RE: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

[Guest guest]

I am really not educated on Dr. Derry's beliefs. I am just hypothicizing but I thought that only iodine would help those in countries that lack in iodine. But here in the US iodine deficency was not a problem that giving someone extra iodine really wouldn't do anything. But I really don't know. I am just guessing. I'll have to look a few things up and let you know. Plus, I have an appt with my doctor to have my stitches removed on friday and I will ask him. He is very knowledgeable. He graduated from harvard medical school and I know that he will give me an honest educated answer!

"Dreams are the touchstones of our character." Henry Thoreau

RE: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Thanks . I under stand that. That is why I am not "mad" at . At the same time, I wanted her to know how I feel so maybe she could respond better the next time. If I had been mad, I wouldn't have contined the post asking her questions. I guess I came across too strong also.

Anyway, I'm so confused, I dont' know what to ask for. Dr. Derry, I thought, is highly respected on these boards and his book is so well referenced? Yet some here have opposing views/experience. Why would iodine help some and not others? That will be a question for Dr. Milton when I see him. I am counting the days......

Blesisngs,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: melissa Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:33 AMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Hon, just remember that emails don't have a tone. I have often felt that someone had a harsh tone when in fact it was just the way that I was interpreting the email. Yes we are all here to learn so please don't be upset!

And if you need any help researching something just let me know. I have a cable modem and can do it quite fast. So feel free to email me privately or on list with what you need. I have plenty of spare time since I am on restrictions after my surgery. So, I don't mind at all! Hope you are having a good day!

"Dreams are the touchstones of our character." Henry Thoreau

[Guest guest]

I am really not educated on Dr. Derry's beliefs. I am just hypothicizing but I thought that only iodine would help those in countries that lack in iodine. But here in the US iodine deficency was not a problem that giving someone extra iodine really wouldn't do anything. But I really don't know. I am just guessing. I'll have to look a few things up and let you know. Plus, I have an appt with my doctor to have my stitches removed on friday and I will ask him. He is very knowledgeable. He graduated from harvard medical school and I know that he will give me an honest educated answer!

"Dreams are the touchstones of our character." Henry Thoreau

RE: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Thanks . I under stand that. That is why I am not "mad" at . At the same time, I wanted her to know how I feel so maybe she could respond better the next time. If I had been mad, I wouldn't have contined the post asking her questions. I guess I came across too strong also.

Anyway, I'm so confused, I dont' know what to ask for. Dr. Derry, I thought, is highly respected on these boards and his book is so well referenced? Yet some here have opposing views/experience. Why would iodine help some and not others? That will be a question for Dr. Milton when I see him. I am counting the days......

Blesisngs,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: melissa Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:33 AMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Hon, just remember that emails don't have a tone. I have often felt that someone had a harsh tone when in fact it was just the way that I was interpreting the email. Yes we are all here to learn so please don't be upset!

And if you need any help researching something just let me know. I have a cable modem and can do it quite fast. So feel free to email me privately or on list with what you need. I have plenty of spare time since I am on restrictions after my surgery. So, I don't mind at all! Hope you are having a good day!

"Dreams are the touchstones of our character." Henry Thoreau

[Guest guest]

My endo said 90% of people who are hypo have Hashi's.

I would listen to your body. Shomon doesn't like iodine.

Louise

> I don't doubt that she has done her homework and I welcome all

points of

> view. However, she could have said something like: " Do you have

> Hashimoto's. In my research and/or experience, I've found that

those

> with hashi's ....... " Regardless, I'm not mad, just stating my

> feelings. I hope or someone will explain further.

> I am still wondering why iodine is bad for hashi's but not for one

who

> is simply hypothyroid. Does the iodine make you go hyper? Does it

> make you more hypo? I have been told I'm hashi's, but have never

had the

> hyper/hypo swings ya'll speak of. I'm just hypo all the time.

> I have talked with a hypo patient whose doc prescribed iodine. She

was

> up to 450mg Armour and was looking at being able to reduce the

armour

> b/c her body was getting the iodine that it needed.

> So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

> Blessings,

> Debbie K.

>

> Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

>

>

> Let's remember, that we all are here learning and sharing our own

> experiences. We all are experts here on ourselves, and a lot of the

> time, we know ourselves a lot better than the docs do----Topper's

> history is a prime example.

> 's response seemed to me to be the loving response of someone

who

> has done her homework and does not want others to suffer , as all

of us

> on this board do want to ease suffering.Debbie, you have given some

good

> insights as well....

> hugs

> Feisty

>

>

> Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

>

> Hi all!

> I've not had time for participating lately, but have been

reading

> most posts. Just wanted to let you know I had the lumpectomy this

am.

> Everything went fine and docs are still confident that it was not

> malignant. But, we won't know for sure until next tuesday. I'm a

little

> light headed from the pain medicine, but other than that, all is

well.

> I have just finished reading Dr. Derry;s book' " Breast Cancer &

> Iodine. " It has a whole section on thyroid. I will post a few

quotes in

> a lter post. I am convinced that I want to take iodine supplement.

> Does anyone know where you can order Lugol's iodine? I know there

are

> other sources, but I would like to at least start with this.

> Blessings,

> Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

I'd love to get his view on this ...

Topper ()

On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 17:58:04 -0400 "melissa" writes:

I am really not educated on Dr. Derry's beliefs. I am just hypothicizing but I thought that only iodine would help those in countries that lack in iodine. But here in the US iodine deficency was not a problem that giving someone extra iodine really wouldn't do anything. But I really don't know. I am just guessing. I'll have to look a few things up and let you know. Plus, I have an appt with my doctor to have my stitches removed on friday and I will ask him. He is very knowledgeable. He graduated from harvard medical school and I know that he will give me an honest educated answer!

"Dreams are the touchstones of our character." Henry Thoreau

[Guest guest]

I'd love to get his view on this ...

Topper ()

On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 17:58:04 -0400 "melissa" writes:

I am really not educated on Dr. Derry's beliefs. I am just hypothicizing but I thought that only iodine would help those in countries that lack in iodine. But here in the US iodine deficency was not a problem that giving someone extra iodine really wouldn't do anything. But I really don't know. I am just guessing. I'll have to look a few things up and let you know. Plus, I have an appt with my doctor to have my stitches removed on friday and I will ask him. He is very knowledgeable. He graduated from harvard medical school and I know that he will give me an honest educated answer!

"Dreams are the touchstones of our character." Henry Thoreau

[Guest guest]

Thanks so very much Topper. I have already learned most of this, but am going to print this out and read it over and over till I get it. Three or four years ago, I was told I had a goiter and given $inthroid. (So, according to what you're saying, I was iodine deficient then. I didn't need thyroid supplementation, I needed iodine.) In Feb I was told I have hashi's. My diet has not changed so my iodine levels should be the same.If I was iodine deficient then, then I should be iodine deficient now.

The reason I am interested in iodine is b/c Dr. Derry says iodine prevents and perhaps even cures cancer so the rest of your body needs the iodine. But if you supplement with iodine, the thyroid is going to absorb all the iodine until it gets saturated. Only then can iodine go to other parts of the body. I guess this is why he treats (or I should say "treated" as he passed away last fall) breast cancer with a combination of iodine and Armour. But I think he was saying that most breast cancer victims have both thyroid issues and low iodine. I've got to go back and study his book some more. My foggy brain may be misinterpreting something.

All I know is I've got a lot to ask Dr. Milton. As I said, thank God, I'm finally getting to go see him. It has taken me six months to convince dh that neither I nor the docs around here are capable of handling this. I just want to get well and I don't want anymore problems with potentially cancerous lumps in my breast.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: topper2@... Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:21 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Debbie, I see that you do have Hashi's...

You're a bit puzzled.. I'll try to give you a bit of a different view, maybe it will be easier to understand.

Hashi's involves antibodies that attack they thyroid gland. Without going into a whole lot of detail.. they antibodies see the thyroid gland as a foreign body and attack it with the end goal of destroying it. It doesnt' go away... it will continue until the gland dies.

What varies between individuals is the level of the antibodies and how that level fluctuates.... For some the antibodies go high quickly and attack the gland mercilessly causing thyroid production to become greatly reduced. As the hormone level drops the antibody level drops and the gland recovers, but not completely... it's less efficient than it was before. It doesnt' work as well, part of it has died... The hormone level comes up after a while, how long that period of time is depends on the person. For some it's days, weeks, months, years..... for some the gland doesn't recover.. but doesn't really die.

Is it a little clearer how it works... Thyroid functions, antibodies decide to launch an attack, the thyroid production reduces, antibodies reduce, thyroid recovers partially, hormone production starts to increase, antibodies build and attack again.

This cycle continues until the gland dies. Or you do. Which ever comes first.

What makes it so hard is that it doesn't have the same cycle in everyone... as I said before... for some it days or weeks or months or years......

To add iodine increases the production of hormone, in the same way that the enlargement of the gland (a goiter) increases production of hormone. If part of the gland dies, the living parts can increase in size to attempt to increase hormone production to keep the body healthy.

Adding iodine, if you have Hashi's can increase hormone.... that can also trigger the production of antibodies.

It's a vicious cycle and hard to understand. I often consider myself the lucky one. I had RAI and my thyroid is dead. I didn't have an autoimmune disease (like Hashi's or Grave's) I have a TSH receptor defect, my body was unable to control the output of my gland... it just happened that mine stuck in low hyper for a couple of decades, then went into thyroid storm.

Treatment for Hashi's varies on the individual. is dealing with Hashi's she monitors her levels every three months through Health Check and adjusts her meds accordingly. Others choose to have surgery to remove the gland. Others add RAI to that to remove that part of the gland that remains and still causes problems. Others opt for RAI to totally destroy the gland and be done with it. It's an individual choice, based on your circumstance.

Tap into the experience of the other folks here that are dealing with Hashi's. Find out what symptoms they've had to deal with and their method of treatment... You may get a better grasp on what would be the better treatment for you....

Low grade hypo is horrid, I've been there... Low grade hyper is horrid, I've been there too.... severe hypo sucks, I've been there too. But, I still feel that of all the phases that I've been through, for all the years that I deal with each... Thyroid storm beats them all for being the most terrifying...

That is why I got so afraid when I read that you'd posted this morning that you wanted to try iodine therapy....

For someone that is hypo due to iodine deficiency.. I'm gonna venture to say that the most common symptom is goiter, the enlargement of the gland to force as much hormone production as possible. If the iodine intake is insufficient for adequate production the gland enlarges to allow it to filter ALL the iodine it possibly can from the blood to continue to produce more hormone.

See... when the cells of the body do the conversion of T4 to T3 it is done by pulling an iodine molecule off of a T4 molecule, leaving a T3 molecule and an iodine molecule behind.... in a body with adequate iodine intake, excess iodine is expelled from the body in the urine, in a body with insufficient intake, the gland enlarges, filtering everything it can from the blood to make more hormone.

The thyroid gland is so perfectly adept at filtering Iodine out of the blood that doctors found that the most efficient way to kill a thyroid gland was to give radioactive iodine (RAI) to the person. The thyroid gland filters most of it out of the blood and traps it within itself, the radiation then kills the gland... what's left of the radiation is then expelled from the body through body fluids (urine, sweat, fecal matter, body oil, tears, mucous and the moisture in the breath that is exhaled).

So far the medical technique is not advanced to the point where the entire thyroid gland can be removed. That is why there is always part left behind. Often the part that remains continues to function, but usually is not able to produce enough hormone to keep the person functioning in a healthy manner... they go hypo.

Its that same lack of technique that prevents thyroid gland transplant... They can't remove the gland intact AND most likely the body would see it as a foreign body and attack it anyway... leaving the person, in effect, with Hashi's.

I don't know if my attempt at explaining has helped.. but I hope that I've given you enough info to allow you to form questions to ask so that you can understand it better.

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:25:18 -0500 Debbie K writes:

I don't doubt that she has done her homework and I welcome all points of view. However, she could have said something like: "Do you have Hashimoto's. In my research and/or experience, I've found that those with hashi's ......." Regardless, I'm not mad, just stating my feelings. I hope or someone will explain further.

I am still wondering why iodine is bad for hashi's but not for one who is simply hypothyroid. Does the iodine make you go hyper? Does it make you more hypo? I have been told I'm hashi's, but have never had the hyper/hypo swings ya'll speak of. I'm just hypo all the time.

I have talked with a hypo patient whose doc prescribed iodine. She was up to 450mg Armour and was looking at being able to reduce the armour b/c her body was getting the iodine that it needed.

So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

Thanks so very much Topper. I have already learned most of this, but am going to print this out and read it over and over till I get it. Three or four years ago, I was told I had a goiter and given $inthroid. (So, according to what you're saying, I was iodine deficient then. I didn't need thyroid supplementation, I needed iodine.) In Feb I was told I have hashi's. My diet has not changed so my iodine levels should be the same.If I was iodine deficient then, then I should be iodine deficient now.

The reason I am interested in iodine is b/c Dr. Derry says iodine prevents and perhaps even cures cancer so the rest of your body needs the iodine. But if you supplement with iodine, the thyroid is going to absorb all the iodine until it gets saturated. Only then can iodine go to other parts of the body. I guess this is why he treats (or I should say "treated" as he passed away last fall) breast cancer with a combination of iodine and Armour. But I think he was saying that most breast cancer victims have both thyroid issues and low iodine. I've got to go back and study his book some more. My foggy brain may be misinterpreting something.

All I know is I've got a lot to ask Dr. Milton. As I said, thank God, I'm finally getting to go see him. It has taken me six months to convince dh that neither I nor the docs around here are capable of handling this. I just want to get well and I don't want anymore problems with potentially cancerous lumps in my breast.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: topper2@... Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:21 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Debbie, I see that you do have Hashi's...

You're a bit puzzled.. I'll try to give you a bit of a different view, maybe it will be easier to understand.

Hashi's involves antibodies that attack they thyroid gland. Without going into a whole lot of detail.. they antibodies see the thyroid gland as a foreign body and attack it with the end goal of destroying it. It doesnt' go away... it will continue until the gland dies.

What varies between individuals is the level of the antibodies and how that level fluctuates.... For some the antibodies go high quickly and attack the gland mercilessly causing thyroid production to become greatly reduced. As the hormone level drops the antibody level drops and the gland recovers, but not completely... it's less efficient than it was before. It doesnt' work as well, part of it has died... The hormone level comes up after a while, how long that period of time is depends on the person. For some it's days, weeks, months, years..... for some the gland doesn't recover.. but doesn't really die.

Is it a little clearer how it works... Thyroid functions, antibodies decide to launch an attack, the thyroid production reduces, antibodies reduce, thyroid recovers partially, hormone production starts to increase, antibodies build and attack again.

This cycle continues until the gland dies. Or you do. Which ever comes first.

What makes it so hard is that it doesn't have the same cycle in everyone... as I said before... for some it days or weeks or months or years......

To add iodine increases the production of hormone, in the same way that the enlargement of the gland (a goiter) increases production of hormone. If part of the gland dies, the living parts can increase in size to attempt to increase hormone production to keep the body healthy.

Adding iodine, if you have Hashi's can increase hormone.... that can also trigger the production of antibodies.

It's a vicious cycle and hard to understand. I often consider myself the lucky one. I had RAI and my thyroid is dead. I didn't have an autoimmune disease (like Hashi's or Grave's) I have a TSH receptor defect, my body was unable to control the output of my gland... it just happened that mine stuck in low hyper for a couple of decades, then went into thyroid storm.

Treatment for Hashi's varies on the individual. is dealing with Hashi's she monitors her levels every three months through Health Check and adjusts her meds accordingly. Others choose to have surgery to remove the gland. Others add RAI to that to remove that part of the gland that remains and still causes problems. Others opt for RAI to totally destroy the gland and be done with it. It's an individual choice, based on your circumstance.

Tap into the experience of the other folks here that are dealing with Hashi's. Find out what symptoms they've had to deal with and their method of treatment... You may get a better grasp on what would be the better treatment for you....

Low grade hypo is horrid, I've been there... Low grade hyper is horrid, I've been there too.... severe hypo sucks, I've been there too. But, I still feel that of all the phases that I've been through, for all the years that I deal with each... Thyroid storm beats them all for being the most terrifying...

That is why I got so afraid when I read that you'd posted this morning that you wanted to try iodine therapy....

For someone that is hypo due to iodine deficiency.. I'm gonna venture to say that the most common symptom is goiter, the enlargement of the gland to force as much hormone production as possible. If the iodine intake is insufficient for adequate production the gland enlarges to allow it to filter ALL the iodine it possibly can from the blood to continue to produce more hormone.

See... when the cells of the body do the conversion of T4 to T3 it is done by pulling an iodine molecule off of a T4 molecule, leaving a T3 molecule and an iodine molecule behind.... in a body with adequate iodine intake, excess iodine is expelled from the body in the urine, in a body with insufficient intake, the gland enlarges, filtering everything it can from the blood to make more hormone.

The thyroid gland is so perfectly adept at filtering Iodine out of the blood that doctors found that the most efficient way to kill a thyroid gland was to give radioactive iodine (RAI) to the person. The thyroid gland filters most of it out of the blood and traps it within itself, the radiation then kills the gland... what's left of the radiation is then expelled from the body through body fluids (urine, sweat, fecal matter, body oil, tears, mucous and the moisture in the breath that is exhaled).

So far the medical technique is not advanced to the point where the entire thyroid gland can be removed. That is why there is always part left behind. Often the part that remains continues to function, but usually is not able to produce enough hormone to keep the person functioning in a healthy manner... they go hypo.

Its that same lack of technique that prevents thyroid gland transplant... They can't remove the gland intact AND most likely the body would see it as a foreign body and attack it anyway... leaving the person, in effect, with Hashi's.

I don't know if my attempt at explaining has helped.. but I hope that I've given you enough info to allow you to form questions to ask so that you can understand it better.

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:25:18 -0500 Debbie K writes:

I don't doubt that she has done her homework and I welcome all points of view. However, she could have said something like: "Do you have Hashimoto's. In my research and/or experience, I've found that those with hashi's ......." Regardless, I'm not mad, just stating my feelings. I hope or someone will explain further.

I am still wondering why iodine is bad for hashi's but not for one who is simply hypothyroid. Does the iodine make you go hyper? Does it make you more hypo? I have been told I'm hashi's, but have never had the hyper/hypo swings ya'll speak of. I'm just hypo all the time.

I have talked with a hypo patient whose doc prescribed iodine. She was up to 450mg Armour and was looking at being able to reduce the armour b/c her body was getting the iodine that it needed.

So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

Thanks so very much Topper. I have already learned most of this, but am going to print this out and read it over and over till I get it. Three or four years ago, I was told I had a goiter and given $inthroid. (So, according to what you're saying, I was iodine deficient then. I didn't need thyroid supplementation, I needed iodine.) In Feb I was told I have hashi's. My diet has not changed so my iodine levels should be the same.If I was iodine deficient then, then I should be iodine deficient now.

The reason I am interested in iodine is b/c Dr. Derry says iodine prevents and perhaps even cures cancer so the rest of your body needs the iodine. But if you supplement with iodine, the thyroid is going to absorb all the iodine until it gets saturated. Only then can iodine go to other parts of the body. I guess this is why he treats (or I should say "treated" as he passed away last fall) breast cancer with a combination of iodine and Armour. But I think he was saying that most breast cancer victims have both thyroid issues and low iodine. I've got to go back and study his book some more. My foggy brain may be misinterpreting something.

All I know is I've got a lot to ask Dr. Milton. As I said, thank God, I'm finally getting to go see him. It has taken me six months to convince dh that neither I nor the docs around here are capable of handling this. I just want to get well and I don't want anymore problems with potentially cancerous lumps in my breast.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: topper2@... Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:21 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Debbie, I see that you do have Hashi's...

You're a bit puzzled.. I'll try to give you a bit of a different view, maybe it will be easier to understand.

Hashi's involves antibodies that attack they thyroid gland. Without going into a whole lot of detail.. they antibodies see the thyroid gland as a foreign body and attack it with the end goal of destroying it. It doesnt' go away... it will continue until the gland dies.

What varies between individuals is the level of the antibodies and how that level fluctuates.... For some the antibodies go high quickly and attack the gland mercilessly causing thyroid production to become greatly reduced. As the hormone level drops the antibody level drops and the gland recovers, but not completely... it's less efficient than it was before. It doesnt' work as well, part of it has died... The hormone level comes up after a while, how long that period of time is depends on the person. For some it's days, weeks, months, years..... for some the gland doesn't recover.. but doesn't really die.

Is it a little clearer how it works... Thyroid functions, antibodies decide to launch an attack, the thyroid production reduces, antibodies reduce, thyroid recovers partially, hormone production starts to increase, antibodies build and attack again.

This cycle continues until the gland dies. Or you do. Which ever comes first.

What makes it so hard is that it doesn't have the same cycle in everyone... as I said before... for some it days or weeks or months or years......

To add iodine increases the production of hormone, in the same way that the enlargement of the gland (a goiter) increases production of hormone. If part of the gland dies, the living parts can increase in size to attempt to increase hormone production to keep the body healthy.

Adding iodine, if you have Hashi's can increase hormone.... that can also trigger the production of antibodies.

It's a vicious cycle and hard to understand. I often consider myself the lucky one. I had RAI and my thyroid is dead. I didn't have an autoimmune disease (like Hashi's or Grave's) I have a TSH receptor defect, my body was unable to control the output of my gland... it just happened that mine stuck in low hyper for a couple of decades, then went into thyroid storm.

Treatment for Hashi's varies on the individual. is dealing with Hashi's she monitors her levels every three months through Health Check and adjusts her meds accordingly. Others choose to have surgery to remove the gland. Others add RAI to that to remove that part of the gland that remains and still causes problems. Others opt for RAI to totally destroy the gland and be done with it. It's an individual choice, based on your circumstance.

Tap into the experience of the other folks here that are dealing with Hashi's. Find out what symptoms they've had to deal with and their method of treatment... You may get a better grasp on what would be the better treatment for you....

Low grade hypo is horrid, I've been there... Low grade hyper is horrid, I've been there too.... severe hypo sucks, I've been there too. But, I still feel that of all the phases that I've been through, for all the years that I deal with each... Thyroid storm beats them all for being the most terrifying...

That is why I got so afraid when I read that you'd posted this morning that you wanted to try iodine therapy....

For someone that is hypo due to iodine deficiency.. I'm gonna venture to say that the most common symptom is goiter, the enlargement of the gland to force as much hormone production as possible. If the iodine intake is insufficient for adequate production the gland enlarges to allow it to filter ALL the iodine it possibly can from the blood to continue to produce more hormone.

See... when the cells of the body do the conversion of T4 to T3 it is done by pulling an iodine molecule off of a T4 molecule, leaving a T3 molecule and an iodine molecule behind.... in a body with adequate iodine intake, excess iodine is expelled from the body in the urine, in a body with insufficient intake, the gland enlarges, filtering everything it can from the blood to make more hormone.

The thyroid gland is so perfectly adept at filtering Iodine out of the blood that doctors found that the most efficient way to kill a thyroid gland was to give radioactive iodine (RAI) to the person. The thyroid gland filters most of it out of the blood and traps it within itself, the radiation then kills the gland... what's left of the radiation is then expelled from the body through body fluids (urine, sweat, fecal matter, body oil, tears, mucous and the moisture in the breath that is exhaled).

So far the medical technique is not advanced to the point where the entire thyroid gland can be removed. That is why there is always part left behind. Often the part that remains continues to function, but usually is not able to produce enough hormone to keep the person functioning in a healthy manner... they go hypo.

Its that same lack of technique that prevents thyroid gland transplant... They can't remove the gland intact AND most likely the body would see it as a foreign body and attack it anyway... leaving the person, in effect, with Hashi's.

I don't know if my attempt at explaining has helped.. but I hope that I've given you enough info to allow you to form questions to ask so that you can understand it better.

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:25:18 -0500 Debbie K writes:

I don't doubt that she has done her homework and I welcome all points of view. However, she could have said something like: "Do you have Hashimoto's. In my research and/or experience, I've found that those with hashi's ......." Regardless, I'm not mad, just stating my feelings. I hope or someone will explain further.

I am still wondering why iodine is bad for hashi's but not for one who is simply hypothyroid. Does the iodine make you go hyper? Does it make you more hypo? I have been told I'm hashi's, but have never had the hyper/hypo swings ya'll speak of. I'm just hypo all the time.

I have talked with a hypo patient whose doc prescribed iodine. She was up to 450mg Armour and was looking at being able to reduce the armour b/c her body was getting the iodine that it needed.

So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

Dr Derry passed away? I had not heard that.

RE: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Thanks so very much Topper. I have already learned most of this, but am going to print this out and read it over and over till I get it. Three or four years ago, I was told I had a goiter and given $inthroid. (So, according to what you're saying, I was iodine deficient then. I didn't need thyroid supplementation, I needed iodine.) In Feb I was told I have hashi's. My diet has not changed so my iodine levels should be the same.If I was iodine deficient then, then I should be iodine deficient now.

The reason I am interested in iodine is b/c Dr. Derry says iodine prevents and perhaps even cures cancer so the rest of your body needs the iodine. But if you supplement with iodine, the thyroid is going to absorb all the iodine until it gets saturated. Only then can iodine go to other parts of the body. I guess this is why he treats (or I should say "treated" as he passed away last fall) breast cancer with a combination of iodine and Armour. But I think he was saying that most breast cancer victims have both thyroid issues and low iodine. I've got to go back and study his book some more. My foggy brain may be misinterpreting something.

All I know is I've got a lot to ask Dr. Milton. As I said, thank God, I'm finally getting to go see him. It has taken me six months to convince dh that neither I nor the docs around here are capable of handling this. I just want to get well and I don't want anymore problems with potentially cancerous lumps in my breast.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: topper2@... Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:21 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Debbie, I see that you do have Hashi's...

You're a bit puzzled.. I'll try to give you a bit of a different view, maybe it will be easier to understand.

Hashi's involves antibodies that attack they thyroid gland. Without going into a whole lot of detail.. they antibodies see the thyroid gland as a foreign body and attack it with the end goal of destroying it. It doesnt' go away... it will continue until the gland dies.

What varies between individuals is the level of the antibodies and how that level fluctuates.... For some the antibodies go high quickly and attack the gland mercilessly causing thyroid production to become greatly reduced. As the hormone level drops the antibody level drops and the gland recovers, but not completely... it's less efficient than it was before. It doesnt' work as well, part of it has died... The hormone level comes up after a while, how long that period of time is depends on the person. For some it's days, weeks, months, years..... for some the gland doesn't recover.. but doesn't really die.

Is it a little clearer how it works... Thyroid functions, antibodies decide to launch an attack, the thyroid production reduces, antibodies reduce, thyroid recovers partially, hormone production starts to increase, antibodies build and attack again.

This cycle continues until the gland dies. Or you do. Which ever comes first.

What makes it so hard is that it doesn't have the same cycle in everyone... as I said before... for some it days or weeks or months or years......

To add iodine increases the production of hormone, in the same way that the enlargement of the gland (a goiter) increases production of hormone. If part of the gland dies, the living parts can increase in size to attempt to increase hormone production to keep the body healthy.

Adding iodine, if you have Hashi's can increase hormone.... that can also trigger the production of antibodies.

It's a vicious cycle and hard to understand. I often consider myself the lucky one. I had RAI and my thyroid is dead. I didn't have an autoimmune disease (like Hashi's or Grave's) I have a TSH receptor defect, my body was unable to control the output of my gland... it just happened that mine stuck in low hyper for a couple of decades, then went into thyroid storm.

Treatment for Hashi's varies on the individual. is dealing with Hashi's she monitors her levels every three months through Health Check and adjusts her meds accordingly. Others choose to have surgery to remove the gland. Others add RAI to that to remove that part of the gland that remains and still causes problems. Others opt for RAI to totally destroy the gland and be done with it. It's an individual choice, based on your circumstance.

Tap into the experience of the other folks here that are dealing with Hashi's. Find out what symptoms they've had to deal with and their method of treatment... You may get a better grasp on what would be the better treatment for you....

Low grade hypo is horrid, I've been there... Low grade hyper is horrid, I've been there too.... severe hypo sucks, I've been there too. But, I still feel that of all the phases that I've been through, for all the years that I deal with each... Thyroid storm beats them all for being the most terrifying...

That is why I got so afraid when I read that you'd posted this morning that you wanted to try iodine therapy....

For someone that is hypo due to iodine deficiency.. I'm gonna venture to say that the most common symptom is goiter, the enlargement of the gland to force as much hormone production as possible. If the iodine intake is insufficient for adequate production the gland enlarges to allow it to filter ALL the iodine it possibly can from the blood to continue to produce more hormone.

See... when the cells of the body do the conversion of T4 to T3 it is done by pulling an iodine molecule off of a T4 molecule, leaving a T3 molecule and an iodine molecule behind.... in a body with adequate iodine intake, excess iodine is expelled from the body in the urine, in a body with insufficient intake, the gland enlarges, filtering everything it can from the blood to make more hormone.

The thyroid gland is so perfectly adept at filtering Iodine out of the blood that doctors found that the most efficient way to kill a thyroid gland was to give radioactive iodine (RAI) to the person. The thyroid gland filters most of it out of the blood and traps it within itself, the radiation then kills the gland... what's left of the radiation is then expelled from the body through body fluids (urine, sweat, fecal matter, body oil, tears, mucous and the moisture in the breath that is exhaled).

So far the medical technique is not advanced to the point where the entire thyroid gland can be removed. That is why there is always part left behind. Often the part that remains continues to function, but usually is not able to produce enough hormone to keep the person functioning in a healthy manner... they go hypo.

Its that same lack of technique that prevents thyroid gland transplant... They can't remove the gland intact AND most likely the body would see it as a foreign body and attack it anyway... leaving the person, in effect, with Hashi's.

I don't know if my attempt at explaining has helped.. but I hope that I've given you enough info to allow you to form questions to ask so that you can understand it better.

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:25:18 -0500 Debbie K writes:

I don't doubt that she has done her homework and I welcome all points of view. However, she could have said something like: "Do you have Hashimoto's. In my research and/or experience, I've found that those with hashi's ......." Regardless, I'm not mad, just stating my feelings. I hope or someone will explain further.

I am still wondering why iodine is bad for hashi's but not for one who is simply hypothyroid. Does the iodine make you go hyper? Does it make you more hypo? I have been told I'm hashi's, but have never had the hyper/hypo swings ya'll speak of. I'm just hypo all the time.

I have talked with a hypo patient whose doc prescribed iodine. She was up to 450mg Armour and was looking at being able to reduce the armour b/c her body was getting the iodine that it needed.

So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

Dr Derry passed away? I had not heard that.

RE: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Thanks so very much Topper. I have already learned most of this, but am going to print this out and read it over and over till I get it. Three or four years ago, I was told I had a goiter and given $inthroid. (So, according to what you're saying, I was iodine deficient then. I didn't need thyroid supplementation, I needed iodine.) In Feb I was told I have hashi's. My diet has not changed so my iodine levels should be the same.If I was iodine deficient then, then I should be iodine deficient now.

The reason I am interested in iodine is b/c Dr. Derry says iodine prevents and perhaps even cures cancer so the rest of your body needs the iodine. But if you supplement with iodine, the thyroid is going to absorb all the iodine until it gets saturated. Only then can iodine go to other parts of the body. I guess this is why he treats (or I should say "treated" as he passed away last fall) breast cancer with a combination of iodine and Armour. But I think he was saying that most breast cancer victims have both thyroid issues and low iodine. I've got to go back and study his book some more. My foggy brain may be misinterpreting something.

All I know is I've got a lot to ask Dr. Milton. As I said, thank God, I'm finally getting to go see him. It has taken me six months to convince dh that neither I nor the docs around here are capable of handling this. I just want to get well and I don't want anymore problems with potentially cancerous lumps in my breast.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: topper2@... Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:21 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Debbie, I see that you do have Hashi's...

You're a bit puzzled.. I'll try to give you a bit of a different view, maybe it will be easier to understand.

Hashi's involves antibodies that attack they thyroid gland. Without going into a whole lot of detail.. they antibodies see the thyroid gland as a foreign body and attack it with the end goal of destroying it. It doesnt' go away... it will continue until the gland dies.

What varies between individuals is the level of the antibodies and how that level fluctuates.... For some the antibodies go high quickly and attack the gland mercilessly causing thyroid production to become greatly reduced. As the hormone level drops the antibody level drops and the gland recovers, but not completely... it's less efficient than it was before. It doesnt' work as well, part of it has died... The hormone level comes up after a while, how long that period of time is depends on the person. For some it's days, weeks, months, years..... for some the gland doesn't recover.. but doesn't really die.

Is it a little clearer how it works... Thyroid functions, antibodies decide to launch an attack, the thyroid production reduces, antibodies reduce, thyroid recovers partially, hormone production starts to increase, antibodies build and attack again.

This cycle continues until the gland dies. Or you do. Which ever comes first.

What makes it so hard is that it doesn't have the same cycle in everyone... as I said before... for some it days or weeks or months or years......

To add iodine increases the production of hormone, in the same way that the enlargement of the gland (a goiter) increases production of hormone. If part of the gland dies, the living parts can increase in size to attempt to increase hormone production to keep the body healthy.

Adding iodine, if you have Hashi's can increase hormone.... that can also trigger the production of antibodies.

It's a vicious cycle and hard to understand. I often consider myself the lucky one. I had RAI and my thyroid is dead. I didn't have an autoimmune disease (like Hashi's or Grave's) I have a TSH receptor defect, my body was unable to control the output of my gland... it just happened that mine stuck in low hyper for a couple of decades, then went into thyroid storm.

Treatment for Hashi's varies on the individual. is dealing with Hashi's she monitors her levels every three months through Health Check and adjusts her meds accordingly. Others choose to have surgery to remove the gland. Others add RAI to that to remove that part of the gland that remains and still causes problems. Others opt for RAI to totally destroy the gland and be done with it. It's an individual choice, based on your circumstance.

Tap into the experience of the other folks here that are dealing with Hashi's. Find out what symptoms they've had to deal with and their method of treatment... You may get a better grasp on what would be the better treatment for you....

Low grade hypo is horrid, I've been there... Low grade hyper is horrid, I've been there too.... severe hypo sucks, I've been there too. But, I still feel that of all the phases that I've been through, for all the years that I deal with each... Thyroid storm beats them all for being the most terrifying...

That is why I got so afraid when I read that you'd posted this morning that you wanted to try iodine therapy....

For someone that is hypo due to iodine deficiency.. I'm gonna venture to say that the most common symptom is goiter, the enlargement of the gland to force as much hormone production as possible. If the iodine intake is insufficient for adequate production the gland enlarges to allow it to filter ALL the iodine it possibly can from the blood to continue to produce more hormone.

See... when the cells of the body do the conversion of T4 to T3 it is done by pulling an iodine molecule off of a T4 molecule, leaving a T3 molecule and an iodine molecule behind.... in a body with adequate iodine intake, excess iodine is expelled from the body in the urine, in a body with insufficient intake, the gland enlarges, filtering everything it can from the blood to make more hormone.

The thyroid gland is so perfectly adept at filtering Iodine out of the blood that doctors found that the most efficient way to kill a thyroid gland was to give radioactive iodine (RAI) to the person. The thyroid gland filters most of it out of the blood and traps it within itself, the radiation then kills the gland... what's left of the radiation is then expelled from the body through body fluids (urine, sweat, fecal matter, body oil, tears, mucous and the moisture in the breath that is exhaled).

So far the medical technique is not advanced to the point where the entire thyroid gland can be removed. That is why there is always part left behind. Often the part that remains continues to function, but usually is not able to produce enough hormone to keep the person functioning in a healthy manner... they go hypo.

Its that same lack of technique that prevents thyroid gland transplant... They can't remove the gland intact AND most likely the body would see it as a foreign body and attack it anyway... leaving the person, in effect, with Hashi's.

I don't know if my attempt at explaining has helped.. but I hope that I've given you enough info to allow you to form questions to ask so that you can understand it better.

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:25:18 -0500 Debbie K writes:

I don't doubt that she has done her homework and I welcome all points of view. However, she could have said something like: "Do you have Hashimoto's. In my research and/or experience, I've found that those with hashi's ......." Regardless, I'm not mad, just stating my feelings. I hope or someone will explain further.

I am still wondering why iodine is bad for hashi's but not for one who is simply hypothyroid. Does the iodine make you go hyper? Does it make you more hypo? I have been told I'm hashi's, but have never had the hyper/hypo swings ya'll speak of. I'm just hypo all the time.

I have talked with a hypo patient whose doc prescribed iodine. She was up to 450mg Armour and was looking at being able to reduce the armour b/c her body was getting the iodine that it needed.

So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

Dr Derry passed away? I had not heard that.

RE: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Thanks so very much Topper. I have already learned most of this, but am going to print this out and read it over and over till I get it. Three or four years ago, I was told I had a goiter and given $inthroid. (So, according to what you're saying, I was iodine deficient then. I didn't need thyroid supplementation, I needed iodine.) In Feb I was told I have hashi's. My diet has not changed so my iodine levels should be the same.If I was iodine deficient then, then I should be iodine deficient now.

The reason I am interested in iodine is b/c Dr. Derry says iodine prevents and perhaps even cures cancer so the rest of your body needs the iodine. But if you supplement with iodine, the thyroid is going to absorb all the iodine until it gets saturated. Only then can iodine go to other parts of the body. I guess this is why he treats (or I should say "treated" as he passed away last fall) breast cancer with a combination of iodine and Armour. But I think he was saying that most breast cancer victims have both thyroid issues and low iodine. I've got to go back and study his book some more. My foggy brain may be misinterpreting something.

All I know is I've got a lot to ask Dr. Milton. As I said, thank God, I'm finally getting to go see him. It has taken me six months to convince dh that neither I nor the docs around here are capable of handling this. I just want to get well and I don't want anymore problems with potentially cancerous lumps in my breast.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: topper2@... Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:21 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Debbie, I see that you do have Hashi's...

You're a bit puzzled.. I'll try to give you a bit of a different view, maybe it will be easier to understand.

Hashi's involves antibodies that attack they thyroid gland. Without going into a whole lot of detail.. they antibodies see the thyroid gland as a foreign body and attack it with the end goal of destroying it. It doesnt' go away... it will continue until the gland dies.

What varies between individuals is the level of the antibodies and how that level fluctuates.... For some the antibodies go high quickly and attack the gland mercilessly causing thyroid production to become greatly reduced. As the hormone level drops the antibody level drops and the gland recovers, but not completely... it's less efficient than it was before. It doesnt' work as well, part of it has died... The hormone level comes up after a while, how long that period of time is depends on the person. For some it's days, weeks, months, years..... for some the gland doesn't recover.. but doesn't really die.

Is it a little clearer how it works... Thyroid functions, antibodies decide to launch an attack, the thyroid production reduces, antibodies reduce, thyroid recovers partially, hormone production starts to increase, antibodies build and attack again.

This cycle continues until the gland dies. Or you do. Which ever comes first.

What makes it so hard is that it doesn't have the same cycle in everyone... as I said before... for some it days or weeks or months or years......

To add iodine increases the production of hormone, in the same way that the enlargement of the gland (a goiter) increases production of hormone. If part of the gland dies, the living parts can increase in size to attempt to increase hormone production to keep the body healthy.

Adding iodine, if you have Hashi's can increase hormone.... that can also trigger the production of antibodies.

It's a vicious cycle and hard to understand. I often consider myself the lucky one. I had RAI and my thyroid is dead. I didn't have an autoimmune disease (like Hashi's or Grave's) I have a TSH receptor defect, my body was unable to control the output of my gland... it just happened that mine stuck in low hyper for a couple of decades, then went into thyroid storm.

Treatment for Hashi's varies on the individual. is dealing with Hashi's she monitors her levels every three months through Health Check and adjusts her meds accordingly. Others choose to have surgery to remove the gland. Others add RAI to that to remove that part of the gland that remains and still causes problems. Others opt for RAI to totally destroy the gland and be done with it. It's an individual choice, based on your circumstance.

Tap into the experience of the other folks here that are dealing with Hashi's. Find out what symptoms they've had to deal with and their method of treatment... You may get a better grasp on what would be the better treatment for you....

Low grade hypo is horrid, I've been there... Low grade hyper is horrid, I've been there too.... severe hypo sucks, I've been there too. But, I still feel that of all the phases that I've been through, for all the years that I deal with each... Thyroid storm beats them all for being the most terrifying...

That is why I got so afraid when I read that you'd posted this morning that you wanted to try iodine therapy....

For someone that is hypo due to iodine deficiency.. I'm gonna venture to say that the most common symptom is goiter, the enlargement of the gland to force as much hormone production as possible. If the iodine intake is insufficient for adequate production the gland enlarges to allow it to filter ALL the iodine it possibly can from the blood to continue to produce more hormone.

See... when the cells of the body do the conversion of T4 to T3 it is done by pulling an iodine molecule off of a T4 molecule, leaving a T3 molecule and an iodine molecule behind.... in a body with adequate iodine intake, excess iodine is expelled from the body in the urine, in a body with insufficient intake, the gland enlarges, filtering everything it can from the blood to make more hormone.

The thyroid gland is so perfectly adept at filtering Iodine out of the blood that doctors found that the most efficient way to kill a thyroid gland was to give radioactive iodine (RAI) to the person. The thyroid gland filters most of it out of the blood and traps it within itself, the radiation then kills the gland... what's left of the radiation is then expelled from the body through body fluids (urine, sweat, fecal matter, body oil, tears, mucous and the moisture in the breath that is exhaled).

So far the medical technique is not advanced to the point where the entire thyroid gland can be removed. That is why there is always part left behind. Often the part that remains continues to function, but usually is not able to produce enough hormone to keep the person functioning in a healthy manner... they go hypo.

Its that same lack of technique that prevents thyroid gland transplant... They can't remove the gland intact AND most likely the body would see it as a foreign body and attack it anyway... leaving the person, in effect, with Hashi's.

I don't know if my attempt at explaining has helped.. but I hope that I've given you enough info to allow you to form questions to ask so that you can understand it better.

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:25:18 -0500 Debbie K writes:

I don't doubt that she has done her homework and I welcome all points of view. However, she could have said something like: "Do you have Hashimoto's. In my research and/or experience, I've found that those with hashi's ......." Regardless, I'm not mad, just stating my feelings. I hope or someone will explain further.

I am still wondering why iodine is bad for hashi's but not for one who is simply hypothyroid. Does the iodine make you go hyper? Does it make you more hypo? I have been told I'm hashi's, but have never had the hyper/hypo swings ya'll speak of. I'm just hypo all the time.

I have talked with a hypo patient whose doc prescribed iodine. She was up to 450mg Armour and was looking at being able to reduce the armour b/c her body was getting the iodine that it needed.

So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

I was thinking he did. But I cna't find anything concrete now. Maybe I was confused. I know Dr. Lee passed away last fall. Please forgive the fog. I think my hyponess is flaring up since my surgery.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: Deborah son Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:40 AMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Dr Derry passed away? I had not heard that.

RE: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Thanks so very much Topper. I have already learned most of this, but am going to print this out and read it over and over till I get it. Three or four years ago, I was told I had a goiter and given $inthroid. (So, according to what you're saying, I was iodine deficient then. I didn't need thyroid supplementation, I needed iodine.) In Feb I was told I have hashi's. My diet has not changed so my iodine levels should be the same.If I was iodine deficient then, then I should be iodine deficient now.

The reason I am interested in iodine is b/c Dr. Derry says iodine prevents and perhaps even cures cancer so the rest of your body needs the iodine. But if you supplement with iodine, the thyroid is going to absorb all the iodine until it gets saturated. Only then can iodine go to other parts of the body. I guess this is why he treats (or I should say "treated" as he passed away last fall) breast cancer with a combination of iodine and Armour. But I think he was saying that most breast cancer victims have both thyroid issues and low iodine. I've got to go back and study his book some more. My foggy brain may be misinterpreting something.

All I know is I've got a lot to ask Dr. Milton. As I said, thank God, I'm finally getting to go see him. It has taken me six months to convince dh that neither I nor the docs around here are capable of handling this. I just want to get well and I don't want anymore problems with potentially cancerous lumps in my breast.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: topper2@... Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:21 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Debbie, I see that you do have Hashi's...

You're a bit puzzled.. I'll try to give you a bit of a different view, maybe it will be easier to understand.

Hashi's involves antibodies that attack they thyroid gland. Without going into a whole lot of detail.. they antibodies see the thyroid gland as a foreign body and attack it with the end goal of destroying it. It doesnt' go away... it will continue until the gland dies.

What varies between individuals is the level of the antibodies and how that level fluctuates.... For some the antibodies go high quickly and attack the gland mercilessly causing thyroid production to become greatly reduced. As the hormone level drops the antibody level drops and the gland recovers, but not completely... it's less efficient than it was before. It doesnt' work as well, part of it has died... The hormone level comes up after a while, how long that period of time is depends on the person. For some it's days, weeks, months, years..... for some the gland doesn't recover.. but doesn't really die.

Is it a little clearer how it works... Thyroid functions, antibodies decide to launch an attack, the thyroid production reduces, antibodies reduce, thyroid recovers partially, hormone production starts to increase, antibodies build and attack again.

This cycle continues until the gland dies. Or you do. Which ever comes first.

What makes it so hard is that it doesn't have the same cycle in everyone... as I said before... for some it days or weeks or months or years......

To add iodine increases the production of hormone, in the same way that the enlargement of the gland (a goiter) increases production of hormone. If part of the gland dies, the living parts can increase in size to attempt to increase hormone production to keep the body healthy.

Adding iodine, if you have Hashi's can increase hormone.... that can also trigger the production of antibodies.

It's a vicious cycle and hard to understand. I often consider myself the lucky one. I had RAI and my thyroid is dead. I didn't have an autoimmune disease (like Hashi's or Grave's) I have a TSH receptor defect, my body was unable to control the output of my gland... it just happened that mine stuck in low hyper for a couple of decades, then went into thyroid storm.

Treatment for Hashi's varies on the individual. is dealing with Hashi's she monitors her levels every three months through Health Check and adjusts her meds accordingly. Others choose to have surgery to remove the gland. Others add RAI to that to remove that part of the gland that remains and still causes problems. Others opt for RAI to totally destroy the gland and be done with it. It's an individual choice, based on your circumstance.

Tap into the experience of the other folks here that are dealing with Hashi's. Find out what symptoms they've had to deal with and their method of treatment... You may get a better grasp on what would be the better treatment for you....

Low grade hypo is horrid, I've been there... Low grade hyper is horrid, I've been there too.... severe hypo sucks, I've been there too. But, I still feel that of all the phases that I've been through, for all the years that I deal with each... Thyroid storm beats them all for being the most terrifying...

That is why I got so afraid when I read that you'd posted this morning that you wanted to try iodine therapy....

For someone that is hypo due to iodine deficiency.. I'm gonna venture to say that the most common symptom is goiter, the enlargement of the gland to force as much hormone production as possible. If the iodine intake is insufficient for adequate production the gland enlarges to allow it to filter ALL the iodine it possibly can from the blood to continue to produce more hormone.

See... when the cells of the body do the conversion of T4 to T3 it is done by pulling an iodine molecule off of a T4 molecule, leaving a T3 molecule and an iodine molecule behind.... in a body with adequate iodine intake, excess iodine is expelled from the body in the urine, in a body with insufficient intake, the gland enlarges, filtering everything it can from the blood to make more hormone.

The thyroid gland is so perfectly adept at filtering Iodine out of the blood that doctors found that the most efficient way to kill a thyroid gland was to give radioactive iodine (RAI) to the person. The thyroid gland filters most of it out of the blood and traps it within itself, the radiation then kills the gland... what's left of the radiation is then expelled from the body through body fluids (urine, sweat, fecal matter, body oil, tears, mucous and the moisture in the breath that is exhaled).

So far the medical technique is not advanced to the point where the entire thyroid gland can be removed. That is why there is always part left behind. Often the part that remains continues to function, but usually is not able to produce enough hormone to keep the person functioning in a healthy manner... they go hypo.

Its that same lack of technique that prevents thyroid gland transplant... They can't remove the gland intact AND most likely the body would see it as a foreign body and attack it anyway... leaving the person, in effect, with Hashi's.

I don't know if my attempt at explaining has helped.. but I hope that I've given you enough info to allow you to form questions to ask so that you can understand it better.

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:25:18 -0500 Debbie K writes:

I don't doubt that she has done her homework and I welcome all points of view. However, she could have said something like: "Do you have Hashimoto's. In my research and/or experience, I've found that those with hashi's ......." Regardless, I'm not mad, just stating my feelings. I hope or someone will explain further.

I am still wondering why iodine is bad for hashi's but not for one who is simply hypothyroid. Does the iodine make you go hyper? Does it make you more hypo? I have been told I'm hashi's, but have never had the hyper/hypo swings ya'll speak of. I'm just hypo all the time.

I have talked with a hypo patient whose doc prescribed iodine. She was up to 450mg Armour and was looking at being able to reduce the armour b/c her body was getting the iodine that it needed.

So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

I was thinking he did. But I cna't find anything concrete now. Maybe I was confused. I know Dr. Lee passed away last fall. Please forgive the fog. I think my hyponess is flaring up since my surgery.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: Deborah son Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:40 AMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Dr Derry passed away? I had not heard that.

RE: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Thanks so very much Topper. I have already learned most of this, but am going to print this out and read it over and over till I get it. Three or four years ago, I was told I had a goiter and given $inthroid. (So, according to what you're saying, I was iodine deficient then. I didn't need thyroid supplementation, I needed iodine.) In Feb I was told I have hashi's. My diet has not changed so my iodine levels should be the same.If I was iodine deficient then, then I should be iodine deficient now.

The reason I am interested in iodine is b/c Dr. Derry says iodine prevents and perhaps even cures cancer so the rest of your body needs the iodine. But if you supplement with iodine, the thyroid is going to absorb all the iodine until it gets saturated. Only then can iodine go to other parts of the body. I guess this is why he treats (or I should say "treated" as he passed away last fall) breast cancer with a combination of iodine and Armour. But I think he was saying that most breast cancer victims have both thyroid issues and low iodine. I've got to go back and study his book some more. My foggy brain may be misinterpreting something.

All I know is I've got a lot to ask Dr. Milton. As I said, thank God, I'm finally getting to go see him. It has taken me six months to convince dh that neither I nor the docs around here are capable of handling this. I just want to get well and I don't want anymore problems with potentially cancerous lumps in my breast.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: topper2@... Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:21 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Debbie, I see that you do have Hashi's...

You're a bit puzzled.. I'll try to give you a bit of a different view, maybe it will be easier to understand.

Hashi's involves antibodies that attack they thyroid gland. Without going into a whole lot of detail.. they antibodies see the thyroid gland as a foreign body and attack it with the end goal of destroying it. It doesnt' go away... it will continue until the gland dies.

What varies between individuals is the level of the antibodies and how that level fluctuates.... For some the antibodies go high quickly and attack the gland mercilessly causing thyroid production to become greatly reduced. As the hormone level drops the antibody level drops and the gland recovers, but not completely... it's less efficient than it was before. It doesnt' work as well, part of it has died... The hormone level comes up after a while, how long that period of time is depends on the person. For some it's days, weeks, months, years..... for some the gland doesn't recover.. but doesn't really die.

Is it a little clearer how it works... Thyroid functions, antibodies decide to launch an attack, the thyroid production reduces, antibodies reduce, thyroid recovers partially, hormone production starts to increase, antibodies build and attack again.

This cycle continues until the gland dies. Or you do. Which ever comes first.

What makes it so hard is that it doesn't have the same cycle in everyone... as I said before... for some it days or weeks or months or years......

To add iodine increases the production of hormone, in the same way that the enlargement of the gland (a goiter) increases production of hormone. If part of the gland dies, the living parts can increase in size to attempt to increase hormone production to keep the body healthy.

Adding iodine, if you have Hashi's can increase hormone.... that can also trigger the production of antibodies.

It's a vicious cycle and hard to understand. I often consider myself the lucky one. I had RAI and my thyroid is dead. I didn't have an autoimmune disease (like Hashi's or Grave's) I have a TSH receptor defect, my body was unable to control the output of my gland... it just happened that mine stuck in low hyper for a couple of decades, then went into thyroid storm.

Treatment for Hashi's varies on the individual. is dealing with Hashi's she monitors her levels every three months through Health Check and adjusts her meds accordingly. Others choose to have surgery to remove the gland. Others add RAI to that to remove that part of the gland that remains and still causes problems. Others opt for RAI to totally destroy the gland and be done with it. It's an individual choice, based on your circumstance.

Tap into the experience of the other folks here that are dealing with Hashi's. Find out what symptoms they've had to deal with and their method of treatment... You may get a better grasp on what would be the better treatment for you....

Low grade hypo is horrid, I've been there... Low grade hyper is horrid, I've been there too.... severe hypo sucks, I've been there too. But, I still feel that of all the phases that I've been through, for all the years that I deal with each... Thyroid storm beats them all for being the most terrifying...

That is why I got so afraid when I read that you'd posted this morning that you wanted to try iodine therapy....

For someone that is hypo due to iodine deficiency.. I'm gonna venture to say that the most common symptom is goiter, the enlargement of the gland to force as much hormone production as possible. If the iodine intake is insufficient for adequate production the gland enlarges to allow it to filter ALL the iodine it possibly can from the blood to continue to produce more hormone.

See... when the cells of the body do the conversion of T4 to T3 it is done by pulling an iodine molecule off of a T4 molecule, leaving a T3 molecule and an iodine molecule behind.... in a body with adequate iodine intake, excess iodine is expelled from the body in the urine, in a body with insufficient intake, the gland enlarges, filtering everything it can from the blood to make more hormone.

The thyroid gland is so perfectly adept at filtering Iodine out of the blood that doctors found that the most efficient way to kill a thyroid gland was to give radioactive iodine (RAI) to the person. The thyroid gland filters most of it out of the blood and traps it within itself, the radiation then kills the gland... what's left of the radiation is then expelled from the body through body fluids (urine, sweat, fecal matter, body oil, tears, mucous and the moisture in the breath that is exhaled).

So far the medical technique is not advanced to the point where the entire thyroid gland can be removed. That is why there is always part left behind. Often the part that remains continues to function, but usually is not able to produce enough hormone to keep the person functioning in a healthy manner... they go hypo.

Its that same lack of technique that prevents thyroid gland transplant... They can't remove the gland intact AND most likely the body would see it as a foreign body and attack it anyway... leaving the person, in effect, with Hashi's.

I don't know if my attempt at explaining has helped.. but I hope that I've given you enough info to allow you to form questions to ask so that you can understand it better.

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:25:18 -0500 Debbie K writes:

I don't doubt that she has done her homework and I welcome all points of view. However, she could have said something like: "Do you have Hashimoto's. In my research and/or experience, I've found that those with hashi's ......." Regardless, I'm not mad, just stating my feelings. I hope or someone will explain further.

I am still wondering why iodine is bad for hashi's but not for one who is simply hypothyroid. Does the iodine make you go hyper? Does it make you more hypo? I have been told I'm hashi's, but have never had the hyper/hypo swings ya'll speak of. I'm just hypo all the time.

I have talked with a hypo patient whose doc prescribed iodine. She was up to 450mg Armour and was looking at being able to reduce the armour b/c her body was getting the iodine that it needed.

So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

I was thinking he did. But I cna't find anything concrete now. Maybe I was confused. I know Dr. Lee passed away last fall. Please forgive the fog. I think my hyponess is flaring up since my surgery.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: Deborah son Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:40 AMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Dr Derry passed away? I had not heard that.

RE: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Thanks so very much Topper. I have already learned most of this, but am going to print this out and read it over and over till I get it. Three or four years ago, I was told I had a goiter and given $inthroid. (So, according to what you're saying, I was iodine deficient then. I didn't need thyroid supplementation, I needed iodine.) In Feb I was told I have hashi's. My diet has not changed so my iodine levels should be the same.If I was iodine deficient then, then I should be iodine deficient now.

The reason I am interested in iodine is b/c Dr. Derry says iodine prevents and perhaps even cures cancer so the rest of your body needs the iodine. But if you supplement with iodine, the thyroid is going to absorb all the iodine until it gets saturated. Only then can iodine go to other parts of the body. I guess this is why he treats (or I should say "treated" as he passed away last fall) breast cancer with a combination of iodine and Armour. But I think he was saying that most breast cancer victims have both thyroid issues and low iodine. I've got to go back and study his book some more. My foggy brain may be misinterpreting something.

All I know is I've got a lot to ask Dr. Milton. As I said, thank God, I'm finally getting to go see him. It has taken me six months to convince dh that neither I nor the docs around here are capable of handling this. I just want to get well and I don't want anymore problems with potentially cancerous lumps in my breast.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: topper2@... Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:21 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: Lumpectomy_Lugol's Iodine

Debbie, I see that you do have Hashi's...

You're a bit puzzled.. I'll try to give you a bit of a different view, maybe it will be easier to understand.

Hashi's involves antibodies that attack they thyroid gland. Without going into a whole lot of detail.. they antibodies see the thyroid gland as a foreign body and attack it with the end goal of destroying it. It doesnt' go away... it will continue until the gland dies.

What varies between individuals is the level of the antibodies and how that level fluctuates.... For some the antibodies go high quickly and attack the gland mercilessly causing thyroid production to become greatly reduced. As the hormone level drops the antibody level drops and the gland recovers, but not completely... it's less efficient than it was before. It doesnt' work as well, part of it has died... The hormone level comes up after a while, how long that period of time is depends on the person. For some it's days, weeks, months, years..... for some the gland doesn't recover.. but doesn't really die.

Is it a little clearer how it works... Thyroid functions, antibodies decide to launch an attack, the thyroid production reduces, antibodies reduce, thyroid recovers partially, hormone production starts to increase, antibodies build and attack again.

This cycle continues until the gland dies. Or you do. Which ever comes first.

What makes it so hard is that it doesn't have the same cycle in everyone... as I said before... for some it days or weeks or months or years......

To add iodine increases the production of hormone, in the same way that the enlargement of the gland (a goiter) increases production of hormone. If part of the gland dies, the living parts can increase in size to attempt to increase hormone production to keep the body healthy.

Adding iodine, if you have Hashi's can increase hormone.... that can also trigger the production of antibodies.

It's a vicious cycle and hard to understand. I often consider myself the lucky one. I had RAI and my thyroid is dead. I didn't have an autoimmune disease (like Hashi's or Grave's) I have a TSH receptor defect, my body was unable to control the output of my gland... it just happened that mine stuck in low hyper for a couple of decades, then went into thyroid storm.

Treatment for Hashi's varies on the individual. is dealing with Hashi's she monitors her levels every three months through Health Check and adjusts her meds accordingly. Others choose to have surgery to remove the gland. Others add RAI to that to remove that part of the gland that remains and still causes problems. Others opt for RAI to totally destroy the gland and be done with it. It's an individual choice, based on your circumstance.

Tap into the experience of the other folks here that are dealing with Hashi's. Find out what symptoms they've had to deal with and their method of treatment... You may get a better grasp on what would be the better treatment for you....

Low grade hypo is horrid, I've been there... Low grade hyper is horrid, I've been there too.... severe hypo sucks, I've been there too. But, I still feel that of all the phases that I've been through, for all the years that I deal with each... Thyroid storm beats them all for being the most terrifying...

That is why I got so afraid when I read that you'd posted this morning that you wanted to try iodine therapy....

For someone that is hypo due to iodine deficiency.. I'm gonna venture to say that the most common symptom is goiter, the enlargement of the gland to force as much hormone production as possible. If the iodine intake is insufficient for adequate production the gland enlarges to allow it to filter ALL the iodine it possibly can from the blood to continue to produce more hormone.

See... when the cells of the body do the conversion of T4 to T3 it is done by pulling an iodine molecule off of a T4 molecule, leaving a T3 molecule and an iodine molecule behind.... in a body with adequate iodine intake, excess iodine is expelled from the body in the urine, in a body with insufficient intake, the gland enlarges, filtering everything it can from the blood to make more hormone.

The thyroid gland is so perfectly adept at filtering Iodine out of the blood that doctors found that the most efficient way to kill a thyroid gland was to give radioactive iodine (RAI) to the person. The thyroid gland filters most of it out of the blood and traps it within itself, the radiation then kills the gland... what's left of the radiation is then expelled from the body through body fluids (urine, sweat, fecal matter, body oil, tears, mucous and the moisture in the breath that is exhaled).

So far the medical technique is not advanced to the point where the entire thyroid gland can be removed. That is why there is always part left behind. Often the part that remains continues to function, but usually is not able to produce enough hormone to keep the person functioning in a healthy manner... they go hypo.

Its that same lack of technique that prevents thyroid gland transplant... They can't remove the gland intact AND most likely the body would see it as a foreign body and attack it anyway... leaving the person, in effect, with Hashi's.

I don't know if my attempt at explaining has helped.. but I hope that I've given you enough info to allow you to form questions to ask so that you can understand it better.

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:25:18 -0500 Debbie K writes:

I don't doubt that she has done her homework and I welcome all points of view. However, she could have said something like: "Do you have Hashimoto's. In my research and/or experience, I've found that those with hashi's ......." Regardless, I'm not mad, just stating my feelings. I hope or someone will explain further.

I am still wondering why iodine is bad for hashi's but not for one who is simply hypothyroid. Does the iodine make you go hyper? Does it make you more hypo? I have been told I'm hashi's, but have never had the hyper/hypo swings ya'll speak of. I'm just hypo all the time.

I have talked with a hypo patient whose doc prescribed iodine. She was up to 450mg Armour and was looking at being able to reduce the armour b/c her body was getting the iodine that it needed.

So many questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

I am keeping you in my thoughts, Debbie.

Jan

Debbie K wrote:

> Hi all!

> I've not had time for participating lately, but have been reading

> most posts. Just wanted to let you know I had the lumpectomy this

> am. Everything went fine and docs are still confident that it was not

> malignant. But, we won't know for sure until next tuesday. I'm a

> little light headed from the pain medicine, but other than that, all

> is well.

> I have just finished reading Dr. Derry;s book' " Breast Cancer &

> Iodine. " It has a whole section on thyroid. I will post a few quotes

> in a lter post. I am convinced that I want to take iodine

> supplement. Does anyone know where you can order Lugol's iodine? I

> know there are other sources, but I would like to at least start with

> this.

> Blessings,

> Debbie K.

>

> *

[Guest guest]

I am keeping you in my thoughts, Debbie.

Jan

Debbie K wrote:

> Hi all!

> I've not had time for participating lately, but have been reading

> most posts. Just wanted to let you know I had the lumpectomy this

> am. Everything went fine and docs are still confident that it was not

> malignant. But, we won't know for sure until next tuesday. I'm a

> little light headed from the pain medicine, but other than that, all

> is well.

> I have just finished reading Dr. Derry;s book' " Breast Cancer &

> Iodine. " It has a whole section on thyroid. I will post a few quotes

> in a lter post. I am convinced that I want to take iodine

> supplement. Does anyone know where you can order Lugol's iodine? I

> know there are other sources, but I would like to at least start with

> this.

> Blessings,

> Debbie K.

>

> *