Re: Re: sleep, beer, testosterone, muscle building

[Guest guest]

Connie,

> Have you seen the book, " Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar, and Survival "

> Beer can be thought of as just another intense sugar and will make

> sleep problems worse. It gets you to sleep faster but it interferes

> with REM sleep and can make you wake up at 2 or 3.

I don't think the carbs have anything to do with it. I actually think

it's the hops that helps, as alcohol gives me flat-out insomnia. But

there's not much alcohol in one beer.

I rarely drink more than a serving of alcohol in a night, but the

other night I had three beers and two shots and got pretty bad

insomnia from it. I looked online and found stuff saying what you're

saying, or saying more rarely alcohol can just stop you from sleeping.

All of them said the mechanism was dehydration. So I drank 20 ounces

of water over a few minutes, laid down, and fell immediately to sleep.

Woke up to pee a little later, and fell immediately back to sleep.

If I have two beers, sometimes that gives me trouble sleeping too.

But a beer after dinner seems to help sometimes.

Chris

[Guest guest]

,

> is it because you have too much on your mind when trying to go

> to bed? Are you sensitive to noises while trying to fall asleep?

>

> Just wondering, I've had trouble sleeping most of my life but the

> last few years I finally got it under control through various methods.

Well part of the problem is my shades are pieces of crap and my

curtains are even worse -- virtually see through. And if I use

masking tape to close my shades to the frames, it helps, but still

lets in too much light. Although it varies depending on whether there

are any lights on outside, which seems random. If there are lights on

outside, it is pretty bad. I'm much more sensitive to noise than

light.

The other thing is the heat. If it gets up to 70F, that gives me

major problems sleeping. I sleep best if it is 60-64F. If it gets

above, say, 66-68F, I can't wear my sleep mask because it causes my

head to sweat or at a minimum get an obnoxious feeling of warmth.

And my sleep mask itself does not even come close to blacking out 100%

of the light. In fact if I have my shades closed, curtains closed and

sleep mask on I wake up very easily to light when the sun comes up.

Also, if there is a light on outside my room, even down the hallway

and around the corner, because other people are up in my house, and I

am wearing a sleep mask and I have a towel under the door, the light

coming in the much smaller crack on the side surface of the door will

keep me up, even though I can't see it with my mask on and most of my

body is under the covers.

And then, finally, like you said, if I'm thinking about something or

various things, that really can do it itself. Studying science-type

stuff before bed is pretty bad, or if I'm excited about something

coming up, or it's important that i get sleep for something, those are

all pretty bad.

So I think those are all factors that go into it. Sometimes I can't

sleep and just don't know why.

Also, I believe I'm magnesium deficient. I started taking 1 g/day of

Mg citrate two days ago, which seems to have 80-90% stopped my muscle

spasms (eyelid, inner ear, various random places in limbs, etc), and

maybe it will help my sleep after a repletion period.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Connie,

>> outside, it is pretty bad. I'm much more sensitive to noise than

>> light.

>

> You've probably already tried this but all my kids were very sensitive

> to noise and all now sleep fine with white noise generators or fans. We

> didn't do it on purpose (make them dependent on this for sleep is how

> my parental guilt puts it) but discovered it during summer heat waves.

If that was my quote above, I meant to say I'm much more sensitive to

light than noise. Nevertheless, I was living with other people who

during the semester were often up later than I, so I got in the habit

of always having my fan on low (which is actually my home-made air

filter, so it's getting put to good use) and that helps a lot.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In the interests of science <g>, I decided to do a taste test of the

non-alcoholic beers that are available from my local Whole Foods.

Kaliber - from the brewers of Guinness

Clausthaler - a German import

Becks - no longer called Hakke (from Germany) - I don't know if it has

been renamed or if this is a different brew altogether

St. i - another German import

Golden Pheasant - from the Slovak Republic

I did some web searching to see what others had to say. I wrote down a

list of the ones that seemed to get good reviews. In the end I simply

bought what was available at WF.

The most intriguing website I visited was one where a guy did a blind

tasting with 16 of his friends, and in the blind tasting he also

included Bud Light. Guess which beer came in first with ***every***

taster? You got it, Bud Light. The process of removing alcohol, either

by heat or cold process affects the mouth feel and flavor of the beer

to such an extent that even Bud Light tastes better.

After my tasting last night I would have to agree. Whatever I said

about Hakke Becks, ignore it. While there are some differences in the

NA brews, I would take a Bud Light over them all any day of the week.

So Suze, I think you are likely to be disappointed with Beck's NA brew.

I did however find a vineyard that makes non-fermented pure wine grape

juices - Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Noir, Riesling, etc. - and

supposedly they are quite good. Might be worth a try.

http://www.drapervalleyvineyard.com/

..

/oh by the way, the sedative effect of the hops seemed to be the same

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

By the way, I had totally forgotten that my shade for the window over

my bed broke, or rather tha metal piece that the rod fits into on one

side broke so that the shade would unravel all the way unless I put

some of the curtain under where the rod sits in to hold it in place.

This threw off the angle of the shade so more light gets in. The

first few days it happened I had major, major sleeping problems, then

I tried using masking tape around the edges, which helped a little,

and started doing other things like waking up at the same time and

getting physical activity + bright light and so on that helped.

I think because the other things helped, I totally forgot about the

fact that my broken shade was a big factor in my sleeping problems, so

when they happened intermittently I wouldn't blame it on the shade.

But I just bought a new shade that is twice as thick of material and

got new brackets (or whatever they're called), so I installed that

*and* taped up the edges, and taped the curtains down with a small

piece of tape to further reduce any light filtering through the sides,

and I'm sleeping much better. Last night, aside from waking up once

to go to the bathroom and once to shut the windows when the birds

started chirping at 5:10, I got a solid 9.5 hrs sleep!

Chris

[Guest guest]

> The other thing is the heat. If it gets up to 70F, that gives me

> major problems sleeping. I sleep best if it is 60-64F. If it gets

> above, say, 66-68F, I can't wear my sleep mask because it causes my

> head to sweat or at a minimum get an obnoxious feeling of warmth.

It has been a while... but I vaguely remember something about hormones and

sleep having to do with temperature. I don't recall if it is a direct

effect the colder temperatures have on melatonin, or if it is a byproduct of

the effect on cortisol, but I do recall that it is best to fall asleep in a

colder room.

Also, I believe I'm magnesium deficient. I started taking 1 g/day of

> Mg citrate two days ago, which seems to have 80-90% stopped my muscle

> spasms (eyelid, inner ear, various random places in limbs, etc), and

> maybe it will help my sleep after a repletion period.

This would definitely cause sleeping issues. I could never get enough Mg

orally - try epsom salt (Mg sulfate) or nigari salt (Mg chloride) bathes or

mix up the salt and water in a sprayer and use it topically.

-Lana

[Guest guest]

Lana,

> This would definitely cause sleeping issues. I could never get enough Mg

> orally - try epsom salt (Mg sulfate) or nigari salt (Mg chloride) bathes or

> mix up the salt and water in a sprayer and use it topically.

Was the dose you needed softening your stool too much? Did you try Mg

glycinate or taurate?

Chris

[Guest guest]

Desh,

> I buy Trace Minerals Research ionic zinc for stealth health with the

> kids, and it does contain copper, but not enough probably. I take it

> when I can afford to.

I just got Source Naturals OptiZinc with 30 mg zinc from Zn

monomethionine and 300 measly mcg of copper. I'm adding to it 2 mg

Vitamin Shoppe copper gluconate.

> I got white spots on my nails from zinc def. when

> a child and young adult. . . .and stretch marks, which can also be zinc

> deficiency.

I get white spots from time to time but not nearly as much as I used to.

What is the connection between Zn and stretch marks? Support for

metalloproteinases breaking down collagen etc in unneeded skin?

> Fortunately I have convinced 2 children under the age of 5

> to love oysters, which should be some kind of parenting medal.

> Unfortunately, they eat the lion's share and I am left with a couple.

Congratulations!

>> Noise sensitivity is said to be mg

>> deficiency as well.

> What I read about this was waking easily from noise (an overactive

> startle reflex I suppose).

I guess that is a bit different than what I get but perhaps they have

a similar underlying cause.

>>Interesting. What about light sensitivity? Over the past year, I've

>>on and off had periods of light and noise sensitivity.

> Adele mentions vitamin A (of course) and she does mention a B for

> light sensitivity. It may very well be B-6, that rings a bell.

It's B2 (riboflavin). There is a B2-based blue light photoreceptor in

the tract between the retina and hypothalamus that regulates the

circadian ryhthm. Vitamin A is incredibly sensitive to blue light,

which is why lab analyses must be performed under red light.

Apparently B2 is also. People with blue eyes allow more blue light

in, which causes oxidative damage to these nutrients as well as other

components of the eye. I have an unusually light shade of blue, more

like turquoise, and I probably am exposed to much more blue light even

than the average blue-eyed person. I wonder if means I have much more

oxidative degradation of vitamin A and B2 and thus a much higher need

for them. I definitely seem to have an unusually high need for

vitamin A.

> I am

> noticably less sensitive to light when I take a B-complex stress. I have

> found it impossible to meet my B vitamin needs from food while making

> breastmilk, though I just discovered a new source for pastured liver, so

> I'll try again soon. also asserts that fluorescent lights are

> vitamin A vampires, which has made me wonder about computer monitors in

> that regard. OT, but my niece who is on soy formula is very light

> sensitive.

Fluorescent lights are blue-heavy and deficient in red light so that

seems not only possible but very probable. I am unusually sensitive

to fluorescent lights, the more blue-heavy the worse. Luckily, the

ones in our classrooms now only give me a subtle stress reaction,

which is only annoying and makes it slightly harder to concentrate.

In other circumstances, fluorescent lights have been disorienting or

caused more prominent changes in my mental state. I think part of it

though is my general state of health, which seems to correlate with my

light sensitivity.

>> Incidentals can up your need for Mg.

>>Incidentals?

> Alcohol can cause the body to waste Mg, and coffee is a big Mg waster.

> There must be others we are unaware of.

It must be their diuretic properties as I've read that all dieuretics

waste Mg. I think I might be a diuretic myself, as for as long as I

can remember I have drunk and peed like I was on diuretics. So I

probably have an unusually high need for Mg.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

> I think I might be a diuretic myself

You'd better make sure that nobody who's deficient in electrolytes

eats or drinks you, then. ;-)

-

[Guest guest]

,

>> I think I might be a diuretic myself

> You'd better make sure that nobody who's deficient in electrolytes

> eats or drinks you, then. ;-)

Sigh. Nowadays it just isn't safe to be intimate with anyone without

running all these fancy tests first.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Yes it was. I tried glycinate, which was a bit better in that respect

than citrate, but never tried taurate. The topical Mg is much more

effective than either though, so I gave up oral supplementation when I

discovered it. A few cups of nigari in a bath and a soak for 20-30 minutes

can literally put me to sleep, whereas the oral doses never had that good of

an effect. It is also far more effective with muscle cramping and kidney

pain (which I thankfully don't get anymore).

-Lana

On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...>

wrote:

> Lana,

>

> > This would definitely cause sleeping issues. I could never get enough Mg

> > orally - try epsom salt (Mg sulfate) or nigari salt (Mg chloride) bathes

> or

> > mix up the salt and water in a sprayer and use it topically.

>

> Was the dose you needed softening your stool too much? Did you try Mg

> glycinate or taurate?

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Lana-

> A few cups of nigari in a bath and a soak for 20-30 minutes

> can literally put me to sleep, whereas the oral doses never had that

> good of

> an effect. It is also far more effective with muscle cramping and

> kidney

> pain (which I thankfully don't get anymore).

Are you sure you're not just experiencing the effects of soaking in

warm water and thoroughly relaxing?

-

[Guest guest]

Chris-

> Sigh. Nowadays it just isn't safe to be intimate with anyone without

> running all these fancy tests first.

Yeah, this epidemic of sexually transmitted dehydration is a real

bummer.

-

[Guest guest]

,

I am very sure - because plain warm water doesn't do much of anything at all

for me in terms of kidney pain or sleep - it does help a bit with muscle

cramps but nothing compared to the Mg salts. Epsom Salts work, but Nigari

salts work markedly better.

Also, the Mg salts work for these issues when I use them from a spray

bottle, which I don't bother to warm up before use.

-Lana

On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 9:14 PM, Idol <paul.idol@...> wrote:

> Lana-

>

> > A few cups of nigari in a bath and a soak for 20-30 minutes

> > can literally put me to sleep, whereas the oral doses never had that

> > good of

> > an effect. It is also far more effective with muscle cramping and

> > kidney

> > pain (which I thankfully don't get anymore).

>

> Are you sure you're not just experiencing the effects of soaking in

> warm water and thoroughly relaxing?

>

> -

>