Re: Question about B12 and stomach acid

[Guest guest]

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:44 PM, crayfishfeed <crayfishfeed@...>

wrote:

> This is probably a stupid question but I have heard/read about the

> importance of stomach acid and B12 absorption ever since I met

> Idol at the 2005 conference where he discussed it's importance with me

> (first conversation we ever had) Anyways, what I don't understand is

> if you are taking a sublingual form of b12 where it's absorbed into

> the bloodstream via absorption under the tongue than why is stomach

> acid important to this process? I know I am missing something obvious.

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hrm... My gmail must be acting up.

All food B12 is taken orally, so stomach acid is important. B12 supplements

that are taken sublingually are an exception to the " rule " .

-Lana

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...>

wrote:

>

>

> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:44 PM, crayfishfeed <crayfishfeed@...>

> wrote:

>

> > This is probably a stupid question but I have heard/read about the

> > importance of stomach acid and B12 absorption ever since I met

> > Idol at the 2005 conference where he discussed it's importance with me

> > (first conversation we ever had) Anyways, what I don't understand is

> > if you are taking a sublingual form of b12 where it's absorbed into

> > the bloodstream via absorption under the tongue than why is stomach

> > acid important to this process? I know I am missing something obvious.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Lana,

> All food B12 is taken orally, so stomach acid is important. B12 supplements

> that are taken sublingually are an exception to the " rule " .

Are you sure? Is it verified that sublingual absorption is high, or

is most of the B12 in the sublingual supplement dissolving and passing

through the digestive tract?

Stomach acidity per se is not important to supplemental B12 absorption

-- it is required to separate B12 from food proteins. However, in

autoimmune-mediated deficiency of stomach acidity, intrinsic factor

production is also decreased, which is needed to absorb all forms of

B12 that pass through the intestinal tract.

That said, supplemental B12 is usually in doses that far exceed the IF

capacity, so you are really absorbing about 1% of what is left over

(i.e. most of the supplement) by passive diffusion. High doses can

make up for deficiency of stomach acidity and IF.

Chris

[Guest guest]

So from what you know about it, it sounds like you are saying

sublingually it doesn't matter about the stomach acidity?

>

> Lana,

>

> > All food B12 is taken orally, so stomach acid is important. B12

supplements

> > that are taken sublingually are an exception to the " rule " .

>

> Are you sure? Is it verified that sublingual absorption is high, or

> is most of the B12 in the sublingual supplement dissolving and passing

> through the digestive tract?

>

> Stomach acidity per se is not important to supplemental B12 absorption

> -- it is required to separate B12 from food proteins. However, in

> autoimmune-mediated deficiency of stomach acidity, intrinsic factor

> production is also decreased, which is needed to absorb all forms of

> B12 that pass through the intestinal tract.

>

> That said, supplemental B12 is usually in doses that far exceed the IF

> capacity, so you are really absorbing about 1% of what is left over

> (i.e. most of the supplement) by passive diffusion. High doses can

> make up for deficiency of stomach acidity and IF.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Hey -

> This is probably a stupid question but I have heard/read about the

> importance of stomach acid and B12 absorption ever since I met

> Idol at the 2005 conference where he discussed it's importance with me

> (first conversation we ever had) Anyways, what I don't understand is

> if you are taking a sublingual form of b12 where it's absorbed into

> the bloodstream via absorption under the tongue than why is stomach

> acid important to this process? I know I am missing something obvious.

Actually, sublingual absorption of B12 is very poor -- B12 is a very

large molecule. It provides minimal extra absorption than simply

swallowing it would. As for the rest, what said. In cases of

damage to the parietal cells (autoimmune or otherwise) which impairs

production of stomach acid, production of intrinsic factor is also

generally (or always?) impaired. Taking free B12 will eliminate the

need for stomach acid to liberate B12 from food in order to absorb

enough B12 (though stomach acid will still be necessary for proper

digestion and absorption of food!) and taking enough B12 will overcome

any deficiencies in intrinsic factor production because about 1% of

free B12 is absorbed across the intestinal lining by passive diffusion

despite the molecule's large size.

It might be best to take supplemental B12 between meals in such cases,

though. That would increase the concentration and thus probably the

absorption, and it would also reduce the fraction of B12 broken down

by digestion.

-

[Guest guest]

Regarding the oral b-12 and stomach acidity, my friend's son, who is

experiencing issues with heavy metal toxicity as a result of vaccinations,

has methylation issues with B-12. The only way that he can absorb it is with

a b-12 shot. A doctor in Rhinebeck, NY who has had excellent results with

autistic children, tested his blood levels and found them to be dangerously

low. His parents notice a definite improvement in his mood and behavior

right before and after his shot. This is a child who has been eating a

NT/WAPF diet for the last few years. Perhaps if he took massive doses of

b-12 he might absorb a certain amount, but apparently not enough to overcome

his deficiency.

Also, I've read that antacids can lead to b-12 deficiencies because of the

reduction in stomach acid.I believe I saw this on Pubmed.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

How do you get free B12? I'm upset that I just ordered 3 bottles of

sublingual.

My friend just got some liquid B complex (including B12) from Target.

Can't find my note that says exactly what's in it.

Would liquid be best? What brand is best?

Thanks

On May 8, 2008, at 7:15 AM, Idol wrote:

> Taking free B12 will eliminate the

> need for stomach acid to liberate B12 from food in order to absorb

> enough B12

Parashis

artpages@...

portfolio pages:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know how to get the body to produce more intrinsic factor.

That Dr. who wrote that book on stomach acidity says the body

pulls the b12 into the small intestine via intrinsic factor FIRST.

But are u saying passive diffusion can pull some in without it?

>

> Hey -

>

> > This is probably a stupid question but I have heard/read about the

> > importance of stomach acid and B12 absorption ever since I met

> > Idol at the 2005 conference where he discussed it's importance with me

> > (first conversation we ever had) Anyways, what I don't understand is

> > if you are taking a sublingual form of b12 where it's absorbed into

> > the bloodstream via absorption under the tongue than why is stomach

> > acid important to this process? I know I am missing something obvious.

>

> Actually, sublingual absorption of B12 is very poor -- B12 is a very

> large molecule. It provides minimal extra absorption than simply

> swallowing it would. As for the rest, what said. In cases of

> damage to the parietal cells (autoimmune or otherwise) which impairs

> production of stomach acid, production of intrinsic factor is also

> generally (or always?) impaired. Taking free B12 will eliminate the

> need for stomach acid to liberate B12 from food in order to absorb

> enough B12 (though stomach acid will still be necessary for proper

> digestion and absorption of food!) and taking enough B12 will overcome

> any deficiencies in intrinsic factor production because about 1% of

> free B12 is absorbed across the intestinal lining by passive diffusion

> despite the molecule's large size.

>

> It might be best to take supplemental B12 between meals in such cases,

> though. That would increase the concentration and thus probably the

> absorption, and it would also reduce the fraction of B12 broken down

> by digestion.

>

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

> How do you get free B12? I'm upset that I just ordered 3 bottles of

> sublingual.

By " free " I meant " not bound to food " , that's all, so your sublingual

certainly qualifies.

> My friend just got some liquid B complex (including B12) from Target.

> Can't find my note that says exactly what's in it.

It's probably really bad.

> Would liquid be best? What brand is best?

I don't know; awhile ago I bought some bulk pure methylcobalamin from

a pharmaceutical supply company. Basically you want either

methylcobalamin or the other coenzyme form, which is most often

referred to as dibencozide in the supplement world. Look for

something with the smallest amount of fillers and binders,

particularly anything that will inhibit breakdown of the supplement

and therefore absorption of the B12.

-

[Guest guest]

--- Idol <paul.idol@...> wrote:

> In cases of damage to the parietal cells (autoimmune or otherwise)

> which impairs production of stomach acid, production of intrinsic

> factor is also generally (or always?) impaired.

, how would someone tell if they were not getting enough B12? Are

blood levels a reliable indicator?

[Guest guest]

Back when I was reading about it (at least 2 years ago) it seemed that the

absorption rate was high - but since I can't find any notes on it and others

seem to think sublingual absorption is low I'm just going to say I'm not

sure. If I come across some notes or the info again at some future point,

I'll be sure to share.

-Lana

> Are you sure? Is it verified that sublingual absorption is high, or

> is most of the B12 in the sublingual supplement dissolving and passing

> through the digestive tract?

>

[Guest guest]

I have heard good things about this brand

http://spinelife.stores..net/intr.html

>

> > Taking free B12 will eliminate the

> > need for stomach acid to liberate B12 from food in order to absorb

> > enough B12

>

> Parashis

> artpages@...

>

> portfolio pages:

> http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/

>

> http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

>

[Guest guest]

--- In , Idol <paul.idol@...>

wrote:

<<By " free " I meant " not bound to food " , that's all, so your sublingual

certainly qualifies.>>

I am a new member, and am curious why, on a list of people who are

eating naturally and traditonally, any of you feel the need of extra

B12? Surely you could getthisd more effectively from your food?

regards from edella