Re: soaking vs sprouting [soaking after cooking?]

[Guest guest]

--- Sharon son <skericson@...> wrote:

> One of my main irritants with Fallon is that the whole grain soaking

> vs. germination/sprouting isn't properly addressed. There's too much

> emphasis on soaking, instead of discussing the nutritional benefits of

> germinating seeds/grains/legumes.

Sharon,

I thought I remembered NT saying that there were trade-offs between

soaking and sprouting when it comes to nutrients and that sprouting

increases some natural pesticides? I don't have time to look it up now.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

What I tend to look for are the known toxins - like gliadin, for example -

which can be annihilated through the proteases resulting from the

germination/fermentation process: http://tiny.cc/8BVC8

There's a whole lot of myths out there about toxins in germinated

seeds/grains/legumes. Here's one of the classic rebuttals to that, written

by Warren Peary and Peavy:

NATURAL TOXINS IN SPROUTED SEEDS: SEPARATING MYTH FROM REALITY By Warren

Peary and Peavy, Ph.D.

Natural toxins in food has become a hot and controversial subject recently.

In the last few years, some popular writers have attacked sprouts

(particularly alfalfa and legume sprouts) as containing natural toxins.

These writers may have heard something about a lathyrogen toxin, saponins,

canavanine, and maybe other nasty-sounding toxins, and concluded that the

sprouts of legumes are toxic in the raw state and so should not be eaten.

These statements are taken out of context.

*LATHYROGEN TOXIN*

One of the natural toxins that has been mentioned comes from peas of the

genus Lathyrus. It is blamed for causing a disease known as lathyrism.

Lathyrism causes paralysis in the legs in susceptible individuals and is

believed to be caused by a toxic amino acid. This sounds scary, but it's

not, because peas of the genus Lathyrus are NOT edible peas. The toxin is

found only in the seeds of certain Lathyrus species (L. sativus, L. cicera,

L. clymenum).1 Edible peas and beans are of the genera Cicer, Glycine,

Phaseolus, Pisum, and Vigna. They DO NOT contain any such toxin.

Non-edible peas of the genus Lathyrus include sweet peas, which are

ornamentals grown for their scented flowers. In India, where food is often

scarce, some people have resorted to eating a non-edible pea known as

Lathyrus sativus. It is often called " chickpea " but is NOT the same chickpea

eaten in this country or any other developed country. The edible chickpea is

of the genus Cicer and in botany is known as Cicer arieti-num.

Outbreaks of lathyrism in India have been blamed on eating large amounts of

the non-edible chickpea without proper cooking. Well-cooked, it is safe to

eat. But it shouldn't matter to us at all because it is considered an

inedible species.

There are at least 1,500 species of legumes within one of three subfamilies

of the family Leguminosae (Latin for legume). Of these 1,500 species, only a

few dozen are regularly used as human food. Of course there are toxins in

many of the raw legumes not usually used for human food; that's why humans

have learned not to eat them. This is the first mistake sometimes made in

warning about natural toxins - talking about a toxin that's found in some

non-edible species people don't or shouldn't eat to begin with!

*SAPONINS*

The second mistake often made in talking about natural toxins is to call

something toxic that, in the body, is not toxic at all but rather, is

beneficial. Such is the case with saponins.

Saponins are a compound found in legumes and legume sprouts. They are toxic

to red blood cells only in vitro (outside of the body in a test tube) but

harmless when ingested.2-3 In fact, Saponins appear to be beneficial, being

responsible for a major part of the cholesterol- lowering effect of

legumes.3 Perhaps it is more than coincidence that the increase in the

incidence of heart disease in the 20th century in the Western countries

coincides with a decline in the consumption of saponin-rich legumes.

Saponins also seem to be anticarcinogens; in one study they inhibited colon

cancer.4

Even some of the most beneficial nutrients, such as vitamin C, can be shown

to be toxic under certain laboratory conditions. Vitamin C is considered an

important antioxidant, and substantial evidence shows that it is involved in

cancer prevention.5 Yet under the right experimental conditions, in the

presence of iron (Fe III) or copper (Cu II) ions, ascorbic acid can actually

cause the formation of harmful free radicals.6 Does this mean you should try

to avoid vitamin C? Absolutely not! These experimental conditions do not

appear to be relevant to what goes on in our bodies.

*CANAVANINE*

The third mistake made in warning about some natural toxins is failing to

say that the amount encountered in a food is so minuscule that it is

completely insignificant. Such is the case with a toxin called canavanine,

which is found in alfalfa seeds. While some writers may make canavanine

sound like a dangerous carcinogen - it isn't. Canavanine is a non-protein

amino acid that's toxic in high amounts. In the dry seed it serves as a

storage protein, a growth inhibitor, and a defense against natural

predators. As you might guess, as the sprout grows, canavanine falls rapidly

to insignificant levels.7 The text, Seed Physiology, clearly states that

" Canavanine...is non-toxic to mammals at low concentration. " 8 Canavanine is

so irrelevant that the 1980 text, Toxic Constituents of Plant Foodstuffs,

doesn't even mention it. A 150-pound human would have to consume 14,000

milligrams of canavanine all at once for it to be toxic at the same level it

is toxic in mice.9 This is an incredible amount! It is doubtful that with a

generous helping of alfalfa sprouts, you would get more than a few

milligrams. There is NO canavanine at all in other legumes that are commonly

used as human food.7, 10

Even in toxic amounts, canavanine has nothing to do with cancer. In very

high, toxic amounts it can cause a lupus-like anemia in susceptible animals

due to an alteration in the red blood cells. These studies are not relevant

to the human diet. The minute doses found in the diet are completely

irrelevant and harmless.

Just remember that most substances can show some kind of toxic effect at a

high enough dose. Vitamin A, selenium, copper, zinc, and iron will all kill

you at a high enough dose. So don't stop eating alfalfa sprouts any more

than you would any other food because of some minute toxin that may be

present. They are a good source of vitamin C, folic acid, and other

protective compounds.

*ANTI-NUTRIENTS IN SPROUTED LEGUMES*

As far as the sprouts of other edible legumes go, the only other toxins for

which any concern has been raised is for a class known as anti- nutrients.

These are sub-stances that bind enzymes or nutrients and inhibit the

absorption of the nutrients. The commonly alleged anti- nutrients are

protease inhibitors, amylase inhib-itors, phytic acid, and polyphenolic

compounds such as tannins. With proper soaking and germination, none of

these is anything to worry about.

Around the world, studies have been and are being conducted on the use of

germinated seeds as a low-cost, highly nutritive source of human food. It is

well-established that when legumes are properly soaked and germinated, their

nutritive value increases greatly, usually to levels equal to or exceeding

those of the cooked bean. (Nutritive value is the ability of food to provide

a usable form of nutrients: protein, carbohydrates, vitamins and minerals).

This has been shown for mung bean, 11-13 lentil,13-14 chickpea (garbanzo

bean), 15-17 cowpea (blackeye pea), 18 pigeon pea,19 fava bean,20-21

fenugreek seeds22-23 (a member of the pea family), green & black gram,15-17

kidney bean,24-26 moth bean,27 rice bean,28 soybean,13, 29-36 and legumes in

general.37-40

The increase in nutritive value in the raw sprouted seed is due to an

explosion of enzyme activity, which breaks down the storage-protein and

starch in the seed into amino acids, peptides, and simpler carbohydrates

needed for the seed to grow. The seed is literally digesting its own protein

and starch and creating amino acids in the process. Because of this process,

sprouted seeds are essentially a predigested food. At the same time, the

anti-nutritional factors such as enzyme inhibitors and other anti-nutrients

are greatly decreased to insignificant levels or to nothing.11, 20, 22, 33,

41-65

Soaking alone causes a significant decrease in anti-nutrients, as the

antinutrients are leached into the soak water. Soaking for 18 hours removed

65% of hemag-glutinin activity in peas.66 Soaking for 24 hours at room

temperature removed 66% of the trypsin (protease) inhibitor activity in mung

bean, 93% in lentil, 59% in chickpea, and 100% in broad bean.42 Then as

germination proceeds, anti-nutrients are degraded further to lower levels or

nothing. Soaking for 12 hours and 3-4 days of germination completely removed

all hemagglutinating activity in mung bean and lentil.56 Soaking for 10

hours and germination for 3 days completely eliminated amylase inhibitor in

lentils.62 Normal cooking removes most or all of the anti-nutrients.

*ANTI-NUTRIENTS AS PROTECTORS *

Some of the substances commonly referred to as anti-nutrients are actually

powerful cancer-protecting phyto-chemicals. These include protease

inhibitors and tannins. The problem in most diets is that we don't get

enough of these substances.

Substantial research shows that protease inhibitors are one of the most

powerful anti-carcinogens we have in our arsenal. They have proven to be

particularly protective against cancer of the colon, breast, and prostate.

67-72

Tannins have also been shown to give substantial protection against cancer

(including cancer of the stomach and lungs) when ingested orally.72 Tannins

and other polyphenols may play a role in fighting tooth decay. Evidence

shows that some tannins inhibit the growth of bacteria that cause tooth

decay.73

Phytates, like tannins, may also interact with digestive processes in a

beneficial way. Small amounts in food slow down the absorption of sugars and

regulate insulin levels. This is beneficial in the prevention and treatment

of diabetes and hyperlipidemia (high blood fats).74

Small amounts of protease inhibitors, tannins, and phytates are beneficial

and can be considered to be a normal part of our nutritional ecology.

*ENDNOTES*

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cooking on the antinutrients of black gram. Food Chem 1988; 30:149-156.

55. Kataria A, Chauhan BM, Punia D. Antinutrients in black gram and mung

bean. Plant Food Hum Nutr 1989; 39: 257-266.

56. Khader V. Nutritional studies on fermented, germinated and baked soybean

preparations. J Plant Foods 1983; 5: 31-37.

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of P. vulgaris and the effect of germination. Food Chem 1990; 36: 53-61.

64. KA, Tan- AL. Characterization of the protease that

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Plant Physiol 1987; 84: 93-98.

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66. Bender AE. Haemagglutinins in beans. Food Chem 1983; 11: 309-320.

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Warren Peary is an investigative health journalist. S. Peavy holds a

doctoral degree from Kansas State University in horticultural science. They

can be reached at 316 Horton Lane NW, Albuquerque, NM 87114.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

One additional thought before my kids interrupt me again...LOL.......imo,

germinated seeds/grains/legumes are right up there with raw milk as far as

offering whole food nutrition, above and beyond any comparison to their

processed counterparts, inappropriately marketed to the masses as food. I,

for one, wish Fallon and Company would look more seriously at the

nutritional benefits of germinated food items, as thoroughly as food

scientists outside U.S. borders have reviewed them. It's the one last

" real " food item Fallon & Enig have ignored, and personally, I find it

irritating and irresponsible. *sigh* Okay, that's probably too strong, so

let's just say perturbing - as perturbing as it would be if they were

talking about " toxins " in raw milk, ignoring all the other aspects of

beneficial bacteria which is more than capable of fighting off the bad

guys. Well, from what I see of germinated seeds/grains/legumes, same is

true for them - they're more than able to produce enough defensive elements

in order to hold their own in the nutrition, healthy-food world against

toxins, becoming " powerhouses of nutrition " - a term often used to describe

them when I review food science journals......

Sharon

On Jan 2, 2008 2:01 PM, <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> --- Sharon son <skericson@...> wrote:

> > One of my main irritants with Fallon is that the whole grain soaking

> > vs. germination/sprouting isn't properly addressed. There's too much

> > emphasis on soaking, instead of discussing the nutritional benefits of

> > germinating seeds/grains/legumes.

>

> Sharon,

>

> I thought I remembered NT saying that there were trade-offs between

> soaking and sprouting when it comes to nutrients and that sprouting

> increases some natural pesticides? I don't have time to look it up now.

>

>

>

>

>

--

Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will

have plenty to eat.

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

Let me start with I am an absolute rookie when it comes to soaking and

sprouting. So much to learn and so little time...so I am trying to *soak* in as

much info into my brain as I can while reading your info and posts on this list.

But a question comes to mind as I read all this.

I was born and raised in Cuba where we ate rice and beans every single day,

sometimes more than once per day, all varieties except soy. My grandmother and

great grandmother lived to 105. My parents friends, many are still alive in

their 80's and 90's enjoying good health. Of course, we had many good whole

foods growing up and I was never exposed to even a piece of candy or pop until I

came to the US. We had raw eggs, organic fresh fruits and veggies, raw milk,

grass fed beef and so on. So rice and beans are by no means the only thing we

ate.

I still make beans and have begun to soak them in dairy kefir whey or something

fermented for 24-48 hours, thinking this is an improvement over what I had been

doing. I am in good healthy and the beans never give me or my family a bit of

digestive problems. In your opinion, are we missing out on something or doing

something detrimental to our health? How have all the Latin American cultures

done fine on rice and beans for generations? And lastly, we always have used the

pressure cooker, does anyone know if this is an acceptable method of cooking

beans or is there a better, more optimal way?

Thanks,

Millie

[Guest guest]

--- <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> > I thought I remembered NT saying that there were trade-offs

> > between soaking and sprouting when it comes to nutrients and that

> > sprouting increases some natural pesticides? I don't have time to

> > look it up now.

>

--- Sharon son <skericson@...> wrote:

> I, for one, wish Fallon and Company would look more seriously at the

> nutritional benefits of germinated food items, as thoroughly as food

> scientists outside U.S. borders have reviewed them. It's the one

> last " real " food item Fallon & Enig have ignored, and personally, I

> find it irritating and irresponsible. *sigh* Okay, that's probably

> too strong, so let's just say perturbing - as perturbing as it would

> be if they were talking about " toxins " in raw milk, ignoring all the

> other aspects of beneficial bacteria which is more than capable of

> fighting off the bad guys. Well, from what I see of germinated

> seeds/grains/legumes, same is true for them - they're more than able

> to produce enough defensive elements in order to hold their own in

> the nutrition, healthy-food world against toxins, becoming

> " powerhouses of nutrition " - a term often used to describe

> them when I review food science journals......

Sharon, it looks like I must of read about sprouting increasing

natural pesticide somewhere besides NT. There's a section entitled

" Sprouted Grains, Nuts, and Seeds " beginning on page 112 of NT. It

sounds pretty favorable to me, so I'm not sure why you're so

disappointed. It's not like it was left out of the book. NT does

advise against eating raw sprouts because they " contain irritating

substances that keep animals from eating the tender shoots " and " these

substances are neutralized by cooking " . NT recommends eating them

" lightly steamed or added to soups and casseroles " . The only sprout

they don't recommend is alfalfa because " tests have shown that alfalfa

sprouts inhibit the immune system and can contribute to arthritis and

lupus " . But there is no reference on this claim. They also mention

the canavanine in alfalfa sprouts. NT doesn't cover it, but I would

be leery of sprouted soy as well, as sprouting doesn't get rid of the

phytoestrogens, although they are diminished:

/message/82030

My take on sprouts is that if they were such a wonderous food, why

were there no healthy native groups that ate large quantities of them?

I view them mainly as a supplemental food and not as a primary food

that Weston Price found to be so necessary for good health.

From NAPD Chapter 16:

" One of the serious human deficiencies is the inability to synthesize

certain of the activators which include the known vitamins. This makes

necessary the reinforcement of the nutrition with definite amounts of

special foods to supply these organic catalysts, especially the

fat-soluble activators, including the known vitamins, which are

particularly difficult to provide in adequate quantities. I have shown

that the primitive races studied were dependent upon one of three

sources for some of these fat-soluble factors, namely, sea foods,

organs of animals or dairy products. These are all of animal origin. "

[Guest guest]

On 1/2/08, <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> I thought I remembered NT saying that there were trade-offs between

> soaking and sprouting when it comes to nutrients and that sprouting

> increases some natural pesticides? I don't have time to look it up now.

As a general principle, plants are highly protective of rapidly

growing parts. They put very few toxins in potato flesh, but when

they start sprouting, they get loaded with solanine. The goitrogens

in crucifers in the leaves (an organ of photosynthesis and growth)

decrease by a factor of 5 in kale, for example, as it goes from young

to mature. Broccoli sprouts contains 10-100 times the goitrogen

content as broccoli itself. I don't know if all sprouts are high in

such toxins, but as a general principle, if the plant produces some

toxin, it's much higher in the sprout.

There is a school of thought that advocates a principle of hormesis,

where small amounts of toxins are considered to benefit the body. So

these things might be healthful in moderation (and it might well

depend on the type of toxin), but harmful as a staple.

Chris