Re: Re: Pavel Tsatsouline

May 18, 2006

A> Hi all,

> > I'm spending the weekend with him and Mike Mahler

> > assisting at their " Beyond Bodybuilding " seminar.

> > Anyone got any questions to ask?

> > B.

Ask him what he thinks of Matt Furey and his programs.

May 27, 2006

>

>> Ask him what he thinks of Matt Furey and his programs.

>

> ,

> I just couldn't bring myself to do it. 40 people, man, sitting

> in the room at the Q & A and I just couldn't say it:

>

> " hey, Pavel, so what do you of Matt Furey and his programs? "

>

> I *think* he would say that MF is a great guy, with a great program,

> but that Dragon Door is vastly superior for xyz reasons.

>

> It did come out that both Pavel and MF both share an anti-chicken

> stance, Pavel, more as a joke based on personal taste--he has a

> slogan, " prevent a chicken, eat an egg " and MF for some whatever

> reason, I'm assuming hormone/antibiotic/contamination issues.

>

> There was an obvious jump in the " energy " in the room when someone

> threw Matt Furey's name out there.

>

> I checked out his website and saw this bit:

>

> # " Be a Lover AND a Fighter "

>

> " Introducing the Life, Love and Relationship Enhancing ... " Chuang

> Shang de Gong Fu " - China's Secret Sexual Kung Fu Love Making System -

> It'll Make You the Master of Any and All Bedroom Suites

> # She Said, " I Don't Want a Stud In the Gym During the Day Who's a Dud

> in the Bedroom at Night "

> # Order China's Secret Sexual Kung Fu Love Making Now "

>

> China's secret sexual kung fu love making, hehe.

> B.

>

I do remember reading a quote from Matt Furey, in which he was asked what he

though of kettlebells. He replied that he thought they made great door

stops.

Personally, I love kettlebells, own so many of them that they take up a

disproportionate amount of space in my city studio apt. I do, however feel

that Pavel's hype makes it hard for me to totally trust him. Any of his

books, or his website, consist of just so much hard hype, and salesmanship.

I also have been tremendously offended at times with the militaristic

attitude on the dragondoor site, in which he has been a much too willing

participant. That seems to have toned down in the last year or so, but there

were times in the past when I posted in protest against some incredibly

pro-war, jingoistic bullshit, that I was called a traitor, and one guy even

threatened to turn me into the FBI.

Kettlebells are a great training tool.

May 27, 2006

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of downwardog7

>

>Gene,

>I don't think you need to " totally trust him " , to get a lot of value

>from a kettlebell program. The DD site is hard to read, as are their

>the books--because of the hype--but, like you say, kettlebells are a

>great training tool.

Kettlebells are the absolute best form of exercise I've ever done. I love

the mixture of ballistics, cardio and strength training all in one! I'm

addicted for life :-)

For whatever it is or isn't worth.

Suze Fisher

Web Design and Development

http://www.allurecreative.com

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

May 27, 2006

On 5/27/06, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> Kettlebells are the absolute best form of exercise I've ever done. I love

> the mixture of ballistics, cardio and strength training all in one! I'm

> addicted for life :-)

They're also free, once you own one, which is more than can be said

for a gym membership. Plus you don't have to drive anywhere to use

them.

The only think I miss in them is the movements of bench press and

pullups. The former you can do with one exercise but I don't like it

too much. So I've been able to round out my workout by doing pushups

and doing pullups on a heavy tree branch in my yard. Plus, I do all

this in my bathing suit in mid afternoon, so I get my vitamin D and

other benefits of the sunlight all in one package, without driving a

mile or spending a dime.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

May 27, 2006

> Gene, did you by any chance run across Clubbells or try them? I'd be

> curious about your experience in the city apartment. The CST forum is

> devoid of that overmilitaristic stuff but gets the same complaints

> about over hype-y talk at times.

>

> Connie

Yes. I actually had the complete set, but wound up selling them. Part of

that was because, now that I'm back into accumulating various pieces of

electronic music technology, my apt doesn't have space for both the

kettlebells and the clubbells. I found that I much preferred the workout

that I got with kettlebells.

I did find the clubbell forum and the advertising also quite full of hype. I

agree - not militaristic like the Dragondoor forum, but I did feel like it

started getting kind of cultish.

May 27, 2006

>

> ... I do, however feel

>> that Pavel's hype makes it hard for me to totally trust him. Any of his

>> books, or his website, consist of just so much hard hype, and

> salesmanship.

>>

>> I also have been tremendously offended at times with the militaristic

>> attitude on the dragondoor site, in which he has been a much too willing

>> participant. That seems to have toned down in the last year or so,

> but there

>> were times in the past when I posted in protest against some incredibly

>> pro-war, jingoistic bullshit, that I was called a traitor, and one

> guy even

>> threatened to turn me into the FBI.

>>

>> Kettlebells are a great training tool.

>

> Gene,

> I don't think you need to " totally trust him " , to get a lot of value

> from a kettlebell program. The DD site is hard to read, as are their

> the books--because of the hype--but, like you say, kettlebells are a

> great training tool.

>

> As far as Pavel goes, and I've had this discussion with you before, in

> person, he's perhaps the single most gracious man I've ever met. I

> always make a point of re-introducing myself, because of the sheer

> volume of people he deals with, and yet he always remembers me, my

> name, and my home town. Sally does this, too, perhaps it's a schmooze

> technique for people in their arena?

>

> If I inquire/comment on what he's eating--yeah, I'm like that--he'll

> instantaneously offer to share whatever it is, and I mean he put half

> his plate of lunchmeat on my plate before I even knew what happened

> once, and I don't look like a girl what needs second-helpings, either.

>

> This was during lunch at the RKC, at the table with all his senior

> instructors, gee! But at the RKC, when they're " on " there is a lot of

> male posturing and some ridiculous exercises in aggression on the

> recruits, and a lot of military/police hyping, but that's because so

> many of the senior instructors specialize in those areas, and he let's

> them let loose. If you watch Pavel, he's not doing it, but standing

> back and letting them do their thing. He travels all over training

> military and police outfits, not just these kettlebell workshops, so

> apparently he's inclined that way, and he's also very Christian, it

> turns out, so maybe you'll throw all your kettlebells out now? Let me

> know if you wish to sell them!

>

> My thing is, I'm quite intrigued with him from a WAP-perspective, as I

> see him up close and he has the qualities of excellent nutrition. He

> is well-proportioned, has beautiful facial bone structure, and a rare

> sheen to his skin, which indicates good lubrication of all the body

> tissues, and I don't see often, in fact, I can only think of three

> people offhand, one being an artisanal sausage-maker we met in France,

> and the other being Dr. Lad, the Ayurvedic doctor.

>

> Certainly there are other athlete/coach/personalities out there, but

> they don't look like that, and/or, I don't have access to them. So, I

> ask him a lot of discreet questions about what food he was raised on,

> what he eats now, etc. And he was raised on organ meats--in

> Latvia--though he doesn't eat them so much now. While he doesn't

> pursue organic food in any way, he will only eat " real " food, never,

> ever, any type of protein bar or shake. But he does this in a

> common-sense sort of way, makes a point of saying he knows nothing of

> nutrition whatsoever, and doesn't comment upon what he, or others, are

> eating.

>

> I can only imagine you on the DD forum, I'll have to look up the

> threads. What a riot that must have been.

> Sorry to offend you with my response last night, was a joke.

> B.

> /secret sexual kung fu lovemaker

>

So sorry for the angry response last night. I didn't realize that it was

you, otherwise I would have figured that it was a joke. Hah - well, the

joke's on me.

I respect Pavel's knowledge. He obviously takes what he does seriously, and

he can both 'talk the talk' and also 'walk the walk'.

I was one of the people who hated gym class - I didn't appreciate getting

yelled at and punished by some militaristic asshole, and I like it even less

now. I imagine that if I ever went to one of these certifications, I'd get

beat up or thrown out on the first day, because I won't take that shit.

Pavel may be nice and gracious in person, but he does have some

responsibility for the overall dragondoor militaristic attitude. And,

personally, given the role of the U.S. Military these days, I'm not

impressed with the fact that he spends so much effort training them.

The first spat that I got into at dragondoor began when I had the audacity

to question a super patriotic post by Pavel himself. There were several

people on that list for whom I have the utmost disrespect (some of them are

now gone). Andy69,70,71 (must be 72 by now) - he's the one who threatened to

turn me in to the FBI, Jack Reape, who probably knows a good bit of torture

when he sees it, a fellow named Garm, and some others. I don't frequent the

forum that much now, but back in those days, these people pretty much

intimidated everyone else. I had several email conversations with people who

said that they supported what I did, but that they were afraid to voice

similar sentiments to the list. And in actuality, what I posted was quite

mild. But the attitude there was that ANY dissent was essentially treason. I

am not exaggerating.

Many very successful people are quite nice and gracious in person. I see

that often in high ranking executives in various firms. That's partly how

they get where they are - but I mistrust it.

May 27, 2006

>

>>> Gene, did you by any chance run across Clubbells or try them? I'd be

>>> curious about your experience in the city apartment...

>>>

>> Connie,

>> Mike Mahler swings clubs in his city apartment.

>>

>> With your ne plus ultra ranking as first-ever-senior-instructor/queen

>> of clubs, you could surely email him and ask him about it...

>

> NOT that I'm not as curious as anyone else about Gene's

> experiences...kettle bell or otherwise.

> B.

>

Oh - missed the city apt part - I had no issues, when I had the space to

swing them. Now that I don't, the kettlebells still work just great - they

require a little less space.

May 27, 2006

Matt Furey's programs are expensive but if people will pay what he charges,

more power to him. I do the body weight exercises but I also have

kettlebells which I use but not as often.

Too bad you couldn't bring yourself to ask. His response would have been

interesting. Both are good at what they do and both deliver. People have

been helped tremendously with ketllebells and with Furey's body weight

programs.

Matt Furey doesn't eat chicken because he considers it a weakening food. He

feels weak and run down after eating chicken so he stopped. I've never felt

that way so maybe it's something that affects a small percentage of the

population. He mentioned something in one of his email newsletters about am

guy who eats chicken won't look twice at the hot babe in the bikini with

bulging gazombas whereas someone who eats beef will. I disagree as I will

notice her and appreciate the sight regardless of what I've been eating.

Maybe with his sexual kung fu program you can eat chicken and still be a

stud. (Maybe I should invest in that!!)

May 28, 2006

> Matt Furey's programs are expensive but if people will pay what he charges,

> more power to him. I do the body weight exercises but I also have

> kettlebells which I use but not as often.

>

> Too bad you couldn't bring yourself to ask. His response would have been

> interesting. Both are good at what they do and both deliver. People have

> been helped tremendously with ketllebells and with Furey's body weight

> programs.

>

> Matt Furey doesn't eat chicken because he considers it a weakening food. He

> feels weak and run down after eating chicken so he stopped. I've never felt

> that way so maybe it's something that affects a small percentage of the

> population. He mentioned something in one of his email newsletters about am

> guy who eats chicken won't look twice at the hot babe in the bikini with

> bulging gazombas whereas someone who eats beef will. I disagree as I will

> notice her and appreciate the sight regardless of what I've been eating.

> Maybe with his sexual kung fu program you can eat chicken and still be a

> stud. (Maybe I should invest in that!!)

>

Some have accused Matt Furey of charging lots of money for stuff that you

can find for free. There is a notorious article by a former teacher of his

that accusing him of being a fraud.

He strikes me as somewhat of a huckster. Ancient secrets, etc, etc - I guess

I really disagree with you on one point. I think that generally when people

charge huge amounts of money for products that are not really what they

claim, they are considered a scam artist.

This is the letter from Karl Gotch (who at least used to be heavily used by

Furey in his promotional material)...as far as I know, it is authentic:

Tampa, 18th July '05 Dear Jake, Thanks for sending me that copy of the fat

man Matt Furey's website. As you know I don't have a computer and I don't

know how to use it, but as I can see he employs it for a con game to steal

from some poor guys that love the sport. He hung around me for about 5

months not over two years as he states. He writes, " What's Old is New -

What's New is Old " well he uses this to put his hand in the poor guys pocket

and grab the money. I found him out when he talked me into making a tape I

had about conditioning commercial, I had made the tape as proof, because

after my double hip replacement I could not do many of those things anymore

and a picture is worth a thousand words. I told him to never use my name

again with anything he ever did. The man is a disgrace to wrestling and has

no honor at all, he can walk under a snakes belly wearing a top hat. To give

you an idea what real pro-wrestling is lets take boxing as an example, even

as an Olympic Champ when you turn pro you have to start all over again

because it's completely different. Here in the U.S.A they had the best in

the world, men like Strangler , Toots Mondt, Pesek, etc. would

take the life out of anyone that challenged them. Wrestling is opposite of

what people think it is, it is not strength but knowledge, balance, and

timing, leverage and where to place the fulcrum, that's what it takes to

make it to the top in the noble art of wrestling. Also, the most difficult

sport is wrestling because contrary to other combat sports you have to learn

to attack and defend from 3 different positions; standing-up, on all fours

and underneath. It takes know how to do that, and your best hold is

condition, even the best automobile won't run without gas, oil, and water.

People now go for excitement and to something that is easy to understand,

that's why football, base-ball and basketball are drawing the big crowds,

plus they are team sport, they change their players in and out. Wrestling in

the amateurs should never be less than 12 minutes a match, then you can see

the best man. I wrote you all this to show you that how can a fat slob like

Furey, that doesn't know his elbow from his rear end, tell and show these

poor boys that he charges an arm and a leg and a finger thrown in? Wrestling

is a workman's sport, you need no expensive equipment and can practice it

anywhere, and here is this greedy, fat no good misfit charging them all this

money for nothing. I never took one cent from a boy to show him how to

wrestle, all I asked for is guts. I can make you strong, fast, agile and

train you for endurance and reflex, but guts you get when you are born. I

hope that we can find a way to stop this misfit from fleecing those poor

guys, thanks again for letting me know. Yours, Karl

May 29, 2006

On 5/27/06, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> On 5/27/06, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

>

> > Kettlebells are the absolute best form of exercise I've ever done. I love

> > the mixture of ballistics, cardio and strength training all in one! I'm

> > addicted for life :-)

>

> They're also free, once you own one, which is more than can be said

> for a gym membership. Plus you don't have to drive anywhere to use

> them.

For convenience and cost, obviously nothing quite beats working out at

home once you have acquired the necessary equipment. But the " gym "

environment does have its advantages (I put " gym " in quotes cuz you

can have a " gym " anywhere that people gather to workout:

http://www.angelcitypress.com/mbch.html), plus you can have a " gym "

that costs hardly nothing except the initial investment in equipment.

I also mean by gym a " hardcore " workout place, not one of those

shining meat market edifices that have arisen to meet the desires of

the " fitness " market.

There is the comraderie, accountability (if you train with a partner),

the pushing beyond your limits that such an atmosphere can provide,

etc., etc. When I was 20 or so and my mom was 40 or so (we are

separated by 19 years and some months) we used to workout together.

Invariably when I didn't feel like going she did and vice versa. And

working out with me she pushed to levels she had not gone before, and

vice versa (just by her presence I was motivated at times to do more

than I normally would have by myself).

I once mentioned to Darin, my former olympic lifting trainer, that I

wanted to set up a platform in my own home. He said he would never do

it and that my gains and results would diminish if I did. So I guess

it all depends on your overall goals, lifestyle, and how much of a

self-starter you are. A busy lifestyle with family and all might make

driving to a gym a literal impossibility (on the other hand, here in

the big city, there are three gyms within a 5 minute drive of my

current abode).

I for one dream of the day of having a magnificant home workout place,

complete with an olympic platform and all the rubber bumpers you could

dream of, kettlebells, some old style machines that are no longer in

general use, a full size trampoline, a sauna, free weights, etc. and

maybe even some power blocks. On the other hand I would still use a

" gym " , even if having a gym meant inviting folks over to my place. But

thats what works for me.

> The only think I miss in them is the movements of bench press and

> pullups. The former you can do with one exercise but I don't like it

> too much. So I've been able to round out my workout by doing pushups

> and doing pullups on a heavy tree branch in my yard.

When I was a kid my dad had a chin up bar mounted in one of the

doorways of our house. Why not get one of those for the winter months?

There are some pretty good ones out there these days.

--

You are a libertarian because " you're willing to tolerate anything

that's peaceful, and you practice the principle of live and let live –

opposing the initiation of force (violence) against anyone for any

purpose. "

The late Harry Browne

Why You Are A Libertarian

http://tinyurl.com/kha3m

May 29, 2006

On 5/28/06, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> For convenience and cost, obviously nothing quite beats working out at

> home once you have acquired the necessary equipment. But the " gym "

> environment does have its advantages . . .

> There is the comraderie, accountability (if you train with a partner),

> the pushing beyond your limits that such an atmosphere can provide,

> etc., etc.

Yes, I agree with you. Although I never trained with a partner, I did

borrow partnership from people who were at the gym, and there's no

question that, say, having a spotter on the bench press will lead to

pushing your limits in a way you can't do when alone, and therefore to

better gains.

But for me, right now, I've lost interest in the constant maximization

and am more with the idea of staying fit. I don't want to lose all my

muscularity, and I think with the work out I have I can actually gain

muscularity very slowly, and that's fine for me right now.

> When I was a kid my dad had a chin up bar mounted in one of the

> doorways of our house. Why not get one of those for the winter months?

> There are some pretty good ones out there these days.

That's a good idea, although I'd love to not live here by winter!

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

May 30, 2006

>

><http://www.chineseculturesecrets.com/order.html>http://www.chineseculturesecre\

ts.com/order.html

>

> " Chuang Shang de Gong Fu

>Order Form

>___ Yes Matt, I want to place my order for Master Zhang's Private

>Seminar with you on China's " lost art " of superior love making called

>Chuang Shang de Gong Fu. I realize that I must jump on this offer

>immediately as you are taking a significant risk in bringing this

>information to the U.S. Sometime in the near future this product may

>have to be pulled from the market, so there is no time to waste in

>making my decision. I understand you'll be sending me a set of 6 DVD's

>and 6 CD's, shot in China, that teach me what to do to be a master

>lover. I also understand that this is a special and by ordering now I

>am getting the system for only $297 plus S & H ($200 off the normal

>price). Sign me up NOW! "

>

><http://www.knockoutmarketing.com/>http://www.knockoutmarketing.com/

Wow! Only $297??? I'll have to jump on that as soon as I become a

millionaire using the marketing program so I can afford it.

> What do you think of _The Naked Warrior_?

I'm not sure I want to see a naked warrior unless it's one of the legendary

Amazon's and then I better have my black belt in sexual kung fu so I can

handle it. Actually, one of my son's has the book. It's Pavel's version of

body weight conditioning. I like Furey's better. I'm getting very good

results from it, including fat loss, better sleep, more strength, more

endurance, etc. I also got results from kettlebells although I'm seeing

results faster using MF's Combat Conditioning. The book is about the same

price as similar books on Dragon Door. I use Pavel's stretching book as a

guide and have made great strides with that. I'm not sure about Furey's

stretching program.

As for his other programs, there is a lot of hype but I take it with a

grain of salt. He's trying to sell so he's going to make it sound as good

as possible. I've seen similar hype from Dragon Door and from Sonnon.

What's the difference? They are all trying to sell. That's how they make

their livings. Whether his other programs can deliver, I wouldn't know,

except for one. My wife was having severe carpal tunnel symptoms and being

the kind, loving husband that I am, I wanted to try to help. I researched

on the internet and decided to spend the 99 bucks plus shipping for Furey's

program on how to elimate carpal tunnel pain. After about a week, she

started getting better. After about a month or so, her carpal tunnel pain

was gone. The was certainly a lot cheaper than surgery that wouldn't have

worked anyway. So my wife can vouch for that program.

I get a lot of junk mail trying to sell me stuff. " Make your lawn the

greenest in your town using beer and tabasco sauce! " " Order this 200 mpg

carburetor now before the oil companies find me and kill me! " It's all a

lot of hype and as a consumer, I've got to decide how best to spend my hard

earned money. But I haven't found Matt Furey's hype to be much different

than a lot of other's I've seen on exercise, money making, supplements, or

a host of other things. You might find it nauseating. I find it amusing. He

obviously sells plenty so there are people who buy it.

>How does Matt Furey stay so bulky doing body weight exercise? Is he

>just that huge? Is it the beef?

I talked to a guy here who accused Matt Furey of lying. He said there's no

way he got that physique with body weight exercises. He does say he lifted

a lot of weights when he was younger but I don't think he's lying. He would

be ruined if he was ever filmed secretly lifting weights while making fun

of the people who buy his programs. He's got nothing to gain by lying about

it. Making he got bulky while young by lifting weights and stays that way

now by body weight exercises. I don't know. All I know is that I'm doing

well with body weight exercises and my wife got rid of her carpal tunnel.

That's good enough for me.

(who doesn't need no stinking sex kung fu training because he's studly

enough as it is)

May 30, 2006

> I talked to a guy here who accused Matt Furey of lying. He said there's no

> way he got that physique with body weight exercises. He does say he lifted

> a lot of weights when he was younger but I don't think he's lying. He would

> be ruined if he was ever filmed secretly lifting weights while making fun

> of the people who buy his programs. He's got nothing to gain by lying about

> it. Making he got bulky while young by lifting weights and stays that way

> now by body weight exercises. I don't know. All I know is that I'm doing

> well with body weight exercises and my wife got rid of her carpal tunnel.

> That's good enough for me.

Even if he overhypes and overcharges for his stuff, and in some cases

charges an arm and a leg for stuff that's publicly available? That's a

curious way of looking at it.

May 30, 2006

I think this subject has gotten out of hand. It's ridiculous that someone can't

use a bible verse in her email, but this content is ok!!!