Re: Healing journey discussion resources?

December 31, 2007

--- Jent Lynne <jentlynne@...> wrote:

> I'm wondering if folks have some other good resources (besides this

> list, I mean) for self-healing forums, discussion lists, or even

> books (though I'm more interested in an interactive forum).

Jent,

I don't know of any forums better than this one for discussing

self-healing. There are many knowledgeable people on this list. The

trick is to catch them and get them to comment on a given post

I've been on this list for almost two years now and have seen lots of

people come and go, including our current list owner . Some

people seem to get what they are looking for (or not) and leave.

Others stick around and try to help, but many of the more

knowledgeable members don't make their presence known very often. An

example is Sally Fallon, who used to post on this list, but I'm sure

she's way too busy running WAPF and keeping up with WAPF commitments

to have time to participate here.

You can find a huge amount of information, including accounts of

health problems, health histories, and health solutions by perusing

the NN archive using the search on the NN web page.

> In this case, I'm *not* interested in learning specific things to

> take for specific illnesses, etc. Those kind of resources are

> everywhere, these days. Instead, I'm interested in the *healing

> journey* others have taken (by choice or because left with no other

> options) outside of traditional western medicine -- AND outside of

> so-called alternative medicine (i.e., naturopaths, herbalists, et

> al, who are pretty much becoming just as corrupt and

> money-over-patient focused as their " conventional " counterparts,

> these days).

Unfortunately, I think you're right that many alternative health care

practitioners are not much better than most conventional doctors when

it comes to milking their patients for money. Finding a good doctor

is like trying to find a jewel in the desert

I'm very skeptical about most conventional health treatments,

especially those leaning on drugs and surgery, but I'm also skeptical

about a lot of alternative therapies as well. Many don't seem to have

much scientific support. That doesn't mean they don't work, but I

like to see well-designed scientific studies to confirm that a given

approach really works and is not just a placebo effect. Since there's

little money to be made by such investigations, they're few and far

between.

One of the more impressive healing journeys I've run across, thanks to

links posted on this list, is Jerry Brunetti's ordeal in overcoming

non-Hodgkins lymphoma. Here's a link where you can see him talk for a

couple of hours on two separate videos:

http://www.eatingfabulous.com/food-as-medicine-video/

The videos can be paused to take breaks and if you have to quit, you

go back to where you left off by moving the slider tab to the same

position it was in when you quit.

> I've had to make such a journey myself, and I'm looking to learn

> from others on the same path (no matter what their particular issues

> may be).

Well, why don't you tell us about it. That might spark some others to

chip in and tell their stories too

I see that there are over 60 new NN members this month and I've only

seen posts from two of them. Don't be shy!

January 1, 2008

Jent I have been on a " healing journey " since April and the changes

have been miraculous. I belong to a fairly new forum which I really

love. There is no advertising, we post our own articles, ask our own

questions etc. It is very open and an awesome resource:

http://www.yourguidetosuccess.net/community/index.php

Just a note to anyone that registers at this site...there had been a

lot of problems with spammers (for RX meds and porn) so they are

scrutinizing new members closely to prevent it from happening again.

I'm not sure if there's a spot for a comment, but if you can, say you

were referred by Patty who does all the fermenting. I'd love to see

everyone there!!! It is extremely interactive.

If you don't know about www.mercola.com, check it out, but the

advertising has become overwhelming. It has a community of people that

comment on all the articles and discussion can get rather heated

sometimes BUT there is a lot of good info to be gleaned.

--- In , Jent Lynne <jentlynne@...>

wrote:

Hello all,

I'm wondering if folks have some other good resources (besides this

list, I mean) for self-healing forums, discussion lists, or even books

(though I'm more interested in an interactive forum).

January 1, 2008

> The mercola forums are heavily censored to reflect his political bias.

>

>> >

>> > Jent I have been on a " healing journey " since April and the changes

>> > have been miraculous. I belong to a fairly new forum which I really

>> > love. There is no advertising, we post our own articles, ask our own

>> > questions etc. It is very open and an awesome resource:

>> > http://www.yourguidetosuccess.net/community/index.php

>> > Just a note to anyone that registers at this site...there had been a

>> > lot of problems with spammers (for RX meds and porn) so they are

>> > scrutinizing new members closely to prevent it from happening again.

>> > I'm not sure if there's a spot for a comment, but if you can, say you

>> > were referred by Patty who does all the fermenting. I'd love to see

>> > everyone there!!! It is extremely interactive.

>> >

>> > If you don't know about www.mercola.com, check it out, but the

>> > advertising has become overwhelming. It has a community of people that

>> > comment on all the articles and discussion can get rather heated

>> > sometimes BUT there is a lot of good info to be gleaned.

>> >

>> > Hello all,

>> > I'm wondering if folks have some other good resources (besides this

>> > list, I mean) for self-healing forums, discussion lists, or even books

>> > (though I'm more interested in an interactive forum).

January 1, 2008

Hi ,

--- <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> I don't know of any forums better than this one for discussing

> self-healing. There are many knowledgeable people on this list. The

> trick is to catch them and get them to comment on a given post

This is a great list, to be sure! I just didn't want to get too far off topic

-- though I realize here that can be pretty far afield

> Unfortunately, I think you're right that many alternative health care

> practitioners are not much better than most conventional doctors when

> it comes to milking their patients for money. Finding a good doctor

> is like trying to find a jewel in the desert

I've really given up, myself, trying to find a " good " doctor. Since it was

(finally) that time of year when we're allowed to change our health plans at

work, I just switched from (more expensive) health insurance that allowed me

to go to almost any doctor, to (less expensive) health insurance through an

HMO that only allows me to see its doctors. I decided that if I wasn't going

to get anything from my doctor, then at least I shouldn't have to pay for

anything, either...

Years ago, I had picked the more expensive " go to any doctor " plan because I

wanted to be able to find the answers I needed for the health issues I was

having, and didn't want to get the HMO-runaround.

Problem was, over several years I spent tens of thousands of dollars for

doctors, specialists, tests large and small, and more -- and had *nothing* to

show for it. All those years, I kept trying different doctors, almost smug in

my ability to pick and choose as I needed, and certain that eventually I'd

find the doctor that had graduated from med school with brains intact.

Then I finally realized that whether the doctor was young or old, male or

female, specialist or internist or GP or even nurse practitioner, and so on,

they all gave one of the same three very-poorly-thought-out answers: (1) " It's

all in your head " , or (2) " Let's just watch it and see what happens " , or (3)

" Take this drug to cover your symptoms. If that doesn't work, we'll try Answer

#1 " .

> I'm very skeptical about most conventional health treatments,

> especially those leaning on drugs and surgery, but I'm also skeptical

> about a lot of alternative therapies as well. Many don't seem to have

> much scientific support. That doesn't mean they don't work, but I

> like to see well-designed scientific studies to confirm that a given

> approach really works and is not just a placebo effect. Since there's

> little money to be made by such investigations, they're few and far

> between.

I agree -- and I've been very science-based my whole life. Not getting

anything from conventional medicine made me really look at its science, and

realize that almost all of its " evidence " is self-serving poppycock that

wouldn't stand up to a 5th grade science class, if really examined. Modern-day

" science " has simply become a secular-religion and money-maker to most in it,

it seems. And that makes me very sad, since I do love science so much

What I came to realize in the last several years (and it's been hard for me to

realize it), is that a lot of " evidence-based " conventional medicine is also

placebo-effect (and if not that, then -- as for psych drugs -- it's simply

damaging the body to an extent that it can't make symptoms anymore. Sort of

like smashing out the " check engine " light and then pronouncing " that's the

best anyone can do! " )

Conventional medicine also relies on a lot of presumption that is completely

ridiculous. For example, my grandmother was just in the hospital and while I

was overseeing her care I realized they have her on 12 different medications

-- for her heart, and to counter new symptoms her heart medicines are

generating. I don't even have to look to affirm that there are NO studies

(even poorly done!) that even suggest that these 12 medicines work safely

together in the human body -- much less HER human body. Which means these

" evidence-based medicine " doctors are acting on -- what else could one call it

but... faith! (Faith that all these different chemicals will do more good than

harm, faith that undetected or undetectable signs of things amiss don't mean

anything, etc).

As for alternative medicine, I think there is a core of it that has a lot of

merit -- and that it *can* prove itself through demonstration, even if not

through clinical trials (which I don't believe can ever understand or explain

or justify everything important, anyway). There used to be an acceptance of

and curiosity about such demonstrations in scientific " days of yore " that we

don't have today -- again, probably because it isn't as profitable or

ego-boosting.

For other alternative medicine, I think it's full of a lot of hooey -- but no

more so than conventional medicine, I now believe. It was in alternative

medicine that I was finally able to get my food allergies taken seriously, for

example. Other than that, I've gotten nothing of any real value from it, so

far.

> One of the more impressive healing journeys I've run across, thanks to

> links posted on this list, is Jerry Brunetti's ordeal in overcoming

> non-Hodgkins lymphoma. Here's a link where you can see him talk for a

I will check it out -- thanks!

> > I've had to make such a journey myself, and I'm looking to learn

> > from others on the same path (no matter what their particular issues

> > may be).

>

> Well, why don't you tell us about it. That might spark some others to

> chip in and tell their stories too

It would take too long to tell much detail (though several good rants would

cover it , but the gist of the last several years is that I've been given

diagnoses for chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia, pre-glaucoma, a bad and incurable

heart rhythm problem, and more. Had I listened to my MDs, I would have been on

disability by now, and going downhill fast. Instead, I learned the hard way to

do my own investigation, and not to trust " paper-experts " any more than I

should fear paper-tigers.

At this point, I'm still healing some of the problems that came up with the

other issues (for example, I have a lot of weight to lose that I gained during

the years of not being about to move). But the original problems are almost

GONE (even the " incurable " ones). And it took no pharma drug or expert to get

me this far! Instead, it took learning to eat, move, and sleep like my

ancestors did (I'm still learning how to do this), and adding a few basic

supplements (some I'm still tweaking with for maximum benefit).

If I had known at the start what I know now, I would never have gotten into

these health problems in the first place. If I had, I could have cured them

with some good food, CoQ10, and trusting other people who'd already " been

there " (real " elders " ) instead of people who'd only read about the trip but

had no real experience with the terrain (the " experts " ).

Jent

" The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my soul to be

bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What

demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -Henry Thoreau

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

January 1, 2008

Hi Patty,

--- Patty <mellowsong@...> wrote:

> Jent I have been on a " healing journey " since April and the changes

> have been miraculous. I belong to a fairly new forum which I really

> love. There is no advertising, we post our own articles, ask our own

> questions etc. It is very open and an awesome resource:

> http://www.yourguidetosuccess.net/community/index.php

Thanks! I will check it out!

Jent

" The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my soul to be

bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What

demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -Henry Thoreau

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

January 1, 2008

--- Ancient Eyeball Recipe <implode7@...> wrote:

> > The mercola forums are heavily censored to reflect his political bias.

I'm not surprised. In any event, I don't use his resources anyway -- I never

found him saying anything others hadn't been saying already for years and

without requiring submitting email address for spam and ads and so on...

Jent

" The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my soul to be

bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What

demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -Henry Thoreau

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

January 2, 2008

You might try the Ask Dr. Stoll Bulletin Board:

http://www.askwaltstollmd.com/wwwboard/bigwwwboard.html

-Colin

>

> Hello all,

>

> I'm wondering if folks have some other good resources (besides this

list, I

> mean) for self-healing forums, discussion lists, or even books

(though I'm

> more interested in an interactive forum).

>

January 2, 2008

Dear Jent,

If that's what you call ranting, well then keep it coming!!! You have an

incredible way with words (you remind me of my good friend Patty who has

accomplished similar things and already wrote you on this thread). I think that

those of you who have had the courage to step away from the failure of

conventional medicine and investigate and bring a measure of health and healing

to your bodies are to be applauded and commended.

I have not had to battle any physical ailments thus far, but am here trying to

recover my son from autism (or so they labeled him a few years back, but we know

those are just symptoms and labels). It has been very trying and difficult, but

at least I have had the stamina to do it, I just marvel at those of you who have

not felt well, but have risen up to research and experiment and agains all odds

recover your health.

Thanks for being so inspiring. Blessings and continued health to you,

Millie

January 2, 2008

--- Jent Lynne <jentlynne@...> wrote:

> Then I finally realized that whether the doctor was young or old,

> male or female, specialist or internist or GP or even nurse

> practitioner, and so on, they all gave one of the same three

> very-poorly-thought-out answers: (1) " It's all in your head " , or (2)

> " Let's just watch it and see what happens " , or (3) " Take this drug

> to cover your symptoms. If that doesn't work, we'll try Answer #1 " .

Jent, LOL! I think you're right about most medical doctors. After

all, they are trained in " medicine " and not in health care

There are a few really good health care practitioners out there, but

how can they possibly keep up with all the demand? We definitely need

more people who care about holistic health and are not in it just for

the money.

> Not getting anything from conventional medicine made me really look

> at its science, and realize that almost all of its " evidence " is

> self-serving poppycock that wouldn't stand up to a 5th grade science

> class, if really examined.

Yes, definitely. Some of it is good science, but there's an awful lot

of pre-conceived pet conclusions that are not supported by the

evidence. And woe be unto those who do not draw conclusions that are

accepted by the mainstream " authorities " . No more funding for them!

> Modern-day " science " has simply become a secular-religion and

> money-maker to most in it, it seems. And that makes me very sad,

> since I do love science so much

It's not a total loss. Sometimes the weight of evidence finally

overcomes the favored but incorrect theories. A good example of that

recently is the final recognition that artificial trans fats are bad.

Hallelujah! And I'm not even religious

And slowly but surely more scientists are recognizing that saturated

fats are not bad and that too much omega-6 PUFA is bad.

Maybe I should say praise Mother Nature! The tide is turning!

> For other alternative medicine, I think it's full of a lot of hooey

> -- but no more so than conventional medicine, I now believe. It was

> in alternative medicine that I was finally able to get my food

> allergies taken seriously, for example. Other than that, I've gotten

> nothing of any real value from it, so far.

From what I've read, true food allergies may be a sign of improper

digestion of proteins and/or damage to the intestinal lining and/or

prominence of unfavorable microbes in the digestive system - or all of

the above.

> I've been given diagnoses for chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia,

> pre-glaucoma, a bad and incurable heart rhythm problem, and more.

> Had I listened to my MDs, I would have been on disability by now,

> and going downhill fast. Instead, I learned the hard way to do my

> own investigation, and not to trust " paper-experts " any more than I

> should fear paper-tigers.

>

> At this point, I'm still healing some of the problems that came up

> with the other issues (for example, I have a lot of weight to lose

> that I gained during the years of not being about to move). But the

> original problems are almost GONE (even the " incurable " ones). And

> it took no pharma drug or expert to get me this far! Instead, it

> took learning to eat, move, and sleep like my ancestors did (I'm

> still learning how to do this), and adding a few basic supplements

> (some I'm still tweaking with for maximum benefit).

Sounds like you're making good progress.

> If I had known at the start what I know now, I would never have

> gotten into these health problems in the first place. If I had, I

> could have cured them with some good food, CoQ10, and trusting other

> people who'd already " been there " (real " elders " ) instead of people

> who'd only read about the trip but had no real experience with the

> terrain (the " experts " ).

Yes, hindsight is 20/20 ;-)

January 5, 2008

Hi Millie,

--- Millie Krejci <moozy21@...> wrote:

> I have not had to battle any physical ailments thus far, but am here trying

> to recover my son from autism (or so they labeled him a few years back, but

> we know those are just symptoms and labels). It has been very trying and

> difficult, but at least I have had the stamina to do it, I just marvel at

> those of you who have not felt well, but have risen up to research and

> experiment and agains all odds recover your health.

It's wonderful that you are doing these things for your son -- great that

you've recognized the problem isn't all within him, and great that you're

doing things to help him get and do better.

I had said in an earlier post that if I'd known better, I wouldn't have gotten

sick in the first place. In part, though, that isn't really true -- I know I

was born with an allergy to dairy/casein (based on symptoms I had even during

the first few weeks of life). I believe now that this tends to run in some

parts of my family, because others have similar problems to me (I just

continue to be the only one dealing with it).

However, when I was a little kid, no one recognized my food allergy -- they

only saw the behavioral and physical *symptoms* of it, and they acted against

those. They punished me, ragged on me, gave me pills, threatened me with

surgeries, and so on -- but they never actually *fixed* ANYthing. So through

all the 40+ years of my life -- until I stumbled across the answer myself -- I

continued to damage myself with eating that was poisoning me. That leaves me

with 40+ years of damage to undo. Very difficult!

But when I hear stories about folks like you -- parents who are working to see

the bigger picture of their child's challenge(s), who aren't just accepting

the diagnostic label that's really a dampening field around further

consideration and thought about the issue -- I feel good about the world all

over again You may never realize how great an asset and blessing you are to

your child, because you are indeed helping when he IS a child. He won't be

someone who gets to his middle years before someone tries to figure out what

his *real* issues are. He's already got someone in his corner

Hang in there when it's hard -- you (and those like you) are doing great

things, even in those moments you can't see it

Jent

" The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my soul to be

bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What

demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -Henry Thoreau

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Search.

http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

January 5, 2008

--- <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> Jent, LOL! I think you're right about most medical doctors. After

> all, they are trained in " medicine " and not in health care

And unfortunately for us, they are trained in allopathic medicine, which had

its rise as part of corporatism. And even when they do finally reach out to

other forms of health care, it's simply to remake it under the allopathic

model. Hence things like " active ingredient " herbal medicines, which are just

as likely to be ineffective, dangerous, and symptom-covering-only as most

pharm drugs are...

> There are a few really good health care practitioners out there, but

> how can they possibly keep up with all the demand? We definitely need

> more people who care about holistic health and are not in it just for

> the money.

I've been reading about native american healing -- not because I'm native

american or because I plan on practicing or using their methods, but because

I'm interested in learning how a lot of other people use and approach health

and healing. One thing that struck me first off was their idea that yes,

someone does need to pay for the healer's services, because the medicine

doesn't work unless the one needing it gives something for it. *However*, the

payment for the healer's services might only be a pouch of good tobacco, or a

few nice native blankets, and so on. I've read that no one gets rich doing

real native american medicine -- and that that's one of the ways to tell a

real healer from a fake: are they truly tending to their patient's need for

help, or are they just exploiting their patient's need for help for their own

financial and/or ego gain? Something I found interesting to think about, since

I'm now more interested in " elder wisdom " (in the way that may express itself

in my modern, western life) than " expert regurgitation of facts " (which is all

my modern, western culture wants to offer, anymore).

> Yes, definitely. Some of it is good science, but there's an awful lot

> of pre-conceived pet conclusions that are not supported by the

> evidence. And woe be unto those who do not draw conclusions that are

> accepted by the mainstream " authorities " . No more funding for them!

Too true! It makes me wonder: whatever happened to the (true) spirit of

inquiry? Whatever happened to curiosity? When I was a kid, I couldn't stop

inhaling every science book (from astronomy to zoology) I could get my hands

on, because I wanted to know what the world was like and how it functioned.

Perhaps that's my real frustration with so-called " medical science " as it's

practiced today: there is no real inquiry. There's only the fastest guess

possible regarding which preconceived-fad-idea-of-the-decade one or more

symptoms can be lumped together in.

So that, for example, when I showed up with intermittent tingling in my hands,

and said, " I have NO idea what's causing this, but I do know that while I

can't make it go away once it's there, I CAN make it happen every time by

doing this, or this, or this " -- no doctor was interested. In fact, they all

gave me the " I hate it when the wackos come in... " look, as if my trying to

figure it out marked me as somehow a bit " mental " .

Another time, a good friend of mine who happens to be an M.D. watched over

several months as almost all of my chronic fatigue/fibromylgia symptoms

disappeared (some in a week) when I stopped eating foods I showed IgE and IgG

allergies for -- but even she, who KNEW me to not be a " wacko " , refused to

believe it was really happening. She decided that it was all a placebo effect.

When I got rid of my heart rhythm problem with only some simply lifestyle and

eating changes, my cardiologist refused to accept it -- even when it never

came back. But then, this was the same doctor who insisted that I take high

blood pressure precautions even though I had (have) normal blood pressure,

because I have extra pounds and I exercise (neither of which she approved of).

And this was the same doctor who made me wear a heart monitor device for 24

hours to record what was happening with my heart, but then didn't " need " to

look at the results to make major decisions about my health.

The problem with modern medical science is that it does not produce people who

think -- it produces people who think alike. It selects for people who can

memorize large quantities of factoids, and then string them together in

certain " acceptable " ways -- and then it crowns these people as THE wise

health lords that we should entrust even our bodies, even our lives, even our

loved ones' lives to. It's truly ridiculous.

> It's not a total loss. Sometimes the weight of evidence finally

> overcomes the favored but incorrect theories. A good example of that

> recently is the final recognition that artificial trans fats are bad.

> Hallelujah! And I'm not even religious

>

> And slowly but surely more scientists are recognizing that saturated

> fats are not bad and that too much omega-6 PUFA is bad.

> Maybe I should say praise Mother Nature! The tide is turning!

I'm guessing it will be slow getting through the ranks, however. When my

cardiologist asked me about my diet, I told her " I realized that my

grandparents are even today the healthiest people I've ever known (they are

currently in their 90's), so I'm starting to eat and live like they always

did. " Which *totally* freaked her out

> From what I've read, true food allergies may be a sign of improper

> digestion of proteins and/or damage to the intestinal lining and/or

> prominence of unfavorable microbes in the digestive system - or all of

> the above.

I'm guessing my troubles along this route came with an IgE allergy to casein

that I was born with (I also believe that several other members of my family

also have this problem -- but I'm the only one trying to deal with it, even

today). I base that on a combination of things, including my mother's

complaint that I was colicky forever as a baby, the chronic ear infections I

often had as a child, my " foggy " mental state a good deal of my childhood, and

chronic nasal congestion -- all of which were relieved within 3 months of

going 100% off dairy (when I was an adult and went vegan for a year -- I had

no idea at that time that I had any food problems), and all of which returned

within the day when I started on dairy once again.

I now have other IgG allergy reactions that I know I didn't have before

(because before going off dairy solved everything -- but now 10 years later I

have to go off all these other things, as well, to get the same result). I

believe these were caused in large part by my gut being damaged with years of

non-native nutrition, chronic inflammation (e.g., allergens, etc), and so on.

I'm getting better with all of it, though, by doing what I'm doing, and

continuing to tweak my nutrition as I find works for me.

>

> <the one who learns things the hard way>

Jent <the one who invented " only learn the hard way -- it doesn't count double

as 'character' if you don't " >

" The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my soul to be

bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What

demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -Henry Thoreau

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

January 6, 2008

--- <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> > We definitely need more people who care about holistic health and

> > are not in it just for the money.

>

--- Jent Lynne <jentlynne@...> wrote:

> I've been reading about native american healing -- not because I'm

> native american or because I plan on practicing or using their

> methods, but because I'm interested in learning how a lot of other

> people use and approach health and healing. One thing that struck me

> first off was their idea that yes, someone does need to pay for the

> healer's services, because the medicine doesn't work unless the one

> needing it gives something for it. *However*, the payment for the

> healer's services might only be a pouch of good tobacco, or a few

> nice native blankets, and so on. I've read that no one gets rich

> doing real native american medicine -- and that that's one of the

> ways to tell a real healer from a fake: are they truly tending to

> their patient's need for help, or are they just exploiting their

> patient's need for help for their own financial and/or ego gain?

Jent, that's interesting. Health care providers definitely need to

make a decent living and I think that's to be expected. What I

dislike is our modern medical widget treatment - where patients are

treated more like assembly line widgets - check symptoms, prescribe

medicine or surgery, and as quickly as possible to make more money.

Not all of the blame lies in the medical system, because most patients

expect quick fixes to their symptoms and don't understand that

treating symptoms very often does not really improve their health and

likely will make it worse. There are plenty of drugs that do provide

quick symptom relief - but as you know, at a price of serious side

effects when abused. And most drugs tend to be abused, including the

over-the-counter drugs.

> Perhaps that's my real frustration with so-called " medical science "

> as it's practiced today: there is no real inquiry. There's only the

> fastest guess possible regarding which preconceived-fad-idea-

> of-the-decade one or more symptoms can be lumped together in.

The more I read about health and life, the more I find that it is

*extremely* complicated. I don't think anyone can really be sure how

it all works. So, we do have to start with hypotheses.

Unfortunately, some scientists commit to a theory and then blindly

support it even when the evidence mounts that the theory doesn't

explain reality. Pride and ego play a large role here. Scientists

can be just as prone to this shortcoming as everyone else.

> Another time, a good friend of mine who happens to be an M.D.

> watched over several months as almost all of my chronic

> fatigue/fibromylgia symptoms disappeared (some in a week) when I

> stopped eating foods I showed IgE and IgG allergies for -- but even

> she, who KNEW me to not be a " wacko " , refused to believe it was

> really happening. She decided that it was all a placebo effect.

A perfect example of how cherished beliefs can be blinding. That's

why it's so important to try to keep an open mind and to weigh the

evidence as fairly as possible.

> The problem with modern medical science is that it does not produce

> people who think -- it produces people who think alike. It selects

> for people who can memorize large quantities of factoids, and then

> string them together in certain " acceptable " ways -- and then it

> crowns these people as THE wise health lords that we should entrust

> even our bodies, even our lives, even our loved ones' lives to. It's

> truly ridiculous.

Yes, this is a serious problem. Fortunately, there are always a few

free thinkers who don't manage to get hammered down.

> > The tide is turning!

>

> I'm guessing it will be slow getting through the ranks, however.

You can be sure of that, unfortunately. Too much pride and ego at

stake ... and potential lawsuits

> I'm guessing my troubles along this route came with an IgE allergy

> to casein that I was born with

I'm curious - were you breast or bottle fed? I've read that breast

fed children are much less likely to have allergies.

January 6, 2008

> Thanks for your thoughts -

> Jent

Jent, I enjoy Dr. Eades' blog. He is an MD but believes we can

avoid most health care with good food and the right exercise. Very

down on the medicine-happy mainstream and lots of posts on what's

really behind mainstream recommendations (and why to ignore them).

I also enjoy the RMAX forums. It's run by Sonnon who has a

physical exercise system and the forums are about that. But lots of

people there have healed amazing things using the body's own abilities.

The premise is health first and the belief system is that the body

wants our birthright of health wellness and will go there if we just

get out of the way if you know what I mean.

Connie

January 6, 2008

Jent-

> This is a great list, to be sure! I just didn't want to get too far

> off topic

> -- though I realize here that can be pretty far afield

Rest assured, health is always the most on-topic topic there is on

this list, even if other topics get discussed too!

-

January 6, 2008

Jent,

> I've really given up, myself, trying to find a " good " doctor.

You might want to contact your local WAPF chapter leader and see if

they keep a list of WAPF-friendly practitioners in your area. You can

find the nearest chapter leader here:

http://www.westonaprice.org/localchapters/index.html#locallist

Also, if you are looking for a good dentist, call PPNF:

http://www.ppnf.org/catalog/ppnf/

And ask for a dentist in your area who is familiar with Price's root

canal removal procedure. They keep tabs of dentists who do that, and,

unless it was complete coincidence that the one near me happens to be

a totally awesome dentist and very holistic and patient-centered and

so on, that list probably correlates pretty well with dentists you'd

consider " good. "

Chris

January 7, 2008

--- <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> Jent, that's interesting. Health care providers definitely need to

> make a decent living and I think that's to be expected. What I

> dislike is our modern medical widget treatment - where patients are

> treated more like assembly line widgets - check symptoms, prescribe

> medicine or surgery, and as quickly as possible to make more money.

Agreed. If auto mechanics or plumbers behaved this way (e.g., " I didn't really

fix the leak in your basement -- but I did lock the door going down INTO the

basement, so you're all taken care of! " ), people would be more outraged...

> Not all of the blame lies in the medical system, because most patients

> expect quick fixes to their symptoms and don't understand that

> treating symptoms very often does not really improve their health and

> likely will make it worse. There are plenty of drugs that do provide

> quick symptom relief - but as you know, at a price of serious side

> effects when abused. And most drugs tend to be abused, including the

> over-the-counter drugs.

It's very true that most people just want to be spoon-fed " answers " -- even if

they are wrong. And I'd happily be among them, if it actually worked to be

that way! Truthfully, if I could eat twinkies and pizza, lay around watching

boxing and football while drinking pepsi all day, I have to tell you I'd do it

Problem for me was that my body short-circuited on that kind of eating and

living. Problem for most other people, though, is that their bodies

short-circuit and they refuse to do anything different. Those are the people

maxing out MD retirement funds..

> The more I read about health and life, the more I find that it is

> *extremely* complicated. I don't think anyone can really be sure how

> it all works. So, we do have to start with hypotheses.

I agree with that, completely. What I've come to though, is that:

(1) Nature and our bodies are too complicated to EVER really figure out. Even

a trillion scientists with research money coming out of their ears will never

really be able to understand it (break it -- yes. Understand it -- no), BUT:

(2) Nature and our bodies do (for the most part) function quite well on their

own accord when fed and cared for in certain basic ways consistently (no

twinkies, for example, and PLAY football, don't just watch it , AND:

(3) It's easier to figure out what it takes to keep a functioning highly

complex system going (what things does it " feed " on?) than to monkey with it

once it starts breaking down (how can I put Humpty Dumpty back together

again?), THEREFORE:

(4) Let's figure out the eating, sleeping, exercise, etc these systems

function best with so we aren't stuck trying to reassemble more than we have

control over.

> Unfortunately, some scientists commit to a theory and then blindly

> support it even when the evidence mounts that the theory doesn't

> explain reality. Pride and ego play a large role here. Scientists

> can be just as prone to this shortcoming as everyone else.

<sigh> It takes all the excitement out of science, when it becomes nothing

more than a protected paycheck.

> > The problem with modern medical science is that it does not produce

> > people who think -- it produces people who think alike. It selects

> > for people who can memorize large quantities of factoids, and then

> > string them together in certain " acceptable " ways -- and then it

> > crowns these people as THE wise health lords that we should entrust

> > even our bodies, even our lives, even our loved ones' lives to. It's

> > truly ridiculous.

>

> Yes, this is a serious problem. Fortunately, there are always a few

> free thinkers who don't manage to get hammered down.

This is also true. I was able to correct my " incurable " heart problems by

using the supplement info from a small book written by an MD. His book talked

about all the reasons no one should follow traditional MD wisdom regarding

high blood pressure, heart disease, cholesterol, etc, and what works better

through lifestyle, supplements, other eating choices, and so on.

Therefore, I was able to save myself from my cardiology MD by using the advice

from another MD. Kind of like " Rook takes Bishop "

> > I'm guessing it will be slow getting through the ranks, however.

>

> You can be sure of that, unfortunately. Too much pride and ego at

> stake ... and potential lawsuits

Was it in this group that I found this? http://www.ratemds.com/

Where you can rate and read ratings of MDs? Great stuff And about time!

> > I'm guessing my troubles along this route came with an IgE allergy

> > to casein that I was born with

>

> I'm curious - were you breast or bottle fed? I've read that breast

> fed children are much less likely to have allergies.

I was bottle fed. I'm pretty certain that some older members of my family also

have an IgE allergy to dairy, as well, and I'm guessing they were breast fed??

Not sure.

Jent

" The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my soul to be

bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What

demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -Henry Thoreau

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

January 7, 2008

Hi Connie,

--- cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...> wrote:

> Jent, I enjoy Dr. Eades' blog. He is an MD but believes we can

>

> I also enjoy the RMAX forums. It's run by Sonnon who has a

Thanks! I will check them both out!

> The premise is health first and the belief system is that the body

> wants our birthright of health wellness and will go there if we just

> get out of the way if you know what I mean.

I do now -- though I wouldn't have understood that 10 years ago

Jent

" The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my soul to be

bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What

demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -Henry Thoreau

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

January 7, 2008

I dislike the preponderance of invasive testing and procedures, most of which

are barbaric.

Katy Brezger

http://to-reverse-diabetes.blogspot.com/

Be a Blessing, Find ways to be someone's Santa Claus all year 'round. May you be

so richly blessed that you will bless others with what overflows from your cup.