Re: Health Check List

[Guest guest]

>

> I've put together a list of the top 20 things to do for optimal health

Hi ,

Great list!

Here are a few more suggestions:

~ Drink the purest water possible, and especially avoid the

consumption of any municipal tap water containing chlorine and fluoride.

~ Try to eat food that's locally and seasonally grown, and if possible

grow your own high brix produce.

~ Include mineral rich sea vegetables, such as dulse, nori and kelp in

the diet.

~ Eliminate the use of conventional table salt and instead use a

naturally harvested sea salt.

~ Avoid or preferably completely eliminate the consumption of

microwaved food.

#10 - avoid the use of harsh, toxic household cleaning products and

toxic personal products

#15 - soak seeds as well as grains and nuts

#17 - palm oil and ghee can also be used for cooking

~ Unplug your television, carry it out of your house, take it far, far

away and leave it there so you'll never be tempted to mindlessly stare

into its unfathomably vapid depths ever again.

elan

[Guest guest]

> ~ Include mineral rich sea vegetables, such as dulse, nori and kelp in

> the diet.

>

I would like to echo the above statement. after living in Japan for

five years i remain convinced that the reason so many Japanese people

are healthy relative to the US population is their high intake of sea

vegetables (read: seaweeds). to be completely honest its their general

lifestyles that make them live longer (the seaweed, raw ingredients,

active lifestyle, etc etc, not just one thing but my point here is...).

there are little bits of seaweed consumed almost on a daily basis (for

some, at every meal) so all those nutrients, easily-handled fiber,

residual healthy salts, etc etc are constantly flowing.

[Guest guest]

--- elan <elan_spire@...> wrote:

> Great list!

Thanks Elan.

> Here are a few more suggestions:

> ~ Drink the purest water possible, and especially avoid the

> consumption of any municipal tap water containing chlorine and

> fluoride.

Yes, this falls under #10 avoid harmful chemicals.

> ~ Try to eat food that's locally and seasonally grown, and if

> possible grow your own high brix produce.

I'm thinking I should add:

Include a variety of plant foods to taste and prepared to optimize

nutrient availability, preferably high brix organic and locally grown

It might even deserve to be placed in the #2 spot.

> ~ Include mineral rich sea vegetables, such as dulse, nori and kelp

> in the diet.

I would include this in the addition above.

> ~ Eliminate the use of conventional table salt and instead use a

> naturally harvested sea salt.

Yes, I think this belongs in the top 20 but I would propose:

Use good quality unrefined sea or rock salt in place of refined salt.

I would put it near the bottom of the list.

> ~ Avoid or preferably completely eliminate the consumption of

> microwaved food.

I'm not sure this one belongs in the top twenty, as it is a cooking

method. I think it is the worst cooking method, but I'm not sure it

causes enough harm to be a separate item in the top twenty. I have

not seen any scientific studies showing that routine use of the

microwave causes adverse health effects. From what I have been able

to find, the loss of nutrients and creation of potentially harmful

chemicals is similar to cooking at high temperatures in the oven or on

a skillet - which I don't advocate either. I don't cook food in the

microwave, but I will sometimes re-heat left-overs, maybe once a week.

I usually eat my left-overs cold because I am too lazy to warm them

up on the oven. I think use of microwave falls mainly under #10 avoid

harmful chemicals, as would over-cooking food.

> #10 - avoid the use of harsh, toxic household cleaning products and

> toxic personal products

Yes, this is definitely part of #10, avoid harmful chemicals. It's

such a long list, it would probably take a book to do it justice. I

have already put a list on my blog:

http://stay-healthy-enjoy-life.blogspot.com/2007/11/avoiding-harmful-chemicals-i\

n-food-and.html

> #15 - soak seeds as well as grains and nuts

Grains and nuts are seeds, but I haven't heard of anyone soaking

sunflower seeds, sesame seeds, mustard seeds, or any of the spice

seeds. I think grains, nuts, and seeds should only be consumed in

small amounts because of their relative high amounts of

polyunsaturated fat, otherwise you won't meet #6 restrict

polyunsaturated fats to no more than 4% of calories.

> #17 - palm oil and ghee can also be used for cooking

Palm oil may not be quite as good for cooking since it is only 51%

saturated versus butter at 68% and coconut oil at 92% saturated. In

fact, maybe I should remove tallow from the list, because it is only

52% saturated. Palm kernel oil might be a better choice for cooking

since it is 86% saturated, but I am not familiar with it's use. Ghee

should be very similar to butter for cooking and should be good but I

haven't seen any data on it's percent saturated fat. For reference:

http://stay-healthy-enjoy-life.blogspot.com/2007/10/selecting-fats-and-oils-for-\

health.html

> ~ Unplug your television, carry it out of your house, take it far,

> far away and leave it there so you'll never be tempted to mindlessly

> stare into its unfathomably vapid depths ever again.

LOL! I don't watch much TV, but I hope that doesn't apply to my

computer monitor

I find it easier to read from the computer than from books. I would

like to replace my CRT at home with a flat panel LCD, as I think the

LCD's have much lower electromagnetic emissions and I like the one I

have at work. But I'm too cheap - I'll probably wait until the CRT

breaks.

[Guest guest]

Probably a good idea to wait as LCDs currently contain Mercury. There are a

few manufacturers currently working on Mercury free versions. Their

backlights are LEDs instead of flourescent bulbs. LEDs are typically

Arsenic based. They are sealed better than the Mercury bulbs so they are

less likely to leak.

-Lana

> I would

> like to replace my CRT at home with a flat panel LCD, as I think the

> LCD's have much lower electromagnetic emissions and I like the one I

> have at work. But I'm too cheap - I'll probably wait until the CRT

> breaks.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

here is a list from WAPF. there is overlap with your list.

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/dietguidelines.html

>

> I've put together a list of the top 20 things to do for optimal health

> - as near as I can gather from the health research I've been doing

> over the last couple of years. I realize that priorities in this list

> will vary from person to person, depending on many factors, but I

> ordered the list mainly for people who are eating a conventional

> modern diet and want to make changes to improve their health. Some of

> the items on this list would have been irrelevant 100 years ago

>

> In the interest of brevity, I have not included justifications, but

> I'd like to know what others think about the list. Are there any

> important items that I've missed? Are these reasonable priorities for

> most people?

>

> I will probably post this list on my blog along with a link to this

> message on NN for more information. My goal is to develop a simple

> list for beginners to help them focus on what they can do to improve

> their health. I may make adjustments based on discussions here.

>

> OK, here's the list:

>

> 1) Include animal seafoods and/or organ meats and/or dairy

> (from Weston A Price study of most healthful native diets)

[Guest guest]

--- Elan wrote:

> > ~ Include mineral rich sea vegetables, such as dulse, nori and

> > kelp in the diet.

>

--- " benyokohama " <hungjury@...> wrote:

> I would like to echo the above statement. after living in Japan for

> five years i remain convinced that the reason so many Japanese

> people are healthy relative to the US population is their high

> intake of sea vegetables (read: seaweeds). to be completely honest

> its their general lifestyles that make them live longer (the

> seaweed, raw ingredients, active lifestyle, etc etc, not just one

> thing but my point here is...)...there are little bits of seaweed

> consumed almost on a daily basis (for some, at every meal) so all

> those nutrients, easily-handled fiber, residual healthy salts, etc

> etc are constantly flowing.

Ben, I thought the Japanese ate a lot of fresh raw animal sea foods.

I would guess that is a major reason for their good health. That was

one of the foods that Weston Price attributed to good health. I'm not

sure if Price even mentioned plant sea foods, but I would guess that

that would be at best a secondary contributor.

[Guest guest]

--- carolyn_graff <zgraff@...> wrote:

> here is a list from WAPF. there is overlap with your list.

> http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/dietguidelines.html

Carolyn, thanks, I've seen the WAPF list in the past and it has been a

major influence for me. One thing I see on the list that I should

include is bone broths, probably as part of #13 choose fully pastured

or wild animal foods preferably from a clean environment.

The " get plenty of sleep " is also important. I sometimes fail on that

one

[Guest guest]

Very thoughtful beginers list, here is my take on it.

4 - put a % of sweets/starchy carbs consummed @ any meal of say 1 pound

weight.

5 - no added oils other than what is extracted from whole foods we masticate.

6,7,8 - be aware there are good vs bad bacterial ferments

9 - begin sun gazing/bathing titration program according to HRM

10 - move to the country

11 - food side effect are also found in excessive spicy herbs or unbalanced

carb-fat-protein ratios.

13 - only from a clean environment

14 - only use

17 - prepare foods in there own juices

19 - eliminate all...

20 - approach restraunts like you would a sales promotion, ie; are there

hidden ingredients in the gravy, sauce, drink, etc. Order on the side if need

be to help insure quality whole foods.

Best Always, Jim

<oz4caster@...> wrote:

I've put together a list of the top 20 things to do for optimal health

- as near as I can gather from the health research I've been doing

over the last couple of years. I realize that priorities in this list

will vary from person to person, depending on many factors, but I

ordered the list mainly for people who are eating a conventional

modern diet and want to make changes to improve their health. Some of

the items on this list would have been irrelevant 100 years ago

In the interest of brevity, I have not included justifications, but

I'd like to know what others think about the list. Are there any

important items that I've missed? Are these reasonable priorities for

most people?

I will probably post this list on my blog along with a link to this

message on NN for more information. My goal is to develop a simple

list for beginners to help them focus on what they can do to improve

their health. I may make adjustments based on discussions here.

OK, here's the list:

1) Include animal seafoods and/or organ meats and/or dairy

(from Weston A Price study of most healthful native diets)

2) Get at least 30 minutes of active exercise daily

(appropriate for your level of conditioning)

3) Learn to avoid and properly handle stress

(relaxation, meditation, EFT, diet)

4) Eliminate refined sugar and minimize sweets

if overweight, minimize starchy and sweet foods

5) Eliminate artificial trans-fats (hydrogenated vegetable oils)

6) Restrict polyunsaturated fats to no more than 4% of total calories

and minimize omega-6 polyunsaturated fats

7) Include cultured and fermented foods and beverages if tolerated

8) Minimize or eliminate non-fermented soy

9) Get plenty of sun if possible (but don't get sunburned)

10) Avoid harmful chemicals in food and environment

(artificial food additives, natural food toxins, drugs, poisons)

11) Avoid foods that frequently cause noticeable adverse effects

(identify possible food intolerances)

12) Take good quality high vitamin cod liver oil daily

(if you don't get adequate sun, seafood, and liver routinely)

13) Choose fully pastured or wild animal foods

preferably from a clean environment

14) If dairy is consumed, preferably use raw and cultured dairy

15) If grains and nuts are consumed, soak or sprout them

16) Choose minimally processed organic produce (supports 10)

17) Use coconut oil, tallow, and/or butter for cooking

18) Eat at least half of your food uncooked

19) Minimize or eliminate factory processed/packaged fake foods

(supports 4, 5, 6, 8, 10)

20) When eating out, avoid fried foods, dressings, and sweet foods

(supports 4, 5, 6, 8, 10)

The next step will be to add some justifications and expand on how to

accomplish these tasks, without writing a book

Well done is better than well said..., Jim Igo

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

I'm not

> sure if Price even mentioned plant sea foods, but I would guess that

> that would be at best a secondary contributor.

>

>

>

Personally I think you're right about the raw fish/shellfish that the

Japanese eat, but to be fair, Dr. Price did mention that the Peruvians

sold dried seaweed at their roadside markets, and definitely believed

in its health benefits. I enjoy dulse from time to time, myself,

although I eat so much raw shrimp/scallops/crab/roe that I doubt I

really need any seaweeds.

mike

[Guest guest]

I keep reading how important it is to consume seaweeds, all the

wonderful stuff in them etc. I've also read that the iodine in these

can help alleviate hypothyroidism. Here's my question: I am deathly

allergic to Iodine. I have tried dulse, seaweed, spirulina and

reacted. Recently I bought a multi-supplement from my chiropractor

which has just 133% of the RDA and I had to stop taking it. Is there

anything I can do to overcome an Iodine allergy? I developed the

allergy after certain medical tests that include Iodine dyes and have

gone into anaphylactic shock. Although I no longer eat shell fish, I

would have to have Benadryl and an inhaler handy when I chose to do

so. I've only been eating like this for about 9 months. I'd be

grateful for any suggestions.

Patty

--- In , " benyokohama " <hungjury@...>

wrote:

~ Include mineral rich sea vegetables, such as dulse, nori and kelp in

the diet.

[Guest guest]

as a native hygienist, I would advise it best to stay away from drugs &

dehydrated things like seaweed remembering that fresh is best. In my hygienic

opinion an all water fast/rest is the best suggestion based on my own personal

practice.

Best Always, Jim

Patty <mellowsong@...> wrote:

I keep reading how important it is to consume seaweeds, all the

wonderful stuff in them etc. I've also read that the iodine in these

can help alleviate hypothyroidism. Here's my question: I am deathly

allergic to Iodine. I have tried dulse, seaweed, spirulina and

reacted. Recently I bought a multi-supplement from my chiropractor

which has just 133% of the RDA and I had to stop taking it. Is there

anything I can do to overcome an Iodine allergy? I developed the

allergy after certain medical tests that include Iodine dyes and have

gone into anaphylactic shock. Although I no longer eat shell fish, I

would have to have Benadryl and an inhaler handy when I chose to do

so. I've only been eating like this for about 9 months. I'd be

grateful for any suggestions.

Patty

--- In , " benyokohama " <hungjury@...>

wrote:

~ Include mineral rich sea vegetables, such as dulse, nori and kelp in

the diet.

Well done is better than well said..., Jim Igo

---------------------------------

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

[Guest guest]

Patty, have you ever tried a pure iodine supplement to make sure its

the iodine for certain? Just wondering, don't want you to try

something and have a really bad reaction because of my question.

Iodine can certainly cause some really bad reactions, some that could

definitely be considered 'allergic' but are really iodine displacing

toxins such as mercury, fluoride, bromine, etc... from the body.

I know that I need iodine because of mercury and fluoride problems,

both which make you need more iodine...but I have a very bad reaction

to anything but small amounts of it. I can tolerate dulse pretty

well. If I take a good amount of kelp or use lugols iodine on my

skin, I feel really crazy and overstimulated for a few days, get

really cold in my lower back, and a handful of other symptoms.

I have decided to just eat foods that have good amounts of iodine

often, such as egg yolks and lots of butter, and just occasionally eat

dulse.

-

> ~ Include mineral rich sea vegetables, such as dulse, nori and kelp in

> the diet.

>

[Guest guest]

--- Jim, Igo <jimi761@...> wrote:

> Very thoughtful beginners list, here is my take on it.

> 4 - put a % of sweets/starchy carbs consummed @ any meal of say 1

> pound weight.

Thanks Jim. My best guess is that total sugar consumption should be

kept to less than 10% of calories and lower is better. Ideally, all

the sugar should come from whole foods like milk, vegetables, or

fruit, with no added sweeteners. It's probably best to limit fruit to

no more than one serving per meal, though an occasional second serving

is not likely to cause problems for most people. People who are obese

or have diabetes should probably not eat fruit or starchy foods until

their weight and insulin have normalized.

> 5 - no added oils other than what is extracted from whole foods we

> masticate.

That's probably a good goal, but as long as you keep the total PUFA

under 4% of calories, a little refined high quality mostly saturated

oil is not likely to be harmful for most people. The only oil that I

use is coconut oil. I found that it works fairly well as a deodorant

too

Do you have any concerns about using coconut oil? I know that my wife

does not tolerate it, but she has been intuitively FAILSAFE for years

and is sensitive to salicylates, MSG, aspartame, and musk oil scent.

I think most people tolerate it well.

> 6,7,8 - be aware there are good vs bad bacterial ferments

Definitely. If it looks or smells bad - toss it. Also, some people

are sensitive to the amines created in ferments. I'd say go with how

you feel. If there are types of fermented or cultured foods that

bother you, don't eat them.

> 9 - begin sun gazing/bathing titration program according to HRM

What is HRM? In my work that is Houston Regional Monitoring

> 10 - move to the country

That's not practical for most people, but will in most cases help with

avoiding harmful chemicals. However, you still have to be careful

about who was there before you and what they may have left behind.

> 11 - food side effect are also found in excessive spicy herbs or

> unbalanced carb-fat-protein ratios.

Many plant and animal foods have natural chemicals that cause very

noticeable harmful effects in some people at fairly low

concentrations. At high enough concentrations, most people are affected.

As far as carb-fat-protein ratios, I'm not sure there is a one size

fits all. You have to find what works best for you. I think most

people do best with high fat and low carb along with modest amounts of

protein. Some people seem to do well on fairly high carb diets. I

think the key may be weight gain. If you are gaining fat weight, you

should cut back on carbs and be sure not to eat when you're not hungry.

> 13 - only from a clean environment

Definitely.

> 14 - only use

That is definitely ideal, although I think some people can still

benefit from processed dairy.

> 17 - prepare foods in there own juices

That is what I do most of the time, but I also like to cook ground

meat with coconut oil sometimes to get a little extra medium chain

saturated fat.

> 19 - eliminate all...

Ideally, yes. For most people this will not happen, so I think

minimize is realistic to include in the wording. I will probably

replace this item on the list however, since it is covered in previous

items.

> 20 - approach restaurants like you would a sales promotion, ie;

> are there hidden ingredients in the gravy, sauce, drink, etc.

> Order on the side if need be to help insure quality whole foods.

Ideally, eating at restaurants should be eliminated too, unless you

find one that uses all of the right foods and preparation - which is

very rare. But in the real world, most of like a break once in a

while. And it's hard to make your own meals when you're traveling.

So I think the best solution is to minimize eating at restaurants and

to be careful about choosing the least regrettable foods when you do

eat out. I will probably replace this item in the list as well, since

it is also covered in previous items.

What do you think about inserting:

2) Include a variety of plant foods to taste and prepared to optimize

nutrient availability, preferably high brix organic and locally grown

Does this deserve to be #2?

Thanks for your input. I'm sure you've been studying health much

longer than I

> <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> OK, here's the list:

>

> 1) Include animal seafoods and/or organ meats and/or dairy

> (from Weston A Price study of most healthful native diets)

>

> 2) Get at least 30 minutes of active exercise daily

> (appropriate for your level of conditioning)

>

> 3) Learn to avoid and properly handle stress

> (relaxation, meditation, EFT, diet)

>

> 4) Eliminate refined sugar and minimize sweets

> if overweight, minimize starchy and sweet foods

>

> 5) Eliminate artificial trans-fats (hydrogenated vegetable oils)

>

> 6) Restrict polyunsaturated fats to no more than 4% of total

> calories and minimize omega-6 polyunsaturated fats

>

> 7) Include cultured and fermented foods and beverages if tolerated

>

> 8) Minimize or eliminate non-fermented soy

>

> 9) Get plenty of sun if possible (but don't get sunburned)

>

> 10) Avoid harmful chemicals in food and environment

> (artificial food additives, natural food toxins, drugs, poisons)

>

> 11) Avoid foods that frequently cause noticeable adverse effects

> (identify possible food intolerances)

>

> 12) Take good quality high vitamin cod liver oil daily

> (if you don't get adequate sun, seafood, and liver routinely)

>

> 13) Choose fully pastured or wild animal foods

> preferably from a clean environment

>

> 14) If dairy is consumed, preferably use raw and cultured dairy

>

> 15) If grains and nuts are consumed, soak or sprout them

>

> 16) Choose minimally processed organic produce (supports 10)

>

> 17) Use coconut oil, tallow, and/or butter for cooking

>

> 18) Eat at least half of your food uncooked

>

> 19) Minimize or eliminate factory processed/packaged fake foods

> (supports 4, 5, 6, 8, 10)

>

> 20) When eating out, avoid fried foods, dressings, and sweet foods

> (supports 4, 5, 6, 8, 10)

[Guest guest]

Again, persoanally I do not use any added oils as I extract oils, salts, & the

like directly out of the foods I eat. Yes, I agree that a percentage of people

are allergic to coconut.

Jim

<oz4caster@...> wrote:

--- Jim, Igo <jimi761@...> wrote:

> Very thoughtful beginners list, here is my take on it.

> 4 - put a % of sweets/starchy carbs consummed @ any meal of say 1

> pound weight.

Thanks Jim. My best guess is that total sugar consumption should be

kept to less than 10% of calories and lower is better. Ideally, all

the sugar should come from whole foods like milk, vegetables, or

fruit, with no added sweeteners. It's probably best to limit fruit to

no more than one serving per meal, though an occasional second serving

is not likely to cause problems for most people. People who are obese

or have diabetes should probably not eat fruit or starchy foods until

their weight and insulin have normalized.

> 5 - no added oils other than what is extracted from whole foods we

> masticate.

That's probably a good goal, but as long as you keep the total PUFA

under 4% of calories, a little refined high quality mostly saturated

oil is not likely to be harmful for most people. The only oil that I

use is coconut oil. I found that it works fairly well as a deodorant

too

Do you have any concerns about using coconut oil? I know that my wife

does not tolerate it, but she has been intuitively FAILSAFE for years

and is sensitive to salicylates, MSG, aspartame, and musk oil scent.

I think most people tolerate it well.

> 6,7,8 - be aware there are good vs bad bacterial ferments

Definitely. If it looks or smells bad - toss it. Also, some people

are sensitive to the amines created in ferments. I'd say go with how

you feel. If there are types of fermented or cultured foods that

bother you, don't eat them.

> 9 - begin sun gazing/bathing titration program according to HRM

What is HRM? In my work that is Houston Regional Monitoring

> 10 - move to the country

That's not practical for most people, but will in most cases help with

avoiding harmful chemicals. However, you still have to be careful

about who was there before you and what they may have left behind.

> 11 - food side effect are also found in excessive spicy herbs or

> unbalanced carb-fat-protein ratios.

Many plant and animal foods have natural chemicals that cause very

noticeable harmful effects in some people at fairly low

concentrations. At high enough concentrations, most people are affected.

As far as carb-fat-protein ratios, I'm not sure there is a one size

fits all. You have to find what works best for you. I think most

people do best with high fat and low carb along with modest amounts of

protein. Some people seem to do well on fairly high carb diets. I

think the key may be weight gain. If you are gaining fat weight, you

should cut back on carbs and be sure not to eat when you're not hungry.

> 13 - only from a clean environment

Definitely.

> 14 - only use

That is definitely ideal, although I think some people can still

benefit from processed dairy.

> 17 - prepare foods in there own juices

That is what I do most of the time, but I also like to cook ground

meat with coconut oil sometimes to get a little extra medium chain

saturated fat.

> 19 - eliminate all...

Ideally, yes. For most people this will not happen, so I think

minimize is realistic to include in the wording. I will probably

replace this item on the list however, since it is covered in previous

items.

> 20 - approach restaurants like you would a sales promotion, ie;

> are there hidden ingredients in the gravy, sauce, drink, etc.

> Order on the side if need be to help insure quality whole foods.

Ideally, eating at restaurants should be eliminated too, unless you

find one that uses all of the right foods and preparation - which is

very rare. But in the real world, most of like a break once in a

while. And it's hard to make your own meals when you're traveling.

So I think the best solution is to minimize eating at restaurants and

to be careful about choosing the least regrettable foods when you do

eat out. I will probably replace this item in the list as well, since

it is also covered in previous items.

What do you think about inserting:

2) Include a variety of plant foods to taste and prepared to optimize

nutrient availability, preferably high brix organic and locally grown

Does this deserve to be #2?

Thanks for your input. I'm sure you've been studying health much

longer than I

> <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> OK, here's the list:

>

> 1) Include animal seafoods and/or organ meats and/or dairy

> (from Weston A Price study of most healthful native diets)

>

> 2) Get at least 30 minutes of active exercise daily

> (appropriate for your level of conditioning)

>

> 3) Learn to avoid and properly handle stress

> (relaxation, meditation, EFT, diet)

>

> 4) Eliminate refined sugar and minimize sweets

> if overweight, minimize starchy and sweet foods

>

> 5) Eliminate artificial trans-fats (hydrogenated vegetable oils)

>

> 6) Restrict polyunsaturated fats to no more than 4% of total

> calories and minimize omega-6 polyunsaturated fats

>

> 7) Include cultured and fermented foods and beverages if tolerated

>

> 8) Minimize or eliminate non-fermented soy

>

> 9) Get plenty of sun if possible (but don't get sunburned)

>

> 10) Avoid harmful chemicals in food and environment

> (artificial food additives, natural food toxins, drugs, poisons)

>

> 11) Avoid foods that frequently cause noticeable adverse effects

> (identify possible food intolerances)

>

> 12) Take good quality high vitamin cod liver oil daily

> (if you don't get adequate sun, seafood, and liver routinely)

>

> 13) Choose fully pastured or wild animal foods

> preferably from a clean environment

>

> 14) If dairy is consumed, preferably use raw and cultured dairy

>

> 15) If grains and nuts are consumed, soak or sprout them

>

> 16) Choose minimally processed organic produce (supports 10)

>

> 17) Use coconut oil, tallow, and/or butter for cooking

>

> 18) Eat at least half of your food uncooked

>

> 19) Minimize or eliminate factory processed/packaged fake foods

> (supports 4, 5, 6, 8, 10)

>

> 20) When eating out, avoid fried foods, dressings, and sweet foods

> (supports 4, 5, 6, 8, 10)

Well done is better than well said..., Jim Igo

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Jim and for the suggestions. Yes, it is an Iodine

allergy beyond any doubt. I've even been medically tested. Betadine

(povidone-iodine) causes my skin to blister. So, I guess I'm stuck

with it, lol.

[Guest guest]

On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 1:03 PM, <oz4caster@...> wrote:

>

> > ~ Include mineral rich

>

>

>

> > #15 - soak seeds as well as grains and nuts

>

> Grains and nuts are seeds, but I haven't heard of anyone soaking

> sunflower seeds, sesame seeds, mustard seeds, or any of the spice

> seeds. I think grains, nuts, and seeds should only be consumed in

> small amounts because of their relative high amounts of

> polyunsaturated fat, otherwise you won't meet #6 restrict

> polyunsaturated fats to no more than 4% of calories.

>

Hi, !

Boy, talk about being late to a party. LOL. I was doing some catching

up on threads and ran across your post from February - great

discussion! FWIW, in response to your comment (above), I've been

germinating/sprouting sunflower seeds, radish, mustard, and mustard

seeds (in addition to a wide variety of grains/legumes) for nearly 20

years. I've always been miffed at Fallon's resistance to promote

germinated/sprouted seeds as a way to include more mineral, vitamin

and amino-acid rich foods in the diet. I think I've read that some

object to the type of fat in nuts, for example, but fats are used in

the germination process - energy for the conversion of the dry

material into a living food. Through the germination process,

nutrition becomes more available and/or increases anywhere from

3-3,000%, reducing fat content, breaking down starches into more

easily digestible sugars (sounds like fermentation process, which it

is). Germinating seeds offers one set of nutrients, while sprouting

(greening them up) offers another. My children enjoy them as " snacks "

at either stage. Anyway, fwiw, I see germinating/sprouting (two

entirely different processes) as having merit in the quest for

nutrient-dense foods - at least ending up somewhere in the Top 10. At

the very least, it is a skill which I think has merit to learn for

food-storage/survival skills. If push came to shove, I could feed my

family (including all pets) for months on stored

seeds/grains/legumes, providing them with life-sustaining nutrition.

Well, okay, as long as I had water.

Sharon

--

Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you

will have plenty to eat.

Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul

[Guest guest]

[sharon] years. I've always been miffed at Fallon's resistance to promote

> germinated/sprouted seeds as a way to include more mineral, vitamin

> and amino-acid rich foods in the diet.

Hesitation and caution is certainly warranted because sprouts are

often very concentrated sources of plant toxins in addition to

nutrients, a type of consideration similar to juicing. Note the

greater concentration of goitrogens in brassica (e.g. broccoli)

sprouts. Another key example is the concentration of phytoestrogens

in common sprouts like clover and fenugreek.

Mike

[Guest guest]

> 3) Learn to avoid and properly handle stress

> (relaxation, meditation, EFT, diet)

You might want to include good sleep as part of this or a separate

item. It could be phrased to emphasize breathing through the stomach

and avoiding shallow or chest breathing during common tasks that cause

mild stress (e.g. reading/writing email).

> 4) Eliminate refined sugar and minimize sweets

> if overweight, minimize starchy and sweet foods

Saying " sweets " seems vague and redundant to me. Eliminating refined

flour could be included as part of this.

> 5) Eliminate artificial trans-fats (hydrogenated vegetable oils)

Together with this it would be equally important to avoid other

harmfully processed fats like overcooked fats that have oxidized.

> 7) Include cultured and fermented foods and beverages if tolerated

" cultured " and " fermented " are synonyms.

> 8) Minimize or eliminate non-fermented soy

I would change that to soy period, not just non-fermented soy, because

the main problem with soy, the phytoestrogens, doesn't go away when

its fermented. Further, modern breeds of soy are inherently more

problematic. A helpful suggestion to replace soy with other

nutritionally equivalent legumes like lentils, mung beans, etc would

be good.

> 9) Get plenty of sun if possible (but don't get sunburned)

I would change this to " get 20-x minutes of sun as close to noontime

as possible with as much skin exposed as possible, where the time

depends on the darkness of your skin " . (x is a number, probably

around 60, that I don't know offhand, but could easily be filled in.)

> 11) Avoid foods that frequently cause noticeable adverse effects

> (identify possible food intolerances)

I think this should include specific references to the handful of

especially common and serious foods that people have reactions to,

e.g. " Find out if you're allergic to wheat gluten and/or casein and if

so avoid such substances 100% " . According to Fine about 1 of

out 3 Americans has an intolerance to wheat gluten, so it's worth

singling that out by name and emphasizing it.

> 15) If grains and nuts are consumed, soak or sprout them

This should be something like " soak, sprout, or ferment all seeds

(e.g. legumes, grains, nuts, etc) " to increase bioavailability of

nutrients. " , to be more general and not just refer to grains and

nuts.

> 17) Use coconut oil, tallow, and/or butter for cooking

I think cooking butter is a horrible idea and a foolish way to treat a

sacred and delicate food. It contradicts the notion of eating dairy

raw because despite cultural conditioning to the contrary that makes

us ignore it, butter is just a component of milk and shouldn't be

treated any differently than whole milk.

Also, there's plenty of other acceptable fats for cooking, like olive

oil, palm oil, lard, kidney fat, etc. It doesn't seem helpful to

offer such an arbitrarily restricted list. As part of the same item

or a separate one, I would include a suggestion to avoid using

isolated food components like " oils " and instead obtain fat as part of

whole foods, e.g. eat coconuts, beef, and milk, not to mention olives,

avocadoes, pork, goat, lamb. Further, on the topic of proper cooking

techniques and awareness of oxidation issues, I would advise cooking

only with water, e.g. boiling or steaming, instead of baking or

frying, or phrasing it in other way to emphasize awareness of

temperature in whatever cooking method is employed.

> 19) Minimize or eliminate factory processed/packaged fake foods

> (supports 4, 5, 6, 8, 10)

" fake " isn't an accurate word because plenty of real foods are

processed and packaged in undesirable ways by food factories. I've

taken to the term " industrial food " to designate the bad stuff we want

to avoid.

> 20) When eating out, avoid fried foods, dressings, and sweet foods

> (supports 4, 5, 6, 8, 10)

It doesn't really make sense to have a separate item for " eating out " .

Food is food regardless of what context it's prepared or consumed in.

This item forces you to arbitrarily pick three criteria of food

selection for a particular context. It makes sense to keep the list of

criteria independently organized and applicable to all eating

contexts.

This is a great and worthwhile project you've undertaken, ! The

organization of presentation of knowledge is often much more critical

than the knowledge itself, and the current situation of

nutrition/health knowledge is a great example.

My biggest suggestion would be add an item for body usage in daily

life referring to skeletal alignment, muscle relaxation, breathing

habits, and postural variation. This would cover the ways people sit

and stand while using computers, driving, washing dishes, bending over

to pick up things, etc. It would cover persistent low-level damage to

bodies from habitual excess muscle tension. It would include avoiding

holding the same body position for extended periods of time (e.g.

sitting). I think this would be in the top 3 most important items of

any list we would devise like yours. It's vastly more important than

exercise and only partially overlaps with stress-management.

I recommend these books I've recently read on the topic:

Bond - The New Rules of Posture

Porter - Ageless Spine, Lasting Health

Mike

[Guest guest]

>

> [sharon] years. I've always been miffed at Fallon's resistance to

promote

> > germinated/sprouted seeds as a way to include more mineral, vitamin

> > and amino-acid rich foods in the diet.

>

> Hesitation and caution is certainly warranted because sprouts are

> often very concentrated sources of plant toxins in addition to

> nutrients, a type of consideration similar to juicing. Note the

> greater concentration of goitrogens in brassica (e.g. broccoli)

> sprouts. Another key example is the concentration of phytoestrogens

> in common sprouts like clover and fenugreek.

>

> Mike

>

I think it deals a lot with the fact that its pretty easy to figure

out how to sprout things, especially if you are a farmer because you

know how to get seeds to sprout but very little cultures actually

sprouted things as a source of nourishment. Off the top of my head I

can only think of sprouted mung beans being eaten as a vegetable and

sprouted wheat being eaten as bulghar, both of which traditionally

were still cooked most of the time.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi, Mike,

Plant toxins? Do you think regular doing raw juicing and dirnk it having

problem intoxicating the body? I have done that consistantly for more than five

years. Now I have been suffering skelet deep soreness bone pain. Doctors did

not know whats wrong with me because my routine blood works are normal. If I

exercise, I felt I have burning bone pain worse on my legs. Wonder doing detox

will get rid of bad chemicals? I am in wit ends to end this suffering. Am

going to see a holistic doctor tomorrow and to see what his suggestion.

My friend handed me a paper told me eating raw tomato is very toxic and

also having history of causing deaths. It was written in chinese so I could not

find source of the article. Helen

Anton <michaelantonparker@...> wrote:

[sharon] years. I've always been miffed at Fallon's resistance to

promote

> germinated/sprouted seeds as a way to include more mineral, vitamin

> and amino-acid rich foods in the diet.

Hesitation and caution is certainly warranted because sprouts are

often very concentrated sources of plant toxins in addition to

nutrients, a type of consideration similar to juicing. Note the

greater concentration of goitrogens in brassica (e.g. broccoli)

sprouts. Another key example is the concentration of phytoestrogens

in common sprouts like clover and fenugreek.

Mike

[Guest guest]

--- Sharon son <skericson@...> wrote:

> I've been germinating/sprouting sunflower seeds, radish, mustard,

> and mustard seeds (in addition to a wide variety of grains/legumes)

> for nearly 20 years. I've always been miffed at Fallon's resistance

> to promote germinated/sprouted seeds as a way to include more

> mineral, vitamin and amino-acid rich foods in the diet.

Sharon, I checked in Nourishing Traditions, there is a small chapter

on " Sprouted Grains, Nuts, & Seeds " (pages 112-115) and it sounds

pretty favorable to me. There are a couple of cautions:

" We must warn against overconsumption of *raw* sprouted grains as raw

sprouts contain irritating substances that keep animals from eating

the tender shoots. " (This is in line with Mike 's response.)

" The only seed we do *not* recommend in sprouted form (or any form)

and that is - surprisingly - alfalfa! "

> Anyway, fwiw, I see germinating/sprouting (two entirely different

> processes) as having merit in the quest for nutrient-dense foods -

> at least ending up somewhere in the Top 10. At the very least, it is

> a skill which I think has merit to learn for food-storage/survival

> skills. If push came to shove, I could feed my family (including all

> pets) for months on stored seeds/grains/legumes, providing them

> with life-sustaining nutrition.

> Well, okay, as long as I had water.

Weston Price didn't include them in his top three foods for health,

which were all animal foods, but they should be a good compliment for

many people and probably your attraction to these foods is a sign that

your body can handle the toxins that come with them. However, I

suspect that some people will have problems with those toxins and may

not do so well with these foods. Taste and/or how you feel after

eating these foods should be good guides in determining whether these

foods are good for you.

> Check out my blog - Food for the Body and Soul

> http://www.ericsons.net/

Looks good! Thanks for sharing

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Absolutely, I think those items with phytoestrogen concentrations should be

approached VERY cautiously (and I'd include alfalfa in that in addition to

clover and fenugreek), but there are any number of other amazing items to

sprouts. It would seem wise to me to being with What Not To

Germinate/Sprout, and then go to a list of those that benefit from

sprouting. See, yet again, I see the desire to ignore (sorry, that sounds

too strong, doesn't it) the benefits of germination by highlighting those

that we know are too concentrated. Wheat, kamut, spelt, barley, triticale,

for example turn into what I consider to be a vegetable, rather than a

grain. For my purposes? That's beneficial. The fats are depleted, while

starches are broken down (fermented) into more easily digestible sugars.

And when it comes to developing acrylamide, the reducing sugars are, well,

reduced. Sunflower sprouts are amazing at in their offerings of

anti-inflammatory chemicals. And many sprouted grains offer more Vitamin C

than citrus fruits. The first " bread " was really beer - fermented wheat, so

we can't necessarily argue that fermenting grains wasn't traditional

food.........beer follow bread, actually, and a type of gruel was somewhere

inbetween there. So........just curious when international nutritional

research focuses on fermentation of grains/seeds/legumes, we sometimes

appear to dismiss it based on one or two " highly concentrate " forms of

phytoestrogens......

And, I admit this....I've kept my flock of 8 parrots alive and well with 15

years of sprouts...........their vet visits ended when I threw out the

pelleted bird food and seeds, and put them on a germinated seed/grain/legume

diet. In many ways, and I could be thinking far too simplistically, I

admit, many of their amino acid needs are ours, as are their minerals, and

vitamins, etc., etc.......silly, I suppose...........

Best,

Sharon

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Anton <

michaelantonparker@...> wrote:

> [sharon] years. I've always been miffed at Fallon's resistance to

> promote

>

> > germinated/sprouted seeds as a way to include more mineral, vitamin

> > and amino-acid rich foods in the diet.

>

> Hesitation and caution is certainly warranted because sprouts are

> often very concentrated sources of plant toxins in addition to

> nutrients, a type of consideration similar to juicing. Note the

> greater concentration of goitrogens in brassica (e.g. broccoli)

> sprouts. Another key example is the concentration of phytoestrogens

> in common sprouts like clover and fenugreek.

>

> Mike

>

>

--

Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will

have plenty to eat.

Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul

[Guest guest]

--- <oz4caster@...> wrote "

> > 3) Learn to avoid and properly handle stress

> > (relaxation, meditation, EFT, diet)

>

--- Anton <michaelantonparker@...> wrote:

> You might want to include good sleep as part of this or a separate

> item. It could be phrased to emphasize breathing through the stomach

> and avoiding shallow or chest breathing during common tasks that

> cause mild stress (e.g. reading/writing email).

Mike (), I did add sleep to the list that I later published on

my blog back on March 2nd:

http://stay-healthy-enjoy-life.blogspot.com/2008/03/health-check-list.html

It's certainly not a perfect list and is intended more to get people

thinking about the relative importance of various aspects of health

rather than to serve as a list of health commandments

The priorities are likely to vary somewhat depending on the individual

anyway and many of them were somewhat arbitrary.

> > 4) Eliminate refined sugar and minimize sweets

> > if overweight, minimize starchy and sweet foods

>

> Saying " sweets " seems vague and redundant to me. Eliminating

> refined flour could be included as part of this.

Apart from foods with added refined sugar, there are plenty of natural

foods with sugar, mainly fruits, some vegetables, and some dairy

products. I don't believe it's good for most people to indulge in

large quantities of naturally sweet foods to maintain good health.

Eating a *lot* of sweet fruit every may be almost as bad as eating

lots of food with added refined sugar, especially if you don't burn

off the carbs.

Most foods with refined flour also have refined sugar, because refined

flour doesn't taste all that great by itself. Cutting out the refined

sugar is likely to make refined flour foods less desirable.

> > 5) Eliminate artificial trans-fats (hydrogenated vegetable oils)

>

> Together with this it would be equally important to avoid other

> harmfully processed fats like overcooked fats that have oxidized.

Yeah, I ended up making the above number 3 and added:

4) Restrict polyunsaturated fats to less than 4% of total calories

and minimize omega-6 polyunsaturated fats

> > 7) Include cultured and fermented foods and beverages if

> > tolerated

>

> " cultured " and " fermented " are synonyms.

Yes but do we say: Cultured sauerkraut? Fermented yogurt?

> > 8) Minimize or eliminate non-fermented soy

>

> I would change that to soy period, not just non-fermented soy,

> because the main problem with soy, the phytoestrogens, doesn't go

> away when its fermented. Further, modern breeds of soy are

> inherently more problematic. A helpful suggestion to replace soy

> with other nutritionally equivalent legumes like lentils, mung

> beans, etc would be good.

Yes, I tend to agree with you about soy, but since there are

traditional fermented soy foods, I left them in, though I don't

believe they should be consumed in much quantity for the very reasons

you mention.

> > 9) Get plenty of sun if possible (but don't get sunburned)

>

> I would change this to " get 20-x minutes of sun as close to noontime

> as possible with as much skin exposed as possible, where the time

> depends on the darkness of your skin " . (x is a number, probably

> around 60, that I don't know offhand, but could easily be filled

> in.)

You're right, but I didn't want to make this into a book

> > 11) Avoid foods that frequently cause noticeable adverse effects

> > (identify possible food intolerances)

>

> I think this should include specific references to the handful of

> especially common and serious foods that people have reactions to,

> e.g. " Find out if you're allergic to wheat gluten and/or casein and

> if so avoid such substances 100% " . According to Fine about

> 1 of out 3 Americans has an intolerance to wheat gluten, so it's

> worth singling that out by name and emphasizing it.

I included the following link in my final version:

http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/introduction.aspx

I wonder if gluten and casein sensitivities might be more related to

digestive malfunction and/or dysbiosis rather than food intolerance?

> > 15) If grains and nuts are consumed, soak or sprout them

>

> This should be something like " soak, sprout, or ferment all seeds

> (e.g. legumes, grains, nuts, etc) " to increase bioavailability of

> nutrients. " , to be more general and not just refer to grains and

> nuts.

I didn't include seeds because I don't think most people consume

enough seeds to bother with soaking or sprouting. Sharon son may

be an exception

BTW, what about coconuts? I haven't heard of soaking or sprouting them

before consumption

> > 17) Use coconut oil, tallow, and/or butter for cooking

>

> I think cooking butter is a horrible idea and a foolish way to treat

> a sacred and delicate food. It contradicts the notion of eating

> dairy raw because despite cultural conditioning to the contrary that

> makes us ignore it, butter is just a component of milk and shouldn't

> be treated any differently than whole milk.

>

> Also, there's plenty of other acceptable fats for cooking, like

> olive oil, palm oil, lard, kidney fat, etc. It doesn't seem helpful

> to offer such an arbitrarily restricted list.

Actually, I purposefully selected the fats/oils that are most

saturated to avoid oxidation problems. See this list for comparison

among the fat/oils (compare the percent saturated):

http://stay-healthy-enjoy-life.blogspot.com/2007/10/selecting-fats-and-oils-for-\

health.html

> As part of the same item

> or a separate one, I would include a suggestion to avoid using

> isolated food components like " oils " and instead obtain fat as part

> of whole foods, e.g. eat coconuts, beef, and milk, not to mention

> olives, avocados, pork, goat, lamb.

Yes, in this thread Jim Igo mentioned that you don't really need to

use refined fats/oils for cooking. You can usually cook the food in

it's own juices. Although, I have to admit that I like the taste of

ground meat cooked in coconut oil, though I usually cook it in it's

own juices.

> Further, on the topic of

> proper cooking techniques and awareness of oxidation issues, I would

> advise cooking only with water, e.g. boiling or steaming, instead of

> baking or frying, or phrasing it in other way to emphasize awareness

> of temperature in whatever cooking method is employed.

Yes, it's my understanding that higher heat in general is likely to

cause more loss of vitamins than lower heat in cooking. Higher heat

is also more likely to form undesirable compounds as well, like

acrylamide, PAH, and lipid hydroperoxides.

> > 19) Minimize or eliminate factory processed/packaged fake foods

> > (supports 4, 5, 6, 8, 10)

>

> " fake " isn't an accurate word because plenty of real foods are

> processed and packaged in undesirable ways by food factories. I've

> taken to the term " industrial food " to designate the bad stuff we

> want to avoid.

I like to include the word " fake " , because these imitation foods

typically have additives to make them look and taste more like the

real foods they displace. And fake is the opposite of real is it not?

> > 20) When eating out, avoid fried foods, dressings, and sweet

> > foods (supports 4, 5, 6, 8, 10)

>

> It doesn't really make sense to have a separate item for " eating

> out " .

I had though about eliminating this one, since it is redundant with

earlier items, but I left it mainly because most of do eat out on

occasion and I believe these are the most problematic foods to avoid

when eating out.

> This is a great and worthwhile project you've undertaken, !

> The organization of presentation of knowledge is often much more

> critical than the knowledge itself, and the current situation of

> nutrition/health knowledge is a great example.

Thanks Mike! Yes, I agree that sometimes it helps to make abbreviated

lists to get a better perspective on how things are related and best

prioritized. I tried to make this list for people who are getting

started to help put things in perspective. In reality, each person

should make their own list and they may all be a little different

> My biggest suggestion would be add an item for body usage in daily

> life referring to skeletal alignment, muscle relaxation, breathing

> habits, and postural variation. This would cover the ways people

> sit and stand while using computers, driving, washing dishes,

> bending over to pick up things, etc. It would cover persistent

> low-level damage to bodies from habitual excess muscle tension. It

> would include avoiding holding the same body position for extended

> periods of time (e.g. sitting). I think this would be in the top 3

> most important items of any list we would devise like yours. It's

> vastly more important than exercise and only partially overlaps with

> stress-management. I recommend these books I've recently read on

> the topic:

> Bond - The New Rules of Posture

> Porter - Ageless Spine, Lasting Health

I find that since I have been walking 2 to 3 miles every day for about

three years now, it has greatly improved my posture and has lessened

the amount of back trouble considerably. So, I believe exercise and

posture work together. The walks are also good for relieving stress.