RE: Can you educate me please?: LARD

[Guest guest]

,

Valid questions. You didn't mention organs. Is there a reason for this?

Fat has lots of calories, so 70% would not be as much as one might think.

If one eats really low carb, then there aren't that many calories in super

low-carb leafy greens, for instance, so they need to be getting calories

from somewhere, and fat is very high (and healthy) energy food. I hope this

sheds some light on this subject.

Check this out from WAPF site.

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.html

Dean

____________________________________________________________________________

________________

OK, so in my readings and following your board, I'm pretty convinced that

the fat from healthy meat is not a detriment to health, at least in normal

usual amounts and when not leading to obesity.

BUT I don't yet understand what exactly are people looking for in consuming

great amounts of animal fats?? I believe I get enough A & D from carotene, the

sun, fish oil, and a little supplementation. What else is it that people are

looking for??

I know of a few people that have gone to something like 60 to 70% of their

diets in fats; mostly saturated. What are they trying to do?? I realize this

isn't the majority but isn't there any emphasis on other aspects of

nutrition? such as vitamin C, omega-3s, anti-oxidants, and fiber?

As an aside to animal fat consumption, we believe that the reason everyone's

needing to take chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine (cartilage, basically)

is that only the flesh (and fat) of meat is usually eaten. If one boils the

bones, the entire meat portions, the cartilage eventually dissolves into the

water and this is the great nutrition needed to keep joints healthy. Great

things come from the marrow as well. And, raw consumption doesn't give acces

to these. Does anyone believe in this?

Respectfully, linda

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link. Good read. I wish to find out if the vitamin C thing

has been confirmed by researchers. Well, I suppose that since animals make

their own C it must be made somewhere, or maybe even stored, although that’s

another question as to whether animals can store it.

I wonder how milk made it’s way into the WAP native adult diet?

I guess it was another thread where you asked me why I didn’t mention organ

meats. It’s just a whole–nother converstion to me. We fear the concentration

of toxins in the liver and don’t know enough about how “clean” organic liver

might be. We eat a little of it. I’m worried about the hormones in liver and

some of the other organs as well and just have not read enough about them to

make decisions that I’m comfortable with either way.

linda

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Dean

Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:10 PM

Subject: RE: Can you educate me please?: LARD

,

Valid questions. You didn't mention organs. Is there a reason for this?

Fat has lots of calories, so 70% would not be as much as one might think.

If one eats really low carb, then there aren't that many calories in super

low-carb leafy greens, for instance, so they need to be getting calories

from somewhere, and fat is very high (and healthy) energy food. I hope this

sheds some light on this subject.

Check this out from WAPF site.

HYPERLINK

" http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.html " http://

www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.html

Dean

____________________________________________________________________________

________________

OK, so in my readings and following your board, I'm pretty convinced that

the fat from healthy meat is not a detriment to health, at least in normal

usual amounts and when not leading to obesity.

BUT I don't yet understand what exactly are people looking for in consuming

great amounts of animal fats?? I believe I get enough A & D from carotene, the

sun, fish oil, and a little supplementation. What else is it that people are

looking for??

I know of a few people that have gone to something like 60 to 70% of their

diets in fats; mostly saturated. What are they trying to do?? I realize this

isn't the majority but isn't there any emphasis on other aspects of

nutrition? such as vitamin C, omega-3s, anti-oxidants, and fiber?

As an aside to animal fat consumption, we believe that the reason everyone's

needing to take chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine (cartilage, basically)

is that only the flesh (and fat) of meat is usually eaten. If one boils the

bones, the entire meat portions, the cartilage eventually dissolves into the

water and this is the great nutrition needed to keep joints healthy. Great

things come from the marrow as well. And, raw consumption doesn't give acces

to these. Does anyone believe in this?

Respectfully, linda

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[Guest guest]

I get free-range bison and will eat these livers, but no factory-farmed

organs.

----------------------------------

I guess it was another thread where you asked me why I didn't mention organ

meats. It's just a whole-nother converstion to me. We fear the concentration

of toxins in the liver and don't know enough about how " clean " organic liver

might be. We eat a little of it. I'm worried about the hormones in liver and

some of the other organs as well and just have not read enough about them to

make decisions that I'm comfortable with either way.

linda

[Guest guest]

---

Dean, What are free-range bison? Dennis

In , " Dean " <dean@...> wrote:

>

>

> I get free-range bison and will eat these livers, but no factory-

farmed

> organs.

>

> ----------------------------------

>

> I guess it was another thread where you asked me why I didn't

mention organ

> meats. It's just a whole-nother converstion to me. We fear the

concentration

> of toxins in the liver and don't know enough about how " clean "

organic liver

> might be. We eat a little of it. I'm worried about the hormones in

liver and

> some of the other organs as well and just have not read enough

about them to

> make decisions that I'm comfortable with either way.

>

> linda

>

[Guest guest]

There was a thread on this list sometime during the year 2005 - sorry can't

be more precise. Sally Fallon/WAP created an article for their publication

explaining why liver does NOT store toxins and IS critical to good health -

basically, they blew apart the myths that you have laid out in your post.

Someone on this list quoted the article so you'll be able to find it if you

do an onibasu.com search.

And, once again, it would be greatly appreciated if you would trim your

posts.

Sharon, NH

I guess it was another thread where you asked me why I didn't mention organ

> meats. It's just a whole–nother converstion to me. We fear the

> concentration

> of toxins in the liver and don't know enough about how " clean " organic

> liver

> might be. We eat a little of it. I'm worried about the hormones in liver

> and

> some of the other organs as well and just have not read enough about them

> to

> make decisions that I'm comfortable with either way.

> inda

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this. I'll look for livers in the archives.

I do trim my posts. has an error that turns their ad at the bottom,

and any other html, into source-code. It doesn't happen to me on any other

lists so I assume it's this board, not my computer. I keep what I'm replying

to so others can follow the thread...

Re: Can you educate me please?: LARD

There was a thread on this list sometime during the year 2005 - sorry can't

be more precise. Sally Fallon/WAP created an article for their publication

explaining why liver does NOT store toxins and IS critical to good health -

basically, they blew apart the myths that you have laid out in your post.

Someone on this list quoted the article so you'll be able to find it if you

do an onibasu.com search.

And, once again, it would be greatly appreciated if you would trim your

posts.

Sharon, NH

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[Guest guest]

,

I tried the high fat diet but couldn't keep it up. What they're

looking for is to switch their metabolism from burning carbs to

burning fats, as there is some evidence that this is what our

ancestors did. It also gives a nice rest to the pancreas from

having to make so much insulin. I've heard switching to fat for

calories gives you lots of energy and endurance, which I've

experienced myself when I manage it.

As far as the cartilage, Sally or have a couple of very good

articles on the health benefits of broth. Look up " Broth is

Beautiful " on www.westonaprice.org.

My growing concern with broth, tho is that the bones seem to build

up fluoride to very high amounts. The bones from cattle now have

about 1000 ppm fluoride. 50% of the fluoride consumed winds up in

the bones. It's because of fluoride in irrigation water, drinking

water for the livestock, and fluoride residues from pesticides and

fumigants on the feed. Like any other mineral, for best health we

only need trace amounts, and too much can be toxic.

> As an aside to animal fat consumption, we believe that the reason

everyone's

> needing to take chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine (cartilage,

basically)

> is that only the flesh (and fat) of meat is usually eaten. If one

boils the

> bones, the entire meat portions, the cartilage eventually

dissolves into the

> water and this is the great nutrition needed to keep joints

healthy. Great

> things come from the marrow as well. And, raw consumption doesn't

give acces

> to these. Does anyone believe in this?

>

>

>

> Respectfully, linda

>

[Guest guest]

Oh boy, I didn’t know about the fluoride in bones thing. What if we boilded

the joints and not the bones? I wonder if supplements (the cartilage ones)

are suspect as well? I guess not many calcium supps come from bones.

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of haecklers

Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:00 AM

Subject: Re: Can you educate me please?: LARD

,

I tried the high fat diet but couldn't keep it up. What they're

looking for is to switch their metabolism from burning carbs to

burning fats, as there is some evidence that this is what our

ancestors did. It also gives a nice rest to the pancreas from

having to make so much insulin. I've heard switching to fat for

calories gives you lots of energy and endurance, which I've

experienced myself when I manage it.

As far as the cartilage, Sally or have a couple of very good

articles on the health benefits of broth. Look up " Broth is

Beautiful " on www.westonaprice.org.

My growing concern with broth, tho is that the bones seem to build

up fluoride to very high amounts. The bones from cattle now have

about 1000 ppm fluoride. 50% of the fluoride consumed winds up in

the bones. It's because of fluoride in irrigation water, drinking

water for the livestock, and fluoride residues from pesticides and

fumigants on the feed. Like any other mineral, for best health we

only need trace amounts, and too much can be toxic.

> As an aside to animal fat consumption, we believe that the reason

everyone's

> needing to take chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine (cartilage,

basically)

> is that only the flesh (and fat) of meat is usually eaten. If one

boils the

> bones, the entire meat portions, the cartilage eventually

dissolves into the

> water and this is the great nutrition needed to keep joints

healthy. Great

> things come from the marrow as well. And, raw consumption doesn't

give acces

> to these. Does anyone believe in this?

>

>

>

> Respectfully, linda

>

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<UL>

<LI><B><A HREF= " HYPERLINK

" / " http://health.groups

../group/ / " >NATIVE NUTRITION</A></B> online</LI>

<LI><B><A HREF= " HYPERLINK

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[Guest guest]

Most of us who make broth via the recommendations of WAP usually only use

organic grass fed beef. This means you would really reduce if not eliminate

the fluoride because you are not giving them feed only grass/hay etc. and if

they are on clean fields with no pesticides again you eliminate

a lot of those problems. It gets harder and harder to get clean food in

our contaminated world but you have to do the best you can and the good in

those foods should hopefully outweigh some of the negative.

Allyn

RE: Re: Can you educate me please?: LARD

Oh boy, I didn't know about the fluoride in bones thing. What if we boilded

the joints and not the bones? I wonder if supplements (the cartilage ones)

are suspect as well? I guess not many calcium supps come from bones.

[Guest guest]

> I wonder how milk made it's way into the WAP native adult diet?

In Weston Price's book, he found that some traditional cultures,

especially the Swiss and the Masai in Africa, consumed dairy as a

large part of their diet -- raw and pastured, often fermented.

Because these days it isn't easy or necessarily yummy to eat the

insects and intestines that many traditional cultures did or do eat,

raw milk offers the same type of nutrition and is traditional to parts

of Europe -- and many Americans are of European descent.

From the " Real Milk " website:

" The Swiss of the Loetschental Valley were one of the few native

groups Weston Price studied that used milk. (The others were certain

African tribes, including the Masai.) The Swiss valley-dwellers used

raw whole milk, both fresh and cultured, cheese and butter, all in

substantial quantities. The milk was from healthy, grass-fed animals

and was used unpasteurized and unhomogenized. Such foods clearly can

play a major role in a health-building program for the individual

genetically enabled to utilize these foods well. They are a rich

source of fat-soluble vitamins A and D and other crucial nutrients in

short supply in diets lacking in high quality animal fats. (Contrary

to popular opinion, liberal amounts of animal fats, particularly from

grass-fed animals, are essential for good health and resistance to

disease.) "

Ann

[Guest guest]

OK, that’s all sane... and they do recognize that it’s a new food (maybe

2000 years?) and for Northern European Descent bodies whose bodies

“transformed” for consumption over those millennia. I appreciate all your

short-cuts to information, as I was sent to some pages in the past (not from

this board) that had no science to them and thus lost my ambition to read

this stuff any further.

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of annbekins

Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:07 PM

Subject: Re: Can you educate me please?: LARD

> I wonder how milk made it's way into the WAP native adult diet?

In Weston Price's book, he found that some traditional cultures,

especially the Swiss and the Masai in Africa, consumed dairy as a

large part of their diet -- raw and pastured, often fermented.

Because these days it isn't easy or necessarily yummy to eat the

insects and intestines that many traditional cultures did or do eat,

raw milk offers the same type of nutrition and is traditional to parts

of Europe -- and many Americans are of European descent.

_____

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[Guest guest]

Please try to start some type of coop arrangement in your area. That way

you can purchase animals in bulk, and divide up the meat based on the

weight, or whatever. Check here for sources in your area.

http://www.eatwild.com/products/index.html <http://www.eatwild.com/>

These farmers need our support. And, farmers markets are a great idea too.

_____

Most of us who make broth via the recommendations of WAP usually only use

organic grass fed beef. This means you would really reduce if not eliminate

the fluoride because you are not giving them feed only grass/hay etc. and if

they are on clean fields with no pesticides again you eliminate

a lot of those problems. It gets harder and harder to get clean food in

our contaminated world but you have to do the best you can and the good in

those foods should hopefully outweigh some of the negative.

Allyn

[Guest guest]

, for some it has been 9,000 years since dairy was used. For others it

has been never.

----------------------

OK, that's all sane... and they do recognize that it's a new food (maybe

2000 years?) and for Northern European Descent bodies whose bodies

" transformed " for consumption over those millennia. I appreciate all your

short-cuts to information, as I was sent to some pages in the past (not from

this board) that had no science to them and thus lost my ambition to read

this stuff any further.

[Guest guest]

Wow, that long!!

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Dean

Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:19 PM

Subject: RE: Can you educate me please?: LARD

, for some it has been 9,000 years since dairy was used. For others it

has been never.

_____

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[Guest guest]

That is not really " that long " . It takes like 30 or 40 thousand years to

modify genetic makeup by like 0.001% or something. I for one play it safe

and try and eat as paleo as possible, and am getting closer all the time to

that sort of diet.

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of F. Palmer

Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:22 PM

Subject: RE: Can you educate me please?: LARD

Wow, that long!!

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Dean

Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:19 PM

Subject: RE: Can you educate me please?: LARD

, for some it has been 9,000 years since dairy was used. For others it

has been never.

_____

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[Guest guest]

Are the grass fed, grass finished beef ok?

On Feb 16, 2006, at 1:38 PM, Palmer wrote:

> Oh boy, I didn’t know about the fluoride in bones thing. What if we

> boilded

> the joints and not the bones? I wonder if supplements (the cartilage

> ones)

> are suspect as well? I guess not many calcium supps come from bones.

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

I saw it somewhere as well. The explanation was that the liver does work

to remove toxins, but then it passes them on. They do not REMAIN in the

liver. Sort of like the vacuum cleaner bag collecting the dust, but it is

thrown away and the vacuum cleaner is just fine.

<<There was a thread on this list sometime during the year 2005 - sorry

can't

be more precise. Sally Fallon/WAP created an article for their publication

explaining why liver does NOT store toxins and IS critical to good health -

basically, they blew apart the myths that you have laid out in your post.

Someone on this list quoted the article so you'll be able to find it if you

do an onibasu.com search.

And, once again, it would be greatly appreciated if you would trim your

posts.

Sharon, NH

[Guest guest]

You are right, the liver is a filter for toxins.

RE: Can you educate me please?: LARD

I saw it somewhere as well. The explanation was that the liver does work

to remove toxins, but then it passes them on. They do not REMAIN in the

liver. Sort of like the vacuum cleaner bag collecting the dust, but it is

thrown away and the vacuum cleaner is just fine.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I know that if you get enough calcium, magnesium, and iodine

it's not as risky as they protect against fluoride damage, but it's

hard to tell if you're getting enough iodine. Synthroid, a thyroid

replacement medication, is one of the top ten sellers in the US &

some say it's because of the damage to the thyroid from fluoride,

the thyroid takes in fluoride when iodine is lacking but can't use

it.

> > As an aside to animal fat consumption, we believe that the

reason

> everyone's

> > needing to take chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine (cartilage,

> basically)

> > is that only the flesh (and fat) of meat is usually eaten. If

one

> boils the

> > bones, the entire meat portions, the cartilage eventually

> dissolves into the

> > water and this is the great nutrition needed to keep joints

> healthy. Great

> > things come from the marrow as well. And, raw consumption

doesn't

> give acces

> > to these. Does anyone believe in this?

> >

> >

> >

> > Respectfully, linda

> >

>

>

>

>

>

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Transitional//EN "

> " HYPERLINK

> " http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-

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> R/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd " ><BODY><FONT FACE= " monospace "

SIZE= " 3 " >

> <B>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES</B>

> <UL>

> <LI><B><A HREF= " HYPERLINK

> " native-

nutrition/ " http://health.groups

> ./group/ / " >NATIVE NUTRITION</A></B>

online</LI>

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> archive with Onibasu</LI>

> </UL></FONT>

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OWNER:</A></B>

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>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dean-

>That is not really " that long " . It takes like 30 or 40 thousand years to

>modify genetic makeup by like 0.001% or something.

Not so. Rates of evolution vary wildly. I remember reading about a

particular place and time in which a throng of new species developed

in about 12,000 years! I believe it was an example given by

Jay Gould in support of his goofy punctuated equilibrium theory, but

that's beside the point.

-

[Guest guest]

Renata-

>I tried the high fat diet but couldn't keep it up.

How come? And did you make the transition gradually or abruptly?

-

[Guest guest]

Okay, I have to speak up, now that someone else has disagreed! :-) I'm

agreeing with the disagree-er.

I have read that we Northern Europeans have a harder time digesting grains

than Mediterraneans because grain was domesticated there about 6,000 years

ago (11,000 in the Nile valley and Mesopotamia). So the Mediterraneans

started eating a lot of carbs 4,000 years earlier than the peoples of

Northern Europe. That extra 4,000 years supposedly makes the Italians

digest pasta just fine, whereas a good German girl like me might have some

trouble with the Mediterranean diet. So that difference of only 4,000 years

has some effect on our digestive systems. That's a pretty short time in

terms of evolution. Yeah, I know, we like our bread, but we do eat a great

deal of meat to go with it.

Dean-

>That is not really " that long " . It takes like 30 or 40 thousand years to

>modify genetic makeup by like 0.001% or something.

Not so. Rates of evolution vary wildly. I remember reading about a

particular place and time in which a throng of new species developed

in about 12,000 years! I believe it was an example given by

Jay Gould in support of his goofy punctuated equilibrium theory, but

that's beside the point.

-

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[Guest guest]

And we’re not looking for a new species, only a gene or two. When small pox

went around and killed some “large” percentage of the population then

suddenly the genetics of the population was changed to those who have more

resistant genes. When a certain body-type is in style (say large breasts,

tall & dark, or twiggy-look) then breeding goes in that direction. These are

not large over-hauls as they are short-lived events, but they are examples

of rapid changes in population genetic make-up. Among those migrating

further and further north, where milk was needed as a dietary mainstay,

those who became ill from drinking milk did not live to pass on their genes.

“Suddenly” you’re left with a whole population with

lactase-persistent-genes. linda

Not so. Rates of evolution vary wildly.

-

_____

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[Guest guest]

For about 10 years I was a vegetarian, and I guess my tastes and

cooking ability run toward the vegetable/grain way of eating still.

It's hard to think of appetizing things every day where the calories

come from fats. Not that I've quit trying, I still have plenty of raw

milk, butter, etc... and more fatty meats than before. But at 1:30 in

the afternoon when I suddenly realize I haven't eaten lunch and I'm

hungry, the fatty things seem to need more preparation than a slice of

sourdough with marmalade and some carrot sticks. - Renate

--- In , Idol <Idol@...>

wrote:

>

> Renata-

>

> >I tried the high fat diet but couldn't keep it up.

>

> How come? And did you make the transition gradually or abruptly?

>

>

>

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

A slice of sourdough bread with butter and peanut butter . . .

Renata writes: But at 1:30 in the afternoon when I suddenly realize I

haven't eaten lunch and I'm hungry, the fatty things seem to need more

preparation than a slice of sourdough with marmalade and some carrot sticks.

- Renate

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