Re: Guidance for minimising amines in foods/Tyramine

[Guest guest]

I saw some references to tyramine causing problems in people whose

adrenals weren't functioning properly (believed to be converted to

adrenaline in the adrenals) - the problems were described as

hypertension and headaches. Then I found this gem about the role of

ascorbic acid in the breakdown of tyramine, it doesn't even need to

take place in the adrenals.

[PDF] ASCORBIC ACID IN AROMATIC HYDROXYLATION ofFile Format:

PDF/Adobe Acrobat

Studies in this laboratory on the conversion of tyramine to hydroxy-

.. tyramine by homogenates of adrenal medulla showed that

hydroxylation ...

www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/208/2/731.pdf

> >>>The issue I have with this is that we know paleo people used

> flat stones to crack open bones and nuts on, but a flat stone

isn't

> really a good tool to use when you have some wet vegetable

> matter...<<<

>

> This is going to be tough to convince me about. It's just, I'd

bet

> with some experimentation, I could figure out how to lacto-ferment

> wild foods, and, with hundreds of thousands of years to

experiment,

> and nutritional gain to be had, I bet ancient humans did too.

They

> figured out a way. This is strictly speculative, of course! But

> there's a logic to it.

>

> >>People have been taking from this discussion the idea

> that " fermented foods contain amines so they're bad " , which isn't

how

> it works...<<

>

> I admit I had been thinking that.

>

> >>I don't know whether we have any experts in kefir drinking here,

> but Iwonder if any of them have noticed what I have noticed - I've

> read plenty of anecdotes suggesting " normal " people do experience

> this - that some strains/batches of kefir make you relaxed and

calm

> (GABA), others give you a rush and make you feel overstimulated

> (glutamate), others send your thyroid into overdrive and keep you

up

> all night (tyramine). This is because it depends exactly what bugs

in

> what proportions produce what results. Would paleolithic and

neolithic

> people not have noticed this and tried to select their ferments for

> the most favourable effects?<<

>

> Well ~I~ do make and drink kefir. I most definitely ~have~

noticed

> the relaxed/calm rush -- it's pretty noticeable and happens within

2

> or 3 minutes of drinking the kefir. I find it pleasant. I

assumed

> it was a kind of alcohol unfamiliar to me that the kefir mother

> created. So is GABA one of the -amines- you're saying can be

toxic?

>

> I haven't felt at all stimulated or wired by kefir -- stimulation

> tends to turn me off to a food or other substance.

>

> I don't feel that ancients or primitives would have stuck with the

> ferments that intoxicated them or not. Like anyone else, they

could

> see the effects these things on their ability to gather food,

protect

> themselves, and have a satisfying dream life, and would have

> responded in kind. If anything they were probably more aware --

and

> more responsive -- to chemical sensitivities than us moderns have

> learned to become.....

>

> Tim

>