RE: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

[Guest guest]

lana.m.gibbons@... writes:

> Is the raw movement overshadowing the grass fed movement? If you have the

> choice between grass fed and raw, which is more important? I would honestly

> think the grass feeding would be the most important thing>>

In a perfect world...I would like my cow to have dined only on timothy,

sweetfern and no brome and no bitter weeds. Of course, lots of people have died

(in

years past) from field pastured cows which ate the accumulative poison White

Snakeroot. Abe Lincoln's mother died from that. In the real life settings I

observe, the farmer's cows appear to be grazing in pastures that do have some

undesireable weeds which I can physically see, there. On balance, I would think

this is still " cleaner " than grains bought commercially (for the cow to eat).

.. </HTML>

[Guest guest]

I'm going to CA in a couple of weeks. Can you tell me which brand of raw

milk you prefer and where you bought it?

Thank you!

Leah

On 6/20/07, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> I've been in CA the last week and I've had access to several brands of raw

> milk. I am noticing that lots of them still taste grain fed, even those

> which are supposedly pastured. I've only found one brand that is truly

> grass fed and raw and this concerns me.

>

> Is the raw movement overshadowing the grass fed movement? If you have the

> choice between grass fed and raw, which is more important? I would

> honestly

> think the grass feeding would be the most important thing, but seeing the

> wap web address on this one " pastured " brand that uses " natural feeds "

> seems

> to indicate otherwise. The microbial populations from grain to grass fed

> are so different - I don't even know if I would want raw grain fed milk.

> Shouldn't WAP approval be reserved for only those products which are both

> grass fed and raw? I'm so confused...

>

> -Lana

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lana-

> Is the raw movement overshadowing the grass fed movement? If you

> have the

> choice between grass fed and raw, which is more important?

They're both so important that IMO it's hard to pick between them.

When I go to L.A., I'm always disappointed by the poor quality of

available raw milk and cream, so I second the question: what do you

recommend?

-

[Guest guest]

I hate to bring this up again but this was the issue down here in Florida

regarding the chapter leader/farmer with the milk that was not 100% grass

fed. Of course some of it was due to the cover up of it but bottom line

this is where Sally Fallon stood on the issue here. She is more concerned

about the raw movement than the 100% grass fed issue even though both her

and Enig have a paper on the WAPF website about the " Splendor from the

Grass " http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/splendor.html. But, I don't know

if her Action Alert was more to side with/back the chapter leader or if she

really feels that the raw is more important than the grass fed issue. I

think everyone needs to do their own homework on this issue as I have done,

as I have come to the conclusion that I " personally " only want grass fed

milk and meat. As soon as grains enter the picture the benefits quickly

drop. The CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) starts dwindling as well as the

omega 3's start to get out of whack and the omega 6's start to take over.

I think this is a decision we all have to make for our families. I will

tell you this though, of the families down here that drank the milk from

cows fed grains as well as citrus pulp, they did see a deterioration in

their families health. Several families' who had only given their children

100% grass fed milk all their lives, noticed more colds, etc. the year they

were on the other milk.

I know that Mark McAfee from Organic Pastures who is also the largest raw

milk producer in CA is 100% grass fed. So, if I was in CA and could buy

milk at the store I would look for his milk.

JMO

All7yn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Idol

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:51 AM

Subject: Re: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

Lana-

> Is the raw movement overshadowing the grass fed movement? If you

> have the

> choice between grass fed and raw, which is more important?

They're both so important that IMO it's hard to pick between them.

When I go to L.A., I'm always disappointed by the poor quality of

available raw milk and cream, so I second the question: what do you

recommend?

-

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>>>>>> >>>>>....

>

> I know that Mark McAfee from Organic Pastures who is also the largest raw

> milk producer in CA is 100% grass fed. So, if I was in CA and could buy

> milk at the store I would look for his milk.

>

> JMO

>

> All7yn>>>>>>

>

> Can you verify that? I have seen several posts over the years insisting that

> Organic Pastures does use some grain. There is nothing on their site about it,

> but I¹d really like to find out if this is misinformation. This is the only

> raw milk that I can get here in San Francisco, other than occasionally

> Claravale, which most definitely uses grain.

>

[Guest guest]

Here's a little more than anyone might want to know about eating hay.

Particularly in the west and midwest, today farmers fold their hay into gigantic

bales. They may weigh a ton or more. And farmers have pointed out to me that the

inner of these huge bales is stinky, moldy, rotting hay. It's baled green. But,

the surprisingly thing they tell me is that their cows just LOVE the taste of

that interior (moldy) hay.

.. </HTML>

[Guest guest]

These are both among the brands I have tried. Claravale is the brand that

tastes most like 100% grass fed to me. AFAIK all milk producers use some

small amount of grain because it is hard to get the cows in the milking

barns without baiting them with some form of food, so I doubt 100% ever

really means 100%...

Although, it really tastes like there is a lot more grain in Organic

Pastures than there is in the Claravale. (So much so that it tastes like

standard store-bought organic milk.) I called Organic Pastures and asked

and was told " 100% pasture grazed " but when I inquired as to if they ever

got grain, I was told they would have to ask and call me back. I'm curious:

is " 100% pasture grazed " is the same as " 100% grass fed " ? I'll let you guys

know when they get back to me.

-Lana

>

> >

> > Can you verify that? I have seen several posts over the years insisting

> that

> > Organic Pastures does use some grain. There is nothing on their site

> about it,

> > but I¹d really like to find out if this is misinformation. This is the

> only

> > raw milk that I can get here in San Francisco, other than occasionally

> > Claravale, which most definitely uses grain.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Mark McAfee has been in Florida and has spoken several times about his milk

and from what I know he is adamant he is 100% grass fed. No Grains.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:45 AM

Subject: Re: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

These are both among the brands I have tried. Claravale is the brand that

tastes most like 100% grass fed to me. AFAIK all milk producers use some

small amount of grain because it is hard to get the cows in the milking

barns without baiting them with some form of food, so I doubt 100% ever

really means 100%...

Although, it really tastes like there is a lot more grain in Organic

Pastures than there is in the Claravale. (So much so that it tastes like

standard store-bought organic milk.) I called Organic Pastures and asked

and was told " 100% pasture grazed " but when I inquired as to if they ever

got grain, I was told they would have to ask and call me back. I'm curious:

is " 100% pasture grazed " is the same as " 100% grass fed " ? I'll let you guys

know when they get back to me.

-Lana

>

> >

> > Can you verify that? I have seen several posts over the years insisting

> that

> > Organic Pastures does use some grain. There is nothing on their site

> about it,

> > but I¹d really like to find out if this is misinformation. This is the

> only

> > raw milk that I can get here in San Francisco, other than occasionally

> > Claravale, which most definitely uses grain.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have a bottle in my fridge that doesn't taste like it is 100% grass fed -

not even remotely close.

Is it possible the pasture was dry for a week and they supplemented the feed

with something? I don't know, that's why I called them to ask.

-Lana

On 6/21/07, ALLYN FERRIS <aferris7272@...> wrote:

>

> Mark McAfee has been in Florida and has spoken several times about his

> milk

> and from what I know he is adamant he is 100% grass fed. No Grains.

>

> Allyn

>

>

[Guest guest]

Claravale, as I recall, used to have on their site, a response to the question

of whether they used grain. They said that they did (I forget the exact details)

and claimed that it was because it tasted better. When I went to their site

yesterday, I didn't see this. But I thought that it was known that they feed

their cows grain.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: " Lana Gibbons " <lana.m.gibbons@...>

> These are both among the brands I have tried. Claravale is the brand that

> tastes most like 100% grass fed to me. AFAIK all milk producers use some

> small amount of grain because it is hard to get the cows in the milking

> barns without baiting them with some form of food, so I doubt 100% ever

> really means 100%...

>

> Although, it really tastes like there is a lot more grain in Organic

> Pastures than there is in the Claravale. (So much so that it tastes like

> standard store-bought organic milk.) I called Organic Pastures and asked

> and was told " 100% pasture grazed " but when I inquired as to if they ever

> got grain, I was told they would have to ask and call me back. I'm curious:

> is " 100% pasture grazed " is the same as " 100% grass fed " ? I'll let you guys

> know when they get back to me.

>

> -Lana

>

> >

> > >

> > > Can you verify that? I have seen several posts over the years insisting

> > that

> > > Organic Pastures does use some grain. There is nothing on their site

> > about it,

> > > but I¹d really like to find out if this is misinformation. This is the

> > only

> > > raw milk that I can get here in San Francisco, other than occasionally

> > > Claravale, which most definitely uses grain.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

From what I can tell from the taste of the milk: Claravale's pasture must be

bitter and what grain they are using isn't enough to sweeten the milk up to

a " normal " level. The milk tastes very grassy, so I have a hard time

believing the grain is anything more than supplemental. This milk must be

really bitter without grain feeding...

-Lana

On 6/21/07, implode7@... <implode7@...> wrote:

>

>

> Claravale, as I recall, used to have on their site, a response to the

> question of whether they used grain. They said that they did (I forget the

> exact details) and claimed that it was because it tasted better. When I went

> to their site yesterday, I didn't see this. But I thought that it was known

> that they feed their cows grain.

>

>

[Guest guest]

" At Claravale Farm we treat our cows with old fashioned kindness and respect.

We feed them nothing but hay and grain and house them in comfortable quarters. "

" Ron keeps the herd to a little less than fifty cows. Because he produces raw

milk, his herd is inspected by the state Department of Agriculture and the state

veterinarian far more regularly and strictly than conventional dairies. Ron is

proud of the fact that the ONLY thing he does to his milk is remove the cream

when people prefer skim milk. He raises Jersey cows, rather than the more common

Holstein, even though the production is lower, because Jersy milk contains

higher concentrations of proteins, solids, butterfat, and beta-caroteen.

The girls eat nothing but hay and grain, and when one of them gets sick and

needs medication (as we all do from time to time), she is taken off of the

milking line until she is well again, and off of medications. Nothing is done to

artificially increase the production of milk. "

The first quote is from their site....

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: " Lana Gibbons " <lana.m.gibbons@...>

> From what I can tell from the taste of the milk: Claravale's pasture must be

> bitter and what grain they are using isn't enough to sweeten the milk up to

> a " normal " level. The milk tastes very grassy, so I have a hard time

> believing the grain is anything more than supplemental. This milk must be

> really bitter without grain feeding...

>

> -Lana

>

> On 6/21/07, implode7@... <implode7@...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Claravale, as I recall, used to have on their site, a response to the

> > question of whether they used grain. They said that they did (I forget the

> > exact details) and claimed that it was because it tasted better. When I went

> > to their site yesterday, I didn't see this. But I thought that it was known

> > that they feed their cows grain.

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am curious how you can tell by taste. I have drunk the other milk that I

know was grain fed and I really could not tell that much difference. I do

notice my milk will change in taste, somewhat, through the year as most of

what I drink now is from Pennsylvania but I have drunk milk from local

farmers as well. The farmer I get most of milk from in PA gives his cows

silage (dried hay) in the winter. My local farmer gives his cows kelp and

some hay but that's it.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:01 PM

Subject: Re: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

I have a bottle in my fridge that doesn't taste like it is 100% grass fed -

not even remotely close.

Is it possible the pasture was dry for a week and they supplemented the feed

with something? I don't know, that's why I called them to ask.

-Lana

On 6/21/07, ALLYN FERRIS <aferris7272@ <mailto:aferris7272%40verizon.net>

verizon.net> wrote:

>

> Mark McAfee has been in Florida and has spoken several times about his

> milk

> and from what I know he is adamant he is 100% grass fed. No Grains.

>

> Allyn

>

>

[Guest guest]

From what I know he used to give a small amount of grain but in recent years

claims to feed none. He said this at a meeting here but I have nothing other

than that.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Gene Schwartz

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:19 AM

Subject: Re: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

>

>

>

>>>>>> >>>>>....

>

> I know that Mark McAfee from Organic Pastures who is also the largest raw

> milk producer in CA is 100% grass fed. So, if I was in CA and could buy

> milk at the store I would look for his milk.

>

> JMO

>

> All7yn>>>>>>

>

> Can you verify that? I have seen several posts over the years insisting

that

> Organic Pastures does use some grain. There is nothing on their site about

it,

> but I¹d really like to find out if this is misinformation. This is the

only

> raw milk that I can get here in San Francisco, other than occasionally

> Claravale, which most definitely uses grain.

>

[Guest guest]

On this page http://www.organicpastures.com/about.html of his website,

second paragraph, first sentence, states 100% PASTURE GRAZED RAW MILK.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Gene Schwartz

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:19 AM

Subject: Re: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

>

>

>

>>>>>> >>>>>....

>

> I know that Mark McAfee from Organic Pastures who is also the largest raw

> milk producer in CA is 100% grass fed. So, if I was in CA and could buy

> milk at the store I would look for his milk.

>

> JMO

>

> All7yn>>>>>>

>

> Can you verify that? I have seen several posts over the years insisting

that

> Organic Pastures does use some grain. There is nothing on their site about

it,

> but I¹d really like to find out if this is misinformation. This is the

only

> raw milk that I can get here in San Francisco, other than occasionally

> Claravale, which most definitely uses grain.

>

[Guest guest]

I was calling Organic Pastures to put in a cheese order and while on

hold the blog said they are fed grass and organic grain. When the order

taker came back on I asked her about it and she said yes, that they had

to in order to keep up with the ever expanding demand.

I have noticed also that, unlike a few years ago, there is no cream on

top.

On Jun 21, 2007, at 7:18 AM, Gene Schwartz wrote:

>> I know that Mark McAfee from Organic Pastures who is also the largest

>> raw

>> milk producer in CA is 100% grass fed. So, if I was in CA and could

>> buy

>> milk at the store I would look for his milk.

>>

>> JMO

>>

>> All7yn>>>>>>

>>

>> Can you verify that? I have seen several posts over the years

>> insisting that

>> Organic Pastures does use some grain. There is nothing on their site

>> about it,

>> but I’d really like to find out if this is misinformation. This is

>> the only

>> raw milk that I can get here in San Francisco, other than occasionally

>> Claravale, which most definitely uses grain.

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

Yes, I think they call it " fermented " .

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Chaelcon@...

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:17 PM

Subject: Re: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

Here's a little more than anyone might want to know about eating hay.

Particularly in the west and midwest, today farmers fold their hay into

gigantic

bales. They may weigh a ton or more. And farmers have pointed out to me that

the

inner of these huge bales is stinky, moldy, rotting hay. It's baled green.

But,

the surprisingly thing they tell me is that their cows just LOVE the taste

of

that interior (moldy) hay.

.. </HTML>

[Guest guest]

Hello Lana,

I LIVE in CA and am only aware of two brands of raw milk Claravale and

Organic Pastures. Please tell me what others you have found and where you

found them.

Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 9:50:05 PM, you wrote:

> Hi all,

> I've been in CA the last week and I've had access to several brands of raw

> milk. I am noticing that lots of them still taste grain fed, even those

> which are supposedly pastured. I've only found one brand that is truly

> grass fed and raw and this concerns me.

> Is the raw movement overshadowing the grass fed movement? If you have the

> choice between grass fed and raw, which is more important? I would honestly

> think the grass feeding would be the most important thing, but seeing the

> wap web address on this one " pastured " brand that uses " natural feeds " seems

> to indicate otherwise. The microbial populations from grain to grass fed

> are so different - I don't even know if I would want raw grain fed milk.

> Shouldn't WAP approval be reserved for only those products which are both

> grass fed and raw? I'm so confused...

> -Lana

>

[Guest guest]

We went to Organic Pastures last year for a visit and I remember them saying

that they feed them something else sometimes as well...maybe the husks from

their almond crop? Something like that...don't quote me.

Also, the calves got something other than milk. It was a dry  mixture of some

sort. It was in a dish in their pens.

Again, best to check with them as I don't remember exactly what they said it

was.

That said, all the milking cows were in the field eating grass. And they were

very cute. And the milk is so much cheaper to buy right there. AND you can buy

quarts of cream, which you can't in the store.

Re: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

These are both among the brands I have tried. Claravale is the brand that

astes most like 100% grass fed to me. AFAIK all milk producers use some

mall amount of grain because it is hard to get the cows in the milking

arns without baiting them with some form of food, so I doubt 100% ever

eally means 100%...

Although, it really tastes like there is a lot more grain in Organic

astures than there is in the Claravale. (So much so that it tastes like

tandard store-bought organic milk.) I called Organic Pastures and asked

nd was told " 100% pasture grazed " but when I inquired as to if they ever

ot grain, I was told they would have to ask and call me back. I'm curious:

s " 100% pasture grazed " is the same as " 100% grass fed " ? I'll let you guys

now when they get back to me.

-Lana

>

>

> Can you verify that? I have seen several posts over the years insisting

that

> Organic Pastures does use some grain. There is nothing on their site

about it,

> but I¹d really like to find out if this is misinformation. This is the

only

> raw milk that I can get here in San Francisco, other than occasionally

> Claravale, which most definitely uses grain.

>

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[Guest guest]

Enjoyed your long interesting narrative, Jan. I have been by (but never

stopped) a lot of these farms, acreages with the giant bales of hay (sitting

there

for a year or more) out West. I never paid close attention, but I can tell you

this about that hay: it STINKS to high heaven when you go near it.

.. </HTML>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Here's a little more than anyone might want to know about eating

>hay.

> Particularly in the west and midwest, today farmers fold their hay

>into gigantic

> bales. They may weigh a ton or more. And farmers have pointed out

>to me that the

> inner of these huge bales is stinky, moldy, rotting hay. It's baled

>green. But,

> the surprisingly thing they tell me is that their cows just LOVE

>the taste of

> that interior (moldy) hay.

This is NOT the hay that is fed to 100% Grassfed cows, beef or

milking. The type of hay you described is fed to grain-fed beef cows

because it is only viewed it as 'roughage' since they believe the

cows are getting all their nutrition from the grain mix the

salesperson is selling. And it is moldy, not FERMENTED.

Hay that gets wet before it is baled molds. Hay that dries first

does not. In the Midwest and east, it is hard to get enough spring

and early summer days free of rain to dry out the hay enough for it

not to mold. In the west, it is very different; they have to bale

their hay in a matter of hours, where we take days. (I am from So.CA

and now live in WI, so I have seen both) We wait until there are

enough dry days to make hay. Some years that means the hay is

overgrown and so it will have less nutrition. Some times you luck

out, the worst is cutting and having it rain sooner than predicted.

All you can do is let it thoroughly dry before baling it. (All hay

here is also 'raked' or flipped over so it dries on both sides.)

Does that ruin it? Pretty much. However, if it is not moldy, it can

be used for bedding. If it is just over grown, or has some green

left to it, it can be used for early spring when the grasses are

growing really fast. This super lush grass can lead to " bloating " in

cows that are used to eating only dry hay. That dry, less nutritious

hay can be fed to balance the wet super lush grass they are eating

for a few days until their system gets used to the lush grass - sort

of like us coming off a diet.

Most hay used during winter for top operations in the Midwest that do

not feed grain is very high quality alfalfa/clover mix with grasses.

This is expensive and so many producers will say the cows " need "

grain in the winter, but in fact, they need better hay, even if it

cost more. (Again, bottom line, we need to pay the real price for

quality meat and milk- not below cost like we do now). The hay is

green inside and a little yellowed on the outside of the bale where

it was exposed to air. Bales kept inside barns or undercover will

have less yellow and be greener to the edges. The yellow or dry hay

will only extend a few inches. Some farmers may balance some of the

older hay with really fresh green hay. If you visit a farm, what you

do not want to see is moldy hay being fed. It can be used for other

things like blocking run-off, so don't be upset if you see some on

the farm. Nature happens, we have to use it in some way. But ask

about it.

An issue affecting grass-fed cows is if the grass and hay is

organic. Many non-organic producers spray the hay with an anti-mold

chemical to stop the mold from growing. A friend of mine had that

done, and didn't even know about it. The person who cut and baled

their hay just does it automatically for everyone. Another one of

those `industry accepted practices' that does not have to be stated,

and is even forgotten to be mentioned among friends. Herbicides,

even spot sprayed for say, thistles, and pesticides for " alfalfa bug "

can also be present in non-organic hay. Now we have GMO hay to worry

about. If the farmer does not make his own hay, and it is not

organic, there is a big risk he does not even know about these items.

Some people are fermenting the hay cut in the spring or rainy times.

This hay is chopped when cut, then put into a pile or in a silo.

Usually molasses is added to give the bacteria something to eat, so

it will ferment and not just mold. Whey corn stalks are used it is

called 'silage' the corn that gets into it has enough sugar to

provide food for the bacteria to ferment. Hay is called 'haylage'

and does not have the sugar content, so it is added in some way.

Some people feel that silage or haylage affects the taste of the milk

in the winter (I feel this way); others feel it is a more 'green'

alternative in the winter to dry hay. Some grass-fed co-ops use high

quantities of haylage as a way to fatten cattle during the winter, a

naturally lean time, so they can have fresh fattier meat all year.

This extra winter fat doesn't necessarily have the same CLAs and

Omega-3s as fresh grass, but the sugar-alcohols from the fermenting

process can help the animal keep weight/fat on, or even put more on

during winter. Perhaps a mix is good. There is lots of research and

experimentation going on to keep 100% grass-fed cattle and milk cows

producing all year. Keep an open mind, the research and results are

still a work in process.

My preference is to go 'natural' and therefore seasonal. Don't push

for fresh milk and meat in the winter. It will be optimal when

harvested after eating fresh growing grass. Be willing to pay for

quality, but ask lots of questions. Organic, 100% truly Grassfed may

be hard to find, but the more we ask the detailed questions, the more

it will become available.

~Jan

www.blackberryridgellc.com

[Guest guest]

A dairy farmer near me calls it fermenting the hay, they wrap it in

white plastic and let it sit. He also says the cows love the taste of

it. My hens go to extremes to eat rotting wood. I'm guessing there

must be something in the fungus/mold that they feel is good for them.

Who knows, maybe they're curing their lyme, detoxing environmental

poisoning, or chelating heavy metals in their natural wisdom! <GRIN>

>

> Here's a little more than anyone might want to know about eating hay.

> Particularly in the west and midwest, today farmers fold their hay

into gigantic

> bales. They may weigh a ton or more. And farmers have pointed out to

me that the

> inner of these huge bales is stinky, moldy, rotting hay. It's baled

green. But,

> the surprisingly thing they tell me is that their cows just LOVE the

taste of

> that interior (moldy) hay.

> . </HTML>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>

> ³A dairy farmer near me calls it fermenting the hay, they wrap it in

> white plastic and let it sit. He also says the cows love the taste of

> it. My hens go to extremes to eat rotting wood. I'm guessing there

> must be something in the fungus/mold that they feel is good for them....²

>

> there is no thought or feeling about what is good for them. It smells good so

> they eat it.

>

>

>> >

>> > Here's a little more than anyone might want to know about eating hay.

>> > Particularly in the west and midwest, today farmers fold their hay

> into gigantic

>> > bales. They may weigh a ton or more. And farmers have pointed out to

> me that the

>> > inner of these huge bales is stinky, moldy, rotting hay. It's baled

> green. But,

>> > the surprisingly thing they tell me is that their cows just LOVE the

> taste of

>> > that interior (moldy) hay.

>> > . </HTML>

>> >

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

Gene-

> > ³A dairy farmer near me calls it fermenting the hay, they wrap it in

> > white plastic and let it sit. He also says the cows love the

> taste of

> > it. My hens go to extremes to eat rotting wood. I'm guessing there

> > must be something in the fungus/mold that they feel is good for

> them....²

> >

> > there is no thought or feeling about what is good for them. It

> smells good so

> > they eat it.

No, but the fundamental mechanisms underlying taste and preference

evolved in response to nutritional needs and environmental

conditions, and though taste and preference can be derailed from

nutritional value easily enough, they also can reflect it accurately

in some circumstances. There have been experiments in which grazing

animals preferred more nutritious grasses and ignored less nutritious

ones, for example, and others along the same lines.

-

[Guest guest]

In New Zealand (where I come from) fresh grass is cut and piled into

huge mounds then covered with plastic, which is then called silage. It

sits until the winter, and then most milking cows eat that, fresh

grass and hay. NZ milk is considered 100% grass fed, but I wonder how

good that mouldy/fermented grass is for them??

>

> This is NOT the hay that is fed to 100% Grassfed cows, beef or

> milking. The type of hay you described is fed to grain-fed beef cows

> because it is only viewed it as 'roughage' since they believe the

> cows are getting all their nutrition from the grain mix the

> salesperson is selling. And it is moldy, not FERMENTED.

>