Re: Your opinion please - butter / butterfat

[Guest guest]

--- <gdawson6@...> wrote:

> So my main source of calories is butterfat. I've been considering

> ordering a large amount of raw butter for freezing purposes to have

> some on hand for a while. I am on a budget so keep that in mind.

> I used to eat most of my butterfat from kerrygold or Organic Valley

> Pastured butter. Both are obviously pasteurized but cultured.

, I thought you were in southern California, where raw dairy is

legal in stores. I would have thought you could get raw butter in

stores there at a reasonable price.

> I've recently started buying pasteurized (not ultra) clover organic

> heavy whipping cream, and from all my research clover has excellent

> dairy practices. I kefir it for 2 days until it is super thick and

> nice and sour. Its taste is excellent and I apparently feel really

> good while eating it as I have been eating 4-8 oz of it with almost

> every meal for the past month or so. Its obviously very probiotic

> and I have been enjoying it very much, and don't seem to have any

> problems with the fact that it is pasteurized.

>

> Now, I have been wondering about raw butter. I can get pastured raw

> butter shipped for probably about $11-$12 a pound (includes

> shipping) and was wondering if it was really worth it. Its spring

> butter too. Is it really worth it to pay nearly double for raw

> butter if I amdigesting the other stuff fine?

If you're getting kefir regularly, my guess is that it wouldn't be as

important to make sure your butter is raw, in order to save money on a

tight budget. I get raw milk and raw cream and make kefir from the

raw milk, so I don't bother to get raw butter. I usually get the

Organic Valley cultured butter made from pasteurized milk. Whole

Foods just recently started carrying a premium OV butter from spring

grass fed cows. They sell it for $3.79 for a half pound, but it

tastes much better than the regular OV butter which is about $5.49 a

pound, so I've been paying the higher price for the premium butter.

But considering that I'm already getting raw milk, raw cream, and

kefir, I would not want to pay $11-12 a pound just to get raw butter.

I do think it's worthwhile to at least get organic butter, preferably

from grass-fed cows. Conventional butter from cows fed grain full of

pesticides may be contaminated with pesticides or their break-down

products, as well as antibiotics and their break-down products. I've

been paying a little extra for the OV butter over the WF organic

butter that sells for $4.49 a pound, mainly because I suspect the OV

dairies may be more grass fed than the WF dairies, but I'm not sure

about that. I seem to recall that the Cornucopia Institute gave OV a

slightly higher rating than WF for organic dairy.

I know there are some other butter fans on this list, so hopefully

they will give us their opinion as well.

[Guest guest]

,

Have you tried Strauss butter? They are an excellent dairy up here in

Northern California. From what I understand, their cows get a

significant amount of grass and their milk is only flash-pasteurized.

It's by far my favorite pasteurized butter, and it is very yellow

compared to the others I've tried (including Organic Valley " Pasture-

raised " CLA butter). If you decide not to order raw butter from

Henry, I think Strauss would be a great choice.

http://www.strausfamilycreamery.com/?section=Healthy%20Farms

Regarding whether raw butter is worth the extra $$, that's a tough

call. One thing to point out is that just because you don't feel the

difference in the short term, that doesn't mean it won't have a

beneficial long-term effect on your body and health. I think the more

raw dairy we get, the better. Having said that, Strauss would

probably get you many of the benefits for half the cost.

Chris

-------------------------------------------

http://thehealthyskeptic.org

[Guest guest]

Hi all:

I make my own butter from local raw cream. I am just wondering how

you go about culturing it. Can anyone help? Thanks. IMO I don't

think I would pay $10-11/pound for your butter if you are doing well

on the other kind.

> I know there are some other butter fans on this list, so hopefully

> they will give us their opinion as well.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You said:

" From what I understand, their cows get a significant amount of grass

and their milk is only flash-pasteurized. "

This made me laugh, I hear so often, " It's a natural product " . To

which I always respond now, " Yes, and so is arsenic would you like a

little in your yogurt? " Pasteurization is heating of the product so

high it kills any good thing, whether it's a 'flash' thing or not,

the food is dead. Raw butter is pricey, I often try coconut oil in

a recipe as a substitute and use the raw butter when I am actually

spreading it. CO on vegetables is terrific, and even in a lot of

baked goods.

Thanks for waking me up with a smile,

Sal

[Guest guest]

Oh I do believe its most definitely important to get organic or

pastured (ie: kerrygold) butter at the least...prefferably cultured in

both cases.

I am in SoCal, but I would have to drive quite a bit to get organic

pastures butter and honestly, it doesn't taste good to me. Its also

pretty much a minimum of $12 a pound. Its been out of stock too often

and when in stock its always a small amount. We may have legal raw

milk at the moment but its not cheap by any means.

Luckily...I get my milk fresh every morning. I have 6 Nubian dairy

goats and the milk is the tastiest milk ever. Only one is milking at

the moment but if I milk her twice I day I get around 10 cups. The

others are breeding at the moment. I plop kefir grains in it

instantly so its as fresh as fresh can be.

Still unsure about whether or not to get the raw butter...

-

> , I thought you were in southern California, where raw dairy is

> legal in stores. I would have thought you could get raw butter in

> stores there at a reasonable price.

>

> If you're getting kefir regularly, my guess is that it wouldn't be as

> important to make sure your butter is raw, in order to save money on a

> tight budget. I get raw milk and raw cream and make kefir from the

> raw milk, so I don't bother to get raw butter. I usually get the

> Organic Valley cultured butter made from pasteurized milk. Whole

> Foods just recently started carrying a premium OV butter from spring

> grass fed cows. They sell it for $3.79 for a half pound, but it

> tastes much better than the regular OV butter which is about $5.49 a

> pound, so I've been paying the higher price for the premium butter.

> But considering that I'm already getting raw milk, raw cream, and

> kefir, I would not want to pay $11-12 a pound just to get raw butter.

>

> I do think it's worthwhile to at least get organic butter, preferably

> from grass-fed cows. Conventional butter from cows fed grain full of

> pesticides may be contaminated with pesticides or their break-down

> products, as well as antibiotics and their break-down products. I've

> been paying a little extra for the OV butter over the WF organic

> butter that sells for $4.49 a pound, mainly because I suspect the OV

> dairies may be more grass fed than the WF dairies, but I'm not sure

> about that. I seem to recall that the Cornucopia Institute gave OV a

> slightly higher rating than WF for organic dairy.

>

> I know there are some other butter fans on this list, so hopefully

> they will give us their opinion as well.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have tried straus and enjoy it a lot. I think they are right up

there with kerrygold and clover butter. All of the above are better

than Organic Valley regular butter in my opinion though OV pastured

butter has the best savory flavor IMO.

Your certainly right about the long term health issue. But making

strongly kefir cultured heavy cream may be even better digestive wise

than raw butter, even if its pasteurized, which is the issue I'm going

over in my head right now. It may also be missing something important

that the raw butter could give me, but I do get plenty of A, D and K2

otherwise.

-

>

> ,

>

> Have you tried Strauss butter? They are an excellent dairy up here in

> Northern California. From what I understand, their cows get a

> significant amount of grass and their milk is only flash-pasteurized.

> It's by far my favorite pasteurized butter, and it is very yellow

> compared to the others I've tried (including Organic Valley " Pasture-

> raised " CLA butter). If you decide not to order raw butter from

> Henry, I think Strauss would be a great choice.

>

> http://www.strausfamilycreamery.com/?section=Healthy%20Farms

>

> Regarding whether raw butter is worth the extra $$, that's a tough

> call. One thing to point out is that just because you don't feel the

> difference in the short term, that doesn't mean it won't have a

> beneficial long-term effect on your body and health. I think the more

> raw dairy we get, the better. Having said that, Strauss would

> probably get you many of the benefits for half the cost.

>

> Chris

>

> -------------------------------------------

> http://thehealthyskeptic.org

>

[Guest guest]

my local farmer makes cultured butter. he first cultures the cream with a sour

cream/buttermilk culture from Dairy Connection. then he makes the butter.

http://www.dairyconnection.com/sourcream.htm

>

> Hi all:

> I make my own butter from local raw cream. I am just wondering how

> you go about culturing it. Can anyone help? Thanks. IMO I don't

> think I would pay $10-11/pound for your butter if you are doing well

> on the other kind.

>

>

>

>

> > I know there are some other butter fans on this list, so hopefully

> > they will give us their opinion as well.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Um, whatever. We were discussing the relative quality differences

between various kinds of pasteurized dairy products.

It wasn't a comparison between the health benefits of raw and

pasteurized dairy. As you can see if you read the entire thread,

everyone (including me) agrees that raw butter is superior to

pasteurized butter.

You might want to pay more attention next time before making a snide

remark.

Chris

-------------------------------------------

http://thehealthyskeptic.org

[Guest guest]

I thought butter had too much PUFA to be optimal fat. We eat tons of it

here anyway. . . . hope to be making more lard at the next opportunity.

Desh

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info. So then is the butter sort of sour tasting? How

long does it sit out after it comes to room temp. All day, overnight?

>

> One way to culture butter, that I was told is to skim the cream off

of my

> raw milk (I skim until I have collected a qt of cream) let the cream

warm up

> on the counter to room temp (I let it warm in a ½ gallon jar and shake

> periodically). I guess it sort of clabbers a bit. It will smell

slightly,

> just slightly sour and then I put it in the blender and let it go

until it

> thickens. I can hear the difference in the tone of the blender as

well as

> the level of liquid drops quite a lot. Then strain through

cheesecloth and

> continue through the butter making process. It tastes great and it's

raw!

> Chrissie

>

>

>

> BunnyearsFamily Heritage Farm

>

> firstclassskagitcounty.org

>

> N. Snohomish/Camano Is. WAPF

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

<<When it is then I process it. You don't have to let it sit out longer

unless you like the taste. I think sitting out a couple or so hours will

let the bacteria grow enough to culture, that you don't have to let it

go much longer. >>

Please note that you can also do this with non raw thick cream - I do it

all the time, because I can't get raw milk easily in the UK. You will

have to " kick start " it with a dollop of live cultured fromage frais or

sour cream (or even plain yoghurt in a pinch but the taste will vary).

If you are extremely lucky, it might turn on its own, but with a great

risk of attracting wild " bugs " that might be less tasty rather than the

ones already present in the raw cream.

Its all a matter of taste - if you want the typical taste, treat

yourself to some unsalted french butter, then make your own more or less

than that.

regards from edella

[Guest guest]

--- Idol <paul.idol@...> wrote:

> The irony is that the quality of commercially available raw dairy

> there is poor and the price is high. And because it's legal,

> apparently local farmers who sell at farmers' markets don't even

> bother trying to compete with OP and Claravale.

, that is ironic, and hard to understand. I would expect high

prices and high demand to provide incentive for more dairies to compete.

Maybe the demand is soft because of the high prices?

[Guest guest]

--- Idol <paul.idol@...> wrote:

> " High " being a relative term. According to the USDA, lard is about

> 11% PUFA. That's quite high compared to butter, at something like

> 3.7% PUFA, but low compared to most vegetable oils. That said, the

> composition of pig fat varies pretty widely according to the diet of

> the pigs, so some of it may have appreciably more PUFA... and some

> rare versions might have somewhat less. I'd love to see data on

> pigs raised on a very low-PUFA diet.

, if you're trying to achieve the WAPF recommended goal of no more

than 4% of total calories from polyunsaturated fat, lard with 11% PUFA

is not wise to use very often. I eat three egg yolks every day and

according to USDA data on conventional chicken eggs, they are also

fairly high in PUFA at 12% of total calories. Since even most

pastured chickens are supplemented with grains, they may not be much

lower in PUFA. However, three egg yolks only has 2.1 g of PUFA, so

that still leaves plenty of room for PUFA from other foods. On a 2700

calorie per day diet, 4% of calories is 108 calories and at 9 calories

per gram for fat, that is 12 grams of PUFA. On a 2000 calorie diet,

it would come to 8.9 grams of PUFA for 4% of total calories.

It would be interesting to see fat component data for pastured animals

compared to conventional. What little data I have seen for grass-fed

cows indicates lower total fat but I haven't found any data on the

breakdown of saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated. The

polyunsaturated CLA is supposed to be higher in grass-fed animals,

which should be beneficial.

[Guest guest]

That's because there was no part about avoiding butter. I said we eat

tons of butter, but are always thinking about making lard again. I

transposed lard and tallow in my post. . . . I was trying to pull that

easily made, low PUFA animal fat other than butter out of the abyss which

is my post-lead poisoning brain. Prior to the lead poisoning I never

transposed anything- even years of undergraduate Latin declensions.

Desh

[Guest guest]

Chris-

Yes, fair enough, but the subject-verb 'I thought' clearly implies

conjecture in the sentence as well- at least that was my intent. We did

suet last winter after the last round of PUFA discussions, since I

couldn't find tallow left anywhere.

Desh

[Guest guest]

> Fats to use freely: butter, tallow, lamb fat, coconut oil, macadamia

nut oil

> Fats to use regularly in small amounts: egg yolks (three a day),

> high-vitamin cod liver oil (1/2 tsp/day)

> Fats that are ok to use in moderation: lard, olive oil, red palm oil

> Fats that are ok to compromise with sometimes: high-oleic safflower

> oil, high-oleic sunflower oil

>

> Fats that should not be used at all: soybean oil, canola oil,

> safflower oil, sunflower oil, flax oil, any oils high in PUFA.

>

> Hope that helps,

> Chris

What a great list, thanks.

Shallow question: for the perfect old-fashioned stove-top popcorn,

which of those fats would you use? it needs one with a smoke point

about 350 or more.

thanks,

Connie

>

[Guest guest]

I think they are getting targetted by PR the worst - the dairy

marketing board, soy group, etc. Probably they're getting nice

donations as well, which would keep them from saying anything against

those products.

>

> Thanks

>

> Sometimes I feel that the big agencies are only responding to

profit coorporations.

>

>

> Just, Jim

[Guest guest]

>Unfortunately fats frequently lead to excessive caloric intake for me,

>probably because fats provide twice as many calories per gram as carbs

>or proteins causing me to gain weight.

Jim,

I think you should drop everything and read " Good Calories, Bad

Calories " by Taubes. He basically disproves your above statment.

Not all calories are the same and fat does not make you fat because it

does not trigger the release of insulin, which is the only mechanism by

which the body stores fat. Only sugars and grain-based carbs trigger

insulin. When you stop/decrease carb intake you make your body fat

available to be burned, and without the need to excercise.

Anyway, he goes much more in-depth than this. This is why low-carb

diets work! If you go back into the group message archives you can find

some links to videos of Taubes giving lectures on this subject. I

HIGHLY recommend watching them. He's quite brilliant, IMHO.