sleep, beer, testosterone, muscle building

[Guest guest]

Hi folks,

I've been having intermittent sleeping problems. I've found a lot of

things to do that help, but there are still days I do everything right

and without explanation it takes me four hours to fall asleep and I

wind up getting 3-4 hours of sleep.

So my question is, from a muscle-building perspective, if I find that

I get a better guarantee of good sleep if I have a beer after dinner,

am I doing myself a favor by getting the good sleep? In other words,

am I right in assuming that getting four hours sleep is going to

sabotage my efforts a lot more severely than having one beer?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

Well, I don't think one beer will hurt you, or anyone. , it

sounds like your liver needs a tune-up if you're puffy in the morning.

I was going to suggest minerals. The adage is magnesium to fall asleep,

and Ca to stay asleep. If you have been muscle building, then you've

likely upped your requirements dramatically, since muscles contract and

relax via a Ca/Mg pump on the cellular level. For testosterone, I would

think more zinc. I buy Solaray's CalMagZinc for ease of use

(vitanetonline has the best price I've found), and add in some ionic mg

or mg citrate if I need it. Noise sensitivity is said to be mg

deficiency as well. Incidentals can up your need for Mg. Folks on the

iodine group report that iodine supps. increase their need for Mg.

So must other similar factors. Calcium is also good for twitches.

OT, but many women stall out during labor due to Mg/Ca deficiency- They

may have been consuming enough Ca but not absorbing it due to cofactors.

I do wonder about Fe and vitamin K when weightlifting, since all of the

women I know get heavy periods when they start intense weight training.

Desh, weighing in late as usual

[Guest guest]

Hi Desh,

> I was going to suggest minerals. The adage is magnesium to fall asleep,

> and Ca to stay asleep. If you have been muscle building, then you've

> likely upped your requirements dramatically, since muscles contract and

> relax via a Ca/Mg pump on the cellular level.

I guess the question is whether this increases the loss of Ca and Mg.

If there's muscle growth, you'd need to take in more to keep the

concentration up, but if you contract more for a given amount of

muscle, does the repeated influx and efflux of these minerals increase

their turnover? It certainly might, I don't know. On the other hand,

Mg is needed for transcription and translation of proteins, so

certainly Mg would seem to be a limiting factor for muscle growth,

along with zinc for the same reason, as well as the one you note

below.

> For testosterone, I would

> think more zinc.

Yes, definitely zinc at so many levels including testosterone and

protein synthesis. I might consider supplementing, although I eat

beef for two meals a day so I definitely get a lot. Wouldn't be

surprised if more would help.

Some people report a bodybuilding supplement called ZMA (zinc

methionine aspartate I think) helping with sleep, but it has B6 in it

too which increases melatonin production. I wonder if zinc is also

good for sleep (probably is) in which case taxing my zinc supply by

building muscle might hurt my sleep if I don't get more zinc.

> I buy Solaray's CalMagZinc for ease of use

> (vitanetonline has the best price I've found), and add in some ionic mg

> or mg citrate if I need it.

If I supplement with zinc, I'd want something with copper in it personally.

> Noise sensitivity is said to be mg

> deficiency as well.

Interesting. What about light sensitivity? Over the past year, I've

on and off had periods of light and noise sensitivity. For example,

when I answer the phone, the sound of the person's voice will cause me

to feel somewhat disoriented or " weird " is the best way of describing

it, or when I get into my car, I have to turn the music much lower or

it also makes me feel weird, and also just seems to strain my ears.

This happens more when I don't sleep well but there might be a

nutritional component too I supppose.

> Incidentals can up your need for Mg.

Incidentals?

>Folks on the

> iodine group report that iodine supps. increase their need for Mg.

> So must other similar factors. Calcium is also good for twitches.

Yeah, calcium in certain circumstances is a muscle relaxant but in

general it is needed for contraction and Mg is needed to clear the

calcium signal and make the contraction transient. Severe calcium

deficiency results in tetany, or prolonged sustained contraction. If

I have no Ca in my diet for a few days, I get insomnia and eye

twitches. Once for a week it pretty significant spasms in my forearms

that disturbed my sleep and drove me nuts in class. However, when my

intake of Ca is high, I do think I need more Mg, or am just more

conscious of the fact that these problems persist even with the Ca.

Sufficient Ca and no Mg is less severe, but still results in twitches

and perhaps insomnia.

> OT, but many women stall out during labor due to Mg/Ca deficiency- They

> may have been consuming enough Ca but not absorbing it due to cofactors.

> I do wonder about Fe and vitamin K when weightlifting, since all of the

> women I know get heavy periods when they start intense weight training.

Very interesting.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Desh,

> Well, I don't think one beer will hurt you, or anyone. , it

> sounds like your liver needs a tune-up if you're puffy in the morning.

Not only that but he can get the effects of hops without the alcohol,

assuming their properties aren't affected by making a beer

low-alcohol, something like Hakke Beck, the non-alcoholic version of

Becks Beer.

> I was going to suggest minerals. The adage is magnesium to fall asleep,

> and Ca to stay asleep. If you have been muscle building, then you've

> likely upped your requirements dramatically, since muscles contract and

> relax via a Ca/Mg pump on the cellular level.

Both hops and valerian, which I mentioned earlier, in addition to

their other chemical properties, have a nice compliment of minerals

including calcium and magnesium. They are used in agriculture

precisely for this purpose and valerian in particular for increasing

the mineral content of soil.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

> Not only that but he can get the effects of hops without the alcohol,

> assuming their properties aren't affected by making a beer

> low-alcohol, something like Hakke Beck, the non-alcoholic version of

> Becks Beer.

, does Hakke Beck taste any good? I've tried several NA beers and

none are very good. I'd love to find a reasonably tasty one!

Suze

[Guest guest]

Suze,

> , does Hakke Beck taste any good? I've tried several NA beers and

> none are very good. I'd love to find a reasonably tasty one!

It is the only NA beer I like and it tastes like a regular Becks to

me. But as you know I tend toward hop monsters, and am not much of a

fan of the Beck's style of beer, so I may not be a good judge. Still

it beats just about any other NA beer I have tried.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

[Guest guest]

Aidan,

> Hi, I thought Calcium inhibited uptake of Magnesium and Zinc?

I think they can all share the divalent metal transporter 1 (DMT1), so

really high doses of calcium might, but that isn't even the normal

mode of calcium transport and for that matter I'm not sure if it's the

major one for zinc either. So I think if it's a pretty balanced dose

it shouldn't be a problem.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> > , does Hakke Beck taste any good? I've tried several NA beers and

> > none are very good. I'd love to find a reasonably tasty one!

>

> It is the only NA beer I like and it tastes like a regular Becks to

> me. But as you know I tend toward hop monsters, and am not much of a

> fan of the Beck's style of beer, so I may not be a good judge. Still

> it beats just about any other NA beer I have tried.

Well I like hoppy too but if it tastes like regular Becks then it would be a

lot better than any other NA beer I've tried. They tend to taste like strong

barley water to me rather than beer.

Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I can find one of those somewhere. Did you

happen to get it at WF? Ours doesn't carry it or at least didn't the last

time I was there but I might be able to request it.

Suze

[Guest guest]

>> > , does Hakke Beck taste any good? I've tried several NA beers and

>> > none are very good. I'd love to find a reasonably tasty one!

>>

>> It is the only NA beer I like and it tastes like a regular Becks to

>> me. But as you know I tend toward hop monsters, and am not much of a

>> fan of the Beck's style of beer, so I may not be a good judge. Still

>> it beats just about any other NA beer I have tried.

>

> Well I like hoppy too but if it tastes like regular Becks then it would be a

> lot better than any other NA beer I've tried. They tend to taste like strong

> barley water to me rather than beer.

>

> Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I can find one of those somewhere. Did you

> happen to get it at WF? Ours doesn't carry it or at least didn't the last

> time I was there but I might be able to request it.

Nope, I usually buy Hakke when I'm out at the nearby pub and I don't

want to drink any alcohol (like hanging out with people right after

work and before dinner). I do think WF carries Hakke. I'm going over

there in a few minutes and I will report back. You might want to try a

single and see what you think. Hmm...maybe I will do a blind taste

test between Hakke Beck and Beck :-)

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous