Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 On 9/10/06, Brown <brobab@...> wrote: > This is not meant to be a proof or disproof of evolution, but this is > an interesting commentary on western society's tendency to reject > traditional knowledge based on evolutionary paradigm. Interestingly unreal. > " There is thus an inescapable disrespect for cultures of the past, and > inherent though subtle denigration of our present state, and a desire > to get where we are going so we can finally be of worth, finally be > evolved, that affects nearly all Western perspectives. This Western > acceptance of the truth of evolutionary theory inevitably leads to its > application in the human cultural realm. So the concept of " progress " began after the mainstream acceptance of evolutionary theory? What about the development of stratified society, subjugation, technological advancement, and refinement of food that all occurred before the acceptance of evolution? > At its worst it becomes > culturally sanctioned ethnocentrism or racism. As a result, any > knowledge of the universe gleaned by our forefathers that comes from > systems of information other than the universe-as-machine model is > routinely ascribed to our ancestors' lack of evolution and summarily > dismissed and discredited " (Sacred and Healing Herbal Beers, > Harrod Buhner, p. 6,7). On the other hand, Price reported one group who had a creation myth wherein the white man was created last, following the creation of the pig. The racist Christian Identity religion found in the South among Klansmen holds that God created humans, but that Eve had sex with the serpent to produce one race they despise and had sex with monkeys to create another. Whites subjugated blacks in slavery in America for a great length of time before evolution became accepted, in large part based on the notion that Africans were cursed by Noah because their forefather, Ham, got his father drunk had sex with his mother. The Abolitionist and Civil Rights movements were also based on Christian theory, showing that Christianity is not itself to blame. The Abolitionist movement preceded the ainstream acceptacne of evolution and the Civil Rights movement was subsequent to it. Multiculturalism, criticized by many to practice an excessive degree of cultural and moral relativism, proliferated in the same universities to which you attribute the proliferation of evolutionary theory. I don't see the relationship the author is suggesting. > Of course, now we are playing catch up to discover truths of healing > and health that preceded western society's headlong acceptance of > Darwinism and other forms of cultural supremacy. Evolution teaches the relatedness of all living things and the superiority of each existing species over those that do not exist based on its ability to fulfill a niche in the grand ecology of the biosphere that has trillions of such niches. When there are as many positions of prestige as those willing to fill them in a society, anthropologists call the society egalitarian. Similarly, the evolutionary view of the biosphere sees an egalitarian ecology. Chris -- The Truth About Cholesterol Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 There are many other interpretations of evolution, others which are not so egalitarian, which are used to drive and rationalized massive exploitation of the environment and humanity, from Marxism, to Maoism to American-style Darwinistic industrialism. Social Darwinism, especially, makes rationalization of exploitation more efficient. Just what was lacking in Southern racism. > Evolution teaches the relatedness of all living things and the > superiority of each existing species over those that do not exist > based on its ability to fulfill a niche in the grand ecology of the > biosphere that has trillions of such niches. When there are as many > positions of prestige as those willing to fill them in a society, > anthropologists call the society egalitarian. Similarly, the > evolutionary view of the biosphere sees an egalitarian ecology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 On 9/11/06, Brown <brobab@...> wrote: > There are many other interpretations of evolution, others which are > not so egalitarian, which are used to drive and rationalized massive > exploitation of the environment and humanity, from Marxism, to Maoism > to American-style Darwinistic industrialism. Social Darwinism, > especially, makes rationalization of exploitation more efficient. Just > what was lacking in Southern racism. And there are many interpretations of Christianity, but most sensible people would not attribute slavery to Christianity because one interpretation of the latter has been used to justify the former. A more reasonable interpretation would be that people who wish to subjugate and exploit other people will use the language de jour to express their justification for this subjugation and exploitation. In most cases, rational and disinterested observers would recognize that these people are exploiting the language, paradigms and theories they are using in the same way they are exploiting people. A rational and disinterested observer would attribute wrongfulness to the subjugation and exploitation rather than the language, paradigms and theories they are distorting. Someone who has a commitment to proving a certain idea is evil, however, would blame the idea. Chris -- The Truth About Cholesterol Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 And how would a person determine wrongfulness by evolutionary philosophy? You mentioned egalitarian, which is just what was being proposed my Marxists who massacred and enslaved far beyond the Racist Nazis or the Racist Southerners. How does an egalitarian philosophy breed such massive oppression as their philosophy of choice? Marxists could have chosen something like Buddhism or Confuciusism or Animism, but the vary nature of evolutionary thinking seemed right for them. Marxists chose a philosophy suitable to their desires, a new philosophy not bound by previous conceptions, and justified by science. Evolutionism became a perfect philosophy for mass torture, forced labor, and random executions, and I dare say I expect more of the same from a philosophy that has in its very nature to call mindsets that came before it irrelevant to reality and to promote a vast web of unobservable events as undeniable facts. On 9/11/06, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote: > On 9/11/06, Brown <brobab@...> wrote: > > There are many other interpretations of evolution, others which are > > not so egalitarian, which are used to drive and rationalized massive > > exploitation of the environment and humanity, from Marxism, to Maoism > > to American-style Darwinistic industrialism. Social Darwinism, > > especially, makes rationalization of exploitation more efficient. Just > > what was lacking in Southern racism. > > And there are many interpretations of Christianity, but most sensible > people would not attribute slavery to Christianity because one > interpretation of the latter has been used to justify the former. A > more reasonable interpretation would be that people who wish to > subjugate and exploit other people will use the language de jour to > express their justification for this subjugation and exploitation. > > In most cases, rational and disinterested observers would recognize > that these people are exploiting the language, paradigms and theories > they are using in the same way they are exploiting people. A rational > and disinterested observer would attribute wrongfulness to the > subjugation and exploitation rather than the language, paradigms and > theories they are distorting. > > Someone who has a commitment to proving a certain idea is evil, > however, would blame the idea. > > Chris > -- > The Truth About Cholesterol > Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: > http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com > > > <HTML><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN " " http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd " ><BODY><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " > > <B>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES</B> > <UL> > <LI><B><A HREF= " / " >NATIVE NUTRITION</A></B> online</LI> > <LI><B><A HREF= " http://onibasu.com/ " >SEARCH</A></B> the entire message archive with Onibasu</LI> > </UL></FONT> > <PRE><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " ><B><A HREF= " mailto: -owner " >LIST OWNER:</A></B> Idol > <B>MODERATOR:</B> Wanita Sears > </FONT></PRE> > </BODY> > </HTML> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 , > And how would a person determine wrongfulness by evolutionary > philosophy? Evolution is not a philosophy. People cannot determine wrongfulness by using a scientific description of the mechanisms by which different forms of life come into being, persist and vary. Instead, people who believe in evolution, like those who believe in creationism, derive their ethical systems from religion or philosophy. > You mentioned egalitarian, which is just what was being > proposed my Marxists who massacred and enslaved far beyond the Racist > Nazis or the Racist Southerners. I think you actually mean Stalinists. In any case, I specifically defined egalitarian to mean that there are as many positions of prestige as there are people capable of filling them. Stalinism had very few positions of prestige and those who occupied them were vulnerable to being purged and murdered if they were an obstacle to Stalin who occupied the singularly and uniquely highest position of prestige. Thus, however Stalin may have twisted egalitarianism, Marxism and Leninism to fit his plan of mass murder, the Soviet Union was in no way whatsoever an egalitarian society. Regardless, I didn't say anything about evolution leading to egalitarian political philosophy. I said that evolution reveals the biosphere to be an egalitarian ecology. How on earth you were able to produce a justification of murderousness or state socialism out of this defies my powers of comprehension. What I was saying was that the implication of evolutionary theory is that individuals and populations (both -- not all evolutionary mechanisms are competitive) are well adapted and selected for when they are able to fulfill their niche. Since there is a niche within the biosphere for each species and sub-species and any other taxa, each of these are considered " superior " whether these are bacteria, insects or humans. This type of superiority is not moral or spiritual because that is not biology's domain. It is a physical superiority, and every species posesses it by virtue of its having evolved to fulfill its niche. This is ANALOGOUS to the distribution of positions of prestige in societies that anthropologists DESCRIBE as egalitarian. It has nothing to do with the advocation of any type of political philosophy whatsoever. > How does an egalitarian philosophy > breed such massive oppression as their philosophy of choice? Considering that the Apostles set up a communist society in Jerusalem wherein each person is said by Luke in Acts to have given all he owns according to his ability which was redistributed to each person according to his need -- that's right, Marx got the phrase directly from the Bible -- and considering that the Apostles were neither official atheists nor murderers of religious people, I am going to guess that it has something to do with murderers distorting egalitarian philosophy to support their own murderous intentions rather than anything inherently murderous about egalitarian philosophy. > Marxists > could have chosen something like Buddhism or Confuciusism or Animism, And the Apostles could have chosen something like industrial capitalism... > but the vary nature of evolutionary thinking seemed right for them. Wait a second -- was it egalitarianism, atheism, or evolutionism that fueled their murderous intentions? I'm totally lost. > Marxists chose a philosophy suitable to their desires, a new > philosophy not bound by previous conceptions, and justified by > science. Funny how America accpeted evolutionism lock, stock and barrel and found its unique place in the world to be solely defined by opposition to the Soviet Union and waged both hot and cold war against it until it came to its own destruction. I guess evolution naturally produces capitalism and state socialism. This is getting a little incoherent. > Evolutionism became a perfect philosophy for mass torture, > forced labor, and random executions, and I dare say I expect more of > the same from a philosophy that has in its very nature to call > mindsets that came before it irrelevant to reality and to promote a > vast web of unobservable events as undeniable facts. Yes, after all, the theory that no life can be created newly and must come from previous life and is limited to what can be produced by modifying that previous life so clearly renders any consideration of the past irrelevant. That's why evolutionists never look at the fossil record. Chris -- The Truth About Cholesterol Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 - >There are many other interpretations of evolution, others which are >not so egalitarian, which are used to drive and rationalized massive >exploitation of the environment and humanity, from Marxism, to Maoism >to American-style Darwinistic industrialism. Social Darwinism, >especially, makes rationalization of exploitation more efficient. Just >what was lacking in Southern racism. An " interpretation " of evolution clearly isn't necessarily at all similar to evolution itself. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 On 9/12/06, Idol <Idol@...> wrote: > >There are many other interpretations of evolution, others which are > >not so egalitarian, which are used to drive and rationalized massive > >exploitation of the environment and humanity, from Marxism, to Maoism > >to American-style Darwinistic industrialism. Social Darwinism, > >especially, makes rationalization of exploitation more efficient. Just > >what was lacking in Southern racism. > An " interpretation " of evolution clearly isn't necessarily at all > similar to evolution itself. An interpretation of history isn't necessarily the same as what actually happened either. The fundamental problem with seeing " Social Darwinism " as somehow derivative of biological evolutionary theory is that it preceded actual biological Darwinism. Darwin drew on the social/economic theory of Malthus as expressed in _On Population_ written in the 18th century. What is today called " Social Darwinism " has nothing whatsoever to do with Darwin and is more appropriately called Malthusianism in my opinion. It makes no sense to assert that it is derived from Darwinism when the idea was around long before Darwin. Chirs -- The Truth About Cholesterol Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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