A Tentative Hello (with response)

[Guest guest]

harv-scarlet@... wrote:

<<I'll try not to take too long to introduce myself. I am 41 years old and have

been on

Nortriptyline 80mg for 5 years now. I started taking it after my daughter turned

one - after

a crazy year of change - having a baby, quitting my full time job of 12 years to

stay home,

and my mom and dad's divorce after 35 years of marriage and top it off - sleep

deprivation due to my daughter's awful sleep paterns. I was a wreck - crying,

anxious,

exhausted, depressed - a huge mess.

I was desperate! I wanted to get back to myself and would do anything to try and

get

there. After trying 6 different antidepressants over the course of almost a

year, I settled in

with Nortriptyline, Ambien to sleep and the occasional Lorazepam. I'm still on

this mix,

though if I take .5mg of Lorazepam in a day, that's a lot - so I don't feel a

dependency on

Lorazepam.

I have tried a couple times to decrease my dosage of Nortriptyline by 10 mg (I

take 8

capsules of 10mg each because I wanted to slowly lower my dosage).

Unfortunately, I

haven't been able to decrease for more than a week before I give up. My

anxiety/agitation

kicks in so badly, that I just can't stand it and I go back to the 80mg. again.

I am an

anxious person, always have been, so it's difficult for me to be rational about

the agitation

I experience when decreasing. I get to a point where I just don't want to deal

with my

feelings and I'll do anything to feel safe, but that keeps me trapped. I also

have doubts

that tell me that I may not even feel better when I quit or it might be such a

long process,

that it will be unlivable. I have a husband, daughter and job that require all

of my energy.

Decreasing my dose takes all of my energy away from what matters most to me. I

obsess

about how I feel because it feels so bad and then I can't concentrate on

anything else. Do

you see my circle?

If anyone else has every dealt with this and been successful, I'd sure like to

know how you

did it.

I feel upset with myself that I haven't quit this yet - when my doctor tells me

that I should.

I'm afraid, mostly.

If you can help, please let me know.

S. >>

** Hi S. (a name is helpful). I'm curious -- why did you title this post

as you did?

You are struggling after a week because the reduction you are making is too

large. When you take Nortriptyline this drug limits the transport, release and

storage of catecholamines. Catecholamines are hormones that are released by the

adrenal glands in situations of stress such as psychological stress or low blood

sugar. You would know them best as dopamine, noradrenaline (norepinephrine),

and adrenaline (epinephrine).

When you reduce a drug like this too rapidly, you get what is basically a

rebound effect. A huge amount of catecholamines are released by the adrenal

glands causing panic and anxiety.

The way to avoid this is to use 5% reductions. Do a reduction and wait until

you feel as well or better than you felt prior to the reduction. When that time

comes about, it's time for another 5% reduction. The reduction is always based

on the current dose, not the original dose.

By doing this in this way you will avoid all the problems that you mentioned

above as being concerning. I want to make it clear though that you are

fortunate to have a doctor who knows that these drugs cause harm to people and

though promoted this way, they were not designed to be taken on a regular basis.

It would be appropriate to be concerned that further use of this drug with no

eye because of fear of what may be without it is a very dangerous proposition.

Because of how long you've been on this drug your system will require quite a

bit of time to adjust. Patience is important here and will pay off. Rushing

through or giving up will also pay off but in a negative way.

We have many articles in the FILES of the group site. We also send quite a

few articles when people first join. You will find some helpful information in

these.

Recovery from psychotropic drugs is not merely reducing a drug (or drugs)

slowly. Healthy whole foods, quality nutritional supplements, and balance in

physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual feeding of one's self all play a role

in your recovery. There are introductory articles on many of these things in

the FILES.

There is also an article on how to break a drug down for small reductions.

You didn't say exactly how you take the 80mg a day but what you'll want to do is

do a 5% reduction on the overall dose.

For example, if you took 40 mg 2x a day for a total of 80 mg a day you would

break open one cap in 10 oz of water and drink 8 of the 10 oz twice a day. This

gives you a 2mg reduction each time for a total of 4mg. Throw away the remaining

2 mg each time.

We'll be glad to help with nutrition, too if you post a 4 day food and drink

diary. Many times, problems of the sort you describe that led to you taking

nortriptyline come from the nutrition not being good enough to support a person

during stressful times. Judging from how you present your concerns, you have

nutritional deficits right now. As I said, we're very willing to help with

this. Many people here can attest to the difference in their lives from

improving their nutrition. Most were stunned that such a difference could

occur.

Welcome to the group.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

I'm confused about the calculation for the reduction below. I'm

sorry if my brain isn't working right. But I have a good excuse.

;-)

If there is 40mg in 10 oz of water, wouldn't that mean there are

4mg in each ounce? So wouldn't Louie need to drink 9-1/2 ounces to

get a 5% (2mg) reduction? I'm sorry if I'm not thinking correctly

but I just wanted to check because I'd hate to see him make too

large a reduction and suffer the consequences. :-)

Welcome to the group, Louie!

Nance>>

** It's not 40 mg in 10 0z of water. It's 10 mg in 10 oz of water each time

that you go to take 40 mg. You only need to dissolve 1 cap in order to do the

reduction. The rest are taken as usual.

--C

A Tentative Hello (with

response)

.... ... ... ... ...

For example, if you took 40 mg 2x a day for a total of 80 mg a day

you would break open one cap in 10 oz of water and drink 8 of the

10 oz twice a day. This gives you a 2mg reduction each time for a

total of 4mg. Throw away the remaining 2 mg each time.

.... ... ... ...

[Guest guest]

<< -

My name is Scarlet. I guess I didn't use it because I am a little embarrassed to

be in this

situation. My name is not anonymous exactly and I like to keep things like this

to people

close to me. But, sometimes you need to go outside of your comfort zone.

I titled it Tentative because I have not yet decreased my dose. I want to find

out what I can

do to limit the effects of withdrawal as much as I can so that I have a lot of

the tools

necessary to make the situation livable.

I can tell you that I have not been eating the way this group suggests and that

is

something that I can change. I adore sugar and all the stuff that's bad for you

although I

only weigh 115 pounds so I don't overindulge too often. I could eat much better,

though.

I am concerned because I decreased my dose by 5 mg (which is slightly higher

than the 4

mg that you suggested) and I still had withdrawal symptoms. Any idea how long

this could

take. I just want to have myself prepared for the battle ahead.

Thanks for your prompt reply.

-Scarlet>>

** Scarlett, your email said you reduced by 10mg. When did you reduce by

5mg? I'm talking a total for the day of 4mg. for a reduction.

Regards,