Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Silica. It is helping me! Katy Brezger Be a Blessing, Find ways to be someone's Santa Claus all year 'round. May you be so richly blessed that you will bless others with what overflows from your cup. " If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in a sorry state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny. " ~ Jefferson~ Arthritis/bone pain Hi am a student, been doing well with curing self of many serious illnesses- success with eyesight (carnosisne and beta carotene) but arthritis suddenly worse - I am taking around 30 supps- pH seems normal but am now needing a wheelchair- any ideas? CJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 On 1/7/08, C.G <johnsoncaro@...> wrote: > am a student, been doing well with curing self of many serious > illnesses- success with eyesight (carnosisne and beta carotene) but > arthritis suddenly worse - I am taking around 30 supps- pH seems > normal but am now needing a wheelchair- any ideas? How much beta-carotene are you using (preferably a figure either in milligrams or RAE)? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Hi (and thanks for all helpful replies) Carnosine 500mg x 3 daily (6 months) with Beta Carotene, 15 mg x 4 daily (*from *www.lef.org) - am a little woman though so a big guy may need more - also taking daily multi-vit with minerals and heaps of immune boosting supplements eg blueberries daily - I studied longevity foods and this along with the above did bring my sight back to not needing prescription glasses, just strength 1 readers and still improving - it is weird about the bone pain - Regards CJ On 08/01/2008, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote: > > On 1/7/08, C.G <johnsoncaro@... <johnsoncaro%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > am a student, been doing well with curing self of many serious > > illnesses- success with eyesight (carnosisne and beta carotene) but > > arthritis suddenly worse - I am taking around 30 supps- pH seems > > normal but am now needing a wheelchair- any ideas? > > How much beta-carotene are you using (preferably a figure either in > milligrams or RAE)? > > Chris > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 On 1/8/08, C.G <johnsoncaro@...> wrote: > Carnosine 500mg x 3 daily (6 months) with Beta Carotene, 15 mg x 4 daily > (*from > *www.lef.org) - am a little woman though so a big guy may need more - also > taking daily multi-vit with minerals and heaps of immune boosting > supplements eg blueberries daily - I studied longevity foods and this along > with the above did bring my sight back to not needing prescription glasses, > just strength 1 readers and still improving - it is weird about the bone > pain - I would *immediately* get OFF the beta-carotene. This amount of beta-carotene is aboslutely not safe whatsoever. I suggest using preformed vitamin A, preferably from cod liver oil and liver if possible with a generous supply of vitamin D and K2 to match, and limiting beta-carotene supplementation to 6 milligrams, which is ten times less than you are using. Animal studies and human studies show that beta-carotene at the level of 6 mg protects agianst lung cancer but it causes lung cancer at the level of 30 mg, let alone 60 mg, and does so by inducing the destruction of activated vitamin A within the cell via oxidative stress and upregulation of the enzymes that degrade it. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 http://www.drlam.com/book/chapter3.cfm Many studies have shown that people with high levels of beta carotene in their diet not only have a less likely chance of developing cancer, especially that of lung, but also the rest of the GI tract like throat, esophagus, and mouth. *It takes at least 12 years of high doses of beta-carotene to thwart the onset of cancer of the lung.* A* Harvard Study of male physicians taking 50 mg supplements of beta carotene every other day for 6 years show that the controlled group had only half the number of fatal heart attacks and strokes compared to the general population.* Another Harvard study of 90,000 female nurses show that those eating the most beta carotene (more that 11,000 I.U. per day) had a 22% lower risk of heart disease than those getting less than 3,800 I.U. per day.* In addition, the study showed that those women who ate at least 5 carrots a week were 68% less likely to have strokes compared to the normal group. Eating a high volume of spinach also cut the stroke risk by 40 % (spinach contains a lot of beta-carotene).* ** On 08/01/2008, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote: > > On 1/8/08, C.G <johnsoncaro@... <johnsoncaro%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > Carnosine 500mg x 3 daily (6 months) with Beta Carotene, 15 mg x 4 daily > > (*from > > *www.lef.org) - am a little woman though so a big guy may need more - > also > > taking daily multi-vit with minerals and heaps of immune boosting > > supplements eg blueberries daily - I studied longevity foods and this > along > > with the above did bring my sight back to not needing prescription > glasses, > > just strength 1 readers and still improving - it is weird about the bone > > pain - > > I would *immediately* get OFF the beta-carotene. This amount of > beta-carotene is aboslutely not safe whatsoever. I suggest using > preformed vitamin A, preferably from cod liver oil and liver if > possible with a generous supply of vitamin D and K2 to match, and > limiting beta-carotene supplementation to 6 milligrams, which is ten > times less than you are using. > > Animal studies and human studies show that beta-carotene at the level > of 6 mg protects agianst lung cancer but it causes lung cancer at the > level of 30 mg, let alone 60 mg, and does so by inducing the > destruction of activated vitamin A within the cell via oxidative > stress and upregulation of the enzymes that degrade it. > > Chris > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Blueberries are great, they are a superfood, Katy Brezger http://to-reverse-diabetes.blogspot.com/ Be a Blessing, Find ways to be someone's Santa Claus all year 'round. May you be so richly blessed that you will bless others with what overflows from your cup. " If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in a sorry state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny. " ~ Jefferson~ Re: Arthritis/bone pain Hi (and thanks for all helpful replies) Carnosine 500mg x 3 daily (6 months) with Beta Carotene, 15 mg x 4 daily (*from *www.lef.org) - am a little woman though so a big guy may need more - also taking daily multi-vit with minerals and heaps of immune boosting supplements eg blueberries daily - I studied longevity foods and this along with the above did bring my sight back to not needing prescription glasses, just strength 1 readers and still improving - it is weird about the bone pain - Regards CJ On 08/01/2008, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote: > > On 1/7/08, C.G <johnsoncaro@... <johnsoncaro%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > am a student, been doing well with curing self of many serious > > illnesses- success with eyesight (carnosisne and beta carotene) but > > arthritis suddenly worse - I am taking around 30 supps- pH seems > > normal but am now needing a wheelchair- any ideas? > > How much beta-carotene are you using (preferably a figure either in > milligrams or RAE)? > > Chris > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 do not take supplements of Beta-Carotene. eat healthy locally grown raw green veggies. But if you must take a Vit A supplement try Swanson's vitamins they are extremely reasonable and made in the US. also cod liver oil is a great source of Vit A, just don't take too much, but the Vit D in there will help heal joint/muscle and bone pain. Katy Brezger http://to-reverse-diabetes.blogspot.com/ Be a Blessing, Find ways to be someone's Santa Claus all year 'round. May you be so richly blessed that you will bless others with what overflows from your cup. " If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in a sorry state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny. " ~ Jefferson~ Re: Arthritis/bone pain On 1/7/08, C.G <johnsoncaro@...> wrote: > am a student, been doing well with curing self of many serious > illnesses- success with eyesight (carnosisne and beta carotene) but > arthritis suddenly worse - I am taking around 30 supps- pH seems > normal but am now needing a wheelchair- any ideas? How much beta-carotene are you using (preferably a figure either in milligrams or RAE)? Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 On 1/8/08, C.G <johnsoncaro@...> wrote: > Many studies have shown that people with high levels of beta carotene in > their diet not only have a less likely chance of developing cancer, > especially that of lung, but also the rest of the GI tract like throat, > esophagus, and mouth. *It takes at least 12 years of high doses of > beta-carotene to thwart the onset of cancer of the lung.* A* Harvard Study > of male physicians taking 50 mg supplements of beta carotene every other day > for 6 years show that the controlled group had only half the number of fatal > heart attacks and strokes compared to the general population.* Another > Harvard study of 90,000 female nurses show that those eating the most beta > carotene (more that 11,000 I.U. per day) had a 22% lower risk of heart > disease than those getting less than 3,800 I.U. per day.* In addition, the > study showed that those women who ate at least 5 carrots a week were 68% > less likely to have strokes compared to the normal group. Eating a high > volume of spinach also cut the stroke risk by 40 % (spinach contains a lot > of beta-carotene).* Well first of all, this second set of nubmers is much lower. There's no such thing as an " IU " of beta-carotene, but for a supplement dissolved in an oil, 60 mg would essentially convert to 180,000 IU by the IOM conversion factor, and this is talking about using 11,000, and then about eating carrots, and it is completely impossible to get anywhere near the dose you are taking from carrots. It is just impossible to get that from food -- totally impossible. There were three major studies on lung cancer, and two found an increase. One had to get cut short because the increase in cancer mortality was so high and evident very quickly. There was one study that did not find this, but the serum level it reached as far lower than in the other two studies. Tufts followed up with research on ferrets, and they chose ferrets because they are very, very similar to humans in their carotenoid metabolism, and also in their development of lung cancer. And they showed that, even in the absence of cigarette smoke or any aggravating factor, the high dose of carotene equivalent to 30 mg/day in a human, caused cancerous development, high oxidative stress, and totally depleted the levels of retinoic acid. They also showed that 6 mg a day, which you can actually get from food, was harmless and even seemed protective. If you have ANY problems after starting the carotene -- and you indicated you did -- you should stop the carotene immediately. It is NOT remotely safe and it is not a level that is possible to get from food. It's completely unnatural, and verified to be dangerous. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Sorry I've been studying for years, you need to produce evidence to claim stuff like that- vitamin A stops being made in your body around age 15- every time you go outside your vitamin A is depleted- it's a restorative protective- sounds like you've been reading FDA stuff...Beta Carotene AND CARNOSINE had brought back my eyesight- with lots of other supps- I had this pain before but cured it (and IBS) witth Bromelain, papaya extract and probiotics - I didn't want to use enzymes again but it looks as though I have no option CJ On 08/01/2008, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote: > > On 1/8/08, C.G <johnsoncaro@... <johnsoncaro%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > Many studies have shown that people with high levels of beta carotene in > > their diet not only have a less likely chance of developing cancer, > > especially that of lung, but also the rest of the GI tract like throat, > > esophagus, and mouth. *It takes at least 12 years of high doses of > > beta-carotene to thwart the onset of cancer of the lung.* A* Harvard > Study > > of male physicians taking 50 mg supplements of beta carotene every other > day > > for 6 years show that the controlled group had only half the number of > fatal > > heart attacks and strokes compared to the general population.* Another > > Harvard study of 90,000 female nurses show that those eating the most > beta > > carotene (more that 11,000 I.U. per day) had a 22% lower risk of heart > > disease than those getting less than 3,800 I.U. per day.* In addition, > the > > study showed that those women who ate at least 5 carrots a week were 68% > > less likely to have strokes compared to the normal group. Eating a high > > volume of spinach also cut the stroke risk by 40 % (spinach contains a > lot > > of beta-carotene).* > > Well first of all, this second set of nubmers is much lower. There's > no such thing as an " IU " of beta-carotene, but for a supplement > dissolved in an oil, 60 mg would essentially convert to 180,000 IU by > the IOM conversion factor, and this is talking about using 11,000, and > then about eating carrots, and it is completely impossible to get > anywhere near the dose you are taking from carrots. It is just > impossible to get that from food -- totally impossible. > > There were three major studies on lung cancer, and two found an > increase. One had to get cut short because the increase in cancer > mortality was so high and evident very quickly. There was one study > that did not find this, but the serum level it reached as far lower > than in the other two studies. > > Tufts followed up with research on ferrets, and they chose ferrets > because they are very, very similar to humans in their carotenoid > metabolism, and also in their development of lung cancer. And they > showed that, even in the absence of cigarette smoke or any aggravating > factor, the high dose of carotene equivalent to 30 mg/day in a human, > caused cancerous development, high oxidative stress, and totally > depleted the levels of retinoic acid. > > They also showed that 6 mg a day, which you can actually get from > food, was harmless and even seemed protective. > > If you have ANY problems after starting the carotene -- and you > indicated you did -- you should stop the carotene immediately. It is > NOT remotely safe and it is not a level that is possible to get from > food. It's completely unnatural, and verified to be dangerous. > > Chris > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 I just got some really good seaweed (iodine all net-nerds need I think) plus silica- will let you know, many thanks On 08/01/2008, webriter <webriter@...> wrote: > > Silica. It is helping me! > Katy Brezger > Be a Blessing, Find ways to be someone's Santa Claus all year 'round. May > you be so richly blessed that you will bless others with what overflows from > your cup. > " If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines > they take, their bodies will soon be in a sorry state as are the souls of > those who live under tyranny. " > ~ Jefferson~ > Arthritis/bone pain > > Hi > > am a student, been doing well with curing self of many serious > illnesses- success with eyesight (carnosisne and beta carotene) but > arthritis suddenly worse - I am taking around 30 supps- pH seems > normal but am now needing a wheelchair- any ideas? > > CJ > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 > 9:14 AM > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Hi CJ, > Sorry I've been studying for years, you need to produce evidence to > claim stuff like that- vitamin A stops being made in your body around age > 15- every time you go outside your vitamin A is depleted- it's a restorative > protective- sounds like you've been reading FDA stuff...Beta Carotene AND > CARNOSINE had brought back my eyesight- with lots of other supps- I had this > pain before but cured it (and IBS) witth Bromelain, papaya extract and > probiotics - I didn't want to use enzymes again but it looks as though I > have no option Beta-carotene would have lots of benefits, primarily as a vitamin A precursor -- which you can get more safely by getting preformed vitamin A with the complement of other fat-soluble vitamins -- but as it accumulates over time in high doses it will increase oxidative stress and cause undesirable changes. It was my understanding from your first post that you had problems setting in after this, so, I have no interest in sharing this except that you might fix these problems, and it is up to you. As far as I know, only I have been writing much about this in lay publications, so I'd refer you to my sidebar and the references therein on the subject : http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitamina-osteo.html#carotenesnotsafe However, I've done more reading since writing that and would modify my conclusion a little bit now closer to what I wrote in my first response to you. I would recommend as the best source of information the following review: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/1/262S It is on the technical side, but should serve to provide the compelling evidence you are looking for. The work is done at Tufts, and everyone I've spoken with at Tufts including the lab director believes in a foods-are-your-best-medicine philosophy. The program director considers in unethical for business and science to be mixed together and refuses opportunities to write for private industry. The researchers I talked to there believe that most disease is nutritional in origin and can be prevented through proper diet. They believe in nutrients instead of drugs, and foods instead of isolated supplements. I talked to the guy who is the director of the lab that did this carotene research for a while, and I was impressed with him personally and with his out-of-the-box thinking. His conclusion from this was that everyone should get their carotene from foods by eating a diet rich in vegetables, and only people who refuse to eat a good diet should supplement, and these folks should supplement with no more than 8 mg per day. Also, his lab has produced preliminary evidence that beta-carotene is safer and more effective when combined with vitamins C and E. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 I understand. Nutirition IS a science http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrition Food and science are linked, very much so. I'm coming from Ray Kurzweill perspective http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?m=5 Have to say he has helped me in so many ways I can't count them - the bone thing - have bought some news supps- incld. Rosehip - untried- will report later- many thanks CJ On 08/01/2008, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote: > > Hi CJ, > > > Sorry I've been studying for years, you need to produce evidence > to > > claim stuff like that- vitamin A stops being made in your body around > age > > 15- every time you go outside your vitamin A is depleted- it's a > restorative > > protective- sounds like you've been reading FDA stuff...Beta Carotene > AND > > CARNOSINE had brought back my eyesight- with lots of other supps- I had > this > > pain before but cured it (and IBS) witth Bromelain, papaya extract and > > probiotics - I didn't want to use enzymes again but it looks as though I > > have no option > > Beta-carotene would have lots of benefits, primarily as a vitamin A > precursor -- which you can get more safely by getting preformed > vitamin A with the complement of other fat-soluble vitamins -- but as > it accumulates over time in high doses it will increase oxidative > stress and cause undesirable changes. > > It was my understanding from your first post that you had problems > setting in after this, so, I have no interest in sharing this except > that you might fix these problems, and it is up to you. > > As far as I know, only I have been writing much about this in lay > publications, so I'd refer you to my sidebar and the references > therein on the subject : > > > http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitamina-osteo.html#carotenesnotsafe > > However, I've done more reading since writing that and would modify my > conclusion a little bit now closer to what I wrote in my first > response to you. > > I would recommend as the best source of information the following review: > > http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/1/262S > > It is on the technical side, but should serve to provide the > compelling evidence you are looking for. > > The work is done at Tufts, and everyone I've spoken with at Tufts > including the lab director believes in a foods-are-your-best-medicine > philosophy. The program director considers in unethical for business > and science to be mixed together and refuses opportunities to write > for private industry. The researchers I talked to there believe that > most disease is nutritional in origin and can be prevented through > proper diet. They believe in nutrients instead of drugs, and foods > instead of isolated supplements. > > I talked to the guy who is the director of the lab that did this > carotene research for a while, and I was impressed with him personally > and with his out-of-the-box thinking. His conclusion from this was > that everyone should get their carotene from foods by eating a diet > rich in vegetables, and only people who refuse to eat a good diet > should supplement, and these folks should supplement with no more than > 8 mg per day. > > Also, his lab has produced preliminary evidence that beta-carotene is > safer and more effective when combined with vitamins C and E. > > Chris > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Consider adding in more riboflavin (B2). It is needed to assimilate a number of the supplemental forms of B vitamins, so you may have a higher demand than your multi is supplying you. There are studies on how riboflavin helps with rheumatoid arthritis, so I think it is worth considering for your sudden worsening of arthritis. -Lana On Jan 7, 2008 4:28 PM, C.G <johnsoncaro@...> wrote: > Hi > > am a student, been doing well with curing self of many serious > illnesses- success with eyesight (carnosisne and beta carotene) but > arthritis suddenly worse - I am taking around 30 supps- pH seems > normal but am now needing a wheelchair- any ideas? > > CJ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 one thing often overlooked is Sugar, it causes pain in joints and muscles. Katy Brezger http://to-reverse-diabetes.blogspot.com/ Be a Blessing, Find ways to be someone's Santa Claus all year 'round. May you be so richly blessed that you will bless others with what overflows from your cup. " If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in a sorry state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny. " ~ Jefferson~ Arthritis/bone pain Are you consuming any Milk products? milk and it's products are detrimental for the human body and should be avoided.. my suggestions would be to avoid them.. humbly dev Arthritis/bone pain Hi am a student, been doing well with curing self of many serious illnesses- success with eyesight (carnosisne and beta carotene) but arthritis suddenly worse - I am taking around 30 supps- pH seems normal but am now needing a wheelchair- any ideas? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Thanks Lana, I take Brewers Yeast and B Complex which help a lot - may need to increase B2- many thanks CJ On 09/01/2008, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > > Consider adding in more riboflavin (B2). It is needed to assimilate a > number of the supplemental forms of B vitamins, so you may have a > higher demand than your multi is supplying you. There are studies on > how riboflavin helps with rheumatoid arthritis, so I think it is worth > considering for your sudden worsening of arthritis. > > -Lana > > On Jan 7, 2008 4:28 PM, C.G <johnsoncaro@...<johnsoncaro%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > Hi > > > > am a student, been doing well with curing self of many serious > > illnesses- success with eyesight (carnosisne and beta carotene) but > > arthritis suddenly worse - I am taking around 30 supps- pH seems > > normal but am now needing a wheelchair- any ideas? > > > > CJ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Hi Dev milk can be good or bad depending who you are- I believe in rotation of diet as much as possible so 'antibody' activity is less likely - organic unpastuerised milk can be very good to help eliminate some virus activity (see whey) and very bad also Best wishes CJ On 08/01/2008, dev <cybarrette@...> wrote: > > Are you consuming any Milk products? milk and it's products are > detrimental for the human body and should be avoided.. my suggestions would > be to avoid them.. > humbly > dev > > Arthritis/bone pain > > Hi > > am a student, been doing well with curing self of many serious > illnesses- success with eyesight (carnosisne and beta carotene) but > arthritis suddenly worse - I am taking around 30 supps- pH seems > normal but am now needing a wheelchair- any ideas? > > . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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