Re: sleep, beer, testosterone, muscle building

[Guest guest]

I think the beer will hurt more than the lack of sleep. I have always

felt my blood could not carry the oxygen to my muscles as well the next

day even after one beer. I don't have scientific proof of it doing any

such thing, it's just the way I feel. Also, not when I was younger, but

now that I'm older, I can see a difference in the puffiness and

slackness in my face even with just one beer or glass of wine. It must

pickle your cells cumulatively.

You are young and won't notice these effects but I believe they are

still there and I wouldn't want to get in the habit of a beer after

meals.

However, a beer now and then is ok I feel for mental health but nothing

else.

On May 20, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Masterjohn wrote:

> So my question is, from a muscle-building perspective, if I find that

> I get a better guarantee of good sleep if I have a beer after dinner,

> am I doing myself a favor by getting the good sleep? In other words,

> am I right in assuming that getting four hours sleep is going to

> sabotage my efforts a lot more severely than having one beer?

Parashis

artpages@...

portfolio pages:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

> So my question is, from a muscle-building perspective, if I find that

> I get a better guarantee of good sleep if I have a beer after dinner,

> am I doing myself a favor by getting the good sleep? In other words,

> am I right in assuming that getting four hours sleep is going to

> sabotage my efforts a lot more severely than having one beer?

I don't know about this in terms of muscle building but loss of sleep, IMO,

is probably the very worst thing for health. It's the one thing that affects

me immediately and drastically. One beer a day is negligible for most

people. But if you are uncomfortable with that there are several ways to

help induce sleep. Of course complete blackness is essential in your room or

wearing an eye mask that cuts out 100% of light.

Mercola had an interesting article on lack of sleep yesterday I think and

the astounding difference blackout shades has made to some people.

Suze

[Guest guest]

Suze-

> Of course complete blackness is essential in your room or

> wearing an eye mask that cuts out 100% of light.

Eye masks are extremely helpful, but while light hitting the eyes

(even when closed) is most likely the biggest single problem by a

large margin, light hitting the skin anywhere has a negative effect,

so blackout shades are better than eye masks.

That said, I really like this eye mask <http://www.icanbreathe.com/eyecover.htm

> because it hooks around the ears rather than the back of the skull,

which always gives me a splitting headache.

> Mercola had an interesting article on lack of sleep yesterday I

> think and

> the astounding difference blackout shades has made to some people.

The problem I have with blackout drapes is that sealing my bedroom

completely against light means also sealing it completely against

fresh air. It's the ultimate catch-22.

-

[Guest guest]

> So my question is, from a muscle-building perspective, if I find

that

> I get a better guarantee of good sleep if I have a beer after

dinner,

> am I doing myself a favor by getting the good sleep? In other

words,

> am I right in assuming that getting four hours sleep is going to

> sabotage my efforts a lot more severely than having one beer?

>

> Thanks for your thoughts,

> Chris

Have you seen the book, " Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar, and Survival "

Beer can be thought of as just another intense sugar and will make

sleep problems worse. It gets you to sleep faster but it interferes

with REM sleep and can make you wake up at 2 or 3.

Athletes I respect highly recommend that book.

http://www.amazon.com/Lights-Out-Sleep-Sugar-Survival/dp/0671038680

Connie

>

[Guest guest]

is it because you have too much on your mind when trying to go

to bed? Are you sensitive to noises while trying to fall asleep?

Just wondering, I've had trouble sleeping most of my life but the

last few years I finally got it under control through various methods.

-

>

> Hi folks,

>

> I've been having intermittent sleeping problems. I've found a lot of

> things to do that help, but there are still days I do everything right

> and without explanation it takes me four hours to fall asleep and I

> wind up getting 3-4 hours of sleep.

>

> So my question is, from a muscle-building perspective, if I find that

> I get a better guarantee of good sleep if I have a beer after dinner,

> am I doing myself a favor by getting the good sleep? In other words,

> am I right in assuming that getting four hours sleep is going to

> sabotage my efforts a lot more severely than having one beer?

>

> Thanks for your thoughts,

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

--- Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> I've been having intermittent sleeping problems. I've found a lot

> of things to do that help, but there are still days I do everything

> right and without explanation it takes me four hours to fall asleep

> and I wind up getting 3-4 hours of sleep.

hopefully you don't have hyperthyroid, which is not likely, but

just in case, here's more info:

Symptoms and Signs

http://www.endocrineweb.com/hyper1.html

Causes

http://www.endocrineweb.com/hyper2.html

More than likely it's something else.

Here's a guide to insomnia causes and cures:

http://www.helpguide.org/life/insomnia_treatment.htm

Maybe you should try counting pastured sheep?

> So my question is, from a muscle-building perspective, if I find

> that I get a better guarantee of good sleep if I have a beer after

> dinner, am I doing myself a favor by getting the good sleep? In

> other words, am I right in assuming that getting four hours sleep is

> going to sabotage my efforts a lot more severely than having one

> beer?

As the insomnia link above says, alcohol encourages light sleep but

inhibits deep sleep. But I can't imagine that one beer would have all

that much effect on sleep. Might be a different story with 3 or 4.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Masterjohn

<chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Hi folks,

>

> I've been having intermittent sleeping problems. I've found a lot of

> things to do that help, but there are still days I do everything right

> and without explanation it takes me four hours to fall asleep and I

> wind up getting 3-4 hours of sleep.

>

> So my question is, from a muscle-building perspective, if I find that

> I get a better guarantee of good sleep if I have a beer after dinner,

> am I doing myself a favor by getting the good sleep? In other words,

> am I right in assuming that getting four hours sleep is going to

> sabotage my efforts a lot more severely than having one beer?

I'm not sure what the impact of a single beer after dinner would be on

muscle-building, since I drink beer or wine with dinner at least 4

days a week, and have not noticed a deleterious effect. But its the

hops in the beer that not only have sedative qualities, but increase

the sedative qualities of alcohol, so you could make a hop tea or

drink a high quality non-alcoholic beer.

Valerian and hops are a traditional herbal sleep combo, although

valerian seems to have the longer history as a sleep aid. But if you

go the herbal route make sure you buy from a quality source like

Pacific Botanicals: http://www.pacificbotanicals.com/

ly, I would be much more worried about the lack of sleep. It will

not only effect your muscle building but many other things as well.

Here is an article I read this morning about the nasty effects of

losing even one nights sleep: http://snipurl.com/29ys6

[www_thisislondon_co_uk]

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

,

> The problem I have with blackout drapes is that sealing my bedroom

> completely against light means also sealing it completely against

> fresh air. It's the ultimate catch-22.

For me, fresh air wins every time. Without it I wake up completely

groggy. Whenever I travel I always check to see if the hotel I want to

stay in has windows that open. Many today either have windows that

don't open or slats in the windows that supposedly let in fresh air.

The slats let in some air but not nearly enough for me.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I think I have heard the negative ion people claim that their air filters help

with insomnia? It is my guess that an open window would do pretty much the

same, as far a ions are concerned.

Best regards, Jim

<slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

,

> The problem I have with blackout drapes is that sealing my bedroom

> completely against light means also sealing it completely against

> fresh air. It's the ultimate catch-22.

For me, fresh air wins every time. Without it I wake up completely

groggy. Whenever I travel I always check to see if the hotel I want to

stay in has windows that open. Many today either have windows that

don't open or slats in the windows that supposedly let in fresh air.

The slats let in some air but not nearly enough for me.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

Well done is better than well said..., Jim Igo

[Guest guest]

-

> For me, fresh air wins every time.

Yeah, me too. I need cool, fresh, slightly moving air... and pitch

blackness to sleep decently. The former three outweigh the latter

one, but ideally I'd figure out how to get all four.

-

[Guest guest]

> outside, it is pretty bad. I'm much more sensitive to noise than

> light.

You've probably already tried this but all my kids were very sensitive

to noise and all now sleep fine with white noise generators or fans. We

didn't do it on purpose (make them dependent on this for sleep is how

my parental guilt puts it) but discovered it during summer heat waves.

Connie

[Guest guest]

and ,

>> For me, fresh air wins every time.

> Yeah, me too.

This is what I decide every time I try pulling my blankets over my head.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Suze,

> I don't know about this in terms of muscle building but loss of sleep, IMO,

> is probably the very worst thing for health. It's the one thing that affects

> me immediately and drastically.

It doesn't affect me drastically, but it does affect me. I have in

the past felt what said, one drink making a difference the

next day. I think it might depend on your detoxification level. When

I had a lot to drink the other night I took 50 mg of zinc when I got

home and I think that might have been one of the reasons I didn't feel

it much at all the next day. Alcohol dehydrogenase is zinc-dependent.

It might be regulated by zinc too but I'm not sure.

> One beer a day is negligible for most

> people. But if you are uncomfortable with that there are several ways to

> help induce sleep. Of course complete blackness is essential in your room or

> wearing an eye mask that cuts out 100% of light.

I'll have to look into a better eye mask, although the summer is

coming up and I absolutely cannot wear an eye mask in the summer,

unless perhaps I get an air conditioner, though I doubt it's possible

to get an air conditioner and black out the windows? I don't know if

I can afford blackout shades right now, I'll have to look into it, but

I think just getting thick, solid curtains might help quite a bittoo,

instead of the semi-transparent ones I have now.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> I'll have to look into a better eye mask, although the summer is

> coming up and I absolutely cannot wear an eye mask in the summer,

> unless perhaps I get an air conditioner, though I doubt it's possible

> to get an air conditioner and black out the windows.

Well FWIW I have both. BUT too much light comes in on either side of the air

conditioner where it has accordion sides. I'm probably going to try to find

a way to cover those. Of course the quilted (blackout) shades only go down

as far as the air conditioner.

Since I have cheap sleep masks where the expandable cord keeps getting loose

and thus the mask gets too lose to be effective, I stopped using them and

just throw a loose dark tank top over my face when I sleep. I adjust it so

that it's over my eyes but not over my nose. Sometimes (probably most of the

time) it covers my ears too so effective keeps out light and sound for the

most part.

Suze

[Guest guest]

Chris-

> though I doubt it's possible

> to get an air conditioner and black out the windows?

Items required: cardboard box, duct tape (preferably black).

Cut two pieces of cardboard which are big enough to cover the flimsy

accordion-style panels on either side of the air conditioner. Using

the duct tape, affix them to the window and the air conditioner,

incidentally sealing all light leaks in the process. Ugly, but cheap

and effective.

> I don't know if

> I can afford blackout shades right now

You can use the same technique on a larger scale to replace blackout

curtains really cheaply, with the caveat that they can't be opened

readily to let in light and fresh air. One possibility would be to

get one small blackout curtain and use cardboard and duct tape on

everything else.

-

[Guest guest]

I have this sleep mask from gaiam.com and really like it. Looks like it's not

available

currently.

http://tinyurl.com/5ddqkb

--- In , " Masterjohn "

<chrismasterjohn@...>

wrote:

>

> Suze,

>

> > I don't know about this in terms of muscle building but loss of sleep, IMO,

> > is probably the very worst thing for health. It's the one thing that affects

> > me immediately and drastically.

>

> It doesn't affect me drastically, but it does affect me. I have in

> the past felt what said, one drink making a difference the

> next day. I think it might depend on your detoxification level. When

> I had a lot to drink the other night I took 50 mg of zinc when I got

> home and I think that might have been one of the reasons I didn't feel

> it much at all the next day. Alcohol dehydrogenase is zinc-dependent.

> It might be regulated by zinc too but I'm not sure.

>

> > One beer a day is negligible for most

> > people. But if you are uncomfortable with that there are several ways to

> > help induce sleep. Of course complete blackness is essential in your room or

> > wearing an eye mask that cuts out 100% of light.

>

> I'll have to look into a better eye mask, although the summer is

> coming up and I absolutely cannot wear an eye mask in the summer,

> unless perhaps I get an air conditioner, though I doubt it's possible

> to get an air conditioner and black out the windows? I don't know if

> I can afford blackout shades right now, I'll have to look into it, but

> I think just getting thick, solid curtains might help quite a bittoo,

> instead of the semi-transparent ones I have now.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

" When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. "

Henny Youngman

Have a beer - get some sleep.

[Guest guest]

I believe Beck's got bought out awhile ago- so it's probably not the same

as it was before. We haven't noticed a difference in the Beck's Dark we

buy, however:)

Desh

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>If I supplement with zinc, I'd want something with copper in it

personally.

I buy Trace Minerals Research ionic zinc for stealth health with the

kids, and it does contain copper, but not enough probably. I take it

when I can afford to. I got white spots on my nails from zinc def. when

a child and young adult. . . .and stretch marks, which can also be zinc

deficiency. Fortunately I have convinced 2 children under the age of 5

to love oysters, which should be some kind of parenting medal.

Unfortunately, they eat the lion's share and I am left with a couple.

> Noise sensitivity is said to be mg

> deficiency as well.

What I read about this was waking easily from noise (an overactive

startle reflex I suppose).

>Interesting. What about light sensitivity? Over the past year, I've

>on and off had periods of light and noise sensitivity.

Adele mentions vitamin A (of course) and she does mention a B for

light sensitivity. It may very well be B-6, that rings a bell. I am

noticably less sensitive to light when I take a B-complex stress. I have

found it impossible to meet my B vitamin needs from food while making

breastmilk, though I just discovered a new source for pastured liver, so

I'll try again soon. also asserts that fluorescent lights are

vitamin A vampires, which has made me wonder about computer monitors in

that regard. OT, but my niece who is on soy formula is very light

sensitive.

> Incidentals can up your need for Mg.

>Incidentals?

Alcohol can cause the body to waste Mg, and coffee is a big Mg waster.

There must be others we are unaware of. When I was reading about adrenal

fatigue causing the adrenals to produce less aldosterone, and therefore

the kidneys to excrete too much sodium, I wondered what would cause the

kidneys to excrete too much magnesium. Perhaps everyone's kidneys are

excreting too much Mg, along with oxalic and phytic acid binding it up,

and overfertilized plants not taking Mg up at the roots.

I get eye twitches without Ca/Mg as well, whenever I am too poor for

supplements.

> OT, but many women stall out during labor due to Mg/Ca deficiency- They

> may have been consuming enough Ca but not absorbing it due to

cofactors.

I should clarify that they are never consuming enough magnesium.

Desh

[Guest guest]

Friends,

" What is the connection between Zn and stretch marks? Support for

metalloproteinases breaking down collagen etc in unneeded skin? "

I think when the skin cells need to divide quickly and there's not

enough zinc for that cell replication , the damage shows up as stretch

marks (e.g. pregnancy).

" Interesting. What about light sensitivity? Over the past year, I've

on and off had periods of light and noise sensitivity.... Adele

mentions vitamin A (of course) and she does mention a B for light

sensitivity. It may very well be B-6, that rings a bell... I think

part of it though is my general state of health, which seems to

correlate with my light sensitivity. "

You may want to look into pyroluria. It's not a disease but rather a

condition aggravated by stress. According to what I've read (limited

information available out there), it affects about 10% of a normal

population. In a nutshell, it's a genetic tendency to need extra B6

and zinc as a result of somewhat wacky blood production. " Pyrroles "

(a byproduct of blood production) bond with B6, which then bonds with

zinc (making both less available to the body), and then the body

excretes them in the urine. These pyrroles are inherently harmless,

but a pyroluric tends to produce them in abundance under (usually

chronic) stress, resulting in a higher need for B6 and zinc. If

you're interested, some good starting points are The Mood Cure (

Ross) and " Depression Free, Naturally " (Joan Mathews Larson). There

are some questionnaires in these books and light sensitivity is a

possible symptom (as are stretch marks). There is a diagnostic test

available, although you have to ship your frozen urine to a lab in the

midwest. I think it's relatively cheap as a medical lab charge goes

($100?), but I doubt insurance will cover it. I also doubt that most

mainstream doctors have heard of it (to where they would deem it

" medically necessary " to have the test done). At this point, I

suspect I have it (lots of yeses on the questionnaire), but I'm not

going to do the test until I finish nursing my son (you have to avoid

supplementation for a few days before taking the urine sample to avoid

a false negative).

" ...Incidentals can up your need for Mg.... Alcohol can cause the body

to waste Mg, and coffee is a big Mg waster... So I probably have an

unusually high need for Mg. "

In addition to B6 and zinc, magnesium is one of the recommended

supplements in the recommended supplements for pyroluria. Others

include manganese, niacinimide, pantothenic acid and Vitamin C.

Speaking of alcohol, the rate of pyroluria is about 40% among

alcoholics. It tends to have a higher rate of occurrence in those

with certain mental illnesses and/or substance abuse issues. As I

find more healthy foods with these nutrients, I blend them into my

diet, but in the meantime I still supplement (I notice I'm less

anxious and more rested when I do).

I apologize for lumping multiple individuals' posts, but I was trying

to address many points as concisely as possible. Please let me know if

you have questions.

Regards,

Hope

[Guest guest]

>

> It's B2 (riboflavin). There is a B2-based blue light photoreceptor in

> the tract between the retina and hypothalamus that regulates the

> circadian ryhthm. Vitamin A is incredibly sensitive to blue light,

> which is why lab analyses must be performed under red light.

> Apparently B2 is also. People with blue eyes allow more blue light

> in, which causes oxidative damage to these nutrients as well as other

> components of the eye. I have an unusually light shade of blue, more

> like turquoise, and I probably am exposed to much more blue light even

> than the average blue-eyed person. I wonder if means I have much more

> oxidative degradation of vitamin A and B2 and thus a much higher need

> for them. I definitely seem to have an unusually high need for

> vitamin A.

>

what are your own indicators for increased vitamin A needs?

More general subclinical signs of vit. A deficiency?

-jennifer

[Guest guest]

Chris-

Thanks for explaining why I hate fluorescent lights. I hate shopping

because of the infernal things- I get antsy and aggravated- so I rejected

cfl's when they came out, before I knew about the mercury. Fortunately,

there were large windows in most of the classrooms where I attended

college to ease the effects.

Honestly, the issue of zinc and stretch marks was mentioned by two

sources whose research skills I trusted, and so I didn't track down the

mechanism of zinc deficiency and stretch marks because my anectodotal

experience matched the theory (lazy me). The TMR ionic zinc preparation

has 2 mg of copper, but I can't recall the proportion to the zinc.

Do you suppose you have adrenal fatigue along with everyone else who used

to burn the midnight oil? Supposedly the lack of aldersterone production

causes frequent urination- and the need to replace those electrolytes.

Edna St. Millay was right.

Lana et al who enjoy cooler temperatures sleeping- this was a widely held

theory in the past- that everyone slept better in the cool air, and it

was reflected in historical architecture, via sleeping porches. Our last

house (ian I'd call it) had a basic one, and the house I grew up in

(1920s bungalow) had a fancier version. Apparently many continued to

sleep on them bundled up until quite far into the winter.

Desh

[Guest guest]

Thanks Hope. I have looked into pyloria before, and don't think that's

us. Have you read any Walsh?

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/walshMP.htm He's not

right about everything, but some of the stuff is good! At this point,

with us, I am leaning towards a malabsorption issue. My family is

riddled with autoimmune diseases (which often have celiac links). We

also stay up on our zinc because we have lead poisoning, and need to make

all the metallothionen we can.

later,

Desha

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