. Maybe it's not like this

with all LBD sufferers, but any benzone, Dad would have the opposite effect.

Valium made him flip right out.

Unfortunately I have no further advice to offer, except a listening ear. Hang in

there.

>

>

> Today, when I arrived at my parents' house, my father was sitting alone on the

sofa, in his pyjamas and his whole body was shaking. I asked what was wrong and

he said, in a really angry tone " She's a liar! " .  I knew straight away he was

referring to Mum because I'd seen this a couple of times previously, though not

for a while.

>

> Dad found it difficult to articulate what it was he was upset about so I found

Mum in the bedroom and asked her. She wasn't quite sure either but said that he

was refusing to get dressed and have breakfast and that he'd called her many

things for the past couple of hours.

>

> I tried for around 30 minutes to find out why Dad was angry. He kept referring

to Mum having slammed the hall door but Mum said she just closed it to keep the

warmth in the main part of the house but she hadn't slammed anything. At one

point, Dad said " She's been listening to them " . He was convinced Mum was working

against him so I reminded him that Mum is there for him every day and that we

are doing everything we can to keep him at home, rather than in a nursing home.

>

> After another hour or so, I could tell he was coming out of his distressed

state - he accepted a glass of water and a blanket and instead of seeming so

angry, he was yawning. This came shortly after I told Dad that I thought the

reason he felt so bad is because of his illness. He asked (still in an angry

tone) " Do you think so? " . I think, in some strange way, that somehow gave him a

reason for the confusion and anger he was feeling.

>

> I felt so helpless because when Dad is in this state, even I can't get him out

of it. Mum was crying and said she didn't know what else to do.

>

> I spoke to Dad's doctor (just his general practitioner) and he said in that

instance, Dad needs to be medicated. I told him Dad had a bad reaction to

Seroquel which is the only thing we had tried.

>

> What do we do in this situation, which I suspect will become a more frequent

occurrence? Should we try him on something that will make him sleepy (eg.

Valium), do we call an ambulance (not preferable since they would want to take

him to hospital which would only make things worse)? Do we just wait it out like

we did today until he calms down and gets through the episode? It was so

heartbreaking - he swung between fits of anger, fits of laughter, looking like

he was going to cry.

>

> If anyone has any experience or advice, I'd love to hear about it.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Tania....

>

> (daughter of Barry, 78 yrs, dx with PD 2010, then LBD in 2011, then PDD in

2012)

>

------------------------------------

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