Re: Was Price biased and did he miss something significant?

[Guest guest]

I don't know if Price was a Methodist but he may well have been prejudiced

against alcohol. Most churches used to preach extensively against it though

I don't think very many do now. I am prejudiced against the stuff so if

Price missed something because of that, I probably would have also. You may

very well be correct.

>I've been reading the book " Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers " now and

>it's making me wonder if Weston A. Price missed something in his

>studies of what the native people ate, which is what they drank. He

>was a Methodist, right? So am I, and in the Methodist church, while

>they don't actively preach against drinking (anymore?) they won't

>allow you to serve alcohol on church property, not even for wedding

>receptions. It makes me wonder if Dr. Price had an unconscious bias

>agains alcoholic beverages.

>

>The heather beer in Scotland/Ireland was credited with many

>healthful virtues, as were almost all forms of fermented honey

>(which contained propolis, royal jelly, pollen, and some venom,

>since they used to boil the whole hive to get at the honey). I'm

>finding out that many of the old " beers " had all kinds of herbs

>added for flavor and medicinal value, such as ginger wherever it was

>available, and mugwort, spruce, pine (sources of huge amounts of

>vitamin C), sage, nettles, burdock, dandelion, juniper, yarrow, and

>on and on.

>

>I find it interesting that many of the essential oils in herbs don't

>dissolve as well in water as in alcohol, making tea a weak form of

>them. The author of the book, Buhner, theorizes that a lot

>of the traditional cures were altered because of prohibition and the

>protestant reforms against alcohol and other inebrients. In fact,

>the reason hops was allowed in beer was because it makes one sleepy,

>and " if one has to get drunk, better to be a sleeping drunk " was

>their philosophy.

>

>It boggles my mind that the herbs we take weakly in teas or small

>amounts of tinctures, they were drinking mugfuls of on a daily

>basis. And perhaps rightly so claiming they owed their good health

>to the beverages.

>

>Then the question for me: can I overcome my Methodist upbringing and

>learn to like any of these? LOL!

[Guest guest]

So am I, and in the Methodist church, while

> they don't actively preach against drinking (anymore?) they won't

> allow you to serve alcohol on church property, not even for wedding

> receptions. It makes me wonder if Dr. Price had an unconscious bias

> agains alcoholic beverages.

In NAPD,Dr. Price commended the sailors in a ish fishing village

for not drinking and observing the Sabbath. But then he spoke of the

Swiss village of Visperterminen and the vineyards the people kept,

which were the highest (altitude) vineyards of Europe at that time.

On page 30 of the book he states, " The vineyards afforded them the

additional nutrition of wine and of fruit minerals and vitamins which

the two groups we studied at Loetschental and Grachen did not have. " I

don't think that this demonsatrates bias against alcohol, since he

talks about wine nutrition; but I have not read any of his other

works. Maybe he was against distilled liquor. It might be noteworthy

that the Swiss were Catholics, so Sacramental wine would have been

consumed by most. Protestants tend to abstain from alcohol, or did,

or something. Do all Methodists use juice in their Communion?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Don't you wish he was around still to talk to?

--- In , " yoginidd " <WAPFbaby@...>

wrote:

>

> So am I, and in the Methodist church, while

> > they don't actively preach against drinking (anymore?) they

won't

> > allow you to serve alcohol on church property, not even for

wedding

> > receptions. It makes me wonder if Dr. Price had an unconscious

bias

> > agains alcoholic beverages.

>

> In NAPD,Dr. Price commended the sailors in a ish fishing

village

> for not drinking and observing the Sabbath. But then he spoke of

the

> Swiss village of Visperterminen and the vineyards the people kept,

> which were the highest (altitude) vineyards of Europe at that

time.

> On page 30 of the book he states, " The vineyards afforded them the

> additional nutrition of wine and of fruit minerals and vitamins

which

> the two groups we studied at Loetschental and Grachen did not

have. " I

> don't think that this demonsatrates bias against alcohol, since he

> talks about wine nutrition; but I have not read any of his other

> works. Maybe he was against distilled liquor. It might be

noteworthy

> that the Swiss were Catholics, so Sacramental wine would have been

> consumed by most. Protestants tend to abstain from alcohol, or

did,

> or something. Do all Methodists use juice in their Communion?

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

On 9/3/06, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote:

> I've been reading the book " Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers " now and

> it's making me wonder if Weston A. Price missed something in his

> studies of what the native people ate, which is what they drank. He

> was a Methodist, right? So am I, and in the Methodist church, while

> they don't actively preach against drinking (anymore?) they won't

> allow you to serve alcohol on church property, not even for wedding

> receptions. It makes me wonder if Dr. Price had an unconscious bias

> agains alcoholic beverages.

There certainly isn't much talk about alcoholic brews in NAPD (though

there is some), and since alcoholic beverages of some sort have been a

part of nearly every traditional society imaginable, it would be hard

to imagine that Price's " primitives " didn't partake of the fruit of

the vine themselves.

On the other hand, I do think there is a subtle bias against alcoholic

beverages in WAPF. You read Nourishing Traditions and you can

certainly come away with that idea, whether or not it is correct. And

if I was running the WAPF convention you better believe there would be

a cash bar available offering fine wines and beers from around the

world :-) I think this also extends to stimulants as well. And God

forbid we should mention tobacco, but Sally had a suprisingly tolerant

and sympathetic attitude toward smokers when the subject came up on

the Chapter Leaders list.

In all fairness I think the problem is that the " health world "

believes that alcohol, stimulants, and tobacco are unhealthy for you,

or neutral at best, so when they come across data that suggests these

things were a regular part of a healthy group, they tend to downplay

it or assume the group in question was healthy in spite of the

practice in question.

Rest assured however that in this part of the WAP world, there are

plenty of people on this list very committed to WAP principles who

drink alcoholic beverages, eat stimulants, and some who even smoke.

Check the archives and you will find plenty of posts about wine, beer,

scotch, and even tobacco.

As for the Methodist church's attitude towards alcohol, you have the

Rev. Bob Welch to thank for that. A Methodist minister and member of

the Welch family, he made a killing thanks to that silly piece of

social engineering known as prohibition, when Welch's grape juice was

used in place of communion wine.

> The heather beer in Scotland/Ireland was credited with many

> healthful virtues, as were almost all forms of fermented honey

> (which contained propolis, royal jelly, pollen, and some venom,

> since they used to boil the whole hive to get at the honey). I'm

> finding out that many of the old " beers " had all kinds of herbs

> added for flavor and medicinal value, such as ginger wherever it was

> available, and mugwort, spruce, pine (sources of huge amounts of

> vitamin C), sage, nettles, burdock, dandelion, juniper, yarrow, and

> on and on.

You won't get any argument from me, but you will have to go outside of

NAPD to glean that info.

> I find it interesting that many of the essential oils in herbs don't

> dissolve as well in water as in alcohol, making tea a weak form of

> them. The author of the book, Buhner, theorizes that a lot

> of the traditional cures were altered because of prohibition and the

> protestant reforms against alcohol and other inebrients. In fact,

> the reason hops was allowed in beer was because it makes one sleepy,

> and " if one has to get drunk, better to be a sleeping drunk " was

> their philosophy.

>

> It boggles my mind that the herbs we take weakly in teas or small

> amounts of tinctures, they were drinking mugfuls of on a daily

> basis. And perhaps rightly so claiming they owed their good health

> to the beverages.

The modern use of herbs is a joke. People don't get results from them

because they aren't properly sourced and the formulas are

wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to weak, among other things.

> Then the question for me: can I overcome my Methodist upbringing and

> learn to like any of these? LOL!

Well if it will make you feel any better, Wesley, who

conventional wisdom credits as the founder of Methodism, and

Whitfield, the true founder of Methodism, both enjoyed alcoholic

beverages. It is easily found in their writings. There is a great

quote from Whitfield where he is thanking a friendly brewer for a

wonderful keg of beer that he sent.

The great Baptist preacher of the 19th century, Spuergeon, not

only imbibed, but smoked cigarettes as well. Spuergeon was world

famous at the time, and his sermons were printed throughout the

western world. So anytime he said something controversial it got

immediate attention from the press. He once remarked, when asked about

his smoking, that he smoked " to the glory of God! " Well he had to

explain himself on that one, but I love part of his response when

pressed how we would know that he was smoking too much. His reply?

" When I start smoking two at a time " LOL!

That aspect of modern protestantism which " doesn't smoke, drink, or

chew, or go with girls that do " was born directly from the *political*

movement of temperance, which was a given a Christian veneer but has

absolutely no roots in the historic Church.

--

" Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear -- kept us in

a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor -- with the cry of grave

national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home,

or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we

did not blindly rally behind it. "

General MacArthur,

WWII Supreme Allied Commander of the Southwest Pacific, Supreme United

Nations Commander; Whan, ed., " A Soldier Speaks: Public Papers and

Speeches of General of the Army MacArthur, " 1965; Nation,

August 17, 1957)

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'm relatively new to the group and have been

lurking/learning since I joined. I have a question

related to this topic, and it probably really shows my

lack of knowledge about food chemistry. Does drinking

alcohol during a meal wipe out all the probiotics one

gets from lacto-fermented veggies also eaten during

that same meal? And while thinking about this, what

about a cup of coffee along with LF veggies?

Thanks in advance for anyone's input on this, as it's

a question about which I've been wondering given that

my dh and I enjoy both the LF veggies and the

homebrew!

-

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I would guess the Germans ate their sauerkraut with their brew at

the same meal, as did the French with their Choucroute and wine, but

that's just guessing.

>

> Hi,

> I'm relatively new to the group and have been

> lurking/learning since I joined. I have a question

> related to this topic, and it probably really shows my

> lack of knowledge about food chemistry. Does drinking

> alcohol during a meal wipe out all the probiotics one

> gets from lacto-fermented veggies also eaten during

> that same meal? And while thinking about this, what

> about a cup of coffee along with LF veggies?

> Thanks in advance for anyone's input on this, as it's

> a question about which I've been wondering given that

> my dh and I enjoy both the LF veggies and the

> homebrew!

> -

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

On 9/4/06, Spann <jennspagesser@...> wrote:

> Hi,

> I'm relatively new to the group and have been

> lurking/learning since I joined. I have a question

> related to this topic, and it probably really shows my

> lack of knowledge about food chemistry. Does drinking

> alcohol during a meal wipe out all the probiotics one

> gets from lacto-fermented veggies also eaten during

> that same meal? And while thinking about this, what

> about a cup of coffee along with LF veggies?

> Thanks in advance for anyone's input on this, as it's

> a question about which I've been wondering given that

> my dh and I enjoy both the LF veggies and the

> homebrew!

> -

Hi ,

I could be wrong, but I don't think that traditional fermented foods

(and wine and beer are the result of ferments) cancel each other out.

--

" Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear -- kept us in

a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor -- with the cry of grave

national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home,

or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we

did not blindly rally behind it. "

General MacArthur,

WWII Supreme Allied Commander of the Southwest Pacific, Supreme United

Nations Commander; Whan, ed., " A Soldier Speaks: Public Papers and

Speeches of General of the Army MacArthur, " 1965; Nation,

August 17, 1957)