Guest guest Posted November 20, 2001 Report Share Posted November 20, 2001 : If you don't have much luck treating the inner ear yourself, try a referral to Epley, M.D. at the Portland Otological Clinic, or Grimm, M.D. there in Portland as well. I've had several patients with similar complaints over the last few years who were treated fairly successfully by the bag of tricks employed by these two physicians. Of course, there may be some permanent damage to the brain stem / vestibular areas that will cause some continued symptoms indefinitely. However, I did have a female patient with significant residuals claim immediate relief after attending a free Benny Hinn crusade in Portland. So there's always hope. Lyndon McGill, DC Salem, Oregon Abrahamson wrote: Have pt. with longstanding TMJ which has been aggravated by an MVA. She has a weird auditory symptom complex in that when her dog comes near with a jingling collar, it causes a buzzing in her head, wavy vision, and some vertigo. No nystagmus, ears are clear, tuning fork duplicates the symptom (L ear only). I am treating the TMJ with ultrasound, massage, mobilization perpendicular to the axis of rotation, cervical spine adjustments, a dowel to clenche between the back teeth to stretch the joint, etc. I remember a procedure where you shake loose the crystals in the semicircular canals by assisting the patient with a rapid supported reclining motion off the end of the table. Can anyone describe this for me? I will send you a box of chocolates. -- Dr. Abrahamson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2001 Report Share Posted November 20, 2001 , That procedure is called the Epley Maneuver and was developed by Epley, MD, an ENT here in Portland. I will send you a copy of the article he wrote describing the procedure, I don't think it is indexed. Ravid Raphael, DC, DABCO Staff Clinician, WSCC Abrahamson wrote: > Have pt. with longstanding TMJ which has been aggravated by an MVA. > She has a weird auditory symptom complex in that when her dog comes near > with a jingling collar, it causes a buzzing in her head, wavy vision, and > some vertigo. > No nystagmus, ears are clear, tuning fork duplicates the symptom (L ear > only). > I am treating the TMJ with ultrasound, massage, mobilization perpendicular > to the axis of rotation, cervical spine adjustments, a dowel to clenche > between the back teeth to stretch the joint, etc. > > I remember a procedure where you shake loose the crystals in the > semicircular canals by assisting the patient with a rapid supported > reclining motion off the end of the table. Can anyone describe this for me? > I will send you a box of chocolates. > -- > Dr. Abrahamson > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 Please enlighten me. I do not understand how a noise (jingling of a dog's collar) can set off a set of symptoms that then lead to diagnosis of vertigo - off set crystals - or whatever. To my thinking the diagnosis is unclear and almost sounds like an inflammatory condition like tinnitus setting off other symptoms in sympathy. I suggested st. john's wort, bromelain and now possibly feverfew to try to minimize any inflammation. A referral to an ent is possible but I would be leary of fiddling around with the 'crystals' out of concern that I might cause a problem that didn't really exist prior. dizzyness is such a bummer. I'd like to know the reasoning to the diagnosis. vty, sharron fuchs dc Re: Need help with Dx. , That procedure is called the Epley Maneuver and was developed by Epley, MD, an ENT here in Portland. I will send you a copy of the article he wrote describing the procedure, I don't think it is indexed. Ravid Raphael, DC, DABCO Staff Clinician, WSCC Abrahamson wrote: > Have pt. with longstanding TMJ which has been aggravated by an MVA. > She has a weird auditory symptom complex in that when her dog comes near > with a jingling collar, it causes a buzzing in her head, wavy vision, and > some vertigo. > No nystagmus, ears are clear, tuning fork duplicates the symptom (L ear > only). > I am treating the TMJ with ultrasound, massage, mobilization perpendicular > to the axis of rotation, cervical spine adjustments, a dowel to clenche > between the back teeth to stretch the joint, etc. > > I remember a procedure where you shake loose the crystals in the > semicircular canals by assisting the patient with a rapid supported > reclining motion off the end of the table. Can anyone describe this for me? > I will send you a box of chocolates. > -- > Dr. Abrahamson > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 I will send the rest of the diagnostic workup. I am seeing a fair number of vertigo patients. It seems to be fairly common to elude dx. and is often best described as labrynthitis probably of a viral origin...at least that's what the MD's are calling it. BTW the maneuver for dislodging the inner ear crystals although powerfully effective, is pretty benign so I'm not terribly concerned that I may be barking up the wrong tree. -- Dr. Abrahamson > From: Sharron Fuchs <SharronF@...> > Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:00:31 -0800 > 'Ravid Raphael' <raphaelr@...>, Abrahamson > <drscott@...> > Cc: DC group < > > Subject: RE: Need help with Dx. > > Please enlighten me. I do not understand how a noise (jingling of a dog's > collar) can set off a set of symptoms that then lead to diagnosis of vertigo > - off set crystals - or whatever. To my thinking the diagnosis is unclear > and almost sounds like an inflammatory condition like tinnitus setting off > other symptoms in sympathy. I suggested st. john's wort, bromelain and now > possibly feverfew to try to minimize any inflammation. A referral to an ent > is possible but I would be leary of fiddling around with the 'crystals' out > of concern that I might cause a problem that didn't really exist prior. > dizzyness is such a bummer. I'd like to know the reasoning to the diagnosis. > > vty, sharron fuchs dc > > Re: Need help with Dx. > > > , > That procedure is called the Epley Maneuver and was developed by > Epley, > MD, an ENT here in Portland. I will send you a copy of the article he wrote > describing the procedure, I don't think it is indexed. > Ravid Raphael, DC, DABCO > Staff Clinician, WSCC > > Abrahamson wrote: > >> Have pt. with longstanding TMJ which has been aggravated by an MVA. >> She has a weird auditory symptom complex in that when her dog comes near >> with a jingling collar, it causes a buzzing in her head, wavy vision, and >> some vertigo. >> No nystagmus, ears are clear, tuning fork duplicates the symptom (L ear >> only). >> I am treating the TMJ with ultrasound, massage, mobilization perpendicular >> to the axis of rotation, cervical spine adjustments, a dowel to clenche >> between the back teeth to stretch the joint, etc. >> >> I remember a procedure where you shake loose the crystals in the >> semicircular canals by assisting the patient with a rapid supported >> reclining motion off the end of the table. Can anyone describe this for > me? >> I will send you a box of chocolates. >> -- >> Dr. Abrahamson >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 hi, so if it is viral/ inflammatory why not try the anti-inflammatory stuff first ? i was having trouble with the biomechanics of it all - which is what the maneuver is for - a bio-correction of things floating around where they are not supposed to be. i hate being dizzy - and now, after having kids, i cannot enjoy swinging on a swing or going round on a merry-go-round. perhaps my crystals are off ? -s- Re: Need help with Dx. > > > , > That procedure is called the Epley Maneuver and was developed by > Epley, > MD, an ENT here in Portland. I will send you a copy of the article he wrote > describing the procedure, I don't think it is indexed. > Ravid Raphael, DC, DABCO > Staff Clinician, WSCC > > Abrahamson wrote: > >> Have pt. with longstanding TMJ which has been aggravated by an MVA. >> She has a weird auditory symptom complex in that when her dog comes near >> with a jingling collar, it causes a buzzing in her head, wavy vision, and >> some vertigo. >> No nystagmus, ears are clear, tuning fork duplicates the symptom (L ear >> only). >> I am treating the TMJ with ultrasound, massage, mobilization perpendicular >> to the axis of rotation, cervical spine adjustments, a dowel to clenche >> between the back teeth to stretch the joint, etc. >> >> I remember a procedure where you shake loose the crystals in the >> semicircular canals by assisting the patient with a rapid supported >> reclining motion off the end of the table. Can anyone describe this for > me? >> I will send you a box of chocolates. >> -- >> Dr. Abrahamson >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 Sharron: I had a post-MVA patient who experienced vertigo whenever she looked at certain patterns of colors, such as a bright plaid skirt or bright patterns in the carpet. Lyndon McGill, DC Salem, Oregon Sharron Fuchs wrote: Please enlighten me. I do not understand how a noise (jingling of a dog's collar) can set off a set of symptoms that then lead to diagnosis of vertigo - off set crystals - or whatever. To my thinking the diagnosis is unclear and almost sounds like an inflammatory condition like tinnitus setting off other symptoms in sympathy. I suggested st. john's wort, bromelain and now possibly feverfew to try to minimize any inflammation. A referral to an ent is possible but I would be leary of fiddling around with the 'crystals' out of concern that I might cause a problem that didn't really exist prior. dizzyness is such a bummer. I'd like to know the reasoning to the diagnosis. vty, sharron fuchs dc Re: Need help with Dx. , That procedure is called the Epley Maneuver and was developed by Epley, MD, an ENT here in Portland. I will send you a copy of the article he wrote describing the procedure, I don't think it is indexed. Ravid Raphael, DC, DABCO Staff Clinician, WSCC Abrahamson wrote: > Have pt. with longstanding TMJ which has been aggravated by an MVA. > She has a weird auditory symptom complex in that when her dog comes near > with a jingling collar, it causes a buzzing in her head, wavy vision, and > some vertigo. > No nystagmus, ears are clear, tuning fork duplicates the symptom (L ear > only). > I am treating the TMJ with ultrasound, massage, mobilization perpendicular > to the axis of rotation, cervical spine adjustments, a dowel to clenche > between the back teeth to stretch the joint, etc. > > I remember a procedure where you shake loose the crystals in the > semicircular canals by assisting the patient with a rapid supported > reclining motion off the end of the table. Can anyone describe this for me? > I will send you a box of chocolates. > -- > Dr. Abrahamson > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 Dr. Shirley Mclaine has a great book out, ³Righting The Wrong Crystals². Something about spinning theories, weaving truth and fiction, going out on a limbic system, and so on. It is clearly above my intellect but may be worth a look. This book and her other best seller " Say Goodbye to Capitalism " On sale at Borders for $49.95. -- Dr. Abrahamson > From: Sharron Fuchs <SharronF@...> > Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:58:41 -0800 > ' Abrahamson' <drscott@...>, Sharron Fuchs > <SharronF@...>, 'Ravid Raphael' <raphaelr@...> > Cc: DC group < > > Subject: RE: Need help with Dx. > > hi, so if it is viral/ inflammatory why not try the anti-inflammatory stuff > first ? i was having trouble with the biomechanics of it all - which is what > the maneuver is for - a bio-correction of things floating around where they > are not supposed to be. i hate being dizzy - and now, after having kids, i > cannot enjoy swinging on a swing or going round on a merry-go-round. perhaps > my crystals are off ? -s- > > Re: Need help with Dx. >> >> >> , >> That procedure is called the Epley Maneuver and was developed by >> Epley, >> MD, an ENT here in Portland. I will send you a copy of the article he > wrote >> describing the procedure, I don't think it is indexed. >> Ravid Raphael, DC, DABCO >> Staff Clinician, WSCC >> >> Abrahamson wrote: >> >>> Have pt. with longstanding TMJ which has been aggravated by an MVA. >>> She has a weird auditory symptom complex in that when her dog comes near >>> with a jingling collar, it causes a buzzing in her head, wavy vision, and >>> some vertigo. >>> No nystagmus, ears are clear, tuning fork duplicates the symptom (L ear >>> only). >>> I am treating the TMJ with ultrasound, massage, mobilization > perpendicular >>> to the axis of rotation, cervical spine adjustments, a dowel to clenche >>> between the back teeth to stretch the joint, etc. >>> >>> I remember a procedure where you shake loose the crystals in the >>> semicircular canals by assisting the patient with a rapid supported >>> reclining motion off the end of the table. Can anyone describe this for >> me? >>> I will send you a box of chocolates. >>> -- >>> Dr. Abrahamson >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2008 Report Share Posted May 11, 2008 Its hard to diagnose anything until labs are done. I've talked to individuals who had Lyme even with antibiotic treatment it did not go away. They first thought I had Lyme even though not testing positive. My dog has it and had 3 courses of antibiotic treatment and he still has the bacteria in his system. Sometimes FMS can mimic Lyme. There are many rheumatological issues it could be, and its possible reactive arthritis from having had Lyme. The rheumatologist will most likely do a very detailed history and bloodwork up. No one can predict joint damage as we are all different. Some will respond to treatments that others will not. DMARDS slow RA joint damage, but again how long it takes for one to respond to a med and if they will or will not is hard to say. We are better off being diagnosed today than 25 years ago due to more knowledge medically, new drugs and treatments cedarholloweq <Kw1659@...> wrote: Hi Everyone, I know I am in the right place for this & I know that you all will be able to help me. I will try to keep this as short as possible and am desperate for your advice: 1999 - 2000: Lyme Dx. Treated for one year on and off oral antibiotics, I voluntarily stopped taking them and went to a Chinese Hebalist. Aug. 06: Arthroscopic knee surgery for constant pain - knee was clean, cyst removed - for the 8 weeks after surgery, my knee had to be drained 5 times, at the last draining, Oct. 26, 06, I was hospitalized for flu like symptoms and the knee drainage color was " off " - all tests negative or within normal limits except increased sed rate and CRP.. Nov. 06 - back to Lyme specialist for serongative lymes (we assumed) , many neruo symptoms and tons of body pain. IV antiobiotics for three months with only resolution of neuro symptoms, not the joint pain, headaches, etc...Again, I stopped the treatment because I felt I was getting no further resolution to my symptoms and my insurance did not cover the IV antibiotics entirely. My bill was skyrocketing. Several months later seen by Ifectious Disease MD and Neuro, again, all blood work neg or wnl, they basically implied it was all in my head. Sept 07, begain to see new GP who did very,very extensive blood work, my test for sarcoidosis came back slighly elevated which he said we would watch, RF neg, ANA neg but Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever very, very, sky high positive. We though we got to the basis of it all. I have very aggressive antiobiotic treatment for the next 5 months, oral and IV. My new GP was wonderful about it. Again, the only thing that didn't completely resolve was the joint pain. He began thinking Fibro. Referral to Pain Mgmt. and Neuro in April which I haven't seen yet. Since being off all the antiobiotics, I have had three episodes lasting three or more days of flu like symptoms that make me bedridden. I get a low grade fever at least once weekly. My joint pain has increased significantly, esp. in my elbows, hands, wrists and knees, periodically to my lower back and left hip. I cannot get out of bed in the morning until taking my pain meds and they " kick in " about 1 hour later. I get some swelling in my hands and have recently found a small, dime sized, nontender lump on the ulna side of my left wrist, also on my right wrist but not as large. I am currently bedridden again, third day in a row. I finally made an appointment for myself with a Rheumy who is seeing me this coming Tuesday. In my heart, I have always known what this probably is. I am sure you will all agree with me. What does it take to get these doctors to diagnose correctly and how much damage have my joints sustained the past couple of years. How did you all finally get a diagnoses and how long did it take? I am a Registered Nurse who finally left my job almost two years ago because I couldn't do it anymore - too sick, brain fogs, memory lapses, I just didn't want to take the chance with my patients. I am sorry this is so long, but I am so looking forward to hearing all of your opnions. Kelli in N.Y. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2008 Report Share Posted May 11, 2008 I had an excellent rheumatologist, but even he diagnosed me incorrectly at first. I kept calling and complaining to him about pain in places that would not have hurt if his diagnosis had been correct. It didn't take him long, then, to make the correct diagnosis of RA. X-rays of my hands showed no damage from the RA. He began aggressive treatment, which is needed as soon as possible, in order to prevent joint damage. Be the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Keep complaining until you get some relief. I wish you good luck. Sue On Sunday, May 11, 2008, at 10:40 AM, cedarholloweq wrote: > I finally made an appointment for myself with a Rheumy who is > seeing me this coming Tuesday. In my heart, I have always known what > this probably is. I am sure you will all agree with me. What does it > take to get these doctors to diagnose correctly and how much damage > have my joints sustained the past couple of years. How did you all > finally get a diagnoses and how long did it take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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