RE: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

[Guest guest]

Wow, interesting tidbit!! Thanks for sharing!

-Lana

> I was

> readingup on forms of K2 last night when I came upon the story of natto:

> an ancient Japanese warrior didn't have time to let his tofu cake dry

> out completely before a battle, so he wrapped it in grass/hay and put it

> in his pack. A couple of days later, he dumped out the resulting mess,

> but the horses loved it. Apparently, Bacillus subtilis natto, the

> bacteria which turns soybeans into natto, was originally a straw-loving

> bacteria. So, it seems possible that fermented hay would be higher in

> K2 (and probably several other things) than natural grass.

>

> Anyway, just a thought.

>

> Colin

>

[Guest guest]

Lana-

> This email leads me to believe " 100% pasture grazed " is not an

> equivalent

> term to " 100% grass fed " , as I had originally suspected.

Besides any issue with supplementation, " pasture fed " just means fed

on pasture, which can mean just about anything growing out in a

field. Animals turned out into a cornfield after the harvest, for

example, are being pasture-fed.

-

[Guest guest]

Allyn-

> I know several farmers here in Florida and one in Tennessee have

> mentioned

> it is hard to keep the cows weight up but the ones I buy from do

> seem to do

> ok with it. Dennis gives his cows kelp to help with the nutrients and

> minerals that our Florida soil is so lacking in and except for two

> weeks

> last winter he has never fed grains. His milk is $16 a gallon

> though so

> most people can't afford that.

$16/gallon for MILK? Great scott! How much does his heavy cream

cost???!?!!??

(Not that I'm necessarily knocking him for charging that price if his

costs and labor warrant it and his milk is good enough to deserve it,

but jeez, I can't even imagine what my dairy bill would be with him!)

-

[Guest guest]

I think I was a little high on his milk and I think it is $13 a gallon. As I

said I haven't bought from him in awhile because my other source is so much

cheaper. I did drink his milk for several years but now my daughter has

finally caught on to how good it is so we go through several gallons a week

now. That's why I buy most of my milk and cream from the PA farmers. His

cream is $16 a quart but he mostly gets that from PA because he puts so much

of his cream into the milk. The gallon is at least 1/3 cream if not more

and I have seen it to be half. He is a very conscientious farmer though

(originally from PA) and really tries to do it 100% right and goes out of

his way to teach other people how to farm. His milk is really healing for a

lot of people.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Idol

Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 6:42 PM

Subject: Re: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

Allyn-

> I know several farmers here in Florida and one in Tennessee have

> mentioned

> it is hard to keep the cows weight up but the ones I buy from do

> seem to do

> ok with it. Dennis gives his cows kelp to help with the nutrients and

> minerals that our Florida soil is so lacking in and except for two

> weeks

> last winter he has never fed grains. His milk is $16 a gallon

> though so

> most people can't afford that.

$16/gallon for MILK? Great scott! How much does his heavy cream

cost???!?!!??

(Not that I'm necessarily knocking him for charging that price if his

costs and labor warrant it and his milk is good enough to deserve it,

but jeez, I can't even imagine what my dairy bill would be with him!)

-

[Guest guest]

--- Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

> I just want to reiterate that the milk I got from OP was very good,

> it just wasn't as bitter/grassy as I was expecting

Lana,

I wonder if the bitter taste in milk that you associate with pasture

feeding cows is from weeds in the pasture and not from grass?

[Guest guest]

One of the nice things about ruminents is their ability to concentrate

otherwise rare minerals. I expect a lot of variety in greens to help serve

this purpose - so it could very well be " weeds " or some other form of grass

other than the typical pasture grasses that causes the bitter/grassy taste.

I don't think pastures should be homoginized since that reduces the number

of minerals the cows are concentrating because different plants pull

different minerals from the soil. I find 100% grassfed milk usually tastes

grassy and that bitterness fades away the more grain and other feed

additives that are supplied. But you do have an excellent point - the lack

of grassy taste could be due to pasture homoginization.

-Lana

On 6/26/07, <oz4caster@...> wrote:

>

> --- Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

> > I just want to reiterate that the milk I got from OP was very good,

> > it just wasn't as bitter/grassy as I was expecting

>

> Lana,

>

> I wonder if the bitter taste in milk that you associate with pasture

> feeding cows is from weeds in the pasture and not from grass?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

> ... the lack of grassy taste could be due to pasture homoginization.

Lana,

Maybe that would be lack of " weedy " taste if you don't get it with

milk from cows on mono culture grass fields. I guess we should avoid

milk from cows on homogenized fields as much as homogenized milk ?

Just as long as the weedy fields don't have White Snakeroot

It would be nice to know which weeds might be beneficial in the fields.

[Guest guest]

,

I would think all weeds would be beneficial to some degree, provided they

have no known negative effects (like white snakeroot). Weeds are some of

the most hardy plants out there: they can pull enough minerals to survive

even when growing in the poorest of soils. I think this is why I have

trouble calling them " weeds " . Some of them even share those nutrients with

other plants they are growing with. Just because modern agriculture doesn't

like them, doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose. I still pull them out

of my garden, but they go right into the compost heap.

-Lana

Lana,

>

> Maybe that would be lack of " weedy " taste if you don't get it with

> milk from cows on mono culture grass fields. I guess we should avoid

> milk from cows on homogenized fields as much as homogenized milk ?

> Just as long as the weedy fields don't have White Snakeroot

>

> It would be nice to know which weeds might be beneficial in the fields.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Right you are. Most of my " medicinal " herbs are commonly known as weeds or

garden pests. I allow them to grow in my yard, and have even deliberately

planted some of them, then try not to tend to them too much as that weakens

them. Plants have to suffer in order to be strong. Any medicine I need or

might need in the future can be found among those weeds. LOL My neighbors

think Im a bit nuts.

Zoe

> ,

> I would think all weeds would be beneficial to some degree, provided they

> have no known negative effects (like white snakeroot). Weeds are some of

> the most hardy plants out there: they can pull enough minerals to survive

> even when growing in the poorest of soils. I think this is why I have

> trouble calling them " weeds " . Some of them even share those nutrients with

> other plants they are growing with. Just because modern agriculture doesn't

> like them, doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose. I still pull them out

> of my garden, but they go right into the compost heap.

> -Lana

> Lana,

>> Maybe that would be lack of " weedy " taste if you don't get it with

>> milk from cows on mono culture grass fields. I guess we should avoid

>> milk from cows on homogenized fields as much as homogenized milk ?

>> Just as long as the weedy fields don't have White Snakeroot

>> It would be nice to know which weeds might be beneficial in the fields.

>>

>

[Guest guest]

--- Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

> I would think all weeds would be beneficial to some degree, provided

> they have no known negative effects (like white snakeroot). Weeds

> are some of the most hardy plants out there: they can pull enough

> minerals to survive even when growing in the poorest of soils. I

> think this is why I have trouble calling them " weeds " . Some of them

> even share those nutrients with other plants they are growing with.

> Just because modern agriculture doesn't like them, doesn't mean they

> don't serve a purpose. I still pull them out of my garden, but they

> go right into the compost heap.

Lana,

I would guess that since cattle are from the " old " world, that over

time they developed aversions to harmful plants based on taste or

smell. Since cattle have been in the " new " world for only a few

hundred years, this may not be long enough for them to have developed

aversions to harmful " new " world plants that are not found in the

" old " world. Snake root might be an example, although I don't know if

it is found in the " old " world.

Also, to me, bitterness in taste is repulsive and associated with

harmful chemicals in food - for example, bitter almonds, which can be

quite poisonous in even small quantities. So, I am not so sure that a

bitter taste is desirable in milk.

[Guest guest]

When I use the word bitter, I use it in the TCM sense of the taste. I don't

mean it in terms of bitter almonds, which are far, far more bitter than I

would ever want my milk to be.

TCM bitter foods include: alfalfa (the higher grade hay), rye, celery,

turnip, asparagus and lettuce. Vinegar, wine, coffee and tea are also

considered bitter.

-Lana

Also, to me, bitterness in taste is repulsive and associated with

> harmful chemicals in food - for example, bitter almonds, which can be

> quite poisonous in even small quantities. So, I am not so sure that a

> bitter taste is desirable in milk.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Deanna,

Do you get their meat as well? I have been told by someone else about

Burgundy Beef but since I found more local farmers I did not try them but I

only get ground beef and stuff like that so it would be nice to know if

their meat is good.

Thanks

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of yoginidd

Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:49 PM

Subject: Re: Milk: Raw vs. Grass Fed?

Here in Texas, I get 100% grassfed beef from:

http://www.burgundy <http://www.burgundypasturebeef.com> pasturebeef.com

There are milk farms too. They feed alfalfa in winter if the pasture

dries up. From the few cattle ranchers I have spoken to, feeding any

grain ever will so skew the fatty acid profiles (and possibly other

factors) that you might as well not bother with it.

I think the best food comes from smaller farms where demand and land

issues are sustainable, thus no corners are cut to make fatter

animals. Because if this one farm in question says 100% grassfed and

that's not really the case, then what else might be compromised? It's

nice to know and trust your farmers, and it feels better to support

such operations imho.

Oh, and that is another thing my beef producer tells me: grassfed

animals can run the gamut of lean and tough to extra fatty. There are

so many factors involved in raising animals for milk or meat, and feed

is just one of them. I think it takes years of experience and a good

climate to get it right.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

--- Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

> TCM bitter foods include: alfalfa (the higher grade hay), rye,

> celery, turnip, asparagus and lettuce. Vinegar, wine, coffee and

> tea are also considered bitter.

Lana,

OK, I see what you mean. Although my recollection of the smell of

alfalfa, when I worked with bales on my Grandfather's farm, was a very

sweet smell. I never tasted it though

Some coffees are pretty bitter and unsweetened cocoa/chocolate is

pretty bitter, but hopefully they aren't too bad for us. So, I guess

bitter isn't always bad.

Reminds me of a tongue twister

Betty bought a bit of butter.

But she said the butter is bitter.

If I use it in my batter,

It will make the batter bitter.

So she bought some better butter.

And she put it in the batter.

And the batter was much better.

Better not use bitter butter

If you want some better batter

Bitter butter makes it bitter.

[Guest guest]

> Besides any issue with supplementation, " pasture fed " just means fed

> on pasture, which can mean just about anything growing out in a

> field. Animals turned out into a cornfield after the harvest, for

> example, are being pasture-fed.

>

,

I was thinking cows fed grain--or anything else--while undergoing a

mobile-milking-unit session might (via some semantics loophole) also

be considered pasture-fed. I think it's extremely significant they

don't say " grass-fed " .

Oh, the fine line between speculation and vigilance.

tb

[Guest guest]

Allyn,

> Do you get their meat as well? I have been told by someone else about

> Burgundy Beef but since I found more local farmers I did not try

them but I

> only get ground beef and stuff like that so it would be nice to know if

> their meat is good.

I get everything they sell regularly and it is all consistently

excellent. Their beef is dry aged 21 days and you can taste the land

and care that goes into their products in every succulent bite. They

are located in an area of prairie that gets the quick growing tall

grasses from the east and the shorter slow growing ones found in the

west (or something like that), and are just blessed with some of the

best grazing land anywhere. Call them up and ask about their products

and methods, and you'll get an entire education on their way of ranching.

But I should shut up right now, because the last time I opened my

mouth, it was for an article on their farm in our local paper. And

they have been in short supply of my rib eye steaks and other choice

cuts ever since!

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much, I wanted to get more specific answers too but

felt stopped. I also asked if they added the much needed iodine to

their soil as we need large amounts of it for our thyroids, breasts and

every cell in our body. No answer.

On Jun 26, 2007, at 7:31 AM, Lana Gibbons wrote:

> In my email I asked for a list of feed additives and specific

> percentages of

> each feed type. I have not yet gotten a response. I will resend and

> hopefully I will get an answer soon.

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

In the Milk Cure book written long ago, it said that Holsteins were

superior for digestability(sp?) because of the smallness of the fat

globules. Jersey's were next.

I have to assume the Holstein became the gross overproducers of milk

since that time and thus the desirability of the Jersey over the

Holstsein.

I will find the book for the correct title and page number. I bought it

at Organic Pastures and would love to ask Mark if he is considering

back breeding to get the original superior cow.

Sally Fallon said in her tape that the Holstein was a fine cow if left

to revert for 3 or 4 generations.

On Jun 26, 2007, at 9:00 AM, Lana Gibbons wrote:

> But I feel lucky to be able to get mostly Jersey since that is

> definately one of the best milk breeds available.

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

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portfolio:

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[Guest guest]

I wonder where he gets his kelp since it contains arsenic. There are

places which test for arsenic levels in their sea veggies. I was taking

a lot of kelp until I found this out but when I get the funds, intend

to buy from a good source.

On Jun 26, 2007, at 9:26 AM, ALLYN FERRIS wrote:

> Dennis gives his cows kelp

Parashis

artpages@...

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portfolio:

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[Guest guest]

Kelp has arsenic unless you buy from a source that tests. I would ask

On Jun 26, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Lana Gibbons wrote:

> Wow, I always thought TN would be one of the best places to do 100%

> grass

> since the hills are sooo green! Do you know of any state where the

> farmers

> don't have issues keeping their cattle up to weight?

> Interesting about the kelp - does it give the milk a fishy taste when

> he

> uses too much?

> -Lana

>

> On 6/26/07, ALLYN FERRIS <aferris7272@...> wrote:

>>

>> I know several farmers here in Florida and one in Tennessee have

>> mentioned

>> it is hard to keep the cows weight up but the ones I buy from do seem

>> to

>> do

>> ok with it.

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Wow, I always thought TN would be one of the best places to do

100% grass

> since the hills are sooo green!

>

I, too, thought it would be great in TN for grass-fed beef and lamb

when I moved here 2 years ago. I've been improving my pastures but

this year we've had such a drought that not only am I lacking in

grass but I can't even buy enough hay to get through the winter.

That was my point before about finding some sort of supplementation

considering that grass-finished beef will be tough if the cow ever

loses weight. But I still do not feed grains--at least not with any

starch in it which is what changes the fat structure in the meat.

Anyone who buys meat from me knows that I am feeding beet pulp (left

over from processing sugar beets and acts like long-stem fiber in

the gut) and corn gluton (by-product of making high-fructose corn

syrup and has no starch left in the feed). I actually learned about

corn gluton at a grazing conference and learned there that although

feeding it means you're not completely grass-fed, it does not change

the fat composition and structure. Sometimes we have to make some

compromises and I think overall I've found a reasonble alternative.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Interesting about the kelp - does it give the milk a fishy taste

when he

> uses too much?

> -Lana

>

No--kelp does not give milk a fishy taste! I have fed it to all my

livestock for years.

[Guest guest]

What weeds are they and what do you use each for?

On Jun 26, 2007, at 10:25 PM, Zoe W wrote:

> Right you are. Most of my " medicinal " herbs are commonly known as

> weeds or garden pests. I allow them to grow in my yard, and

> have even deliberately planted some of them, then try not to tend to

> them too much as that weakens them. Plants have to suffer in order to

> be strong. Any medicine I need or might need in the future can be

> found among those weeds. LOL My neighbors think Im a bit nuts.

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

Dandelion= all parts of the plant are either medicinal or edible Roots good

for kidney/liver cleansing.

Stinging Nettle = dried herb contains tons of vitamins and minerals necessary

to sustain life

Plaintain ( Plantago Major= not to be confused with the banana type fruit)

soothing to the skin, will alleviate the pain and itching from all manner of

bug bites, bee stings, stinging nettle burns, etc. The Indians even used it

for snakebite- not so sure I would trust it that far, but then you never know.

Tinctured in Olive Oil, good for itching ears, etc.

chamomile= calming tea, tames colic in infants

catnip= calming tea, allows a restful sleep- excitatory for cats, but has

opposite effect on humans. Very good when you have cold or flu.

Yellow Dock= another kidney/liver herb. Used in a similar manner to

Plantain- also good for bites and stings.

Grindelia= aerial parts esp. flowers used in asthma, bronchitis or other

respiratory illnesses.

Horehound = Upper respiratory stuff, plus its a bitter so good for

kidney/liver cleanse

Feverfew = migraines- another bitter so same as above.

Goldenrod = tinctured- good for allergy relief.

Peppermint = calming to the stomach, plus it just plain tastes good in a tea.

Then there is another one Ive forgotten the name of, grows low to the ground,

leaves turn slightly reddish. Good to stop bleeding

Turkey Mullein - Tincture is a good antiseptic for wounds, etc. Not to be

taken internally.

My antibiotics are

Garlic

Horseradish

Echinacea- actually just boosts the immune system

Onion

Turmeric- must be purchased

Ginger

Chapparal- have to go gather this one

Oregon grape root - must be planted, but grows well here.

Depending on where you live, your weeds may be somewhat different than mine,

but Im sure you will find equivalents.

I do not recommend buying herbs, since they will already be old

and you cannot guarantee the quality. They lose their potency quickly after

picking. Should be used or tinctured within 24 hours or less if possible.

In an emergency when you have not the time to wait for them to grow purchasing

them is next best, but do not expect them to perform as well as those you gather

yourself.

Zoe

> What weeds are they and what do you use each for?

> On Jun 26, 2007, at 10:25 PM, Zoe W wrote:

>> Right you are. Most of my " medicinal " herbs are commonly known as

>> weeds or garden pests. I allow them to grow in my yard, and

>> have even deliberately planted some of them, then try not to tend to

>> them too much as that weakens them. Plants have to suffer in order to

>> be strong. Any medicine I need or might need in the future can be

>> found among those weeds. My neighbors think Im a bit nuts.

> Parashis

> artpages@...

> zine:

> artpagesonline.com

> portfolio:

> http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

>

>

[Guest guest]

Then there is another one Ive forgotten the name of, grows low to the

ground,

leaves turn slightly reddish. Good to stop bleeding

Yarrow doesn't grow low to the ground and it is white but it will stop

bleeding. It is also good to tincture and use as bug spray.

Belinda in TN

[Guest guest]

Very good, I've never used that one but heard many good things about it.

by bug spray do you mean for plants or humans?

Zoe

>

> Then there is another one Ive forgotten the name of, grows low to the

> ground,

> leaves turn slightly reddish. Good to stop bleeding

> Yarrow doesn't grow low to the ground and it is white but it will stop

> bleeding. It is also good to tincture and use as bug spray.

> Belinda in TN

>

>