Re: POLITICS PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

April 28, 2008

,

> I think there's a key error many people are making here in assessing

> the situation. While the government is supposed to be of people, by

> the people and for the people, it's been co-opted by big business and

> now it's of big business, by big business and for big business. And

> yet most people seem furious at the concept of government itself

> rather than at the Monsantos and Archer s Midlands of the world

> which have taken over. Get rid of government and big business will

> adjust its tools and tactics as necessary to achieve its ends; take

> back government and we the people will actually have a modicum of

> power with which to secure our freedoms again.

I think big government and big business are both contributory forces

and often work in tandem. Has anyone done a good analysis looking at

where the current anti-raw milk forces are coming from? There are

clearly lots of people in nutrition departments, health departments,

government, etc, who are committed to the idea that raw milk is very

dangerous. And these include a lot of people without direct

connections to industry, and who probably believe what they preach.

So, proximately, the idea itself is a driving force. But ultimately,

where is the propaganda and sloppy science coming from? Was it once

fueled by big business and now lives on its own? Is it currently

propagated by large milk manufacturers? Etc?

In other words, is there good evidence we can use in this discussion

to implicate big business or big government or both or neither, etc?

Chris

April 28, 2008

It would be fascinating, wouldn't it, to ask the vocal anti-raw milk

people why they feel so strongly and where they got their information?

If we use the fluoridation lobby as an example, there are a few key

inputs, like the ADA and dental schools, that disseminate the

information (and attitude) to all the professionals, so a few key PR

placements could influence a lot of people.

Perhaps a wise strategy would be for the raw milk campaign to find

the " key " information hubs for nutrition and supply them with

information like the book " The Untold Story of Milk " . Turning even

one of them could be instrumental in this movement.

>

> I think big government and big business are both contributory forces

> and often work in tandem. Has anyone done a good analysis looking

at

> where the current anti-raw milk forces are coming from? There are

> clearly lots of people in nutrition departments, health departments,

> government, etc, who are committed to the idea that raw milk is very

> dangerous. And these include a lot of people without direct

> connections to industry, and who probably believe what they preach.

> So, proximately, the idea itself is a driving force. But

ultimately,

> where is the propaganda and sloppy science coming from? Was it once

> fueled by big business and now lives on its own? Is it currently

> propagated by large milk manufacturers? Etc?

>

> In other words, is there good evidence we can use in this discussion

> to implicate big business or big government or both or neither, etc?

>

> Chris

>

April 28, 2008

> So, proximately, the idea itself is a driving force. But ultimately,

> where is the propaganda and sloppy science coming from? Was it once

> fueled by big business and now lives on its own? Is it currently

> propagated by large milk manufacturers? Etc?

>

> In other words, is there good evidence we can use in this discussion

> to implicate big business or big government or both or neither, etc?

Didn't Ron Schmid cover this in his book on raw milk?

Is there ever a scenario of this nature where the genesis of the

action begins in the " marketplace " and then goes looking for gov't

support, and ultimately finds it? After that it then takes on a life

of its own, replete with true believers and industry hacks alike?

--

" And true manhood is shown not in the choice of a celibate life. On

the contrary, the prize in the contest of men is won by him who has

trained himself by the discharge of the duties of husband and father

and by the supervision of a household, regardless of pleasure and

pain. It is won by him, I say, who in the midst of his solicitude for

his family, shows himself inseparable from the love of God. "

- Clement of andria

April 28, 2008

>

> Is there ever a scenario of this nature where the genesis of the

> action begins in the " marketplace " and then goes looking for gov't

> support, and ultimately finds it? After that it then takes on a life

> of its own, replete with true believers and industry hacks alike?

That should read " is there ever a scenario....that *does not* begin

in the " marketplace "

--

" And true manhood is shown not in the choice of a celibate life. On

the contrary, the prize in the contest of men is won by him who has

trained himself by the discharge of the duties of husband and father

and by the supervision of a household, regardless of pleasure and

pain. It is won by him, I say, who in the midst of his solicitude for

his family, shows himself inseparable from the love of God. "

- Clement of andria

April 28, 2008

Dave,

> raw milk is political as is a 'traditional' diet..evidence in

> the arrest of Mark///law is political,enforcement is political etc..

Right -- that's why it requires the POLITICS tag, per the list rules. :-)

Chris

August 8, 2008

,

> Well you might want to think that through more seriously. Personally,

> I think its time to go.

> It is time -- arguably, it is past time -- for you to get your family

> and your wealth safely outside the borders of the United States.

> America has become a police state:

I would not assume that there will always be a " United States of

America " to get out of.

Chris

August 8, 2008

>>Well you might want to think that through more seriously. Personally,

I think its time to go.

so where should we go? England and Germany are worse. Canada is pretty bad,

right? i don't think France is a good option, although i could be wrong. maybe

Italy? i've been thinking of trying to get my family out of here for a while

now, but it would depend on a few things. the biggest one being if my husband

can find a decent job outside of the country. he is in computers so it might be

feasible. also selling our house and most of our belongings at this time might

not be so practical since we'd have to practically give it away!

after reading the articles by McElroy i was interesting to read that

most people believe life is going quite well for them. that's how i feel about

our situation. for the most part life seems good for us. we live in a smallish

town and don't hear or see any of the tyranny that is going on. and when i talk

to others about it i become " one of them. " they see me as a nutjob, a conspiracy

theorist and just plain crazy. it is very difficult to understand the severity

of the situation in this country when most of the population is so fixated on

watching their beloved controlled news media and reality shows and sports and

could not care any less than they do about what is really going on! and to know

how to prepare.

amanda

_______

.

August 8, 2008

,

> so where should we go? England and Germany are worse. Canada is pretty

> bad, right? i don't think France is a good option, although i could be

> wrong. maybe Italy?

According to the 1942 plan of the Nazis, the European Economic

Community has given way to a politically unified Europe in the

European Union -- in all likelihood, the police state developing in

England and elsewhere will become the rule in the United States of

Europe. I don't think moving will do more than buy anyone a little

time.

Also, if Obama/Brzezinski get into power, Brzezinski will probably

pursue his utopian vision of " participatory pluralism " where national

governments disappear as the world becomes governed by hybrids of

public governments and private corporations that have melted into one

another, interconnected by the internet -- in fact, this was the

purpose he described for the coming international computer-based

information grid in 1970, which might give some insight into why the

Pentagon developed it. Also, he envisions the World Bank and other

such institutions as facilitating a system of global taxation.

So, rather than divorcing oneself from one's community, I think

forming tighter networks of communities is a better idea. But that's

my personal opinion.

Chris

i've been thinking of trying to get my family out of

> here for a while now, but it would depend on a few things. the biggest one

> being if my husband can find a decent job outside of the country. he is in

> computers so it might be feasible. also selling our house and most of our

> belongings at this time might not be so practical since we'd have to

> practically give it away!

>

> after reading the articles by McElroy i was interesting to read that

> most people believe life is going quite well for them. that's how i feel

> about our situation. for the most part life seems good for us. we live in a

> smallish town and don't hear or see any of the tyranny that is going on. and

> when i talk to others about it i become " one of them. " they see me as a

> nutjob, a conspiracy theorist and just plain crazy. it is very difficult to

> understand the severity of the situation in this country when most of the

> population is so fixated on watching their beloved controlled news media and

> reality shows and sports and could not care any less than they do about what

> is really going on! and to know how to prepare.

>

> amanda

> _______

>

> .

>

August 8, 2008

,

> so where should we go? England and Germany are worse. Canada is pretty bad,

> right? i don't think France is a good option, although i could be wrong.

> maybe Italy? i've been thinking of trying to get my family out of here for a

> while now, but it would depend on a few things. the biggest one being if my

> husband can find a decent job outside of the country

I would highly suggest the 4 Hour WorkWeek by Ferriss. One of

his stated goals for readers of the book is to make geography

superfluous when it comes to income.

Another book, which I have not read yet but comes highly recommended

by Ferriss as a super implementation of one aspect of his strategy, is

_Beyond Booked Solid_ by Port.

> he is in computers so

> it might be feasible. also selling our house and most of our belongings at

> this time might not be so practical since we'd have to practically give it

> away!

I think you have to look at this at various levels in terms of what

you can afford now, what you are willing to do now and in the future,

and what you are willing to give up to make it happen. It also depends

on your vision of the future. If you think the entire world is going

to hell in a hand basket under the domination of a global elite, then

you will react one way, and much of what I say will be unnecessary. If

you think otherwise, or want to have what one writer calls a " shadow

budget " just in case things don't match up with your future vision,

then you will plan with that in mind as well.

There are many factors that come into play that make this a highly

individual decision, although it appears in your case to be something

you have been thinking about for awhile. Nonetheless, unless you are

familiar with a foreign culture in the broadest sense of the term,

moving to a foreign country normally comes with a high cost, and I'm

not speaking financially here.

The first level are things I think everyone should do, whether or not

they ever intend to leave the USSA, just as matter of prudence, a sort

of insurance policy for a rainy day.

You should have a bank account in a foreign country, one that has NO

American branches. Tyrannies like to restrict money transfers and they

also like to restrict travel. It has become very difficult for an

American citizen to get a foreign bank account by mail, because of the

bullying of the US government around the world.

So this will have to be a personal trip. Make a trip to Canada, or

better the Bahamas, and get your money out from under one sovereignty.

It is always a good option not to have all your eggs in one

sovereign's basket - not to be under the thumb of just one government.

And make sure that account allows for specifying the currency you want

the money denominated in.

If you can get a second passport. Again, this keeps your freedom to

travel options open besides giving you something other than a US

passport to flash in places where America is not really popular (and

that is lots of places around the world).

If you have parents or grandparents who came from anywhere in the

European Union it is currently ridiculously easy and cheap to get a

second citizenship and thus another passport. You may never use it but

it is good to have.

And then some gold and silver. This makes your stored monetary wealth

portable and helps keep you mobile should the need arise.

Another consideration - even if you are a citizen of the US and

Canada, two places falling terribly - nothing falls in a straight

line, at exactly the same place, at exactly the same rate, and no one

can predict reversals or other unexpected or unintended consequences.

Modern tyrannies are no less subject to the law of unintended

consequences than ancient tyrannies. Technology seems to make things

tougher today but that sword cuts both ways.

Now that is the relatively easy part :-)

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