Re: Re: Is this formula have a name?/energy for obesity

[Guest guest]

So, how do you adjust for obesity, then? All that adipose tissue doesn't need to

be figured into the caloric needs.

W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT

Montana State Hospital

Long Term Care Consultant

InfoSites:

www.elk-hunting-tips.net

www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com

Re: Is this formula have a name?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >The simplified formula was tested vs the standard harris-benedict formula and

vs indirect calorimetry. There is no significant difference between using the

rule of the thumb (that is what we call that formula here in europe) and

estimated energy needs by indirect calorimetry and harris-benedict. ESPEN

recommends it and from my knowledge also GANEP (Brazilian office of parenteral

and enteral nutrition). There are several studies published with the comparison

you can find those references in ESPEN guidelines.

> >

> >Cátia Borges, nutricionista

> >ARS Norte, Portugal

> >

> >>

> >>

> >> Hi All and sorry for the cross-posting,

> >>

> >> We are all using the formula for estimating needs : 25-30 Kcal/kg etc.

> >> Does this formula has a name?

> >>

> >> Thanks

> >>

> >>

> >> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN, CSG

> >> A dietitian, not the food police.

> >>

> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> " Life is not measured by the number of breath you take, but by the

> >> moments that take your breath away. " - Carlin " People don't

> >> forget the truth, they just become better in lying " (Revolutionary

> >> Road)

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

There is really no way, unless you use indirect calorimetry. Simply wanting

something to happen doesn't mean that it happens. There is absolutely no

scientific basis behind this adjustment. It was sort of pulled from thin air by

the renal RDs who wanted a way to justify what they wanted to feed patients.

All that adipose tissue is much more metabolically active than we previously

thought.

Take a look at research done by Carol Ireton-, PhD, RD. She's an expert in

the area of energy expenditure. Her dissertation research led to the

Ireton- equations.

Regards,

pam

Pam Charney, PhD, RD

Affiliate Associate Professor

Pharmacy

MS Student

Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

School of Nursing

University of Washington

Seattle, WA

pcharney@...

http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

> So, how do you adjust for obesity, then? All that adipose tissue doesn't need

to be figured into the caloric needs.

>

> W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT

> Montana State Hospital

> Long Term Care Consultant

> InfoSites:

> www.elk-hunting-tips.net

> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com

>

> Re: Is this formula have a name?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >The simplified formula was tested vs the standard harris-benedict formula

and vs indirect calorimetry. There is no significant difference between using

the rule of the thumb (that is what we call that formula here in europe) and

estimated energy needs by indirect calorimetry and harris-benedict. ESPEN

recommends it and from my knowledge also GANEP (Brazilian office of parenteral

and enteral nutrition). There are several studies published with the comparison

you can find those references in ESPEN guidelines.

> > >

> > >Cátia Borges, nutricionista

> > >ARS Norte, Portugal

> > >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Hi All and sorry for the cross-posting,

> > >>

> > >> We are all using the formula for estimating needs : 25-30 Kcal/kg etc.

> > >> Does this formula has a name?

> > >>

> > >> Thanks

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN, CSG

> > >> A dietitian, not the food police.

> > >>

> > >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> " Life is not measured by the number of breath you take, but by the

> > >> moments that take your breath away. " - Carlin " People don't

> > >> forget the truth, they just become better in lying " (Revolutionary

> > >> Road)

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

[Guest guest]

There is really no way, unless you use indirect calorimetry. Simply wanting

something to happen doesn't mean that it happens. There is absolutely no

scientific basis behind this adjustment. It was sort of pulled from thin air by

the renal RDs who wanted a way to justify what they wanted to feed patients.

All that adipose tissue is much more metabolically active than we previously

thought.

Take a look at research done by Carol Ireton-, PhD, RD. She's an expert in

the area of energy expenditure. Her dissertation research led to the

Ireton- equations.

Regards,

pam

Pam Charney, PhD, RD

Affiliate Associate Professor

Pharmacy

MS Student

Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

School of Nursing

University of Washington

Seattle, WA

pcharney@...

http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

> So, how do you adjust for obesity, then? All that adipose tissue doesn't need

to be figured into the caloric needs.

>

> W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT

> Montana State Hospital

> Long Term Care Consultant

> InfoSites:

> www.elk-hunting-tips.net

> www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com

>

> Re: Is this formula have a name?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >The simplified formula was tested vs the standard harris-benedict formula

and vs indirect calorimetry. There is no significant difference between using

the rule of the thumb (that is what we call that formula here in europe) and

estimated energy needs by indirect calorimetry and harris-benedict. ESPEN

recommends it and from my knowledge also GANEP (Brazilian office of parenteral

and enteral nutrition). There are several studies published with the comparison

you can find those references in ESPEN guidelines.

> > >

> > >Cátia Borges, nutricionista

> > >ARS Norte, Portugal

> > >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Hi All and sorry for the cross-posting,

> > >>

> > >> We are all using the formula for estimating needs : 25-30 Kcal/kg etc.

> > >> Does this formula has a name?

> > >>

> > >> Thanks

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN, CSG

> > >> A dietitian, not the food police.

> > >>

> > >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> " Life is not measured by the number of breath you take, but by the

> > >> moments that take your breath away. " - Carlin " People don't

> > >> forget the truth, they just become better in lying " (Revolutionary

> > >> Road)

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

[Guest guest]

When I calculate calorie needs for a 300+ pound patient, I know they do not need

to be fed 2700 kcals in order to " maintain " their weight. When I use a method,

scientific or not, to reduce that number in my assessment, they do not gain

weight and they most often do not lose weight, either on that amount of

calories. If I want to help them lose weight, I lower that number that has kept

their weight constant for a couple of weeks, or so, if they are willing. Then

they start to lose weight.

W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT

Montana State Hospital

Long Term Care Consultant

InfoSites:

www.elk-hunting-tips.net

www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com

Re: Is this formula have a name?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >The simplified formula was tested vs the standard harris-benedict formula

and vs indirect calorimetry. There is no significant difference between using

the rule of the thumb (that is what we call that formula here in europe) and

estimated energy needs by indirect calorimetry and harris-benedict. ESPEN

recommends it and from my knowledge also GANEP (Brazilian office of parenteral

and enteral nutrition). There are several studies published with the comparison

you can find those references in ESPEN guidelines.

> > >

> > >Cátia Borges, nutricionista

> > >ARS Norte, Portugal

> > >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Hi All and sorry for the cross-posting,

> > >>

> > >> We are all using the formula for estimating needs : 25-30 Kcal/kg etc.

> > >> Does this formula has a name?

> > >>

> > >> Thanks

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN, CSG

> > >> A dietitian, not the food police.

> > >>

> > >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> " Life is not measured by the number of breath you take, but by

> > >> the moments that take your breath away. " - Carlin " People

> > >> don't forget the truth, they just become better in lying "

> > >> (Revolutionary

> > >> Road)

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

[Guest guest]

Excellent. Always learning from you. Will look it up

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN, CSG

Sent from my iPhone

> There is really no way, unless you use indirect calorimetry. Simply wanting

something to happen doesn't mean that it happens. There is absolutely no

scientific basis behind this adjustment. It was sort of pulled from thin air by

the renal RDs who wanted a way to justify what they wanted to feed patients.

>

> All that adipose tissue is much more metabolically active than we previously

thought.

>

> Take a look at research done by Carol Ireton-, PhD, RD. She's an expert

in the area of energy expenditure. Her dissertation research led to the

Ireton- equations.

>

> Regards,

> pam

>

> Pam Charney, PhD, RD

> Affiliate Associate Professor

> Pharmacy

>

> MS Student

> Clinical Informatics and Patient Centered Technology

> School of Nursing

>

> University of Washington

> Seattle, WA

> pcharney@...

> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pamcharney

>

>

>

>

>

>> So, how do you adjust for obesity, then? All that adipose tissue doesn't need

to be figured into the caloric needs.

>>

>> W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT

>> Montana State Hospital

>> Long Term Care Consultant

>> InfoSites:

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you everyone for participating in this conversation. Excellent info.

Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN, CSGA dietitian, not the food police.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

" Life is not measured by the number of breath you take, but by the moments that

take your breath away. " - Carlin " People don't forget the truth, they just

become better in lying " (Revolutionary Road)

To: rd-usa

From: drowell@...

Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:36:33 +0000

Subject: RE: Re: Is this formula have a name?/energy for obesity

When I calculate calorie needs for a 300+ pound patient, I know they do

not need to be fed 2700 kcals in order to " maintain " their weight. When I use a

method, scientific or not, to reduce that number in my assessment, they do not

gain weight and they most often do not lose weight, either on that amount of

calories. If I want to help them lose weight, I lower that number that has kept

their weight constant for a couple of weeks, or so, if they are willing. Then

they start to lose weight.

W. Rowell, RD, LN, CLT

Montana State Hospital

Long Term Care Consultant

InfoSites:

www.elk-hunting-tips.net

www.benefits-of-massage-therapy.com

Re: Is this formula have a name?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >The simplified formula was tested vs the standard harris-benedict formula

and vs indirect calorimetry. There is no significant difference between using

the rule of the thumb (that is what we call that formula here in europe) and

estimated energy needs by indirect calorimetry and harris-benedict. ESPEN

recommends it and from my knowledge also GANEP (Brazilian office of parenteral

and enteral nutrition). There are several studies published with the comparison

you can find those references in ESPEN guidelines.

> > >

> > >Cátia Borges, nutricionista

> > >ARS Norte, Portugal

> > >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Hi All and sorry for the cross-posting,

> > >>

> > >> We are all using the formula for estimating needs : 25-30 Kcal/kg etc.

> > >> Does this formula has a name?

> > >>

> > >> Thanks

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Merav Levi, RD, MS, CDN, CSG

> > >> A dietitian, not the food police.

> > >>

> > >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/meravlevi

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> " Life is not measured by the number of breath you take, but by

> > >> the moments that take your breath away. " - Carlin " People

> > >> don't forget the truth, they just become better in lying "

> > >> (Revolutionary

> > >> Road)

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>