Re: healthy bodyfat for men

[Guest guest]

> I'm not sure the point of low-carbing, unless it is followed by a

> carb-loading meal? I thought muscularity is increased by carbs

> because they replete glycogen stores. So low-carbing to lose fat then

> enough carbs to replete glycogen stores? Not that it matters to me,

> since I'm not trying to get ripped abs for an event, but just

> considering whether mine should be a bit more ripped in general.

That is the general theory. The old school bodybuilders were very much

into low carbing, and then briefly adding carbs right before a

contest. Their idea was to come into a contest at their heaviest,

unlike today where people bulk up and then strip down. The OG's looked

much healthier, and it is difficult to tell among modern professional

bodybuilders what is real and what isn't because of the widespread use

of steroids.

> I disagree that it is ALL about losing bodyfat. Maybe that's true of

> *whether* you see definition, but what you see once that definition is

> there is dependent on your muscular make up.

That makes sense otherwise there would be no need to workout that area.

> I guess I have a six-pack already, but it isn't as ripped as the guys

> on the cover of men's fitness magazines, nor the guys playing

> volleyball on Top Gun (it was on last night).

The thing is you have no idea how much training they did to look like

that for the movie. On the other hand, I love beach volleyball, and

there are lots of folks with regular jobs (i.e they can't devote a

humongous time to training) who have some pretty nice looking abs.

> I'm mostly into training to be healthy, but looking good is kind of a

> nice bonus so I might as well take advantage of it. I figure if I

> have some ab definition without an intense workout regimen, I should

> be able to get a decently ripped 8-pack with one. Right now I'm

> reconstructing most of my former workout, centered around the

> powerlifter big three, focusing on 1-5 rep ranges for emphasis on

> strength, and various additional exercises, mostly free weights. In

> between workout days I just started doing interval training on the

> eliptical for 40 minutes, which burns over 700 calories and supposedly

> boosts metabolism long-term, like the weightlifting does.

Interval training is all the rage now, and people like to point to the

physique of sprinters as an example of what interval training coupled

with weights will do for you. I'm less than convinced. My guess is

most folks saying that have never been track athletes or coaches,

because they do LOTS of low intensity stuff in addition to the high

intensity training. I'm not dissing interval training. I vastly prefer

it over aerobics (which I think is highly overrated in many ways),

which I can't stand unless I'm playing a sport (which combines both

depending on the sport) but I think in some ways it is being over

hyped.

> Water fasting regularly sounds infeasible to me but I could do fasting

> on kefired coconut water maybe.

I never really noticed the difference between coconut water and water

fasting, they both are/were difficult for me in the early stages of a

longer fast :-)

However I see the wisdom of the absolute fast during the first week of

Lent. Once you get through that the remaining fast seems, relatively

speaking, like a breeze.

> However, I don't really want to turn

> fasting into a vanity thing, and having a ripped abs is pretty much

> sheer vanity.

I have advised folks who are sick or overweight going into Lent to

look at as a way to more deeply enter the fast, focusing on what is

most important while nonetheless getting the physical benefits of more

intense (i.e liquid) fasting. Not really much different than working

out to be healthy but realizing you will get some " looking good "

benefits as well or just getting well in general if you are sick

(plus, I see many benefits to IF that have nothing nothing to do with

nice abs, even if only done one day a week) The time this year during

Lent when I was eating (which ranged from vegan meals to vitamix

juices during the early stages) versus the liquid and absolute

portions of the fast (the first week and the last month) was like

night and day, spiritually speaking, especially during Holy Week.

> I am practicing exercising on an empty stomach though

> (3 hours since eating I try to do) to enhance the fasting part of the

> fasting-feeding cycle.

I don't think there is anything quite like the exhilaration, exercise

wise, that comes from exercising deep into a fast, whether it is IF or

a longer term fast.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

> I guess I have a six-pack already, but it isn't as ripped as the

guys

> on the cover of men's fitness magazines,

My favorite article on what fitness models do to " look like that " on

magazine covers, is from Krista -Dixon. (Ignore the womens'

polemics and see the section " even fitness models don't look like

fitness models. " ) She's talking about women so for guys it's probably

different but still:

" Why Don't You Look Like a Fitness Model "

http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displayarticle.php?aid=38

Another thing about magazine images which I haven't seen expressed

anywhere else, is they project residual muscular tension which is not

particularly healthful to walk around with ALL the time.

From Mushtaq Ali's blog (martial artist and philospher) talking about

fitness gurus X and Y:

" If Batman Existed He'd Train Like This "

http://tracelesswarrior.blogspot.com/2006/12/if-batman-existed-hed-

train-like-this.html

" If one were to look at the real difference between X and Y,

physically speaking, one thing stands out to me. Because of the

training philosophy that Y uses, he tends to carry a good deal of

residual muscular tension. This is because of his use of pressurising

and irradiation of tension to produce force. That extra tension can

fool the uninformed into thinking a person has a better physique than

is actually the case.

X , on the other hand has very little residual muscular tension when

at rest. This gives the appearance of long smooth muscles rather than

the striations of hypertension. What has happened I think is that we

no longer really understand how to look at some one's body and see it

for what it is. I suspect it is because we have been overly affected

by the image of the " body builder " .

[Guest guest]

Hi,

When I got certified as an aerobics instructor we were told to make a goal of

body fat analyzed as close to 0 as possible(no relation to the serum body fat

levels) yet most of my clients ran 30+ so I would say you are in good shape.

Unfortunately my body fat currently runs around 20, as I have not kept up the

aerobic classes in recent years.

Best regards, Jim

Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

A general reply to the thread thus far:

It seems obvious to me and probably everyone else here that

deliberately dehydrating is stupid, or at least not very healthy.

I'm not sure the point of low-carbing, unless it is followed by a

carb-loading meal? I thought muscularity is increased by carbs

because they replete glycogen stores. So low-carbing to lose fat then

enough carbs to replete glycogen stores? Not that it matters to me,

since I'm not trying to get ripped abs for an event, but just

considering whether mine should be a bit more ripped in general.

I agree about the bodyfat variance. Potential inaccuracies aside,

when I used to work out at the gym a couple years ago, the Tibia scale

or whatever it was called would usually say I had around 12% bodyfat,

but I still had a clearly defined six-pack, whereas most articles I've

read say you need under 10% (sometimes they cap it even lower).

I disagree that it is ALL about losing bodyfat. Maybe that's true of

*whether* you see definition, but what you see once that definition is

there is dependent on your muscular make up.

I guess I have a six-pack already, but it isn't as ripped as the guys

on the cover of men's fitness magazines, nor the guys playing

volleyball on Top Gun (it was on last night). If I contract all my

muscles, I have a pretty well-defined 8-pack and have nice definition

in my obliques as well as that part where the abs meet the waste. If I

relax all my muscles, my six-pack definition is still visible, but it

is somewhat faint. If I'm breathing well, and letting my abdomen

expand, I look more pregnant than ripped but there is still a little

definition there.

I just joined a gym for the first time in the last couple years. I'd

only been working out my eyes with the computer monitor and my butt

with the chair for the most part so had lost most of the weight I

gained working out before (high 130s or low 140s), but over the course

of this year I got back into kettlebells and got myself up to 150-154

or so. I just joined a gym last week so I'm hoping to put on another

10 pounds of muscle and maybe lose some fat.

I'm mostly into training to be healthy, but looking good is kind of a

nice bonus so I might as well take advantage of it. I figure if I

have some ab definition without an intense workout regimen, I should

be able to get a decently ripped 8-pack with one. Right now I'm

reconstructing most of my former workout, centered around the

powerlifter big three, focusing on 1-5 rep ranges for emphasis on

strength, and various additional exercises, mostly free weights. In

between workout days I just started doing interval training on the

eliptical for 40 minutes, which burns over 700 calories and supposedly

boosts metabolism long-term, like the weightlifting does.

Water fasting regularly sounds infeasible to me but I could do fasting

on kefired coconut water maybe. However, I don't really want to turn

fasting into a vanity thing, and having a ripped abs is pretty much

sheer vanity. I am practicing exercising on an empty stomach though

(3 hours since eating I try to do) to enhance the fasting part of the

fasting-feeding cycle.

Chris

Well done is better than well said..., Jim Igo

[Guest guest]

--- Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...>

<<Right now I'm

reconstructing most of my former workout, centered

around the

powerlifter big three, focusing on 1-5 rep ranges for

emphasis on

strength,>>

Good choice of exercises (deadlift, squat and bench

press). Be sure to do your squats ass-to-the grass and

do some supplementary exercises to strengthen your

rotator cuff, if you are going to do the bench press.

Believe it or not, going deep on squats is safer than

going to parallel.

I would say that adding chin-ups and power cleans

every now and then would be good too. Anyway, if you

are going to do those three (the powerlifting three),

a good workout is Bill Starr's 5 X 5 (Here's a link

where you can get an explanation and even an Excel

Spreadsheet to program your workouts):

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

5 reps gives you pretty much the best of both worlds

strength + aesthetics.

Good luck!

-

Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

-WB Yeats

[Guest guest]

-

> and

> do some supplementary exercises to strengthen your

> rotator cuff

Any suggestions?

-

[Guest guest]

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 2:20 PM, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

>> Water fasting regularly sounds infeasible to me but I could do fasting

>> on kefired coconut water maybe.

>

> I never really noticed the difference between coconut water and water

> fasting, they both are/were difficult for me in the early stages of a

> longer fast :-)

I should say I never strictly water fast for physical reasons. It is

not necessary to be that aggressive to get the physical benefits of

fasting. But I have fasted on water and coconut water, which I find

difficult early on during a longer fast (not on a 16-24 hour fast). My

usual routine is the lemon water approach prescribed by Carey Reams.

That is a breeze, even for longer periods of time.

By the way, there is a whole corner of the web these days dedicated to

working out, building muscle and intermittent fasting.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

Rotary moves with the shoulders are a good recovery from all that

lifting in one plane.

I like Mike Mahler's writeup on clubbells for shoulder conditioning...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler42.htm

Connie

--- In , Idol <paul.idol@...>

wrote:

>

> -

>

> > and

> > do some supplementary exercises to strengthen your

> > rotator cuff

>

> Any suggestions?

>

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

> Good choice of exercises (deadlift, squat and bench

> press). Be sure to do your squats ass-to-the grass and

> do some supplementary exercises to strengthen your

> rotator cuff, if you are going to do the bench press.

I still don't understand the point of the bench press.

> Believe it or not, going deep on squats is safer than

> going to parallel.

Only way to go, and the results are better as well.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

,

>> and

>> do some supplementary exercises to strengthen your

>> rotator cuff

>

> Any suggestions?

Surprisingly, I found the shoulder horn very helpful.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

Connie,

> Rotary moves with the shoulders are a good recovery from all that

> lifting in one plane.

>

> I like Mike Mahler's writeup on clubbells for shoulder conditioning...

>

> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler42.htm

He seems to be walking around with a lot of residual muscular tension :-)

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

--- Idol <paul.idol@...> wrote:

> > and

> > do some supplementary exercises to strengthen your

> > rotator cuff

>

> Any suggestions?

This article has exercises and explanations for

rotator cuff exercises and is damn good:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459577

[Guest guest]

Hi Connie,

Thanks for the interesting articles.

> My favorite article on what fitness models do to " look like that " on

> magazine covers, is from Krista -Dixon. (Ignore the womens'

> polemics and see the section " even fitness models don't look like

> fitness models. " ) She's talking about women so for guys it's probably

> different but still:

>

> " Why Don't You Look Like a Fitness Model "

> http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displayarticle.php?aid=38

Those are very good points, but nevertheless, despite whatever tricks

these guys do to photo best, they still clearly have lower bodyfat

than I do (may be a good or bad thing). And of course, many of them

probably use hydroxycut and cell tech and all kinds of other expensive

drug/supplements that build a low-fat muscular physique. But let's

take for example Ori Hofmekler, who does it the all-natural way:

http://www.warriordiet.com/images/CFTAbs.jpg

I clearly have more bodyfat than he does.

> Another thing about magazine images which I haven't seen expressed

> anywhere else, is they project residual muscular tension which is not

> particularly healthful to walk around with ALL the time.

>

> From Mushtaq Ali's blog (martial artist and philospher) talking about

> fitness gurus X and Y:

>

> " If Batman Existed He'd Train Like This "

> http://tracelesswarrior.blogspot.com/2006/12/if-batman-existed-hed-

> train-like-this.html>

[snip]

The video of 's workout is pretty awesome, but I don't under

stand Ali's point. I don't know what " residual muscle tension " means,

or what his evidence is that Pavel's workout promotes it.

Chris

[Guest guest]

-

> Surprisingly, I found the shoulder horn very helpful.

Huh, that's interesting. Do you find it useful for should rehab,

though, or just prevention? I definitely need the former, and have

for years.

-

[Guest guest]

--- <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> I still don't understand the point of the bench

> press.

>

Well, they are ok, if you take care of your rotator

cuffs, but I basically don't do them anymore. For one

thing, I mostly do Olympic Lifting and bench presses

cause problems for people doing the Snatch.

I guess I would recommend weighted dips over bench

press, but I am not anti-bench press generally.

Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

-WB Yeats

[Guest guest]

,

> Good choice of exercises (deadlift, squat and bench

> press).

Thanks, and thanks for the comments.

> Be sure to do your squats ass-to-the grass and

> do some supplementary exercises to strengthen your

> rotator cuff, if you are going to do the bench press.

> Believe it or not, going deep on squats is safer than

> going to parallel.

I'll have to pay more attention to how deep I'm going. It's tough

because the mirror is at a distance from the squatting rack here; at

the old gym I went to there was a mirror right in front of it. I

suspect I'm going more like parallel but I might be going a little bit

deeper. I think I actually used to do deep squats.

I'm not sure what rotator cuff exercises are.

> I would say that adding chin-ups and power cleans

> every now and then would be good too.

I'm not sure what power cleans are, but I might do chin-ups, if those

are the ones with the palms forward. My plan is to do bench press, 90

degree bent over row, incline dumbell press, 45 degree bent over row,

wide-gripped chinups (pullups? palms forward), dips, and barbell arm

curls for my upper body workout.

> Anyway, if you

> are going to do those three (the powerlifting three),

> a good workout is Bill Starr's 5 X 5 (Here's a link

> where you can get an explanation and even an Excel

> Spreadsheet to program your workouts):

> http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

> 5 reps gives you pretty much the best of both worlds

> strength + aesthetics.

I've been doing 5x5 for most supplementary exercises, but I had a lot

of success with an 8-5-3-1-1-1-5 program before with the big three so

that's what I'm using for those now. I just need to find my records,

or get a copy of the plan that was at the wall at that gym that I was

following, unless I can somehow find it online. Right now I'm

reconstructing it with guesswork mostly.

> Good luck!

Thanks!

Chris

[Guest guest]

and ,

>> I still don't understand the point of the bench

>> press.

> Well, they are ok, if you take care of your rotator

> cuffs, but I basically don't do them anymore. For one

> thing, I mostly do Olympic Lifting and bench presses

> cause problems for people doing the Snatch.

I think the point is a) it's fun and it gives you " a chest. "

> I guess I would recommend weighted dips over bench

> press, but I am not anti-bench press generally.

Weighted dips are pretty awesome. I always did them as a supplement

back there back befo' and loved 'em.

Chris

[Guest guest]

LOL I think so too.

Connie

>

> Connie,

>

> > Rotary moves with the shoulders are a good recovery from all that

> > lifting in one plane.

> >

> > I like Mike Mahler's writeup on clubbells for shoulder

conditioning...

> >

> > http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler42.htm

>

> He seems to be walking around with a lot of residual muscular

tension :-)

>

>

> --

> I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal

dynamic,

> be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

> Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

> feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in

reality

> gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

> simulated otherwise.

>

> -Anonymous

>

[Guest guest]

> drug/supplements that build a low-fat muscular physique. But let's

> take for example Ori Hofmekler, who does it the all-natural way:

>

> http://www.warriordiet.com/images/CFTAbs.jpg

>

> I clearly have more bodyfat than he does.

Oh okay. I still bet he does special things for photo shoots. I

read " The Warrior Diet " too and, totally random comment and heaven

knows Ori looks better than I do, but didn't you think Ori has a weird

posture? When you see him from the side he has his head forward all the

time. If that is a result of his training I wouldn't want that part of

it.

Connie

[Guest guest]

I really like some of the work outs on T-nation especially those of

Poliquin and Ian King. Poliquin's calf workout on

T-nation is amazing and my calfs put on noticeable size, other people

even noticed and we all know how hard it is to grow calfs. I have a

lot of Ian Kings books and Get Buffed is awesome. It changed my body

the most drastically in the shortest amount of time b/c of the

priority training that he emphasized for weaknesses and his emphasis

on balancing push/pull exercises. I also had two surgeries on my knee

and many physical therapists just don't know how to train to put size

on a person, I have even had physical therapists consult me for help

with that. It wasn't until I met my mentor who trained extensively

under King and Poliquin that I started doing squats below parallel and

what a difference it made in my quads and my overall strength.

, Ian King also has a short video on control drills that really

helped me with my rotator cuff since I tore it. After learning the

control drills it never bothered me again during my workouts.

>

> ,

>

> > Good choice of exercises (deadlift, squat and bench

> > press).

>

> Thanks, and thanks for the comments.

>

> > Be sure to do your squats ass-to-the grass and

> > do some supplementary exercises to strengthen your

> > rotator cuff, if you are going to do the bench press.

> > Believe it or not, going deep on squats is safer than

> > going to parallel.

>

> I'll have to pay more attention to how deep I'm going. It's tough

> because the mirror is at a distance from the squatting rack here; at

> the old gym I went to there was a mirror right in front of it. I

> suspect I'm going more like parallel but I might be going a little bit

> deeper. I think I actually used to do deep squats.

>

> I'm not sure what rotator cuff exercises are.

>

> > I would say that adding chin-ups and power cleans

> > every now and then would be good too.

>

> I'm not sure what power cleans are, but I might do chin-ups, if those

> are the ones with the palms forward. My plan is to do bench press, 90

> degree bent over row, incline dumbell press, 45 degree bent over row,

> wide-gripped chinups (pullups? palms forward), dips, and barbell arm

> curls for my upper body workout.

>

> > Anyway, if you

> > are going to do those three (the powerlifting three),

> > a good workout is Bill Starr's 5 X 5 (Here's a link

> > where you can get an explanation and even an Excel

> > Spreadsheet to program your workouts):

> > http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

>

> > 5 reps gives you pretty much the best of both worlds

> > strength + aesthetics.

>

> I've been doing 5x5 for most supplementary exercises, but I had a lot

> of success with an 8-5-3-1-1-1-5 program before with the big three so

> that's what I'm using for those now. I just need to find my records,

> or get a copy of the plan that was at the wall at that gym that I was

> following, unless I can somehow find it online. Right now I'm

> reconstructing it with guesswork mostly.

>

> > Good luck!

>

> Thanks!

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

> The video of 's workout is pretty awesome, but I don't under

> stand Ali's point. I don't know what " residual muscle tension " means,

> or what his evidence is that Pavel's workout promotes it.

>

> Chris

>

Residual muscular tension is the level your muscles have when you think

you're at rest. If you had none you'd collapse in a heap. If you had

too much you'd be like a tennis raquet wired too tight. The theory goes

that residual muscle tension is to muscle power like the rubber band in

a rubber band gun - if you walk around with the band partly stretched

all the time, when you want to shoot you won't get as much power from

it as you would if it was allowed to rest in between shots. Or

something.

Here's a little article on it I found while googling. It's from the

ergonomic world but the principles are the same as in

anatomy/physiology.

http://www.somatics.com/ergonomics.htm

As for Pavel's workouts promoting it, I think at the time Ali was

writing, Pavel's workouts were using high tension protocols and no talk

about other protocols to compensate for the high tension. If you don't

find a way to " bleed off " high tension it sticks around and I bet that

is what Ali is alluding to.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Not everyone gets the six pack abs, no matter how hard they work out. The way

I understand it is that it only applys to certain body types.

Best regards, Jim

cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...> wrote:

> drug/supplements that build a low-fat muscular physique. But let's

> take for example Ori Hofmekler, who does it the all-natural way:

>

> http://www.warriordiet.com/images/CFTAbs.jpg

>

> I clearly have more bodyfat than he does.

Oh okay. I still bet he does special things for photo shoots. I

read " The Warrior Diet " too and, totally random comment and heaven

knows Ori looks better than I do, but didn't you think Ori has a weird

posture? When you see him from the side he has his head forward all the

time. If that is a result of his training I wouldn't want that part of

it.

Connie

Well done is better than well said..., Jim Igo

[Guest guest]

> Those are very good points, but nevertheless, despite whatever tricks

> these guys do to photo best, they still clearly have lower bodyfat

> than I do (may be a good or bad thing). And of course, many of them

> probably use hydroxycut and cell tech and all kinds of other expensive

> drug/supplements that build a low-fat muscular physique. But let's

> take for example Ori Hofmekler, who does it the all-natural way:

>

> http://www.warriordiet.com/images/CFTAbs.jpg

>

> I clearly have more bodyfat than he does.

Yes but Ori uses a form of intermittent fasting :-)

Interestingly, among bloggers anyway, it seems to be the least popular

way of doing it.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

,

>> Surprisingly, I found the shoulder horn very helpful.

>

> Huh, that's interesting. Do you find it useful for should rehab,

> though, or just prevention? I definitely need the former, and have

> for years.

Based on a former powerlifter's testimonial, who had torn up his

shoulders from years of lifting, I started using it for rehab on one

shoulder about the time I started Olympic Lifting, and it worked

wonders for me on both shoulders. YMMV though.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

,

>> I still don't understand the point of the bench

>> press.

>>

>

> Well, they are ok, if you take care of your rotator

> cuffs, but I basically don't do them anymore. For one

> thing, I mostly do Olympic Lifting and bench presses

> cause problems for people doing the Snatch.

Right, that was one reason I gave up heavy benching. The other reason

is that without some serious alteration to the basic bench it only

made my shoulders bigger. So now I use an altered form where I can't

handle very much weight but it sure fills my chest out nicely.

> I guess I would recommend weighted dips over bench

> press, but I am not anti-bench press generally.

Obviously I'm not anti-bench (as I do like the aesthetics) but

functionally speaking I never understood its usefulness.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

> I'll have to pay more attention to how deep I'm going. It's tough

> because the mirror is at a distance from the squatting rack here; at

> the old gym I went to there was a mirror right in front of it. I

> suspect I'm going more like parallel but I might be going a little bit

> deeper. I think I actually used to do deep squats.

Just go all the way down, till your butt is just above the ground. It

will be obvious even without a mirror because you won't be able to go

any further. The main thing is to make sure your back is angled

properly which shouldn't be a problem if you have good flexibility in

bith your back and calves.

> I'm not sure what power cleans are, but I might do chin-ups, if those

> are the ones with the palms forward. My plan is to do bench press, 90

> degree bent over row, incline dumbell press, 45 degree bent over row,

> wide-gripped chinups (pullups? palms forward), dips, and barbell arm

> curls for my upper body workout.

People still do rows and curls? :-)

I guess I really don't like that stuff anymore <g>

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous