Re: Re: RELIGION POLITICS: Homosexuality

[Guest guest]

On 1/8/08, Ancient Eyeball Recipe <implode7@...> wrote:

> Ah - this is ingenious reasoning. Because we don't know what exactly are the

> factors that determine whether someone is homosexual, it MUST be a

> behavioral choice? So, for instance, you have someone who only has sexual

> desires for the opposite sex, but will CHOOSE to be homosexual? This is

> nonsense - I'd go so far as to say quite abhorrent nonsense - misuse of

> science in the same way you critique those who uphold the dietary

> propaganda.

I did not say it was a choice, Gene. I said there is some unknown

factor or factors that may include choice, some spiritual element, or

other unknowns.

You seem to be claiming it is 100% hardwired, and you are explicitly

saying there is no choice involved. What is your evidence?

I don't have any evidence that choice *is* involved, and I'm not quite

sure how one would ascertain that, but I don't see any reasonable

conclusion from any data presented except that we really don't know to

what extent it is hardwired, to what extent it is choice, to what

extent there are other factors, etc.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > On 1/8/08, Ancient Eyeball Recipe <implode7@...

>> > <mailto:implode7%40comcast.net> > wrote:

>> >

>>> >> Ah - this is ingenious reasoning. Because we don't know what exactly are

>>> the

>>> >> factors that determine whether someone is homosexual, it MUST be a

>>> >> behavioral choice? So, for instance, you have someone who only has sexual

>>> >> desires for the opposite sex, but will CHOOSE to be homosexual? This is

>>> >> nonsense - I'd go so far as to say quite abhorrent nonsense - misuse of

>>> >> science in the same way you critique those who uphold the dietary

>>> >> propaganda.

>> >

>> > I did not say it was a choice, Gene. I said there is some unknown

>> > factor or factors that may include choice, some spiritual element, or

>> > other unknowns.

>> >

>> > You seem to be claiming it is 100% hardwired, and you are explicitly

>> > saying there is no choice involved. What is your evidence?

>

> I¹m not sure exactly whether there is a dichotomy between hardwired and choice

> ­ it seems to me that there is a huge gray area in between.

>

> To a large degree, I consider the issue to be a non-issue, and that those who

> dwell on it in the interests of separating out homosexuals from other groups

> that are discriminated against have another agenda. Clearly, each individual

> behavior that human being engage in, is to some degree chosen. Even behaviors

> where we might say that the person isn¹t legally or ethically responsible is

> to some degree chosen. And certainly, on this level, we can distinguish

> between race, and sexual preference, because it¹s hard to have sex without

> behavior.

>

> I certainly cannot cite any statistics about how many people who only have

> sexual attraction to the opposite sex freely choose to have sex with the same

> sex. Given the huge number of homosexuals in the world, I would imagine that

> this % is rather insignificant. What exactly is the motivation to do so ­ Gee,

> I¹m not attracted to men at all, but I think I¹ll have sex with them because

> of all of the societal pressure to do so?

>

> Millions and millions of people live their lives this way for more reason than

> that they simply choose to despite no attraction at all to the same sex.

> Clearly discriminating against them is wrong, and equivalent to discrimination

> against other groups. Clearly also, as was my analogy, one can be prejudiced

> against them without believing that there should be legislation enacting this

> prejudice, just as one can be prejudiced against blacks without necessarily

> believing that there should be laws enacting this prejudice. In this sense,

> the analogy is totally valid.

>

>> >

>> > I don't have any evidence that choice *is* involved, and I'm not quite

>> > sure how one would ascertain that, but I don't see any reasonable

>> > conclusion from any data presented except that we really don't know to

>> > what extent it is hardwired, to what extent it is choice, to what

>> > extent there are other factors, etc.

>> >

>> > Chris

[Guest guest]

Pardon me, But...

I have seen straight men decide to be homosexual...

Just to get a promotion in a work environment where

diversity was given a high priority.

Straight men can and will learn how to prance and lisp,

if the rewards are high enough.

It's not like anyone is going to demand proof of your sexuality

by sitting in your bedroom and observing your behavior.

As far as I'm concerned, it's just another way of weeding

out the conservatives... one at a time!

Neal

>

>

> I don't have any evidence that choice *is* involved, and I'm not quite

> sure how one would ascertain that, but I don't see any reasonable

> conclusion from any data presented except that we really don't know to

> what extent it is hardwired, to what extent it is choice, to what

> extent there are other factors, etc.

>

> Chris

>

>

[Guest guest]

Neal-

Even if this bizarre scenario actually has happened, it's obviously

not a case of straight men deciding to BE homosexual, but one of

straight men deciding to ACT homosexual. Surely you can see the

difference. Unless this whole paranoid " weed out the conservatives by

making straight men act gay " thing is just a bad joke in poor taste.

-

> Pardon me, But...

>

> I have seen straight men decide to be homosexual...

>

> Just to get a promotion in a work environment where

> diversity was given a high priority.

>

> Straight men can and will learn how to prance and lisp,

> if the rewards are high enough.

>

> It's not like anyone is going to demand proof of your sexuality

> by sitting in your bedroom and observing your behavior.

>

> As far as I'm concerned, it's just another way of weeding

> out the conservatives... one at a time!

[Guest guest]

I wasn't joking.

But I do consider diversity to be a " bad joke in poor taste " .

I've also seen women use sexual harassment complaints at the

workplace to manage their competition.

People do learn how to manipulate rules and regulations to

their advantage whenever possible.

If a straight man decides to " be " homosexual while at work, He is

homosexual as far as the working environment is concerned.

If diversity is practiced, he would be entitled to all the benefits.

Have you ever worked in a factory where all the supervisors were gay?

With the exception of a few women, of course!

Paranoid?, I don't think so...

Neal

Idol wrote:

>

> Neal-

>

> Even if this bizarre scenario actually has happened, it's obviously

> not a case of straight men deciding to BE homosexual, but one of

> straight men deciding to ACT homosexual. Surely you can see the

> difference. Unless this whole paranoid " weed out the conservatives by

> making straight men act gay " thing is just a bad joke in poor taste.

>

> -

>

> > Pardon me, But...

> >

> > I have seen straight men decide to be homosexual...

> >

> > Just to get a promotion in a work environment where

> > diversity was given a high priority.

> >

> > Straight men can and will learn how to prance and lisp,

> > if the rewards are high enough.

> >

> > It's not like anyone is going to demand proof of your sexuality

> > by sitting in your bedroom and observing your behavior.

> >

> > As far as I'm concerned, it's just another way of weeding

> > out the conservatives... one at a time!

>

>