Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hey Dave, Avocados have some vitamin k but certainly no match for the leafy greens like kale, spinach, etc. Avocado is considered to be low in Vitamin K (5 to 10 mcg in a one ounce serving or about 1/5 th of the avocado ) as opposed to kale which has over 1,000 mcg in one cup. I've had conversations with a few cardiologists who agree that persons should not totally avoid Vitamin K foods, but should just keep consistent with their daily intake of Vitamin K, and adjust the medicine to meet that. Jacqui Jacquelyn A. Pressly, RD, CLT The NATURAL dietitian Specializing in Wellness and Prevention, Personal Nutrition Coaching and Designer Lifestyle Plans to help you get on the health track Northeast Ohio & Western Pennsylvania Internet and telecounseling available for distance clients jpress50@... If you are what you eat, then dietitians are the doctors of the future coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<;http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<;http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Thanks, Jacqui. I wonder why the old Food Medication Interactions said “avoid avocadoes� I wonder if the new ones still do? Mine is 13th edition. Embarrassing! Dave From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Jacqui Pressly Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 1:29 PM To: rd-usa Subject: Re: coumadin Hey Dave, Avocados have some vitamin k but certainly no match for the leafy greens like kale, spinach, etc. Avocado is considered to be low in Vitamin K (5 to 10 mcg in a one ounce serving or about 1/5 th of the avocado ) as opposed to kale which has over 1,000 mcg in one cup. I've had conversations with a few cardiologists who agree that persons should not totally avoid Vitamin K foods, but should just keep consistent with their daily intake of Vitamin K, and adjust the medicine to meet that. Jacqui Jacquelyn A. Pressly, RD, CLT The NATURAL dietitian Specializing in Wellness and Prevention, Personal Nutrition Coaching and Designer Lifestyle Plans to help you get on the health track Northeast Ohio & Western Pennsylvania Internet and telecounseling available for distance clients jpress50@...<mailto:jpress50%40aol.com> If you are what you eat, then dietitians are the doctors of the future coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<;http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<;http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I had one patient who ate a green leafy vegetable everyday without fail so she was allowed since it was consistent. Agree with Jacqui. Other things to consider are dietary supplements like Vitamin E and fish oil supplements. They should be consistent too. Some MDs don't want their patients to take herbals since they are so poorly regulated and inconsistent, even from one bottle to another. > ** > > > Hey Dave, > Avocados have some vitamin k but certainly no match for the leafy greens > like kale, spinach, etc. Avocado is considered to be low in Vitamin K (5 to > 10 mcg in a one ounce serving or about 1/5 th of the avocado ) as opposed to > kale which has over 1,000 mcg in one cup. I've had conversations with a few > cardiologists who agree that persons should not totally avoid Vitamin K > foods, but should just keep consistent with their daily intake of Vitamin K, > and adjust the medicine to meet that. > > Jacqui > > Jacquelyn A. Pressly, RD, CLT > The NATURAL dietitian > Specializing in Wellness and Prevention, Personal Nutrition Coaching > and Designer Lifestyle Plans to help you get on the health track > Northeast Ohio & Western Pennsylvania > Internet and telecounseling available for distance clients > > jpress50@... > > If you are what you eat, then dietitians are the doctors of the future > > > coumadin > > Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food > Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not > have a newer FMI. > > W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT > Long Term Care Consulting > Montana State Hospital > Montana Developmental Center > Certified LEAP Therapist > Owner, InfoSites > www.elk-hunting-tips.net<;http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> > www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<; > http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 That was the old school way of thinking - anything that had Vitamin K was a no no, but it ended up causing other health problems because the veggies and all the benefits were lacking! A couple of the cardiologists that I work with said they'd hate to see their patients missing out on all " the good stuff " . I got a few free samples of The Coumadin Cookbook and have one extra one left. Would be glad to send it to you - it has some great information, good chart and recipes. Pretty helpful. It was written by a cardiologist, registered cardiac sonographer, and gardener - interesting trio. Jacquelyn A. Pressly, RD, CLT The NATURAL dietitian Specializing in Wellness and Prevention, Personal Nutrition Coaching and Designer Lifestyle Plans to help you get on the health track Northeast Ohio & Western Pennsylvania Internet and telecounseling available for distance clients jpress50@... If you are what you eat, then dietitians are the doctors of the future coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<;;http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<;;http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com\ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 That was the old school way of thinking - anything that had Vitamin K was a no no, but it ended up causing other health problems because the veggies and all the benefits were lacking! A couple of the cardiologists that I work with said they'd hate to see their patients missing out on all " the good stuff " . I got a few free samples of The Coumadin Cookbook and have one extra one left. Would be glad to send it to you - it has some great information, good chart and recipes. Pretty helpful. It was written by a cardiologist, registered cardiac sonographer, and gardener - interesting trio. Jacquelyn A. Pressly, RD, CLT The NATURAL dietitian Specializing in Wellness and Prevention, Personal Nutrition Coaching and Designer Lifestyle Plans to help you get on the health track Northeast Ohio & Western Pennsylvania Internet and telecounseling available for distance clients jpress50@... If you are what you eat, then dietitians are the doctors of the future coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<;;http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<;;http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com\ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Thanks, Jacqui. I probably wouldn’t use the cookbook, though. Dave From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Jacqui Pressly Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:22 PM To: rd-usa Subject: Re: Coumadin That was the old school way of thinking - anything that had Vitamin K was a no no, but it ended up causing other health problems because the veggies and all the benefits were lacking! A couple of the cardiologists that I work with said they'd hate to see their patients missing out on all " the good stuff " . I got a few free samples of The Coumadin Cookbook and have one extra one left. Would be glad to send it to you - it has some great information, good chart and recipes. Pretty helpful. It was written by a cardiologist, registered cardiac sonographer, and gardener - interesting trio. Jacquelyn A. Pressly, RD, CLT The NATURAL dietitian Specializing in Wellness and Prevention, Personal Nutrition Coaching and Designer Lifestyle Plans to help you get on the health track Northeast Ohio & Western Pennsylvania Internet and telecounseling available for distance clients jpress50@...<mailto:jpress50%40aol.com> If you are what you eat, then dietitians are the doctors of the future coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<;;http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<;;http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com\ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Thanks, Jacqui. I probably wouldn’t use the cookbook, though. Dave From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Jacqui Pressly Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:22 PM To: rd-usa Subject: Re: Coumadin That was the old school way of thinking - anything that had Vitamin K was a no no, but it ended up causing other health problems because the veggies and all the benefits were lacking! A couple of the cardiologists that I work with said they'd hate to see their patients missing out on all " the good stuff " . I got a few free samples of The Coumadin Cookbook and have one extra one left. Would be glad to send it to you - it has some great information, good chart and recipes. Pretty helpful. It was written by a cardiologist, registered cardiac sonographer, and gardener - interesting trio. Jacquelyn A. Pressly, RD, CLT The NATURAL dietitian Specializing in Wellness and Prevention, Personal Nutrition Coaching and Designer Lifestyle Plans to help you get on the health track Northeast Ohio & Western Pennsylvania Internet and telecounseling available for distance clients jpress50@...<mailto:jpress50%40aol.com> If you are what you eat, then dietitians are the doctors of the future coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<;;http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<;;http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com\ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hi Dave, A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque Simple answer >no need to avoid People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid anything… particularly food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. Consistency But not of the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we need to get past the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a professional nutrition expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same ol same ol ) warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between 3.0 -3.5, there is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is moderation within overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ life. I love food… green leafy food, occasional grapefruit juice, occasional cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice anyway (eeeeooow)etc. With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for my own health outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs for nutrient data base. I keep my K food at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and cardio health But that is me . There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 milligrams/30g), roasted green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and tomato(9.7/123 g) salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch that the same day I eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says seek not justice from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug drug interactions than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It does not play well with others A bit more of an answer than “no need to Dave “ I still get a bit passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo need to educate clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle and health profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients with the individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of non-compliance . Stepping off my soapbox I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine wine/craft beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am importing the NM green stay safe, Dave Judy Holle From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM To: rd-usa Subject: coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hi Dave, A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque Simple answer >no need to avoid People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid anything… particularly food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. Consistency But not of the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we need to get past the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a professional nutrition expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same ol same ol ) warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between 3.0 -3.5, there is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is moderation within overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ life. I love food… green leafy food, occasional grapefruit juice, occasional cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice anyway (eeeeooow)etc. With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for my own health outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs for nutrient data base. I keep my K food at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and cardio health But that is me . There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 milligrams/30g), roasted green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and tomato(9.7/123 g) salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch that the same day I eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says seek not justice from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug drug interactions than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It does not play well with others A bit more of an answer than “no need to Dave “ I still get a bit passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo need to educate clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle and health profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients with the individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of non-compliance . Stepping off my soapbox I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine wine/craft beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am importing the NM green stay safe, Dave Judy Holle From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM To: rd-usa Subject: coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Hey, Jacqui. I see many pts on Coumadin every week. Would love to take a look at the cookbook you mentioned - if you still have it. Thanks. Audley, M.S., R.D., L.D. coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<;;;http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<;;;http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.co\ m> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Hey, Jacqui. I see many pts on Coumadin every week. Would love to take a look at the cookbook you mentioned - if you still have it. Thanks. Audley, M.S., R.D., L.D. coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<;;;http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<;;;http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.co\ m> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? My main interest in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep greens consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Montana State Hospital Long Term Care Consultant InfoSites: www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com> From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM To: rd-usa Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque Simple answer >no need to avoid People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid anything... particularly food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. Consistency But not of the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we need to get past the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a professional nutrition expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same ol same ol ) warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between 3.0 -3.5, there is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is moderation within overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ life. I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit juice, occasional cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice anyway (eeeeooow)etc. With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for my own health outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for nutrient data base. I keep my K food at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and cardio health But that is me . There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 milligrams/30g), roasted green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and tomato(9.7/123 g) salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch that the same day I eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says seek not justice from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug drug interactions than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It does not play well with others A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get a bit passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo need to educate clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle and health profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients with the individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of non-compliance . Stepping off my soapbox I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine wine/craft beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am importing the NM green stay safe, Dave Judy Holle From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? My main interest in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep greens consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Montana State Hospital Long Term Care Consultant InfoSites: www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com> From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM To: rd-usa Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque Simple answer >no need to avoid People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid anything... particularly food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. Consistency But not of the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we need to get past the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a professional nutrition expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same ol same ol ) warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between 3.0 -3.5, there is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is moderation within overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ life. I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit juice, occasional cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice anyway (eeeeooow)etc. With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for my own health outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for nutrient data base. I keep my K food at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and cardio health But that is me . There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 milligrams/30g), roasted green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and tomato(9.7/123 g) salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch that the same day I eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says seek not justice from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug drug interactions than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It does not play well with others A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get a bit passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo need to educate clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle and health profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients with the individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of non-compliance . Stepping off my soapbox I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine wine/craft beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am importing the NM green stay safe, Dave Judy Holle From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Hi Dave, Who could forget an icon ?? My question would be how old is old The “keep greens consistent” sounds a bit more evolved than the avoid all greens, alcohol , herbs ,current lifestyle etc But the avoid avocados is a puzzle I do not think “back then” we knew of the impact of vit E or C on INR But here too avocado is not that rich in either one .( E .56 in 28.35 and C 2.5-4.9 in 28.35) I would think you would have to eat waaaay mucho avocados before danger danger danger My Food Medication Interaction Data base book is somewhere in a box .Is there a reference stated ? Intriguing PT.INR .com stated that in the Lancet (1991) avocados brought “possible” antagonistic affects in 1 pt. oooooh They had a a quote from Coumadin Cookbook (2003)that avocados are relatively high in K especially if skins are eaten( UGH) and that guacamole has as much as 40 times the amount of K as avocado I do not have the Cookbook (I honestly do not use cookbooks) But this sounds like a question of volume to volume density. How sad the Cookbook did not include experts such as RD, RD/chef, food scientist ,chef etc Science based evidence(6.0 milligrams K in 28.35 grams and minimal E and C ) has yet to put the black hat on the yummy avocado To take a side trip, Medscape has a number of articles re the food med interaction in the new anticoagulants . Warfarin “replacements” for some But not those of us with artificial mitral valves. We need to become educated on this new class of meds Stay safe Judy From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:42 AM To: 'rd-usa ' Subject: RE: coumadin Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? My main interest in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep greens consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Montana State Hospital Long Term Care Consultant InfoSites: www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque Simple answer >no need to avoid People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid anything... particularly food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. Consistency But not of the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we need to get past the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a professional nutrition expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same ol same ol ) warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between 3.0 -3.5, there is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is moderation within overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ life. I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit juice, occasional cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice anyway (eeeeooow)etc. With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for my own health outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for nutrient data base. I keep my K food at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and cardio health But that is me . There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 milligrams/30g), roasted green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and tomato(9.7/123 g) salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch that the same day I eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says seek not justice from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug drug interactions than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It does not play well with others A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get a bit passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo need to educate clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle and health profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients with the individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of non-compliance . Stepping off my soapbox I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine wine/craft beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am importing the NM green stay safe, Dave Judy Holle From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Most guacamole is jut squished avocado with a little hot sauce and mayo in it. Can't possibly be " 40 times more K " than plain avocadoes! From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:48 AM To: rd-usa Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, Who could forget an icon ?? My question would be how old is old The " keep greens consistent " sounds a bit more evolved than the avoid all greens, alcohol , herbs ,current lifestyle etc But the avoid avocados is a puzzle I do not think " back then " we knew of the impact of vit E or C on INR But here too avocado is not that rich in either one .( E .56 in 28.35 and C 2.5-4.9 in 28.35) I would think you would have to eat waaaay mucho avocados before danger danger danger My Food Medication Interaction Data base book is somewhere in a box .Is there a reference stated ? Intriguing PT.INR .com stated that in the Lancet (1991) avocados brought " possible " antagonistic affects in 1 pt. oooooh They had a a quote from Coumadin Cookbook (2003)that avocados are relatively high in K especially if skins are eaten( UGH) and that guacamole has as much as 40 times the amount of K as avocado I do not have the Cookbook (I honestly do not use cookbooks) But this sounds like a question of volume to volume density. How sad the Cookbook did not include experts such as RD, RD/chef, food scientist ,chef etc Science based evidence(6.0 milligrams K in 28.35 grams and minimal E and C ) has yet to put the black hat on the yummy avocado To take a side trip, Medscape has a number of articles re the food med interaction in the new anticoagulants . Warfarin " replacements " for some But not those of us with artificial mitral valves. We need to become educated on this new class of meds Stay safe Judy From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:42 AM To: 'rd-usa <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>' Subject: RE: coumadin Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? My main interest in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep greens consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Montana State Hospital Long Term Care Consultant InfoSites: www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque Simple answer >no need to avoid People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid anything... particularly food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. Consistency But not of the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we need to get past the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a professional nutrition expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same ol same ol ) warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between 3.0 -3.5, there is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is moderation within overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ life. I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit juice, occasional cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice anyway (eeeeooow)etc. With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for my own health outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for nutrient data base. I keep my K food at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and cardio health But that is me . There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 milligrams/30g), roasted green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and tomato(9.7/123 g) salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch that the same day I eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says seek not justice from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug drug interactions than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It does not play well with others A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get a bit passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo need to educate clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle and health profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients with the individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of non-compliance . Stepping off my soapbox I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine wine/craft beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am importing the NM green stay safe, Dave Judy Holle From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Most guacamole is jut squished avocado with a little hot sauce and mayo in it. Can't possibly be " 40 times more K " than plain avocadoes! From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:48 AM To: rd-usa Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, Who could forget an icon ?? My question would be how old is old The " keep greens consistent " sounds a bit more evolved than the avoid all greens, alcohol , herbs ,current lifestyle etc But the avoid avocados is a puzzle I do not think " back then " we knew of the impact of vit E or C on INR But here too avocado is not that rich in either one .( E .56 in 28.35 and C 2.5-4.9 in 28.35) I would think you would have to eat waaaay mucho avocados before danger danger danger My Food Medication Interaction Data base book is somewhere in a box .Is there a reference stated ? Intriguing PT.INR .com stated that in the Lancet (1991) avocados brought " possible " antagonistic affects in 1 pt. oooooh They had a a quote from Coumadin Cookbook (2003)that avocados are relatively high in K especially if skins are eaten( UGH) and that guacamole has as much as 40 times the amount of K as avocado I do not have the Cookbook (I honestly do not use cookbooks) But this sounds like a question of volume to volume density. How sad the Cookbook did not include experts such as RD, RD/chef, food scientist ,chef etc Science based evidence(6.0 milligrams K in 28.35 grams and minimal E and C ) has yet to put the black hat on the yummy avocado To take a side trip, Medscape has a number of articles re the food med interaction in the new anticoagulants . Warfarin " replacements " for some But not those of us with artificial mitral valves. We need to become educated on this new class of meds Stay safe Judy From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:42 AM To: 'rd-usa <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>' Subject: RE: coumadin Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? My main interest in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep greens consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Montana State Hospital Long Term Care Consultant InfoSites: www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque Simple answer >no need to avoid People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid anything... particularly food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. Consistency But not of the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we need to get past the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a professional nutrition expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same ol same ol ) warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between 3.0 -3.5, there is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is moderation within overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ life. I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit juice, occasional cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice anyway (eeeeooow)etc. With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for my own health outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for nutrient data base. I keep my K food at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and cardio health But that is me . There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 milligrams/30g), roasted green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and tomato(9.7/123 g) salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch that the same day I eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says seek not justice from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug drug interactions than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It does not play well with others A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get a bit passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo need to educate clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle and health profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients with the individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of non-compliance . Stepping off my soapbox I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine wine/craft beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am importing the NM green stay safe, Dave Judy Holle From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 My thoughts exactly re guacamole!!!! 40 X no way …. even if they packed a home measuring cup solid instead of using metric weight. Not happening Everyone makes guacamole differently I use Hass avocados, garlic, onion, lime juice, green chile or the juice from the frozen roasted green or reconstituted dried red chile or charred jalapeno , cilantro , a tiny tiny dash of soy sauce ( not Mexican I know) and maybe chopped fresh tomatoes No mayo here though. I am sure some will chime in with their recipe But I cannot fathom what anyone would add that would turn this into a high K(40X) guacamole or what lead the Coumadin Cookbook to state that .I even went back to PT.INR.com to reread statement. How much mayo do you put in Dave? 1Tbs (14g) only has 5.9 mcg I cannot imagine anyone using so much mayo that you end up with a high K guacamole colored green mayo Ball parking it. If 28 g ( 1 oz) of avocado has 6.0 and 28g(2Tbs) mayo has 11.8, we are not looking at an end product of 40X Even if you wander around the mayo types I do not see it Commercial products always a mystery But cannot see that in a cookbook Jacqui You have the cookbook. What’s the word from the printed page? Is there a recipe? Again here too, it is the RD that has the applied knowledge to ask how do you prepare your food and then calculate and tailor . Soap box off Judy From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:22 AM To: 'rd-usa ' Subject: RE: coumadin Most guacamole is jut squished avocado with a little hot sauce and mayo in it. Can't possibly be " 40 times more K " than plain avocadoes! From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:48 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, Who could forget an icon ?? My question would be how old is old The " keep greens consistent " sounds a bit more evolved than the avoid all greens, alcohol , herbs ,current lifestyle etc But the avoid avocados is a puzzle I do not think " back then " we knew of the impact of vit E or C on INR But here too avocado is not that rich in either one .( E .56 in 28.35 and C 2.5-4.9 in 28.35) I would think you would have to eat waaaay mucho avocados before danger danger danger My Food Medication Interaction Data base book is somewhere in a box .Is there a reference stated ? Intriguing PT.INR .com stated that in the Lancet (1991) avocados brought " possible " antagonistic affects in 1 pt. oooooh They had a a quote from Coumadin Cookbook (2003)that avocados are relatively high in K especially if skins are eaten( UGH) and that guacamole has as much as 40 times the amount of K as avocado I do not have the Cookbook (I honestly do not use cookbooks) But this sounds like a question of volume to volume density. How sad the Cookbook did not include experts such as RD, RD/chef, food scientist ,chef etc Science based evidence(6.0 milligrams K in 28.35 grams and minimal E and C ) has yet to put the black hat on the yummy avocado To take a side trip, Medscape has a number of articles re the food med interaction in the new anticoagulants . Warfarin " replacements " for some But not those of us with artificial mitral valves. We need to become educated on this new class of meds Stay safe Judy From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:42 AM To: 'rd-usa <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>' Subject: RE: coumadin Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? My main interest in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep greens consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Montana State Hospital Long Term Care Consultant InfoSites: www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque Simple answer >no need to avoid People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid anything... particularly food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. Consistency But not of the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we need to get past the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a professional nutrition expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same ol same ol ) warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between 3.0 -3.5, there is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is moderation within overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ life. I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit juice, occasional cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice anyway (eeeeooow)etc. With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for my own health outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for nutrient data base. I keep my K food at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and cardio health But that is me . There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 milligrams/30g), roasted green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and tomato(9.7/123 g) salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch that the same day I eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says seek not justice from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug drug interactions than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It does not play well with others A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get a bit passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo need to educate clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle and health profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients with the individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of non-compliance . Stepping off my soapbox I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine wine/craft beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am importing the NM green stay safe, Dave Judy Holle From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Not the guacamole I make, no way! There’s lots of garlic, crushed, a little onion, finely chopped, and a good generous amount of cilantro in addition to avocados. Maybe the cilantro? But I’m too lazy to go look it up. Digna From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:22 AM To: 'rd-usa ' Subject: RE: coumadin Most guacamole is jut squished avocado with a little hot sauce and mayo in it. Can't possibly be " 40 times more K " than plain avocadoes! From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:48 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, Who could forget an icon ?? My question would be how old is old The " keep greens consistent " sounds a bit more evolved than the avoid all greens, alcohol , herbs ,current lifestyle etc But the avoid avocados is a puzzle I do not think " back then " we knew of the impact of vit E or C on INR But here too avocado is not that rich in either one .( E .56 in 28.35 and C 2.5-4.9 in 28.35) I would think you would have to eat waaaay mucho avocados before danger danger danger My Food Medication Interaction Data base book is somewhere in a box .Is there a reference stated ? Intriguing PT.INR .com stated that in the Lancet (1991) avocados brought " possible " antagonistic affects in 1 pt. oooooh They had a a quote from Coumadin Cookbook (2003)that avocados are relatively high in K especially if skins are eaten( UGH) and that guacamole has as much as 40 times the amount of K as avocado I do not have the Cookbook (I honestly do not use cookbooks) But this sounds like a question of volume to volume density. How sad the Cookbook did not include experts such as RD, RD/chef, food scientist ,chef etc Science based evidence(6.0 milligrams K in 28.35 grams and minimal E and C ) has yet to put the black hat on the yummy avocado To take a side trip, Medscape has a number of articles re the food med interaction in the new anticoagulants . Warfarin " replacements " for some But not those of us with artificial mitral valves. We need to become educated on this new class of meds Stay safe Judy From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:42 AM To: 'rd-usa <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>' Subject: RE: coumadin Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? My main interest in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep greens consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Montana State Hospital Long Term Care Consultant InfoSites: www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque Simple answer >no need to avoid People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid anything... particularly food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. Consistency But not of the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we need to get past the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a professional nutrition expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same ol same ol ) warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between 3.0 -3.5, there is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is moderation within overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ life. I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit juice, occasional cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice anyway (eeeeooow)etc. With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for my own health outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for nutrient data base. I keep my K food at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and cardio health But that is me . There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 milligrams/30g), roasted green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and tomato(9.7/123 g) salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch that the same day I eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says seek not justice from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug drug interactions than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It does not play well with others A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get a bit passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo need to educate clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle and health profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients with the individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of non-compliance . Stepping off my soapbox I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine wine/craft beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am importing the NM green stay safe, Dave Judy Holle From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Oh, forgot the tomatoes. From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Digna Cassens Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:57 PM To: rd-usa Subject: RE: coumadin Not the guacamole I make, no way! There’s lots of garlic, crushed, a little onion, finely chopped, and a good generous amount of cilantro in addition to avocados. Maybe the cilantro? But I’m too lazy to go look it up. Digna From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:22 AM To: 'rd-usa <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ' Subject: RE: coumadin Most guacamole is jut squished avocado with a little hot sauce and mayo in it. Can't possibly be " 40 times more K " than plain avocadoes! From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:48 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, Who could forget an icon ?? My question would be how old is old The " keep greens consistent " sounds a bit more evolved than the avoid all greens, alcohol , herbs ,current lifestyle etc But the avoid avocados is a puzzle I do not think " back then " we knew of the impact of vit E or C on INR But here too avocado is not that rich in either one .( E .56 in 28.35 and C 2.5-4.9 in 28.35) I would think you would have to eat waaaay mucho avocados before danger danger danger My Food Medication Interaction Data base book is somewhere in a box .Is there a reference stated ? Intriguing PT.INR .com stated that in the Lancet (1991) avocados brought " possible " antagonistic affects in 1 pt. oooooh They had a a quote from Coumadin Cookbook (2003)that avocados are relatively high in K especially if skins are eaten( UGH) and that guacamole has as much as 40 times the amount of K as avocado I do not have the Cookbook (I honestly do not use cookbooks) But this sounds like a question of volume to volume density. How sad the Cookbook did not include experts such as RD, RD/chef, food scientist ,chef etc Science based evidence(6.0 milligrams K in 28.35 grams and minimal E and C ) has yet to put the black hat on the yummy avocado To take a side trip, Medscape has a number of articles re the food med interaction in the new anticoagulants . Warfarin " replacements " for some But not those of us with artificial mitral valves. We need to become educated on this new class of meds Stay safe Judy From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:42 AM To: 'rd-usa <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>' Subject: RE: coumadin Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? My main interest in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep greens consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Montana State Hospital Long Term Care Consultant InfoSites: www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Judith Holle Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: coumadin Hi Dave, A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque Simple answer >no need to avoid People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid anything... particularly food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. Consistency But not of the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we need to get past the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a professional nutrition expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same ol same ol ) warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between 3.0 -3.5, there is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is moderation within overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ life. I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit juice, occasional cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice anyway (eeeeooow)etc. With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for my own health outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for nutrient data base. I keep my K food at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and cardio health But that is me . There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 milligrams/30g), roasted green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and tomato(9.7/123 g) salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch that the same day I eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says seek not justice from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug drug interactions than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It does not play well with others A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get a bit passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo need to educate clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle and health profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients with the individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of non-compliance . Stepping off my soapbox I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine wine/craft beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am importing the NM green stay safe, Dave Judy Holle From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Rowell, Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: coumadin Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT Long Term Care Consulting Montana State Hospital Montana Developmental Center Certified LEAP Therapist Owner, InfoSites www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c om> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 How much cilantro?? Why ruin it with cilantro anyway? susan > > Subject: RE: coumadin > To: rd-usa > Date: Thursday, September 1, 2011, 10:53 PM > My thoughts exactly re > guacamole!!!! 40 X no way …. even if they packed a > home measuring cup solid instead of > using   metric weight. Not happening > Everyone makes guacamole differently I use Hass avocados, > garlic, onion, > lime juice, green chile or the juice from the frozen > roasted green or > reconstituted dried red chile or charred > jalapeno , cilantro , a tiny > tiny dash of soy sauce ( not Mexican I know) and > maybe chopped fresh > tomatoes No mayo here though. I am sure some > will chime in with their > recipe But I cannot fathom what anyone would > add that would turn this into > a high K(40X) guacamole or what lead the Coumadin Cookbook > to state that .I > even went back to PT.INR.com to reread > statement. > > > > How much mayo do you put in Dave? 1Tbs (14g) only has 5.9 > mcg I cannot > imagine anyone using so much mayo that you end up with a > high K guacamole > colored green mayo Ball parking it. If 28 g ( 1 > oz) of avocado has 6.0 and > 28g(2Tbs) mayo has 11.8, we are not looking at an end > product of 40X Even if > you wander around the mayo types I do not see it > Commercial products > always a mystery But cannot see that in a cookbook > > > > Jacqui You have the cookbook. What’s the word from > the printed page? Is > there a recipe? > > > > Again here too, it is the RD that has the applied > knowledge to ask how do > you prepare your food and then calculate and tailor . > > Soap box off > > > > Judy > > > > > > > > From: rd-usa > [mailto:rd-usa ] > On Behalf Of > Rowell, > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:22 AM > To: 'rd-usa ' > Subject: RE: coumadin > > > >  > > Most guacamole is jut squished avocado with a little hot > sauce and mayo in > it. Can't possibly be " 40 times more K " than plain > avocadoes! > > From: rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of Judith Holle > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:48 AM > To: rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: coumadin > > Hi Dave, > > Who could forget an icon ?? > > My question would be how old is old The " keep greens > consistent " sounds a > bit more evolved than the avoid all greens, alcohol , herbs > ,current > lifestyle etc But the avoid avocados is a puzzle I do not > think " back then " > we knew of the impact of vit E or C on INR But here too > avocado is not that > rich in either one .( E .56 in 28.35 and C 2.5-4.9 in > 28.35) I would think > you would have to eat waaaay mucho avocados before danger > danger danger My > Food Medication Interaction Data base book is somewhere in > a box .Is there > a reference stated ? Intriguing > > PT.INR .com stated that in the Lancet (1991) avocados > brought " possible " > antagonistic affects in 1 pt. oooooh They had a a quote > from Coumadin > Cookbook (2003)that avocados are relatively high in K > especially if skins > are eaten( UGH) and that guacamole has as much as 40 times > the amount of K > as avocado I do not have the Cookbook (I honestly do not > use cookbooks) But > this sounds like a question of volume to volume density. > How sad the > Cookbook did not include experts such as RD, RD/chef, food > scientist ,chef > etc > > Science based evidence(6.0 milligrams K in 28.35 grams and > minimal E and C ) > has yet to put the black hat on the yummy avocado > > To take a side trip, Medscape has a number of articles re > the food med > interaction in the new anticoagulants . Warfarin > " replacements " for some But > not those of us with artificial mitral valves. We need to > become educated > on this new class of meds > > Stay safe > > Judy > > From: rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > Rowell, > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:42 AM > To: 'rd-usa > <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>' > Subject: RE: coumadin > > Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? > My main interest > in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep > greens > consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. > > W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT > Montana State Hospital > Long Term Care Consultant > InfoSites: > www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> > www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c > om> > > From: rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > Of Judith Holle > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM > To: rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: coumadin > > Hi Dave, > > A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque > > Simple answer >no need to avoid > > People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid > anything... > particularly > food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. > Consistency But not of > the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we > need to get past > the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a > professional nutrition > expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same > ol same ol ) > warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between > 3.0 -3.5, there > is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is > moderation within > overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ > life. > > I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit > juice, occasional > cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice > anyway (eeeeooow)etc. > With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for > my own health > outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use > www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for > nutrient data base. I keep my K food > at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and > cardio health > But that is me . > > There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 > milligrams/30g), roasted > green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and > tomato(9.7/123 g) > salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch > that the same day I > eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. > > Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says > seek not justice > from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug > drug interactions > than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It > does not play well > with others > > A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get > a bit > passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo > need to educate > clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle > and health > profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients > with the > individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of > non-compliance . > > Stepping off my soapbox > > I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine > wine/craft > beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am > importing the NM > green > stay safe, Dave > > Judy Holle > > From: rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > Rowell, > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM > To: rd-usa > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: coumadin > > Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an > older Food > Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, > although I do not > have a newer FMI. > > W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT > Long Term Care Consulting > Montana State Hospital > Montana Developmental Center > Certified LEAP Therapist > Owner, InfoSites > www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> > www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c > om> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Because I LOVE cilantro, and it’s “the†Mexican flavor. I didn’t include the spices I use, such as the hot peppers of which I use a variety for different flavors as well as spiciness that reaches deep into your flavor and sensitivity spectrum. From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Schoneweis Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 6:55 PM To: rd-usa Subject: RE: coumadin How much cilantro?? Why ruin it with cilantro anyway? susan > From: Judith Holle <jholle@... <mailto:jholle%40swcp.com> > > Subject: RE: coumadin > To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 1, 2011, 10:53 PM > My thoughts exactly re > guacamole!!!! 40 X no way …. even if they packed a > home measuring cup solid instead of > using metric weight. Not happening > Everyone makes guacamole differently I use Hass avocados, > garlic, onion, > lime juice, green chile or the juice from the frozen > roasted green or > reconstituted dried red chile or charred > jalapeno , cilantro , a tiny > tiny dash of soy sauce ( not Mexican I know) and > maybe chopped fresh > tomatoes No mayo here though. I am sure some > will chime in with their > recipe But I cannot fathom what anyone would > add that would turn this into > a high K(40X) guacamole or what lead the Coumadin Cookbook > to state that .I > even went back to PT.INR.com to reread > statement. > > > > How much mayo do you put in Dave? 1Tbs (14g) only has 5.9 > mcg I cannot > imagine anyone using so much mayo that you end up with a > high K guacamole > colored green mayo Ball parking it. If 28 g ( 1 > oz) of avocado has 6.0 and > 28g(2Tbs) mayo has 11.8, we are not looking at an end > product of 40X Even if > you wander around the mayo types I do not see it > Commercial products > always a mystery But cannot see that in a cookbook > > > > Jacqui You have the cookbook. What’s the word from > the printed page? Is > there a recipe? > > > > Again here too, it is the RD that has the applied > knowledge to ask how do > you prepare your food and then calculate and tailor . > > Soap box off > > > > Judy > > > > > > > > From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of > Rowell, > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:22 AM > To: 'rd-usa <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ' > Subject: RE: coumadin > > > > > > Most guacamole is jut squished avocado with a little hot > sauce and mayo in > it. Can't possibly be " 40 times more K " than plain > avocadoes! > > From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of Judith Holle > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:48 AM > To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: coumadin > > Hi Dave, > > Who could forget an icon ?? > > My question would be how old is old The " keep greens > consistent " sounds a > bit more evolved than the avoid all greens, alcohol , herbs > ,current > lifestyle etc But the avoid avocados is a puzzle I do not > think " back then " > we knew of the impact of vit E or C on INR But here too > avocado is not that > rich in either one .( E .56 in 28.35 and C 2.5-4.9 in > 28.35) I would think > you would have to eat waaaay mucho avocados before danger > danger danger My > Food Medication Interaction Data base book is somewhere in > a box .Is there > a reference stated ? Intriguing > > PT.INR .com stated that in the Lancet (1991) avocados > brought " possible " > antagonistic affects in 1 pt. oooooh They had a a quote > from Coumadin > Cookbook (2003)that avocados are relatively high in K > especially if skins > are eaten( UGH) and that guacamole has as much as 40 times > the amount of K > as avocado I do not have the Cookbook (I honestly do not > use cookbooks) But > this sounds like a question of volume to volume density. > How sad the > Cookbook did not include experts such as RD, RD/chef, food > scientist ,chef > etc > > Science based evidence(6.0 milligrams K in 28.35 grams and > minimal E and C ) > has yet to put the black hat on the yummy avocado > > To take a side trip, Medscape has a number of articles re > the food med > interaction in the new anticoagulants . Warfarin > " replacements " for some But > not those of us with artificial mitral valves. We need to > become educated > on this new class of meds > > Stay safe > > Judy > > From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > Rowell, > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:42 AM > To: 'rd-usa <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>' > Subject: RE: coumadin > > Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? > My main interest > in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep > greens > consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. > > W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT > Montana State Hospital > Long Term Care Consultant > InfoSites: > www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> > www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c > om> > > From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > Of Judith Holle > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM > To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: coumadin > > Hi Dave, > > A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque > > Simple answer >no need to avoid > > People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid > anything... > particularly > food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. > Consistency But not of > the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we > need to get past > the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a > professional nutrition > expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same > ol same ol ) > warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between > 3.0 -3.5, there > is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is > moderation within > overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ > life. > > I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit > juice, occasional > cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice > anyway (eeeeooow)etc. > With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for > my own health > outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use > www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for > nutrient data base. I keep my K food > at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and > cardio health > But that is me . > > There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 > milligrams/30g), roasted > green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and > tomato(9.7/123 g) > salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch > that the same day I > eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. > > Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says > seek not justice > from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug > drug interactions > than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It > does not play well > with others > > A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get > a bit > passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo > need to educate > clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle > and health > profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients > with the > individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of > non-compliance . > > Stepping off my soapbox > > I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine > wine/craft > beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am > importing the NM > green > stay safe, Dave > > Judy Holle > > From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > Rowell, > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM > To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: coumadin > > Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an > older Food > Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, > although I do not > have a newer FMI. > > W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT > Long Term Care Consulting > Montana State Hospital > Montana Developmental Center > Certified LEAP Therapist > Owner, InfoSites > www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> > www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c > om> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Because I LOVE cilantro, and it’s “the†Mexican flavor. I didn’t include the spices I use, such as the hot peppers of which I use a variety for different flavors as well as spiciness that reaches deep into your flavor and sensitivity spectrum. From: rd-usa [mailto:rd-usa ] On Behalf Of Schoneweis Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 6:55 PM To: rd-usa Subject: RE: coumadin How much cilantro?? Why ruin it with cilantro anyway? susan > From: Judith Holle <jholle@... <mailto:jholle%40swcp.com> > > Subject: RE: coumadin > To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 1, 2011, 10:53 PM > My thoughts exactly re > guacamole!!!! 40 X no way …. even if they packed a > home measuring cup solid instead of > using metric weight. Not happening > Everyone makes guacamole differently I use Hass avocados, > garlic, onion, > lime juice, green chile or the juice from the frozen > roasted green or > reconstituted dried red chile or charred > jalapeno , cilantro , a tiny > tiny dash of soy sauce ( not Mexican I know) and > maybe chopped fresh > tomatoes No mayo here though. I am sure some > will chime in with their > recipe But I cannot fathom what anyone would > add that would turn this into > a high K(40X) guacamole or what lead the Coumadin Cookbook > to state that .I > even went back to PT.INR.com to reread > statement. > > > > How much mayo do you put in Dave? 1Tbs (14g) only has 5.9 > mcg I cannot > imagine anyone using so much mayo that you end up with a > high K guacamole > colored green mayo Ball parking it. If 28 g ( 1 > oz) of avocado has 6.0 and > 28g(2Tbs) mayo has 11.8, we are not looking at an end > product of 40X Even if > you wander around the mayo types I do not see it > Commercial products > always a mystery But cannot see that in a cookbook > > > > Jacqui You have the cookbook. What’s the word from > the printed page? Is > there a recipe? > > > > Again here too, it is the RD that has the applied > knowledge to ask how do > you prepare your food and then calculate and tailor . > > Soap box off > > > > Judy > > > > > > > > From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of > Rowell, > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:22 AM > To: 'rd-usa <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ' > Subject: RE: coumadin > > > > > > Most guacamole is jut squished avocado with a little hot > sauce and mayo in > it. Can't possibly be " 40 times more K " than plain > avocadoes! > > From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf > Of Judith Holle > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:48 AM > To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: coumadin > > Hi Dave, > > Who could forget an icon ?? > > My question would be how old is old The " keep greens > consistent " sounds a > bit more evolved than the avoid all greens, alcohol , herbs > ,current > lifestyle etc But the avoid avocados is a puzzle I do not > think " back then " > we knew of the impact of vit E or C on INR But here too > avocado is not that > rich in either one .( E .56 in 28.35 and C 2.5-4.9 in > 28.35) I would think > you would have to eat waaaay mucho avocados before danger > danger danger My > Food Medication Interaction Data base book is somewhere in > a box .Is there > a reference stated ? Intriguing > > PT.INR .com stated that in the Lancet (1991) avocados > brought " possible " > antagonistic affects in 1 pt. oooooh They had a a quote > from Coumadin > Cookbook (2003)that avocados are relatively high in K > especially if skins > are eaten( UGH) and that guacamole has as much as 40 times > the amount of K > as avocado I do not have the Cookbook (I honestly do not > use cookbooks) But > this sounds like a question of volume to volume density. > How sad the > Cookbook did not include experts such as RD, RD/chef, food > scientist ,chef > etc > > Science based evidence(6.0 milligrams K in 28.35 grams and > minimal E and C ) > has yet to put the black hat on the yummy avocado > > To take a side trip, Medscape has a number of articles re > the food med > interaction in the new anticoagulants . Warfarin > " replacements " for some But > not those of us with artificial mitral valves. We need to > become educated > on this new class of meds > > Stay safe > > Judy > > From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > Rowell, > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:42 AM > To: 'rd-usa <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:%27rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>' > Subject: RE: coumadin > > Thanks, Judith. Do you really remember me from my NM days? > My main interest > in this topic is why the old drug/nutrient book said " keep > greens > consistent " , but " avoid avocadoes " back then. > > W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT > Montana State Hospital > Long Term Care Consultant > InfoSites: > www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> > www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c > om> > > From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > Of Judith Holle > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:08 PM > To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: coumadin > > Hi Dave, > > A voice from the shadows of your past in Albuquerque > > Simple answer >no need to avoid > > People on coumadin do not really really have to avoid > anything... > particularly > food IF intake is consistent. Therein lies the key. > Consistency But not of > the food. Consistency in vit K intake As professionals we > need to get past > the old restricted do not eat/avoid mentality As a > professional nutrition > expert with an artificial valve since 1998 on a stable(same > ol same ol ) > warfarin sodium dose and an boringly stable INR of between > 3.0 -3.5, there > is nothing I cannot eat (if I want the morsel). Key is > moderation within > overall Vit K consistency and awareness of Coumadin ½ > life. > > I love food... green leafy food, occasional grapefruit > juice, occasional > cranberry cocktail(who drinks straight cranberry juice > anyway (eeeeooow)etc. > With science-based knowledge and taking responsibility for > my own health > outcome I can continue my love affair quite well. I use > www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs<http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs> for > nutrient data base. I keep my K food > at about 120mg +/-because I want some coverage for bone and > cardio health > But that is me . > > There is nothing more yummy that a spinach(144 > milligrams/30g), roasted > green chile(3.4/26g), avocado(6.0 milligrams/28.35g and > tomato(9.7/123 g) > salad with a fine glass of wineJJ I do not however munch > that the same day I > eat fresh roasted Brussels sprouts with garlic. > > Warfarin Sodium or Coumadin is a fickle med As my MD says > seek not justice > from Coumadin That being said there are a lot more drug > drug interactions > than food drug interactions that can unsettle the INR. It > does not play well > with others > > A bit more of an answer than " no need to Dave " I still get > a bit > passionate about what we as RDs should know and do. We sooo > need to educate > clients more. Each client will have a different lifestyle > and health > profile. As professionals we need to provide our clients > with the > individually tailored tools to avoid that high level of > non-compliance . > > Stepping off my soapbox > > I have now moved to Oregon where I have a selection of fine > wine/craft > beers and great food But I as you would suspect I am > importing the NM > green > stay safe, Dave > > Judy Holle > > From: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > Rowell, > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:57 AM > To: rd-usa <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:rd-usa%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: coumadin > > Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an > older Food > Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, > although I do not > have a newer FMI. > > W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT > Long Term Care Consulting > Montana State Hospital > Montana Developmental Center > Certified LEAP Therapist > Owner, InfoSites > www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> > www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.c > om> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 On the topic of coumadin...what do you all recommend when it comes to supplements that contain about 25% DV Vitamin K(if I remember correctly)? If a patient needs 3 per day at home do you just have them communicate the increase with their MD? If they are inpatient and you want to give them 3 a day do you worry about it or what do you all do? Thanks, Katrina Sobecky, RD, LD > > Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. > > W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT > Long Term Care Consulting > Montana State Hospital > Montana Developmental Center > Certified LEAP Therapist > Owner, InfoSites > www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> > www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com> > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 25% of DV is ~ 25mcg (DV is 100). This is negligible, even X3/day. This is a consistent amount, and even if some MVI are inconsistent in their content, the differences would not be significant enough to affect INR to above therapeutic levels.If anything, you might want MD to continue monitor INR to ensure it stays within therapeutic range. Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNA dietitian, not the food police. http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi " Life is not measured by the number of breath you take, but by the moments that take your breath away. " - Carlin " People don't forget the truth, they just become better in lying " (Revolutionary Road) To: rd-usa From: ksobecky@... Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 15:52:38 +0000 Subject: Re: coumadin On the topic of coumadin...what do you all recommend when it comes to supplements that contain about 25% DV Vitamin K(if I remember correctly)? If a patient needs 3 per day at home do you just have them communicate the increase with their MD? If they are inpatient and you want to give them 3 a day do you worry about it or what do you all do? Thanks, Katrina Sobecky, RD, LD > > Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. > > W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT > Long Term Care Consulting > Montana State Hospital > Montana Developmental Center > Certified LEAP Therapist > Owner, InfoSites > www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> > www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com> > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 25% of DV is ~ 25mcg (DV is 100). This is negligible, even X3/day. This is a consistent amount, and even if some MVI are inconsistent in their content, the differences would not be significant enough to affect INR to above therapeutic levels.If anything, you might want MD to continue monitor INR to ensure it stays within therapeutic range. Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDNA dietitian, not the food police. http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi " Life is not measured by the number of breath you take, but by the moments that take your breath away. " - Carlin " People don't forget the truth, they just become better in lying " (Revolutionary Road) To: rd-usa From: ksobecky@... Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 15:52:38 +0000 Subject: Re: coumadin On the topic of coumadin...what do you all recommend when it comes to supplements that contain about 25% DV Vitamin K(if I remember correctly)? If a patient needs 3 per day at home do you just have them communicate the increase with their MD? If they are inpatient and you want to give them 3 a day do you worry about it or what do you all do? Thanks, Katrina Sobecky, RD, LD > > Should people on Coumadin avoid avocado? I see it on an older Food Medication Interactions book, but not on newer resources, although I do not have a newer FMI. > > W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT > Long Term Care Consulting > Montana State Hospital > Montana Developmental Center > Certified LEAP Therapist > Owner, InfoSites > www.elk-hunting-tips.net<http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net> > www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com<http://www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com> > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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