Help Stop Smoking? - NAC/curcumin/turmeric

[Guest guest]

--- Idol wrote:

>

> -

> >Would there be any potential side-effects with the NAC?

>

> Some people can develop gastric distress at high doses, but the main

> issue I'm aware of is maintaining balance in your antioxidant

> network, because upregulating one component of the network without

> compensatory upregulation of the others can actually lead to

> increased production of certain kinds of free radicals. <snip>

> ... I'd recommend taking at least curcumin and possibly also

> bacopa. Curcumin and bacopa have a legion of benefits, so there's

> little reason not to take them too.

Thanks - sounds good to me, but my wife is reluctant to take NAC.

She is also reluctant to take an anti-depressant like wellbutrin that

others I know have recommended (but I haven't researched). So far she

has been able to stay smoke-free now for 5 days.

I did find this article which talks about some dietary factors that

may help smokers quit, including tyrosine, magnesium, and B complex:

http://altmedicine.about.com/od/therapiesfromrtoz/a/quit_smoking.htm

Your good words about curcumin roused my interest and I found this

article:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jul2002_report_curcumin_01.html

- which indicates curcumin may be good for preventing cancer, although

I was puzzled by this statement:

================================

Two other estrogen mimickers were tested for their ability to enhance

breast cancer. Chlordane and endosulfane together make breast cancer

cells grow about as much as 17b-estradiol. Curcumin can reverse that

growth about 90%. Adding the soy phytochemical, genistein, causes a

100% growth arrest.

================================

I thought genistein was a phytoestrogen! <scratches head>

This set of postings (from no telling who) also sounds pretty good

overall about curcumin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curcumin

- but says curcumin is a polyphenol, which at least one person on this

list says may be problematic.

From the NN archive on 9/5/06 Emma Davies wrote " Re: Coconut oil " :

================================

....non-essential " nutrients " such as bioflavinoids and polyphenols...

but these are aromatic rings and the body would only detox them

through the PST pathway as toxins anyway.

================================

Any thoughts?

Also, one of the widipedia postings says:

================================

Asian curcumin may be toxic ... because of heavy metal, insecticide,

herbicide and fungicide content. Those looking to curcumin for it's

admitted good effects may get unwelcome toxic companions from

so-called " natural curcumin. "

================================

And, from the NN archive on 3/10/03 Suze Fisher wrote:

================================

....there is evidence that a number of antioxidants, under certain

conditions, act as *pro* oxidants. In " Natural Compounds in Cancer

Therapy " there is a chapter discussing both the pro- and anti-oxidant

effects of antioxidants on cancer cells. Included on the list of

anti-oxidants that have exerted pro-oxidant effects in vitro are

apigenin, luteolin, beta-carotene, *curcumin*, EGCG, glutathione,

*NAC*, quercetin, vit. A and Vit. E. the author, john boik, provides

what appear to be primary references for all of these.

afaik, the pro-oxidant effect is ususally when a single anti-oxidant

is used in very large doses, as opposed to using a variety of

anti-oxidants in smaller doses (as typically occurs in nature),

probably because many of them are part of a network and thus work

synergistically, often recycling each other.

================================

I guess too much of any good thing can be bad, huh?

When I looked at curcumin supplements on the internet, most had

magnesium stearate listed in the ingredients. I'm leary of stearates

because of Dr. Ron's contention that stearates in supplements are

hydrogenated fats which are unhealthful, may impair absorption of the

supplement, and are often made from cottonseed oil that can be high in

pesticide residue:

http://www.drrons.com/why-no-additives.htm

If we are going to get curcumin, I would prefer to get it in unrefined

form (less refined?) as turmeric for use with food - if there is a

source that is clean. Anyone know of a source of turmeric that is

free of heavy metals, insecticides, herbicides, and fungicides?

Also, any good ideas on simple ways to use turmeric with food?

(I'm not much of a cook, so Asian curry dishes are probably beyond my

current cooking skills Maybe add it to grassfed burger meat or in

bone broth or gravy or maybe homemade yellow mustard?

<disasters waiting to happen >

[Guest guest]

,

> Thanks - sounds good to me, but my wife is reluctant to take NAC.

> She is also reluctant to take an anti-depressant like wellbutrin that

> others I know have recommended (but I haven't researched). So far she

> has been able to stay smoke-free now for 5 days.

My understanding is that undenatured whey protein is just as good.

Jarrow makes one that is non-hydrolyzed and therefore low in

glutamates. Source Naturals makes one that is advertised as grass-fed

but a little more expensive and doesn't say if it's hydrolyzed or not.

> Two other estrogen mimickers were tested for their ability to enhance

> breast cancer. Chlordane and endosulfane together make breast cancer

> cells grow about as much as 17b-estradiol. Curcumin can reverse that

> growth about 90%. Adding the soy phytochemical, genistein, causes a

> 100% growth arrest.

> ================================

> I thought genistein was a phytoestrogen! <scratches head>

Flavonoids in general are inhibitors of estrogen synthesis. Flavones

(some herbs, celery, honey) and flavanones (citrus) are more effective

than phytoestrogens, but phytoestrogens are effective. On the other

hand, most phytoestrogens agonize estrogen receptors themselves. So

they have conflicting effects on estrogen. Genistein and daidzein are

also inhibitors of enzymes involved in sulfation of estrogen, which

inactivates it. They competitively inhibit its sulfation, but when

they themselves get sulfated they competitively inhibit the

de-sulfation of estrogen, which reactivates it. Because these actions

are conflicting and because they might happen at various different

tissues (one action in the liver and another in the breast, for

example) I wouldn't trust cell studies to predict effects in living

organisms.

> This set of postings (from no telling who) also sounds pretty good

> overall about curcumin:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curcumin

> - but says curcumin is a polyphenol, which at least one person on this

> list says may be problematic.

Polyphenols range from great to toxic to super-nutrient super-toxins

(Fuhrman loves super-nutrient super-toxins, considers them

super-nutrients only, and doubles their score on his nutrient density

ranking).

> From the NN archive on 9/5/06 Emma Davies wrote " Re: Coconut oil " :

> ================================

> ...non-essential " nutrients " such as bioflavinoids and polyphenols...

> but these are aromatic rings and the body would only detox them

> through the PST pathway as toxins anyway.

> ================================

> Any thoughts?

The body doesn't just detoxify anything with an aromatic ring. Some

polyphenols are resistant to detoxification, like quercitin.

Quercitin is actually a lot like dioxin.

But there are plenty of essential nutrients and compounds with

aromatic rings as well. You can't judge a polyphenol by its cover.

> And, from the NN archive on 3/10/03 Suze Fisher wrote:

> ================================

> ...there is evidence that a number of antioxidants, under certain

> conditions, act as *pro* oxidants. In " Natural Compounds in Cancer

> Therapy " there is a chapter discussing both the pro- and anti-oxidant

> effects of antioxidants on cancer cells. Included on the list of

> anti-oxidants that have exerted pro-oxidant effects in vitro are

> apigenin, luteolin, beta-carotene, *curcumin*, EGCG, glutathione,

> *NAC*, quercetin, vit. A and Vit. E. the author, john boik, provides

> what appear to be primary references for all of these.

Beta-carotene is definitely an absolute no-no to supplement.

Everything I've seen indicates vitamin A is a powerful antioxidant in

vivo.

Obviously any antioxidant is also a prooxidant because by definition

once it acts as an antioxidant it becomes oxidized and thereby becomes

an oxidant. That's sort of besides the point.

> afaik, the pro-oxidant effect is ususally when a single anti-oxidant

> is used in very large doses, as opposed to using a variety of

> anti-oxidants in smaller doses (as typically occurs in nature),

> probably because many of them are part of a network and thus work

> synergistically, often recycling each other.

Yes but as far as I know glutathione recycles everything and it itself

is recycled by niacin. The key to recycling it well is not the supply

of other antioxidants but the maintenance of a high production of

cellular energy. Also worthy of note, vitamin A, in single doses as

an isolated supplement, exerts a dramatic glutathione-sparing effect.

Vitamin K2 does NOT exert a glutathione-sparing effect but completely

protects brain cells from the effects of glutathione depletion.

> When I looked at curcumin supplements on the internet, most had

> magnesium stearate listed in the ingredients. I'm leary of stearates

> because of Dr. Ron's contention that stearates in supplements are

> hydrogenated fats which are unhealthful, may impair absorption of the

> supplement, and are often made from cottonseed oil that can be high in

> pesticide residue:

> http://www.drrons.com/why-no-additives.htm

I would prefer to avoid magnesium stearate where possible, but it's

usually in trace amounts, is not an unhealthful trans fat, and

probably does not carry pesticides into the product but if it did what

should be criticized is the pesticides in the product not those

present in the cottonseed oil it originally came from.

That said I know zilch about curcumin.

Chris

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