Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 > > I need some help. > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. - My heart goes out to you. Before Christmas, I was given an ultimatum (in an e-mail) by my parents that if I continued to associate with my Uncle, they " no longer have a daughter. " My choice at that time (not quite yet realizing I was dealing with a BPD mother - I would make the discovery within a week of that ultimatum), was to accept them disowning me although it wasn't easy. I responded that they had no right to make that request. Your case is different in the sense that your brother is doing the whole triangulation thing. I couldn't tell from your post how exactly your Dad fits into the picture (probably I should read your old posts) - I am assuming he is the original BPD-NPD and that your mom is the willing enabler to all parties. In my case, my Dad is the enabler...he uses the excuse that he is " supporting " his wife's destructive behavior. You have the right to set boundaries. Understand that really, because of what you are dealing with, the boundaries are more for you. Your BPD brother will not accept boundaries. You can't control that. You can choose how to respond. Your mother may or may not choose to honor your boundaries. Again, you can't control that either. She is being manipulated by the situation. But she is an adult and in theory, fully capable of making her own decisions irrespective of your brother. The hard part about this is not yourself feeling badly because she may make the choice to side with your brother. Understand that is her dysfunction and in no way a reflection on you. If she were a mother in the true sense, you would not be at this point with her. As painful as it is, remember YOU DESERVE MUCH BETTER. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. You have every right to happiness in your life. You don't " owe " them an explanation should you just choose to step back from the situation. If you would feel better communicating it in writing to them, then do so. Don't worry about their feelings at this point, you can't control that. Think about how you will feel. I chose to communicate back to my parents in writing because it gave me the safety of distance. My Nada had baited me into argument after argument for 1.5 years intensively plus on and off since the day I was born. I needed the distance and time to think through my response and chose to write. If you feel more comfortable speaking with your mom, then do that. It may be in your case that the whole triangulation thing with your brother makes putting things in writing more of a way for them to create more chaos. Bottom line - do what YOU want. How it is received cannot be controlled. I know what you are going through is heart breaking. For me it was as if my parents had died. In reality, that's what really happened...my wish for a genuine relationship with them will never come to pass. That's a very hard thing to come to terms with. Like you, I was devastated. I can tell you that 7 months later I'm much better. I still have my moments, but I am working on me and leaving the rest alone. Take care of yourself- JJFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I guess from what I've read, my personal actions would include talking with mom to explain that, whether she agrees or not, you have a serious situation with real people and real feelings. After much thought, contemplation and after seeking advice from many others, you have comes to terms with some actions that you need carry out to take care of yourself (and son). Although you hope mom can respect your decisions and what you need from her (NC about bro/wife), mom may not agree and no opinion or advice from her is necessary at this time. I would think that at least some resistence will come of this on your mom/bro's part, but be unflinching and confident about your simple and very honorable request(s). This, IMO, is a family disease and each member plays a part. People are usually not very willing to change easliy. If you stand your ground ( " I can stand it " -someone says that on this board) you will either be met with goodbyes or the possibility that they could eventually, probably after much " change back " behavior, respect and honor your decision by choosing to do things differently. That also may take some time and practice on everyones part...to learn new ways of interacting. YOU ARE WORTH IT!!! Do for yourself as you want for your son. I know this is all 'easier said than done' and there are MANY ups and downs that accompany this process, but YOU ARE WORTH IT! and much growth and happiness can be had. Take Care Of You, JaneSoul Outcast and fall out I need some help. I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my brother and his wife. They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life.. This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued this ultimatum to get what he wants. He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it instead of calling him on it. I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a course around it, it has come to pass. I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have my child subjected to this dysfunction. I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that is frustrating in the extreme for me. I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all comments. Be strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 hold on just a second. there are other alternatives to giving an ultimatum. i know you feel backed into a corner and constantly attacked by your brother, but if i'm remembering correctly, your mom is in control of your inheritance. taking all this into consideration, here is what i would do. 1) i would not attend anything my brother is at. no play-dates with your niece, no nothing. at this point, your niece stands the chance of being painted white OR black by your brother, and either way, she might also need an emotional outlet at some point and start picking on your son just like she sees her dad to do you. lame. 2) i would not talk to my mom about anything important. i would stop talking about your brother altogether. you don't trust your mom. you shouldn't trust your mom. no matter what you do, your mom is going to talk about you to your brother if you make yourself interesting. so one solution is to not make yourself interesting. it's kind of a drag (i haven't told my mom anything about myself in close to a year; the bigger drag, though is that she hasn't asked), but it does the job and it's LESS of a drag than being talked about. bink > > I need some help. > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is > totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. > She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter > and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am > to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a > condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my > brother and his wife. > They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like > garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play > along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she > wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop > telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an > ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my > son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. > This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this > ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued > this ultimatum to get what he wants. > He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it > instead of calling him on it. > I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess > and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling > myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I > resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I > resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is > no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family > and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't > care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go > away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a > course around it, it has come to pass. > I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing > my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something > wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his > cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage > him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know > that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic > Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced > himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that > my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome > when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like > this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have > my child subjected to this dysfunction. > I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet > my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. > They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I > still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to > bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing > myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being > unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not > happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to > act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I > want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that > is frustrating in the extreme for me. > I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not > want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to > deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what > a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all > comments. > Be strong > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 also, i don't know what kind of circle of friends your son has, but it seems like a good idea to me to make sure that his cousin would only be a very small part of that circle. it's no good for him to feel rejected because her dad is a prick. bink > > > > I need some help. > > > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is > > totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. > > She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter > > and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am > > to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a > > condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my > > brother and his wife. > > They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like > > garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play > > along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she > > wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop > > telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an > > ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my > > son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. > > This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this > > ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued > > this ultimatum to get what he wants. > > He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it > > instead of calling him on it. > > I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess > > and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling > > myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I > > resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I > > resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is > > no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family > > and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't > > care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go > > away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a > > course around it, it has come to pass. > > I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing > > my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something > > wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his > > cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage > > him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know > > that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic > > Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced > > himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that > > my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome > > when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like > > this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have > > my child subjected to this dysfunction. > > I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet > > my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. > > They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I > > still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to > > bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing > > myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being > > unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not > > happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to > > act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I > > want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that > > is frustrating in the extreme for me. > > I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not > > want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to > > deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what > > a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all > > comments. > > Be strong > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I found that the best thing to do for me was to take a step back from everything and stop making contact with my nada and brother. It has been over a year since I heard from my nada and close to a year for my brother. My father became very ill last year; since my father's illness my brother's negative behavior towards me has excalated. Basically, my brother has turned into my father. My brother is very judgemental and mean, emailed me that I am selfish because I am not running to take care of nada's every anticipated need. My brother now defends my mother and acts like I am the crazy one. This same brother was at my house every weekend for years because he could not stand being home (brother still lived with parents) and walking into the " Human Buzz Saw. " This is how HE described my mother. My brother is very NPD since my father took ill and cannot defend my nada's behavior. You cannot have a rational conversation with either my brother or nada. They seem to now feed off of each other and confirm that I am the bad one for wanting my nada to stop attacking me (verbally + physically + emotionally). My brother has the opinion of how dare I defend myself, mother's needs are the only ones that matter. I believe in karma and they deserve each other. My son is much happier now without all the drama and even told me yesterday what a great mom I am. If I sent my nada a letter, she would most likely wear it around her neck as jewely so she could tell everyone what a bitch I am -- look at this letter my daughter sent me. The letter would only serve to support her role as a victim and my role as the bitch. A letter may even invoke negative messages on my home answering machine -- the point of these messages would be to prove to my son what a bitch I am. Sometimes walking away quielty is the best solution. Good luck and I feel for you. lillyblue62 wrote: I need some help. I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my brother and his wife. They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued this ultimatum to get what he wants. He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it instead of calling him on it. I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a course around it, it has come to pass. I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have my child subjected to this dysfunction. I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that is frustrating in the extreme for me. I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all comments. Be strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hey Sweetie, I hear how hurt you are. You want a better family and you deserve it. I've been thinking about you a lot this week and the hard time you are going through. I've read that Narcs only respond to consequences/appearances. So, he and your mother will do nothing unless they experience a consequence to them that they perceive as negative. They crave attention and do not distinguish good attention from bad. By talking to them, sharing your feelings and showing your hurt, you are unfortunatly giving them attention that they crave. Ugh. A good person would have empathy for you like we do, but the narc/bpds in your life do not have empathy at all. They have no idea what it is. I would walk away, wordlessly. They may be bigger people than they seem to be from where I am standing and come to you. But don't count on it. Redirect all of this energy inward for yourself and your son. Don't let them steal your energy. Forget them and build a life without them. And, the books suggest releasing your mother and brother to a higher power. You will have to accept that you don't have the power to change them and you will never make them see. I hope and pray that there is a higher power who will deal with my family, but it isn't my responsiblity and it isn't within my abilities. It's hard for me to think about the higher power because of what I call my nada's " church abuse " I detest religion. So far I have only gotten as far as picturing the higher power as a giant light, sort of like a flying saucer circling over her and then - who knows what? An anal probe perhaps? ha ha. Much love, girlscout > I found that the best thing to do for me was to take a step back from > everything and stop making contact with my nada and brother. It has been > over a year since I heard from my nada and close to a year for my brother. > My father became very ill last year; since my father's illness my brother's > negative behavior towards me has excalated. > > Basically, my brother has turned into my father. My brother is very > judgemental and mean, emailed me that I am selfish because I am not running > to take care of nada's every anticipated need. My brother now defends my > mother and acts like I am the crazy one. This same brother was at my house > every weekend for years because he could not stand being home (brother still > lived with parents) and walking into the " Human Buzz Saw. " This is how HE > described my mother. My brother is very NPD since my father took ill and > cannot defend my nada's behavior. > > You cannot have a rational conversation with either my brother or nada. > They seem to now feed off of each other and confirm that I am the bad one > for wanting my nada to stop attacking me (verbally + physically + > emotionally). My brother has the opinion of how dare I defend myself, > mother's needs are the only ones that matter. > > I believe in karma and they deserve each other. My son is much happier now > without all the drama and even told me yesterday what a great mom I am. > > If I sent my nada a letter, she would most likely wear it around her neck > as jewely so she could tell everyone what a bitch I am -- look at this > letter my daughter sent me. The letter would only serve to support her role > as a victim and my role as the bitch. A letter may even invoke negative > messages on my home answering machine -- the point of these messages would > be to prove to my son what a bitch I am. > > Sometimes walking away quielty is the best solution. Good luck and I feel > for you. > > > lillyblue62 <lillyblue62@... <lillyblue62%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > I need some help. > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is > totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. > She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter > and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am > to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a > condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my > brother and his wife. > They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like > garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play > along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she > wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop > telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an > ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my > son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. > This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this > ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued > this ultimatum to get what he wants. > He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it > instead of calling him on it. > I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess > and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling > myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I > resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I > resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is > no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family > and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't > care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go > away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a > course around it, it has come to pass. > I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing > my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something > wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his > cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage > him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know > that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic > Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced > himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that > my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome > when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like > this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have > my child subjected to this dysfunction. > I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet > my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. > They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I > still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to > bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing > myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being > unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not > happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to > act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I > want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that > is frustrating in the extreme for me. > I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not > want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to > deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what > a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all > comments. > Be strong > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I really feel for you. It is hard to accept the fact that we will never have the family we yearn for. I don't think informing them is going to help. They will just turn it around on you and hurt you more. I would just limit the information I am willing to share and make any future communication/contact superficial. Like being polite to the person at work that you can't stand. If you tell them about your life, you only invite their criticism. If you tell them about your feelings, you invite their punishment. Protect yourself from that as best you can. That is what I do right now with my Mom. No Contact is not currently an option for me. I just keep the conversation superficial, and the visits short. Good Luck to you!! By the way, the family you are yearning for. You have that family - it is you and your Son. Be the best mom you can and seek validation in having a happy and healthy child. I know what it feels like to yearn for the affection and approval of your Mom. You have to face the fact that she in not capable of giving you either of those things and it is NOT your fault! > > I need some help. > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is > totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. > She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter > and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am > to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a > condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my > brother and his wife. > They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like > garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play > along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she > wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop > telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an > ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my > son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. > This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this > ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued > this ultimatum to get what he wants. > He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it > instead of calling him on it. > I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess > and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling > myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I > resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I > resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is > no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family > and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't > care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go > away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a > course around it, it has come to pass. > I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing > my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something > wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his > cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage > him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know > that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic > Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced > himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that > my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome > when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like > this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have > my child subjected to this dysfunction. > I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet > my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. > They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I > still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to > bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing > myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being > unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not > happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to > act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I > want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that > is frustrating in the extreme for me. > I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not > want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to > deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what > a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all > comments. > Be strong > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Thank you so much, it helps to hear this. I am not the person to abandon a problem, but I accept that I cannot control how they think of me and nothing I do or say will change anything. I am going NC with my brother. Oddly enough he contacted me today to tell me that he had seen some jobs that I was interested in come open and wanted to let me know. I thanked him in a neutral voice and got off the phone as fast as possible without being rude. I will never engage him again. As for nada, I will never trust her again. I will keep her informed but not go into details, I will not confide in her or expect anything of her. I am beginning to feel better, but it will take some work. I still resent like hell being put in this situation and I will take the first job that comes along that offers decent pay and health care no matter where it is. I did have to turn down a position that was in Singapore, that is a little farther than I want to run. I will not relinquish anything that is mine but I will work to decrease my footprint in their lives. If nada gets sick she is on her own, my brother can take care of her. Thanks Outcast and fall out I need some help. I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my brother and his wife. They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life.. This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued this ultimatum to get what he wants. He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it instead of calling him on it. I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a course around it, it has come to pass. I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have my child subjected to this dysfunction. I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that is frustrating in the extreme for me. I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all comments. Be strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 My brother is a Narc of the first order and my nada enables him. That BPD/Narc dynamic is alive and well between them. I will walk away and not go out of my way to include them in my life anymore. I won't cut off nada from her grandson, but I have to accept that she has never found value in me and will never support or defend me. It is all her son all the time, even at the expense of my son. So be it. I like your suggestion that I give them over to a higher power. I am a firm believer in Karma. And there is a smack down coming for my bro. Right now I am in the planning stage. I am thinking through my options and strategies in order to minimize any contact with my brother. I have a lot of work to do on my house and will comitt all my time to that and my job search. I am going to reclaim my energy and put it to good use instead of wasting it. I will have to rely on my self alone. I am struggling to accept how alone I am. It is as if my entire family died and in fact that is what has happened. My last delusions that they might value my son over me is gone. I no longer accept the role they have created for me and it is time I left for good. Only time will tell and meanwhile I am keeping busy. Thank you for thinking of me. Odd that I should get more understanding from strangers than I do from my family. I am grateful for what I have. This is just one more rough patch that is going to make me stronger. Thanks Re: Outcast and fall out Hey Sweetie, I hear how hurt you are. You want a better family and you deserve it. I've been thinking about you a lot this week and the hard time you are going through. I've read that Narcs only respond to consequences/ appearances. So, he and your mother will do nothing unless they experience a consequence to them that they perceive as negative. They crave attention and do not distinguish good attention from bad. By talking to them, sharing your feelings and showing your hurt, you are unfortunatly giving them attention that they crave. Ugh.. A good person would have empathy for you like we do, but the narc/bpds in your life do not have empathy at all. They have no idea what it is. I would walk away, wordlessly. They may be bigger people than they seem to be from where I am standing and come to you. But don't count on it. Redirect all of this energy inward for yourself and your son. Don't let them steal your energy. Forget them and build a life without them. And, the books suggest releasing your mother and brother to a higher power. You will have to accept that you don't have the power to change them and you will never make them see. I hope and pray that there is a higher power who will deal with my family, but it isn't my responsiblity and it isn't within my abilities. It's hard for me to think about the higher power because of what I call my nada's " church abuse " I detest religion. So far I have only gotten as far as picturing the higher power as a giant light, sort of like a flying saucer circling over her and then - who knows what? An anal probe perhaps? ha ha. Much love, girlscout On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Cook <ksc_badchild@ yahoo.com> wrote: > I found that the best thing to do for me was to take a step back from > everything and stop making contact with my nada and brother. It has been > over a year since I heard from my nada and close to a year for my brother. > My father became very ill last year; since my father's illness my brother's > negative behavior towards me has excalated. > > Basically, my brother has turned into my father. My brother is very > judgemental and mean, emailed me that I am selfish because I am not running > to take care of nada's every anticipated need. My brother now defends my > mother and acts like I am the crazy one. This same brother was at my house > every weekend for years because he could not stand being home (brother still > lived with parents) and walking into the " Human Buzz Saw. " This is how HE > described my mother. My brother is very NPD since my father took ill and > cannot defend my nada's behavior. > > You cannot have a rational conversation with either my brother or nada. > They seem to now feed off of each other and confirm that I am the bad one > for wanting my nada to stop attacking me (verbally + physically + > emotionally) . My brother has the opinion of how dare I defend myself, > mother's needs are the only ones that matter. > > I believe in karma and they deserve each other. My son is much happier now > without all the drama and even told me yesterday what a great mom I am. > > If I sent my nada a letter, she would most likely wear it around her neck > as jewely so she could tell everyone what a bitch I am -- look at this > letter my daughter sent me. The letter would only serve to support her role > as a victim and my role as the bitch. A letter may even invoke negative > messages on my home answering machine -- the point of these messages would > be to prove to my son what a bitch I am. > > Sometimes walking away quielty is the best solution. Good luck and I feel > for you. > > > lillyblue62 <lillyblue62@ yahoo.com <lillyblue62% 40yahoo.com> > wrote: > I need some help. > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is > totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. > She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter > and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am > to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a > condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my > brother and his wife. > They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like > garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play > along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she > wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop > telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an > ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my > son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. > This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this > ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued > this ultimatum to get what he wants. > He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it > instead of calling him on it. > I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess > and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling > myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I > resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I > resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is > no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family > and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't > care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go > away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a > course around it, it has come to pass. > I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing > my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something > wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his > cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage > him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know > that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic > Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced > himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that > my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome > when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like > this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have > my child subjected to this dysfunction. > I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet > my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. > They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I > still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to > bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing > myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being > unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not > happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to > act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions.. I > want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that > is frustrating in the extreme for me. > I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not > want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to > deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what > a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all > comments. > Be strong > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Everything you say I could have written myself. This dynamic is depressingly familar. I know that Narcs have this incrediable sense of entitlement to be as destructive as they like in our lives, but come on who do they think they are? Oh that's right....Gods gift to the world. Bless their shriveled little hearts. No one else matters and god help you if you call them on it. I am in agreement about the letter, even though it was powerfully hard not to write one. It will only be used against me and no matter how I write it it will cause problems in the long run. I have enough problems. I need to work on realizing that by not engaging them it is not the same thing as running away from my issues. I need to realize that there is no way they will ever think rationally about me, that they are too invested in making me the bad guy/gal. They couldn't change their opinion even if they wanted to, it would upset their reality and they just won't go there. I need a different strategy to cope with the situation and I need to protect my son. Everytime my brother upsets me it harms my child. Time to try something new. I am going to let them own their own behavior and not try to fix it. I cannot change their opinion of me, even though I find it extremely hurtful. The person they want me to be is not the person I am and I will not kill off my self on the iffy chance that they will suddenly have a change of heart and let me back in. Not going to happen. The projection is heavy and all I can do is remove as much of my presence from their lives. They have worked so hard to root me out I am tired of fighting to get back in. I will not abandond my property or my inheritance and I will visit a living hell on my brother if he tries to interfere with any of what is coming to me. There is nothing to lose with him anymore, and I don't have to let him know what is coming if he acts up again. All I need do is sit back, prepare and wait. Be strong My sincere gratitude to you all Re: Outcast and fall out I found that the best thing to do for me was to take a step back from everything and stop making contact with my nada and brother. It has been over a year since I heard from my nada and close to a year for my brother. My father became very ill last year; since my father's illness my brother's negative behavior towards me has excalated. Basically, my brother has turned into my father. My brother is very judgemental and mean, emailed me that I am selfish because I am not running to take care of nada's every anticipated need. My brother now defends my mother and acts like I am the crazy one. This same brother was at my house every weekend for years because he could not stand being home (brother still lived with parents) and walking into the " Human Buzz Saw. " This is how HE described my mother. My brother is very NPD since my father took ill and cannot defend my nada's behavior. You cannot have a rational conversation with either my brother or nada. They seem to now feed off of each other and confirm that I am the bad one for wanting my nada to stop attacking me (verbally + physically + emotionally) . My brother has the opinion of how dare I defend myself, mother's needs are the only ones that matter. I believe in karma and they deserve each other. My son is much happier now without all the drama and even told me yesterday what a great mom I am. If I sent my nada a letter, she would most likely wear it around her neck as jewely so she could tell everyone what a bitch I am -- look at this letter my daughter sent me. The letter would only serve to support her role as a victim and my role as the bitch. A letter may even invoke negative messages on my home answering machine -- the point of these messages would be to prove to my son what a bitch I am. Sometimes walking away quielty is the best solution. Good luck and I feel for you. lillyblue62 <lillyblue62@ yahoo.com> wrote: I need some help. I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my brother and his wife. They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued this ultimatum to get what he wants. He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it instead of calling him on it. I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a course around it, it has come to pass. I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have my child subjected to this dysfunction. I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that is frustrating in the extreme for me. I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all comments. Be strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Thank you, I needed to hear that. It pretty much validates what I knew in my gut but was having trouble acknowledging. This just sucks and it is so unfair. But I will survive and I will make better decisions from here on out. laura Re: Outcast and fall out I really feel for you. It is hard to accept the fact that we will never have the family we yearn for. I don't think informing them is going to help. They will just turn it around on you and hurt you more. I would just limit the information I am willing to share and make any future communication/ contact superficial. Like being polite to the person at work that you can't stand. If you tell them about your life, you only invite their criticism. If you tell them about your feelings, you invite their punishment. Protect yourself from that as best you can. That is what I do right now with my Mom. No Contact is not currently an option for me. I just keep the conversation superficial, and the visits short. Good Luck to you!! By the way, the family you are yearning for. You have that family - it is you and your Son. Be the best mom you can and seek validation in having a happy and healthy child. I know what it feels like to yearn for the affection and approval of your Mom. You have to face the fact that she in not capable of giving you either of those things and it is NOT your fault! > > I need some help. > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is > totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. > She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter > and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am > to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a > condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my > brother and his wife. > They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like > garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play > along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she > wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop > telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an > ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my > son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. > This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this > ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued > this ultimatum to get what he wants. > He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it > instead of calling him on it. > I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess > and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling > myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I > resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I > resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is > no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family > and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't > care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go > away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a > course around it, it has come to pass. > I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing > my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something > wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his > cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage > him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know > that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic > Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced > himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that > my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome > when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like > this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have > my child subjected to this dysfunction. > I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet > my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. > They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I > still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to > bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing > myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being > unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not > happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to > act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I > want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that > is frustrating in the extreme for me. > I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not > want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to > deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what > a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all > comments. > Be strong > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Yep. I am going to start doing more things with my son's class mates. There will not be a birthday invitation that won't be accepted. I need to expand my circle of friends and I will do the same for him. Re: Outcast and fall out also, i don't know what kind of circle of friends your son has, but it seems like a good idea to me to make sure that his cousin would only be a very small part of that circle. it's no good for him to feel rejected because her dad is a prick. bink > > > > I need some help. > > > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is > > totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. > > She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter > > and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am > > to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a > > condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my > > brother and his wife. > > They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like > > garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play > > along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she > > wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop > > telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an > > ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my > > son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. > > This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this > > ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued > > this ultimatum to get what he wants. > > He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it > > instead of calling him on it. > > I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess > > and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling > > myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I > > resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I > > resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is > > no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family > > and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't > > care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go > > away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a > > course around it, it has come to pass. > > I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing > > my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something > > wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his > > cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage > > him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know > > that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic > > Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced > > himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that > > my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome > > when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like > > this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have > > my child subjected to this dysfunction. > > I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet > > my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. > > They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I > > still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to > > bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing > > myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being > > unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not > > happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to > > act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I > > want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that > > is frustrating in the extreme for me. > > I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not > > want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to > > deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what > > a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all > > comments. > > Be strong > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Spot on bink. The more I hear this the better it sounds. I just lost my way for a moment. Temporary. I'm back on track now. Thank you so much. Re: Outcast and fall out hold on just a second. there are other alternatives to giving an ultimatum. i know you feel backed into a corner and constantly attacked by your brother, but if i'm remembering correctly, your mom is in control of your inheritance. taking all this into consideration, here is what i would do. 1) i would not attend anything my brother is at. no play-dates with your niece, no nothing. at this point, your niece stands the chance of being painted white OR black by your brother, and either way, she might also need an emotional outlet at some point and start picking on your son just like she sees her dad to do you. lame. 2) i would not talk to my mom about anything important. i would stop talking about your brother altogether. you don't trust your mom. you shouldn't trust your mom. no matter what you do, your mom is going to talk about you to your brother if you make yourself interesting. so one solution is to not make yourself interesting. it's kind of a drag (i haven't told my mom anything about myself in close to a year; the bigger drag, though is that she hasn't asked), but it does the job and it's LESS of a drag than being talked about. bink > > I need some help. > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is > totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. > She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter > and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am > to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a > condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my > brother and his wife.. > They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like > garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play > along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she > wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop > telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an > ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my > son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. > This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this > ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued > this ultimatum to get what he wants. > He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it > instead of calling him on it. > I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess > and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling > myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I > resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I > resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is > no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family > and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't > care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go > away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a > course around it, it has come to pass. > I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing > my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something > wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his > cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage > him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know > that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic > Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced > himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that > my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome > when it is the last thing I want.. But I will not be treated like > this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have > my child subjected to this dysfunction. > I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet > my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. > They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I > still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to > bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing > myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being > unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not > happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to > act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I > want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that > is frustrating in the extreme for me. > I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not > want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to > deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what > a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all > comments. > Be strong > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I soooo understand that out of control feeling you get when you feel like you " must do something. " I'm going through a similar situation (it even involves a brother--don't know if he is BPD, but my therapist says he probably has a " hostile attachment " to my mother--not sure what that means, but I'm working on it!!!) It sounds like you've decided to set some good boundaries to protect yourself and your son(ie. n/c with brother and limited information to nada). Just be prepared: Your boundaries will give you control and the more control you have the more out of control they may get. As they up the ante, you may have to continue to set more boundaries. The more you try to diffuse the situation, the more they will escalate. And though I sincerely hope it won't, it may get nasty and more painful. Be strong girlfriend! Tallulah Subject: Re: Outcast and fall out To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 5:51 PM Thank you so much, it helps to hear this. I am not the person to abandon a problem, but I accept that I cannot control how they think of me and nothing I do or say will change anything. I am going NC with my brother. Oddly enough he contacted me today to tell me that he had seen some jobs that I was interested in come open and wanted to let me know. I thanked him in a neutral voice and got off the phone as fast as possible without being rude. I will never engage him again. As for nada, I will never trust her again. I will keep her informed but not go into details, I will not confide in her or expect anything of her. I am beginning to feel better, but it will take some work. I still resent like hell being put in this situation and I will take the first job that comes along that offers decent pay and health care no matter where it is. I did have to turn down a position that was in Singapore, that is a little farther than I want to run. I will not relinquish anything that is mine but I will work to decrease my footprint in their lives. If nada gets sick she is on her own, my brother can take care of her. Thanks Outcast and fall out I need some help. I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my brother and his wife. They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life.. This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued this ultimatum to get what he wants. He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it instead of calling him on it. I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a course around it, it has come to pass. I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have my child subjected to this dysfunction. I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that is frustrating in the extreme for me. I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all comments. Be strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I suspect that my dad was a control freak. I remember him being very rigid and that upon reflection he had no clue how to parent. I don't know that he was a Narc but he was definitely authotarian and tolerated no questions of his right to treat me any way he wanted to. I know that my bada emulates him, but in the worst sort of way. My dad was strict, but he wasn't a vicious bully. I know I dissapointed him alot, no matter what I did. He went out of control on me twice in my life and I am still working through that. Mom is a high functioning BPD and I suspect she always treated me like a sister rather than a daughter. She was competitive with me and very cruel as I was growing up. She SEEMS to be getting a little better, but I am questioning that. Brother is threatened by me and is a NARCISSIST, full blown. The entire blow up was about what a bitch I was to him and how he was blameless in everything. He went off the deep end and I now know he is unstable. This is not going to happen again. Be strong Re: Outcast and fall out > > I need some help. > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. - My heart goes out to you. Before Christmas, I was given an ultimatum (in an e-mail) by my parents that if I continued to associate with my Uncle, they " no longer have a daughter. " My choice at that time (not quite yet realizing I was dealing with a BPD mother - I would make the discovery within a week of that ultimatum), was to accept them disowning me although it wasn't easy. I responded that they had no right to make that request. Your case is different in the sense that your brother is doing the whole triangulation thing. I couldn't tell from your post how exactly your Dad fits into the picture (probably I should read your old posts) - I am assuming he is the original BPD-NPD and that your mom is the willing enabler to all parties. In my case, my Dad is the enabler...he uses the excuse that he is " supporting " his wife's destructive behavior. You have the right to set boundaries. Understand that really, because of what you are dealing with, the boundaries are more for you. Your BPD brother will not accept boundaries. You can't control that. You can choose how to respond. Your mother may or may not choose to honor your boundaries. Again, you can't control that either. She is being manipulated by the situation. But she is an adult and in theory, fully capable of making her own decisions irrespective of your brother. The hard part about this is not yourself feeling badly because she may make the choice to side with your brother. Understand that is her dysfunction and in no way a reflection on you. If she were a mother in the true sense, you would not be at this point with her. As painful as it is, remember YOU DESERVE MUCH BETTER. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. You have every right to happiness in your life. You don't " owe " them an explanation should you just choose to step back from the situation. If you would feel better communicating it in writing to them, then do so. Don't worry about their feelings at this point, you can't control that. Think about how you will feel. I chose to communicate back to my parents in writing because it gave me the safety of distance. My Nada had baited me into argument after argument for 1.5 years intensively plus on and off since the day I was born. I needed the distance and time to think through my response and chose to write. If you feel more comfortable speaking with your mom, then do that. It may be in your case that the whole triangulation thing with your brother makes putting things in writing more of a way for them to create more chaos. Bottom line - do what YOU want. How it is received cannot be controlled. I know what you are going through is heart breaking. For me it was as if my parents had died. In reality, that's what really happened...my wish for a genuine relationship with them will never come to pass. That's a very hard thing to come to terms with. Like you, I was devastated. I can tell you that 7 months later I'm much better. I still have my moments, but I am working on me and leaving the rest alone. Take care of yourself- JJFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hey, I hear you about " I will have to rely on my self alone. " I went through a very very hard few years in my twenties when I realized my family was NOT THERE FOR ME. I finished college, bought a home and started a life. All around me, young people like me had their parent's helping them with home improvements, down payments, dog sitting, babysitting etc. This is when I decided I would not have children - because who would help me through the pregnancy, delivery, babysitting? My parents only called when they needed something from me and it was never reciprocated. I changed my life after I accepted it and stopped expecting their help, but it hurt. It's still hard. For some reason, the very worst is not having anyone to watch my dogs if I leave town. I still feel very emotional about that even all these years. I also still get sad and down when I see someone doing something for their adult child. I feel so cheated. I think we have to realize that we are alone in the universe and then start building our lives from there. But it is a very very scary thing to realize. xo, girlscout > Spot on bink. The more I hear this the better it sounds. I just lost my way > for a moment. Temporary. I'm back on track now. Thank you so much. > > > > Re: Outcast and fall out > > > hold on just a second. > > there are other alternatives to giving an ultimatum. i know you feel > backed into a corner and constantly attacked by your brother, but if > i'm remembering correctly, your mom is in control of your inheritance. > > taking all this into consideration, here is what i would do. > > 1) i would not attend anything my brother is at. no play-dates with > your niece, no nothing. at this point, your niece stands the chance > of being painted white OR black by your brother, and either way, she > might also need an emotional outlet at some point and start picking on > your son just like she sees her dad to do you. lame. > > 2) i would not talk to my mom about anything important. i would stop > talking about your brother altogether. you don't trust your mom. you > shouldn't trust your mom. no matter what you do, your mom is going to > talk about you to your brother if you make yourself interesting. so > one solution is to not make yourself interesting. it's kind of a drag > (i haven't told my mom anything about myself in close to a year; the > bigger drag, though is that she hasn't asked), but it does the job and > it's LESS of a drag than being talked about. > > bink > > > > > > I need some help. > > > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is > > totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. > > She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter > > and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am > > to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a > > condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my > > brother and his wife.. > > They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like > > garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play > > along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she > > wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop > > telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an > > ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my > > son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. > > This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this > > ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued > > this ultimatum to get what he wants. > > He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it > > instead of calling him on it. > > I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess > > and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling > > myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I > > resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I > > resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is > > no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family > > and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't > > care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go > > away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a > > course around it, it has come to pass. > > I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing > > my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something > > wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his > > cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage > > him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know > > that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic > > Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced > > himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that > > my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome > > when it is the last thing I want.. But I will not be treated like > > this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have > > my child subjected to this dysfunction. > > I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet > > my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. > > They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I > > still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to > > bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing > > myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being > > unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not > > happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to > > act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I > > want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that > > is frustrating in the extreme for me. > > I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not > > want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to > > deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what > > a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all > > comments. > > Be strong > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 This sounds just like my family!!! We all live in different cities, so I don't think I'm in the pressure cooker you're in. Tallulah Subject: Re: Re: Outcast and fall out To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 6:52 PM I suspect that my dad was a control freak. I remember him being very rigid and that upon reflection he had no clue how to parent. I don't know that he was a Narc but he was definitely authotarian and tolerated no questions of his right to treat me any way he wanted to. I know that my bada emulates him, but in the worst sort of way. My dad was strict, but he wasn't a vicious bully. I know I dissapointed him alot, no matter what I did. He went out of control on me twice in my life and I am still working through that. Mom is a high functioning BPD and I suspect she always treated me like a sister rather than a daughter. She was competitive with me and very cruel as I was growing up. She SEEMS to be getting a little better, but I am questioning that. Brother is threatened by me and is a NARCISSIST, full blown. The entire blow up was about what a bitch I was to him and how he was blameless in everything. He went off the deep end and I now know he is unstable. This is not going to happen again. Be strong Re: Outcast and fall out > > I need some help. > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. - My heart goes out to you. Before Christmas, I was given an ultimatum (in an e-mail) by my parents that if I continued to associate with my Uncle, they " no longer have a daughter. " My choice at that time (not quite yet realizing I was dealing with a BPD mother - I would make the discovery within a week of that ultimatum), was to accept them disowning me although it wasn't easy. I responded that they had no right to make that request. Your case is different in the sense that your brother is doing the whole triangulation thing. I couldn't tell from your post how exactly your Dad fits into the picture (probably I should read your old posts) - I am assuming he is the original BPD-NPD and that your mom is the willing enabler to all parties. In my case, my Dad is the enabler...he uses the excuse that he is " supporting " his wife's destructive behavior. You have the right to set boundaries. Understand that really, because of what you are dealing with, the boundaries are more for you. Your BPD brother will not accept boundaries. You can't control that. You can choose how to respond. Your mother may or may not choose to honor your boundaries. Again, you can't control that either. She is being manipulated by the situation. But she is an adult and in theory, fully capable of making her own decisions irrespective of your brother. The hard part about this is not yourself feeling badly because she may make the choice to side with your brother. Understand that is her dysfunction and in no way a reflection on you. If she were a mother in the true sense, you would not be at this point with her. As painful as it is, remember YOU DESERVE MUCH BETTER. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. You have every right to happiness in your life. You don't " owe " them an explanation should you just choose to step back from the situation. If you would feel better communicating it in writing to them, then do so. Don't worry about their feelings at this point, you can't control that. Think about how you will feel. I chose to communicate back to my parents in writing because it gave me the safety of distance. My Nada had baited me into argument after argument for 1.5 years intensively plus on and off since the day I was born. I needed the distance and time to think through my response and chose to write. If you feel more comfortable speaking with your mom, then do that. It may be in your case that the whole triangulation thing with your brother makes putting things in writing more of a way for them to create more chaos. Bottom line - do what YOU want. How it is received cannot be controlled. I know what you are going through is heart breaking. For me it was as if my parents had died. In reality, that's what really happened...my wish for a genuine relationship with them will never come to pass. That's a very hard thing to come to terms with. Like you, I was devastated. I can tell you that 7 months later I'm much better. I still have my moments, but I am working on me and leaving the rest alone. Take care of yourself- JJFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hostile attachment might mean agressively possessive. That is my bada, he dislikes anything that interferes the little clique he has going on with nada and acts out. He likes to appear to be the " dutiful " son, and he has it in his mind that he dotes on her. However if he has to give something up or choose between what is best for her and what he wants, she loses out every time. When she gets sick he will abandon her. He is a constant as the northern star in this regard. All I can do is sit back and let it unfold. She will end up seeing him for what he is when he leaves her alone in a hospital room to go off and buy a new toy and can't sacrifice his needs to address her medical circumstances. He has never been very good at sacrifice. As pissed off as I am now, I actually feel sorry for my nada because it is going to hit her full in the face and she will never see it coming. Be strong Outcast and fall out I need some help. I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my brother and his wife. They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop telling my brother anything about me.. My brother has given me an ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life.. This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued this ultimatum to get what he wants. He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it instead of calling him on it.. I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a course around it, it has come to pass. I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have my child subjected to this dysfunction. I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that is frustrating in the extreme for me. I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all comments. Be strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Girlscout you said: Redirect all of this energy inward. Thank you, I love that reminder. Also after you look inward you just might have already found that 'higher power' . Maybe it would help to use the word spiritiality instead of religon.?. That's what I have to use. Take Care Of You, JaneSoul Re: Outcast and fall out Hey Sweetie, I hear how hurt you are. You want a better family and you deserve it. I've been thinking about you a lot this week and the hard time you are going through. I've read that Narcs only respond to consequences/ appearances. So, he and your mother will do nothing unless they experience a consequence to them that they perceive as negative. They crave attention and do not distinguish good attention from bad. By talking to them, sharing your feelings and showing your hurt, you are unfortunatly giving them attention that they crave. Ugh. A good person would have empathy for you like we do, but the narc/bpds in your life do not have empathy at all. They have no idea what it is. I would walk away, wordlessly. They may be bigger people than they seem to be from where I am standing and come to you. But don't count on it. Redirect all of this energy inward for yourself and your son.. Don't let them steal your energy. Forget them and build a life without them. And, the books suggest releasing your mother and brother to a higher power. You will have to accept that you don't have the power to change them and you will never make them see. I hope and pray that there is a higher power who will deal with my family, but it isn't my responsiblity and it isn't within my abilities. It's hard for me to think about the higher power because of what I call my nada's " church abuse " I detest religion. So far I have only gotten as far as picturing the higher power as a giant light, sort of like a flying saucer circling over her and then - who knows what? An anal probe perhaps? ha ha. Much love, girlscout On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Cook <ksc_badchild@ yahoo.com> wrote: > I found that the best thing to do for me was to take a step back from > everything and stop making contact with my nada and brother. It has been > over a year since I heard from my nada and close to a year for my brother. > My father became very ill last year; since my father's illness my brother's > negative behavior towards me has excalated. > > Basically, my brother has turned into my father. My brother is very > judgemental and mean, emailed me that I am selfish because I am not running > to take care of nada's every anticipated need. My brother now defends my > mother and acts like I am the crazy one. This same brother was at my house > every weekend for years because he could not stand being home (brother still > lived with parents) and walking into the " Human Buzz Saw. " This is how HE > described my mother. My brother is very NPD since my father took ill and > cannot defend my nada's behavior. > > You cannot have a rational conversation with either my brother or nada. > They seem to now feed off of each other and confirm that I am the bad one > for wanting my nada to stop attacking me (verbally + physically + > emotionally) . My brother has the opinion of how dare I defend myself, > mother's needs are the only ones that matter. > > I believe in karma and they deserve each other. My son is much happier now > without all the drama and even told me yesterday what a great mom I am. > > If I sent my nada a letter, she would most likely wear it around her neck > as jewely so she could tell everyone what a bitch I am -- look at this > letter my daughter sent me. The letter would only serve to support her role > as a victim and my role as the bitch. A letter may even invoke negative > messages on my home answering machine -- the point of these messages would > be to prove to my son what a bitch I am. > > Sometimes walking away quielty is the best solution. Good luck and I feel > for you. > > > lillyblue62 <lillyblue62@ yahoo.com <lillyblue62% 40yahoo.com> > wrote: > I need some help. > > I have a dilemma. I want to inform my family that if they wish to cut > me out of their lives that it is their choice to do so. I don't want > it but I cannot stop them; in fact I recognize that they have been > looking for an excuse to do so for a very long time now. My mother is > totally enmeshed with my brother. Anything he does is fine with her. > She will support him even if it means the destruction of her daughter > and grandson. I want to be the bigger person about this, but if I am > to continue to have a relationship with my nada it comes with a > condition. I do not want her discussing any aspect of my life with my > brother and his wife. > They are the ones who have decided that I need to be discarded like > garbage. They are the ones setting this up and I do not want to play > along. I do not know how to approach her and let her know that if she > wants to continue to have anything to do with me she has to stop > telling my brother anything about me. My brother has given me an > ultimatum: either I shut up about how his behavior affects me and my > son and just get over the resentment, or I am cut out of his life. > This is a reoccurring pattern in my family. My father issued this > ultimatum when I got bad grades and now my brother has also issued > this ultimatum to get what he wants. > He is modeling bad behavior and I know my mother will support it > instead of calling him on it. > I am inclined to say nothing and disentangle myself from this mess > and yet I am having a very hard time with this route. I keep telling > myself that this will cause the least amount of trouble and yet I > resent the unfairness of it all, and I want them to know that I > resent it. This is what I am talking about. This behavior. There is > no working this out, I have been judged and sentenced by my family > and I have had no opportunity to defend myself. In fact they don't > care that this is hurting me in the extreme and just want me to go > away. This is my worst fear and even though I have tried to chart a > course around it, it has come to pass. > I have been crying a great deal the last few days and have been doing > my best to keep my distress from my son. He knows there is something > wrong, but he has enough to deal with already. He talks about his > cousin everyday, and my heart breaks because my brother will savage > him the same way he has just savaged me. I want my brother to know > that there are consequences to his actions, but like a classic > Narcissist he sees only what he wants to see and has convinced > himself that I, and I alone, am the problem. It breaks my heart that > my mother will go along with him and then blame me for the outcome > when it is the last thing I want. But I will not be treated like > this. I will not be talked about behind my back and I will not have > my child subjected to this dysfunction. > I want to make them understand the destructiveness of this, and yet > my more practical side knows that there is nothing I can do about it. > They will do what they will and deny me the same avenue of action. I > still have some things at my mother's house that I will begin to > bring to my home bit by bit. I will do nothing abruptly. I am bracing > myself for what is to come. I will be told that I am being > unreasonable and yet it is they who need therapy. That will not > happen. I am on my own. I can't see beyond my hurt and do not want to > act out and give them additional fuel to justify their actions. I > want constructive change and I know that there will be none and that > is frustrating in the extreme for me. > I have lost perspective here and that is also unsettling. I do not > want this situation to get worse for my son's sake and yet I want to > deal with this in a healthy manner. My problem is I do not know what > a healthy response to this situation is. I welcome any and all > comments. > Be strong > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 wow, , I know this is an incredibly difficult place for you to be in. It sounds to me you are right where you are supposed to be, not in denial about any of it, even your resistance to it. I know once you move beyond their twisted perspective of you everything will become more clear, the mirror of theirs that you see your reflection in is warped. I am sorry you are in such pain over it but I admire the bravery it takes for you to face the feelings and walk through it. (((Hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 It has been very hard. I just had a conversation with my mother and she was very cold towards me. I have been sick with allergies and I know I did not sound chipper. I told her I had been sick and she was basically whatever, later. It hurts so much. I know that she and my brother have been talking. So I guess it is official. I am out of the family. Anything I say will be twisted back on me. I just have to work through it and stay away from them until it passes over. It will be a very long time. What kills me is how judgemental they both are of me and yet they don't see anything wrong with how they team up and freeze me out for being hurt by their actions. As I was talking to my mother, I wanted to tell her how hurt I was and yet the colder she got the more I realize that it just didn't matter at all to her. All I have ever asked for is respect and support when things get rough as I have been supportive of them when things were rough in their lives. And I am seen as a troublemaker for it. It literally makes me sick to my stomach..There is no one who will step in and say this is not right, except me. It has been this way my entire life, there has always been that you accept the way we view you and treat you or you are erased from our lives. The conditions for their love has always been we get to be outselves and you get to be nothing. If you don't like it, you are gone. So here I am my worst fear realized and it sucks. This is how it goes when you shed your role and demand that they accept you unconditionally. It is going to get much much worse. All I can do is realize that it is not me. I am not crazy, I'm not selfish and I am not hurtful. I just want to resolve the conflict so that I don't hurt anymore, but I realize that it goes against their agenda and their twisted view of me. I am the black child, I have done nothing wrong and have only stood up for myself and my child and I am treated with distain. I contiue to work on getting over it. Be strong Re: Outcast and fall out wow, , I know this is an incredibly difficult place for you to be in. It sounds to me you are right where you are supposed to be, not in denial about any of it, even your resistance to it. I know once you move beyond their twisted perspective of you everything will become more clear, the mirror of theirs that you see your reflection in is warped. I am sorry you are in such pain over it but I admire the bravery it takes for you to face the feelings and walk through it. (((Hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 Hugs, . I am sorry you are in so much pain. It is so wrong, and I haven't found any place anywhere where people understand exactly what this is like except here. It makes me really angry they are treating you this way, because you and your son both deserve so much better, you deserve to be loved unconditionally. I know eventually you will encounter people out there who can return the love you give them and love you like you deserve to be loved, these 2 broken, miserable folks seem to get satisfaction from hurting you, how sad for both of them (((Hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 Hey , How you doing today? It's a new day right? I had a dark day yesterday (I always saw my dad on July 4th before NC) plus the meds changes and the weight and the new diet and it is very very hot here at home. Anyway, it is a new day, hope that it brings you some new hope. > Hugs, . I am sorry you are in so much pain. It is so wrong, and I > haven't found any place anywhere where people understand exactly what > this is like except here. It makes me really angry they are treating > you this way, because you and your son both deserve so much better, > you deserve to be loved unconditionally. I know eventually you will > encounter people out there who can return the love you give them and > love you like you deserve to be loved, these 2 broken, miserable folks > seem to get satisfaction from hurting you, how sad for both of them > (((Hugs))) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 It comes and goes. I had another low day yesterday. I spoke with my nada because a great deal of what my brother said was weighing on my mind dispite all efforts to root it out. MISTAKE, MISTAKE, MISTAKE. I should know better.. But the positive thing that came out of it is that my nada insisted that she does not see me as a burden on her. It was a small thing, but it brightened up my mind set. Then she busted it by telling me she would talk to my bada about it and I begged her not to. Her response, " I can't promise you that. " I told her it would make things much worse between him and I, and that all I wanted was to be reassured that she did not view me in the same manner that my bada viewed me. She still insisted that she would talk to him no matter what I wanted. Two steps forward, three steps back. There is nothing I can do but sit this one out and learn my lesson. I now have a clear understanding of where the boundaries are in my nada's life and in my bada's life. It is like a trap. I keep falling into and just can't seem to avoid. I am looking like crazy for a therapist that has an understanding of BPD and cannot find one. I need help to get over this and my family is of no help. They don't see that anything is wrong with them and still continue to dump this on my head. Intellectually, I understand what is going on and that the tag team is about to descend on me, emotionally, I am devestated. It is a new day and I go on. One foot in front of the other, just feeling my way through the fog. Thanks GS. You are the sweetest. On a way up there positive note, I took my son to see the fire works on Town lake in Austin, Texas and he had a ripping good time. They were amazing and it was worth a two mile walk because we could not find any parking closer. It rocked big time. You should have seen my boy, he yelled himself horse. I am comitting to providing him more experiences like this. By ourselves and on our own. Be strong Re: Re: Outcast and fall out Hey , How you doing today? It's a new day right? I had a dark day yesterday (I always saw my dad on July 4th before NC) plus the meds changes and the weight and the new diet and it is very very hot here at home. Anyway, it is a new day, hope that it brings you some new hope. On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 2:43 AM, mayalisa728 <mayalisa728@ yahoo.com> wrote: > Hugs, . I am sorry you are in so much pain. It is so wrong, and I > haven't found any place anywhere where people understand exactly what > this is like except here. It makes me really angry they are treating > you this way, because you and your son both deserve so much better, > you deserve to be loved unconditionally. I know eventually you will > encounter people out there who can return the love you give them and > love you like you deserve to be loved, these 2 broken, miserable folks > seem to get satisfaction from hurting you, how sad for both of them > (((Hugs))) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 that's awesome that you and your son got out to the lake. when i was living in austin, town lake was one of my favorite places to go (barton springs was the other favorite spot). having great experiences by yourselves or with friends is way better for you AND your son than dealing with your mom and brother. they totally suck. don't deserve your time, anyway. bink > > > Hugs, . I am sorry you are in so much pain. It is so wrong, and I > > haven't found any place anywhere where people understand exactly what > > this is like except here. It makes me really angry they are treating > > you this way, because you and your son both deserve so much better, > > you deserve to be loved unconditionally. I know eventually you will > > encounter people out there who can return the love you give them and > > love you like you deserve to be loved, these 2 broken, miserable folks > > seem to get satisfaction from hurting you, how sad for both of them > > (((Hugs))) > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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