Re: Is my past too weird or illogical?

[Guest guest]

My SO and I crossed this bridge a few months ago. He began to notice

things about me when she would come to town... he was there when I

flashbacked to sexual abuse as a child... we've known eachother for

years so there is some comfort in that...

So... he was trying hard to compare his experiences with HIS father

to my mother... saying many " helpful-but-not " comments along the

way. Finally I worked up the courage and said this: " Honey, I

realize you are trying to be helpful. I know you love me. I know

that sharing your childhood trauma's is an attempt to relate. I

thank you for your intentions. However, my mother is mentally ill.

My mother chooses to do things that don't even fall into the category

of " not nice " ... she does things that are - TO THE CORE - created and

spawned by mental illness. There is no way to deal with it politely,

cut her slack, or allow her to get away with it. Your helpful

suggestions only hurt me because I become powerless in them. "

He has never tried to " fix " it again. Instead he is my #1 Champion

and Protector. He has circled the wagon's to my heart. I love him

more now than ever before.

Lynnette

>

> How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

>

> My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries to

see

> every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't

regulate

> her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at

face

> value.

>

> Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a couple of

> stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

>

> His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically to

try

> and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron over

and

> over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and she

hit

> me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me over

and

> over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have

thought

> I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not

burn

> me on purpose.

>

> And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through the

> desert and she told me to set the table without checking into it or

> calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she must

not

> have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a

logical

> reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know why

she

> didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on purpose,

but

> those are the FACTS. "

>

> After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it was

> possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had taken

in

> the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things out. "

He

> did say he was sorry.

>

> Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner.

I'm

> thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or was

it

> so bad I needed therapy? "

>

> I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this. I

> know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I learned to

> change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a friend of

> mine was.

>

> I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I have

> been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist. However, I

> still think he should hear/understand at least some of this part of

my

> life.

>

> I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead,

because

> at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Deanna,

You know, I get that reaction a lot from people at first. It's hard to

believe that a mother would do those things to her daughter. I think it's

almost a form of self protection for people to deny it at first. My example

is not with an SO but with my work. I work in a tiny office, 30 people

total. My department is tiny, and we sit about 2 feet apart for 8 hours a

day. I'm quite close to and good friends with my boss. Over the 2 years I

have been there, I've been asked about my family pretty often. I typically

say, " my mom isn't a healthy person so I don't spend holidays with her. " or

something else that is both politically correct and honest (can you tell I

work in public relations). Anyway, at first people would defend my mother to

me in response. Saying things like, " that's all the more reason she needs

you. " Some how though, it has magically sunk in that a) I am a fabulous

person, I'm generous and outgoing and they have come to love me and count on

me there and I was abused as a child. Just small things have sunk in,

like one day we were joking around about things we can't stand that are

strange, my boss hates cantelope seeds because they remind her of insect

eggs (ha ha ha, she is such a girl). I bust out with I am terrified of

shopping carts because my brother used to bash the carts against my legs and

rip the skin off from mid-calf to heel. My boss' response, " He was so

abusive to you! That is horrible. " A strong statement for such a nice

mid-aged mom like her.

I think it is too early for you to make a decision about whether or not he

will ever get it. Just let it unfold and see, while you protect your heart.

girlscout's 2 cents

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 1:56 PM, yp_lynnette_cameron_park <

h_l_maston@...> wrote:

> My SO and I crossed this bridge a few months ago. He began to notice

> things about me when she would come to town... he was there when I

> flashbacked to sexual abuse as a child... we've known eachother for

> years so there is some comfort in that...

>

> So... he was trying hard to compare his experiences with HIS father

> to my mother... saying many " helpful-but-not " comments along the

> way. Finally I worked up the courage and said this: " Honey, I

> realize you are trying to be helpful. I know you love me. I know

> that sharing your childhood trauma's is an attempt to relate. I

> thank you for your intentions. However, my mother is mentally ill.

> My mother chooses to do things that don't even fall into the category

> of " not nice " ... she does things that are - TO THE CORE - created and

> spawned by mental illness. There is no way to deal with it politely,

> cut her slack, or allow her to get away with it. Your helpful

> suggestions only hurt me because I become powerless in them. "

>

> He has never tried to " fix " it again. Instead he is my #1 Champion

> and Protector. He has circled the wagon's to my heart. I love him

> more now than ever before.

>

> Lynnette

>

>

>

> >

> > How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

> >

> > My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries to

> see

> > every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't

> regulate

> > her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at

> face

> > value.

> >

> > Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a couple of

> > stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

> >

> > His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically to

> try

> > and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron over

> and

> > over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and she

> hit

> > me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me over

> and

> > over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have

> thought

> > I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not

> burn

> > me on purpose.

> >

> > And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through the

> > desert and she told me to set the table without checking into it or

> > calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she must

> not

> > have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> > calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a

> logical

> > reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know why

> she

> > didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on purpose,

> but

> > those are the FACTS. "

> >

> > After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it was

> > possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> > clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had taken

> in

> > the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things out. "

> He

> > did say he was sorry.

> >

> > Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner.

> I'm

> > thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or was

> it

> > so bad I needed therapy? "

> >

> > I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> > probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this. I

> > know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I learned to

> > change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a friend of

> > mine was.

> >

> > I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I have

> > been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist. However, I

> > still think he should hear/understand at least some of this part of

> my

> > life.

> >

> > I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead,

> because

> > at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I hear you!

The first time people meet Nada they think I'm the beast (if I've

bothered to say anything about her which I usually don't). By the

second encounter, they're very appologetic to me for ever harboring

questioning thoughts about me.

Sigh.

I need a new T-Shirt, ~ " It's not ME ~ Just YOU wait "

Lynnette

> >

> > >

> > > How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

> > >

> > > My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries

to

> > see

> > > every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't

> > regulate

> > > her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at

> > face

> > > value.

> > >

> > > Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a

couple of

> > > stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

> > >

> > > His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically

to

> > try

> > > and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron

over

> > and

> > > over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and she

> > hit

> > > me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me

over

> > and

> > > over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have

> > thought

> > > I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not

> > burn

> > > me on purpose.

> > >

> > > And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through

the

> > > desert and she told me to set the table without checking into

it or

> > > calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she

must

> > not

> > > have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> > > calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a

> > logical

> > > reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know why

> > she

> > > didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on

purpose,

> > but

> > > those are the FACTS. "

> > >

> > > After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it

was

> > > possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> > > clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had

taken

> > in

> > > the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things

out. "

> > He

> > > did say he was sorry.

> > >

> > > Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner.

> > I'm

> > > thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or

was

> > it

> > > so bad I needed therapy? "

> > >

> > > I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> > > probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this.

I

> > > know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I

learned to

> > > change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a

friend of

> > > mine was.

> > >

> > > I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I

have

> > > been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist.

However, I

> > > still think he should hear/understand at least some of this

part of

> > my

> > > life.

> > >

> > > I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead,

> > because

> > > at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am taking a course on interpersonal violence right now, which

includes physical as well as emotional abuse. One thing that they

say is SO helpful for someone with a history like ours is having a

supportive partner. I am so happy that you have one. I have

sabotaged every good relationship I ever had...but I'm working on

that. I'm glad you have someone so validating and loving.

> > > >

> > > It was clear that he felt very poorly about the direction

things

> had

> > > taken in the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason

> things

> > > out. " He did say he was sorry.

> > >

> > >

> > > I may be wrong in saying this but my first reaction to this

was :

> Well,

> > > since you know me better than my mother, wouldn't 'reason' show

> that I

> > > was trusting you with details from my past that I don't share

> with just

> > > anyone?

> > >

> > > Just a thought,...sorry, his take on all of it bugged me a

bit.

> > > Forgive me,...

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

For me and my boyfriend things needed a bit time to sink in. He is

also an engineer and basically wants to see also the good and human

side in everyone. He is not familiar with the dynamics of mental

illness or abuse. He therefore also sometimes made comments when I

was telling something hurtful that left me feeling not completely

validated, and yes, it sucks. But we've been together 1,5 years now

and he started noticing things in my mother's behavior, or in the way

she is treated within the family like the absolute authority. He

feels more protective of me and our relationship now. And he has

helped me to see behind the mask of the 'weak' mother and instead see

someone who is, when she's not vicious, mean, hurtful, authoritarian

and aggressive (the side she does not show to people outside the

family) simply very childish and immature. I think BF and I deal with

her more like with a spoiled child, and it helps to reduce the

irrational fear seated deep inside me. So, Deanna--maybe just give it

some more time. Once I had told him about my mother trying to throw

me off the stairs in a fit of rage, and he had not reacted--to my

feeling--with the validation I'd hoped for. But it had sunk in, bc a

couple of days or weeks later, when I was making an analogy between

his father and my mother (as authoritarian figures in our education)

he said-- " yes but my father never tried to throw me off the stairs " .

Which clearly marked that he knows that our situations are not the

same. I have also made the experience that it might sometimes be

better to keep the reminiscing about our childhoods for this board,

the therapist or a trusted friend--not for my BF. If I feel down, sad

or angry because of all that happened, I tell him that, but I don't

go too much into what exactly happened. And yes, indeed, I think it

is very important what you write: that BF is not your therapist. That

can really spoil your relationship. I try now to keep my mother and

my past out of our home, litterally and emotionally. I try to limit

my thinking about it to the time when I am not at home and not at

work, f.ex. on the bus on the way home. Sometimes I feel the need to

get off the bus and walk it off me.

This is just my experience, maybe there is something helpful in it.

In any case i wish you good luck and good courage, and I must say

that I felt very angry at your mother who burned you repeatedly and

deliberately with the iron.

Katrina

>

> How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

>

> My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries to

see

> every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't

regulate

> her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at

face

> value.

>

> Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a couple of

> stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

>

> His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically to

try

> and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron over

and

> over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and she

hit

> me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me over

and

> over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have

thought

> I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not

burn

> me on purpose.

>

> And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through the

> desert and she told me to set the table without checking into it or

> calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she must

not

> have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a

logical

> reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know why

she

> didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on purpose,

but

> those are the FACTS. "

>

> After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it was

> possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had taken

in

> the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things out. "

He

> did say he was sorry.

>

> Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner.

I'm

> thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or was

it

> so bad I needed therapy? "

>

> I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this. I

> know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I learned to

> change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a friend of

> mine was.

>

> I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I have

> been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist. However, I

> still think he should hear/understand at least some of this part of

my

> life.

>

> I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead,

because

> at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

>

[Guest guest]

weirdness. my husband is an engineer, too. that wasn't his problem

in accepting that my mom was crazy, though. he has a great mom and

couldn't imagine her treating him like mine treated me. in his mind,

this behavior did not fall under the category of " mom-ish behavior, "

which makes sense, because it doesn't.

while it is painful to feel like i wasn't being validated by my

husband (back in the day when we were just going out), it was also an

important lesson for me. he showed me how completely bizarre my

mom's behavior was by refusing to accept that it was mom-like.

bink

> >

> > How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

> >

> > My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries to

> see

> > every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't

> regulate

> > her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at

> face

> > value.

> >

> > Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a couple

of

> > stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

> >

> > His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically

to

> try

> > and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron

over

> and

> > over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and

she

> hit

> > me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me

over

> and

> > over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have

> thought

> > I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not

> burn

> > me on purpose.

> >

> > And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through the

> > desert and she told me to set the table without checking into it

or

> > calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she must

> not

> > have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> > calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a

> logical

> > reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know why

> she

> > didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on

purpose,

> but

> > those are the FACTS. "

> >

> > After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it

was

> > possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> > clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had

taken

> in

> > the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things

out. "

> He

> > did say he was sorry.

> >

> > Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner.

> I'm

> > thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or

was

> it

> > so bad I needed therapy? "

> >

> > I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> > probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this. I

> > know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I learned

to

> > change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a friend

of

> > mine was.

> >

> > I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I

have

> > been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist. However,

I

> > still think he should hear/understand at least some of this part

of

> my

> > life.

> >

> > I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead,

> because

> > at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ok this is weird, my boyfriend is also an engineer. The first time

he met nada he said " could your mom be ANY sweeter? " .

Ummm Yuck- you guys get that right? When I responded that she

wasn't always that way, and was in fact quite the opposite whilst I

grew up. He responded " Forgive and forget, right? " I almost burst

into tears at this point and said " yeah, well I wasn't the one who

abused those I was supposed to take care of. " Things were quiet

after that. The next day I explained to him that when I was little I

used to wish that I would die, or maybe nada would die and then

someone would come and take us away. That's how bad it was. I

described the unbridled fits of nada rage on an hourly basis,

witholding love, etc. I got an open mouthed shocked stare. Then he

told me I didn't have to be so " tough " all the time. Maybe someday

he'll get it.

Even my close friends think I am lying or exaggerating what happened

with my nada. One friend even suggested that I am going to turn into

her when I have children. That was the worst invalidation I have

heard yet. I now realize that particular friend is very spiteful,

antagonistic, stubborn and will say ANYTHING to prove his point. (I

am considering limiting my contact with this person as he is also an

alcoholic, toxic, and I think oblivious to any of it). If I treated

my future children like nada did us, I would do them a favour and

gleefully shoot myself in the head- thank you very much.

The ugly abuses that happened behind closed doors are unthinkable

and therefore to most people impossible, especially not to " you "

their good friend or SO who is so nice and " normal " . You must be

lying, right? I have realized I must choose carefully with who I

discuss my inner world of hurt and nada-ness. Most " normal " people

CANNOT understand what we went through. Even on a remote level so I

don't expect them to. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

> > >

> > > How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

> > >

> > > My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries

to

> > see

> > > every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't

> > regulate

> > > her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that

at

> > face

> > > value.

> > >

> > > Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a

couple

> of

> > > stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

> > >

> > > His response was what I feared it would be, which was

basically

> to

> > try

> > > and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron

> over

> > and

> > > over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and

> she

> > hit

> > > me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me

> over

> > and

> > > over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have

> > thought

> > > I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would

not

> > burn

> > > me on purpose.

> > >

> > > And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through

the

> > > desert and she told me to set the table without checking into

it

> or

> > > calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she

must

> > not

> > > have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he

was

> > > calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a

> > logical

> > > reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know

why

> > she

> > > didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on

> purpose,

> > but

> > > those are the FACTS. "

> > >

> > > After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that

it

> was

> > > possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It

was

> > > clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had

> taken

> > in

> > > the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things

> out. "

> > He

> > > did say he was sorry.

> > >

> > > Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy

sooner.

> > I'm

> > > thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad,

or

> was

> > it

> > > so bad I needed therapy? "

> > >

> > > I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe

listener " ,

> > > probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like

this. I

> > > know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I

learned

> to

> > > change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a

friend

> of

> > > mine was.

> > >

> > > I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but

I

> have

> > > been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist.

However,

> I

> > > still think he should hear/understand at least some of this

part

> of

> > my

> > > life.

> > >

> > > I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead,

> > because

> > > at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jess,

I've made my fair share of wrong choices, believe me. This is my

first really truly healthy relationship. It's amazed me from day

one,...he's a wonderful guy and I never want to be without him.

Mercy

> > > > >

> > > > It was clear that he felt very poorly about the direction

> things

> > had

> > > > taken in the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I

reason

> > things

> > > > out. " He did say he was sorry.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I may be wrong in saying this but my first reaction to this

> was :

> > Well,

> > > > since you know me better than my mother, wouldn't 'reason'

show

> > that I

> > > > was trusting you with details from my past that I don't share

> > with just

> > > > anyone?

> > > >

> > > > Just a thought,...sorry, his take on all of it bugged me a

> bit.

> > > > Forgive me,...

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Vegdeanna,

It may be hard for the average person to accept things like this at

first. If I were you, I'd take it slow in bringing things up like her

burning you with an iron.

With my husband, I just kind of explained that my mom was " difficult "

and, frankly, he was able to figure out how crazy she was all by

himself once he met her and spent time around her. I don't usually go

into detail about past problems or abuse unless I'm explaining my

seeming over-reaction to something or unless it's relevant to the

present. Otherwise, I just let it slide. He doesn't need to know all

the gory details. Seriously, the cliffs notes will suffice.

A couple of people also mentioned what to do about this stuff around

work. I've found that 1.either people don't get it at all or 2.they

get it without any real explanation because it happened to them. I

tend to tell people about my immediate, personal life (what I'm doing

this weekend, what I watched on TV last night, my latest travels etc.)

I consider my family stories to be inappropriate to most professional

situations and am not afraid to say so.

Good luck. If your boyfriend is worth it, he'll make the effort to

figure things out.

Trish

>

> How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

>

> My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries to see

> every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't regulate

> her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at face

> value.

>

> Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a couple of

> stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

>

> His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically to try

> and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron over and

> over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and she hit

> me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me over and

> over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have thought

> I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not burn

> me on purpose.

>

> And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through the

> desert and she told me to set the table without checking into it or

> calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she must not

> have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a logical

> reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know why she

> didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on purpose, but

> those are the FACTS. "

>

> After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it was

> possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had taken in

> the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things out. " He

> did say he was sorry.

>

> Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner. I'm

> thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or was it

> so bad I needed therapy? "

>

> I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this. I

> know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I learned to

> change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a friend of

> mine was.

>

> I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I have

> been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist. However, I

> still think he should hear/understand at least some of this part of my

> life.

>

> I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead, because

> at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

>

[Guest guest]

We've been going out for 8 months, and it was only recently that I

said anything about my childhood. The funny thing for me, though, is

recognizing which stories might be " the bad stories " , like with the

curling iron.

It's like I have no idea how any story of my past might sound to

someone; I have no sense of if it's kinda bad or super bad.

> >

> > How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

> >

> > My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries to see

> > every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't regulate

> > her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at face

> > value.

> >

> > Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a couple of

> > stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

> >

> > His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically to try

> > and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron over and

> > over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and she hit

> > me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me over and

> > over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have thought

> > I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not burn

> > me on purpose.

> >

> > And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through the

> > desert and she told me to set the table without checking into it or

> > calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she must not

> > have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> > calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a logical

> > reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know why she

> > didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on purpose, but

> > those are the FACTS. "

> >

> > After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it was

> > possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> > clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had taken in

> > the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things out. " He

> > did say he was sorry.

> >

> > Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner. I'm

> > thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or was it

> > so bad I needed therapy? "

> >

> > I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> > probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this. I

> > know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I learned to

> > change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a friend of

> > mine was.

> >

> > I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I have

> > been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist. However, I

> > still think he should hear/understand at least some of this part of my

> > life.

> >

> > I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead, because

> > at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah! I know what you mean. It took me years to appropriately screen

things for other people--I still slip up sometimes. You could always

let your SO know that you struggle with that and that you sometimes

might say things that sound far fetched without realizing it because

that was your reality growing up.

I have a couple of friends who are in a long-term relationship and one

of them is constantly telling the other " wait, that's not normal! "

about childhood stories. Sometimes you just need a sounding board and

exposure to normal folks.

--T

> > >

> > > How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

> > >

> > > My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries

to see

> > > every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't

regulate

> > > her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at

face

> > > value.

> > >

> > > Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a couple of

> > > stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

> > >

> > > His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically

to try

> > > and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron

over and

> > > over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and

she hit

> > > me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me

over and

> > > over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have

thought

> > > I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not

burn

> > > me on purpose.

> > >

> > > And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through the

> > > desert and she told me to set the table without checking into it or

> > > calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she

must not

> > > have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> > > calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a

logical

> > > reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know

why she

> > > didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on

purpose, but

> > > those are the FACTS. "

> > >

> > > After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it was

> > > possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> > > clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had

taken in

> > > the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things

out. " He

> > > did say he was sorry.

> > >

> > > Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner.

I'm

> > > thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or

was it

> > > so bad I needed therapy? "

> > >

> > > I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> > > probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this. I

> > > know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I learned to

> > > change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a friend of

> > > mine was.

> > >

> > > I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I have

> > > been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist. However, I

> > > still think he should hear/understand at least some of this part

of my

> > > life.

> > >

> > > I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead,

because

> > > at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

hopefully this posts because I've posted a couple times and I think

they have been like screened out or something (or I don't know how to

work the groups).

My girlfriend of 3 years has a nada and is a member of this group.

It's funny (in that not-at-all-funny sort of way) because I was

reading your post out loud to her and she was sort of saying how your

mom was so much more clearly abusive and we were both surprised that

you didn't find the idea of her burning you with an iron on purpose

really " black and white " - but then suddenly I realized that you are

talking about like a curling iron (rather than a clothes iron) and my

girlfriend says, " Oh, ok, that's exactly what my mom would do. She'd

curl it up till it would be against my head and if I complained she'd

wack me on the head and say, 'shut up,' " -

ANYWAY

I actually am responding to your post because I was the boyfriend

you described circa 3 years ago. I had come from a non-abusive

childhood and even though I had previous friendships with people who

had abusive parents I could not comprehend the illogical thinking of

my girlfriends mom. I read a lot about psychology and about abuse

etc, but still I could not have prepared myself for the type of

insanity my girlfriend described.

I'll try to summarize some of my thoughts as they developed:

I assumed there was some sort of major communication issue between

my girlfriend and her parents. for example: They didn't really believe

that it was unacceptable for her to date at 18 did they?

I assumed my girlfriend was sort of describing caricatures of her

conversations. I couldn't comprehend any mom actually saying things

that 5 year olds say, i.e. " you ruined my life, "

3. When I first spoke to her dad, after he used his under cover cop

skills to track down my phone and threatened to sic the swat team on

my apartment because she was over hanging out with me without their

knowledge (at adult ages I had no idea we were hanging out " behind

their backs " or whatever, and like my girlfriend is going to tell me

she's not allowed to hang out with boys at 18), It was so extreme and

intensely insane that I simply assumed that there was just so much

more to this than overly intrusive overprotective parents (in fact

there was so much more, and I'd now call it an effort to keep their

daughter from ever exposing their abuses to an audience, but that's

not a conclusion I jumped to). The 'so much more' i assumed was more

along the lines of a rational explanation, like maybe a history of

sneaking out or doing bad things or something. Or i figured that since

her dad was an under cover narcotics cop and watches way too much fox

news he just had a fear of letting his daughter be out at night with

guys he doesn't know.

4. I started noticing something was wrong when her parents made me

the good guy and her the bad guy and started focusing their efforts on

befriending me and speaking badly about their daughter to me (mostly

about how she's a liar and makes up stories). This didn't seem like

normal parent behavior, and I wondered if they were just trying to

cover their tracks. It was especially strange because it happened like

one day after her dad threatened to sic the swat team on me. I was

getting text messages and invites to spend the weekend at their home.

And I did.

5. about this time i wrote out this letter (i wrote a lot in a

journal) addressed to my girlfriends dad and nada about how we all

need to forgive ourselves for things we've done that were wrong,

things we've done to hurt each other, etc. Honestly, i read it

recently in my journal and its just humorous now, because I was

writing it as like this letter I might give to my girlfriends parents

in an attempt to let them know that i know that bad things happened

but that's ok, we're not perfect, and we aught to work on forgiving

ourselves and each other. Its such a joke, but I have to judge my

intentions based on my current understanding. I saw abusive parents as

rational people who get out of control, lose their temper, project

their negative self image onto their kids, etc etc etc, and rational

people have a hard time forgiving themselves for their normal human

mistakes, but that's nothing a little pop psychology can't fix!

I showed the letter to my dear girlfriend and she was so kind, I

can't believe how nice she was, because anything other than laughing

in my face is utterly kind given the extent to which i clearly did not

understand her parents. All i remember is her saying that it wouldn't

work for her parents.

I feel I am giving you nothing of value here but I guess I do want

to make one last important point. I'll assume your relationship is

like ours- I found her to be a really cool person. I liked her a

whole lot. I fell in love really quick and felt like I finally

understood what love felt like. She was so smart, so caring and

thoughtful, so introspective and so well thought out with regard to

her own thought processes -she was really great. I couldn't imagine

that greatness like her could come from the black pit that I now know

she came from. I understand (since I know she'll be reading this and

doesn't like to be characterized as a " success story " ) that she has a

lot of issues and feels like she is failing at life. But I've never

met such a dynamic character in fiction or reality. I know she thinks

she's worthless most of the time, but I'm talking about what I thought

and think and felt and feel. It was impossible for me to understand,

at the time, that such goodness could come from the childhood she

described.

But it did. And I don't know when I started to know that, but it isn't

hard at all to understand now. At some point it all changed. it

probably helped when I bought and read SWOE. At the time some

psychologist told me that my girlfriend was probably BPD because of

some of her self injury behaviors*. I read the book and it became

immediately clear that my girlfriend lacked any resemblance to BPD,

and that my girlfriend was in fact a daughter of someone with BPD. And

that's her mom. We still havent figured out what the $^(K is wrong

with her dad.

*just one last thing. my pet peeve is when psychologists say that self

injury is indicative of BPD. I tend to think that the most important

factor is that lack of a core sense of self and black and white thinking.

-Dance

>

> How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

>

> My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries to see

> every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't regulate

> her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at face

> value.

>

> Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a couple of

> stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

>

> His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically to try

> and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron over and

> over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and she hit

> me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me over and

> over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have thought

> I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not burn

> me on purpose.

>

> And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through the

> desert and she told me to set the table without checking into it or

> calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she must not

> have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a logical

> reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know why she

> didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on purpose, but

> those are the FACTS. "

>

> After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it was

> possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had taken in

> the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things out. " He

> did say he was sorry.

>

> Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner. I'm

> thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or was it

> so bad I needed therapy? "

>

> I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this. I

> know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I learned to

> change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a friend of

> mine was.

>

> I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I have

> been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist. However, I

> still think he should hear/understand at least some of this part of my

> life.

>

> I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead, because

> at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

>

[Guest guest]

danceattakjg, thank you so much for taking the time to write this. It

was very kind of you and it was beautifully written. I think it

helped me to turn a corner on this. Our talk took place on Saturday

and I was still thinking a lot about it and still feeling pretty upset.

I do suspect he is thinking that I must have been a really bad, out of

control child for her to immediately assume I was lying when I said a

man had chased me through the desert. (He thinks she thought I was

lying because I think the idea that she really just DIDN'T CARE is

WAAAAAAAAYYYY too hard for him to believe. Maybe some day?)

I think I am prepared to just let this one go with him and to make a

concerted effort to not bring up stuff about the past to him. But if

it does come up again, I will have to have a discussion with him about

being a " safe " listener and keeping his doubts to himself.

I guess I just really wanted him to believe me and understand me, but

surely it would be truly possible for him to ever really understand,

wouldn't it be?

Though my contact with her is extremely limited now, perhaps time will

put this all into better perspective for him, as it has done for my SIL.

-Deanna

> >

> > How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

> >

> > My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries to see

> > every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't regulate

> > her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at face

> > value.

> >

> > Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a couple of

> > stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

> >

> > His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically to try

> > and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron over and

> > over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and she hit

> > me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me over and

> > over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have thought

> > I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not burn

> > me on purpose.

> >

> > And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through the

> > desert and she told me to set the table without checking into it or

> > calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she must not

> > have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> > calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a logical

> > reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know why she

> > didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on purpose, but

> > those are the FACTS. "

> >

> > After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it was

> > possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> > clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had taken in

> > the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things out. " He

> > did say he was sorry.

> >

> > Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner. I'm

> > thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or was it

> > so bad I needed therapy? "

> >

> > I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> > probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this. I

> > know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I learned to

> > change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a friend of

> > mine was.

> >

> > I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I have

> > been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist. However, I

> > still think he should hear/understand at least some of this part of my

> > life.

> >

> > I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead, because

> > at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Deanna - your new man will get it eventually. My hubby didn't

fully understand or always believe me until he saw the craziness

first hand. Trust that your truth is real, as is your pain.

Dance - your post made me cry. My husband tries to tell me much of

what you feel about your girlfriend and I don't believe him either.

I think it is not only low self esteem from so many years of nada

emotional abuse but I actually feel like she implanted a self-

destruct mechanism inside me if I ever let out all that really

happened to me. She implanted me with her self-preservation back-up

system. I am left to try to extract that emotional self deprication

talk in my head - easier said than done.

patinage

> >

> > How do you guys deal with stuff like this?

> >

> > My fairly new boyfriend is the logical-thinking type who tries to

see

> > every side of a story. When I told him that my mother can't

regulate

> > her emotions, and that she's unstable, he seemed to take that at

face

> > value.

> >

> > Well, it's many months later and I've begun to tell him a couple

of

> > stories from recent past and the not so recent past.

> >

> > His response was what I feared it would be, which was basically

to try

> > and explain how SURELY my mother didn't burn me with the iron

over and

> > over again ON PURPOSE. When I told her " Ow! That hurts! " and

she hit

> > me and pulled my hair, told me to shut up and kept burning me

over and

> > over, while I was not allowed to speak, he said she must have

thought

> > I was saying she pulled my hair too tight. Surely she would not

burn

> > me on purpose.

> >

> > And when I ran home and told her a pedophile chased me through the

> > desert and she told me to set the table without checking into it

or

> > calling the police or seeming at all concerned...he said she must

not

> > have believed me and " kids lie, you know. " I asked him if he was

> > calling me a liar and he said no. He kept saying there was a

logical

> > reason and I'm like, " LOOK, she is NOT LOGICAL. I don't know why

she

> > didn't call the police. I don't know why she burned me on

purpose, but

> > those are the FACTS. "

> >

> > After finding ways to excuse a few stories, he admitted that it

was

> > possible that yes, her reactions were simply not logical. It was

> > clear that he felt very poorly about the direction things had

taken in

> > the conversation and said " I'm an engineer. I reason things

out. " He

> > did say he was sorry.

> >

> > Then after all this he asks me why I didn't seek therapy sooner.

I'm

> > thinking, " Which is it? Did she really do nothing that bad, or

was it

> > so bad I needed therapy? "

> >

> > I just don't think he's been taught how to be a " safe listener " ,

> > probably because he hasn't dated someone with issues like this. I

> > know I used to be more like him than I am now, and that I learned

to

> > change after seeing how my therapist works and also how a friend

of

> > mine was.

> >

> > I know I need to sit down and explain to him what I need, but I

have

> > been very careful to not expect him to be my therapist. However,

I

> > still think he should hear/understand at least some of this part

of my

> > life.

> >

> > I often wish I had been beaten and locked in a closet instead,

because

> > at least that is pretty freakin black and white!

> >

>