Re: Wise Traditions - GAPS

January 23, 2008

I am reading her book now.

I agree with you that gut dysbiosis is very likely the root of autism -- as

well as all the food allergies that are so commonplace among kids toda.

Here are some wonderful videos with Dr. C-M and Donna Gates (Body Ecology

Diet) on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLP0Ijo2CK4 & feature=related

There are 6 videos total.

Ann Marie

On Jan 23, 2008 8:13 PM, <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> I just finished reading the article on Gut and Psychology Syndrome

> (GAPS) in the latest Wise Traditions. It sounds very plausible to me

> - that dysbiosis is at the root of autism, ADD, ADHD and other

>

January 24, 2008

--- Ann Marie <inasnit@...> wrote:

> I agree with you that gut dysbiosis is very likely the root of

> autism -- as well as all the food allergies that are so commonplace

> among kids today.

Ann Marie,

I think that even nasal allergies may be tied in to dysbiosis as well.

It was interesting that Dr -McBride also believes that

dysbiosis in either one or both parents may play a role in starting

the dysbiosis in the child. This article is also the first reference

that I have seen to birth control pills causing dysbiosis, though it

doesn't surprise me.

Can you give us an over-view of the GAPS treatment for children?

Seems like I remember reading it's sort of a WAPF-SCD-probiotics

blend. I'm curious which probiotic foods she recommends and why, as

well as which types of beneficial microbes she believes are best to

get in our diet to re-enforce our gut microbes. I also wonder if she

makes recommendations for prospective parents in getting ready for

having children, as that appears to be important in helping to prevent

these problems. I would expect that she recommends avoiding vaccines

and antibiotics for children as well, especially if they have signs of

GAP Syndrome.

She also mentioned a technique to get kids that are picky eaters to

accept other foods. I doubt that it is a new technique, but I'm

curious what it is.

January 24, 2008

On Jan 24, 2008 5:44 AM, <oz4caster@...> wrote:

>

> I think that even nasal allergies may be tied in to dysbiosis as well.

Yes, I personally experienced that. I cured my respiratory allergies (as

well as osteo-arthritis and chronic sinus infections) by going on an

anti-candida diet and taking therapeutic doses of probiotics when I was in

my mid-twenties.

I read somewhere that the yeast is very high in histamine (it may have been

in the GAPS book and may have been in The Body Ecology Diet by Donna Gates,

which I am also currently reading).

It was interesting that Dr -McBride also believes that

> dysbiosis in either one or both parents may play a role in starting

> the dysbiosis in the child. This article is also the first reference

> that I have seen to birth control pills causing dysbiosis, though it

> doesn't surprise me.

>

Yeah, Donna Gates writes about this too in The Body Ecology Diet. It is a

huge problem because so many women spend years on the pill and then have

babies -- and pass down the compromised gut flora.

It would certainly explain the monumental rise of we have seen of autism,

ADD, and allergies (all these kids allergic to peanuts, for example) in the

past few decades. Young women started taking the pill in the 70s and 80s.

>

> Can you give us an over-view of the GAPS treatment for children?

> Seems like I remember reading it's sort of a WAPF-SCD-probiotics

> blend.

Yes that is basically it. I posted the basics on my blog:

http://cheeseslave.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/how-to-heal-a-leaky-gut/

She also adamantly discourages vegetarianism. She says lack of quality

protein from animal sources causes a lack of immunity.

> I'm curious which probiotic foods she recommends and why, as

> well as which types of beneficial microbes she believes are best to

> get in our diet to re-enforce our gut microbes.

She recommends homemade yogurt, sauerkraut, kefir, creme fraiche and " other

homemade fermented foods " .

She defines probiotics as:

1. Lactobacilli - bacteria that produces lactic acid. She lists the members

of this family as: L. acidophilus, L. bulgaricus, L. rhamnosus, L.

plantarum, L. salivarius, L. reuteri, L. johnsonii, L. casei, and L.

Delbrueskii.

She says breast milk is full of lactobacilli. Lactobacilli produces hydrogen

peroxide which is a powerful anti-fungal, anti-septic and anti-bacterial

agent. It also keeps the gut lining healthy and intact. She says they are

the most numerous inhabitants of the stomach and intestines and are also the

most common bacteria in most commercial probiotics.

2. Bifidobacteria - B. bifidum, B. breve, B. longum, and B. infantis. A

large family of about 30 different members most common in the large

intestine. 90-98% of the probiotics in a healthy baby are from this family.

Second most common bacteria included in commercial probiotics.

3. Saccharomyces boulardii. Discovered in the 20s when a French scientist

noted that the Chinese treated diarrhea with an extract from lychee fruit.

4. Escherichia or E. coli - There are pathogenic members of this family but

there are also a lot of strains that are found in a healthy gut. She says if

you the healthy strains in your gut, this is the best insurance against

being infected by the pathogenic members.

5. Enterococcus Faecium or Streptococcus faecalis - These have been isolated

in human stools. Live in the bowel and control pathogens by producing

hydrogen peroxide.

6. Bacillus subtilis or soil bacteria - Discovered during WWII and used to

protect soldiers from dysentery. Not indigenous to humans. She says in the

process of evolution we have developed a need for this bacteria. Humans used

to consume soil bacteria in large amounts when we were drinking water from

wells and streams. They are very powerful at breaking down putrefactive

microbes. She says probiotics containing soil bacteria are the most

effective probioitcs on the market.

She says most probiotics on the market are not strong enough to have a

therapeutic effect.

She says a good probiotic should have as many strains of different species

of beneficial bateria as possible. A mixture of strains is more beneficial

than one group.

She says a concentration of the members of the three main groups --

Lactobacilli, Bifidobacteria, and Bacillus subtilis -- works best.

She says a good probiotic should contain at least 8 billion of bacterial

cells per gram and the manufacturer should test every batch and should be

prepared to publish the results of the testing.

She also says that GAPS children and adults must stay on a good probiotic

supplement indefinitely.

> I also wonder if she makes recommendations for prospective parents in

> getting ready for

> having children, as that appears to be important in helping to prevent

> these problems.

She recommends the GAPS diet and probitoic and EFA (cod liver oil)

supplementation for prospective parents -- *both* the fathers and the

mothers, as the father's flora impacts the child as well.

> I would expect that she recommends avoiding vaccines

> and antibiotics for children as well, especially if they have signs of

> GAP Syndrome.

Yes she does. She is not anti-vaccine but she does say that only healthy

children with good gut flora can tolerate vaccination (and I imagine this is

a very small population these days!)

She also mentioned a technique to get kids that are picky eaters to

> accept other foods. I doubt that it is a new technique, but I'm

> curious what it is.

>

She says finicky eaters are common with GAPS kids. This is due to the

overload of toxins which causes sensory distortion -- food tastes very

different to them -- as well as the problem that the candida in the gut

craves flour and sugar.

If the child has language problems as many autistic children do, she

recommends using a preferred food (chocolate or chips) as a reward for

eating the good food. You show them the candy or chips and then do not let

them have it until they eat a certain amount of the food they are supposed

to eat. She says you can also use other rewards like a favorite video. She

has you introduce one food at a time.

She says it's easier with kids who have language. The procedure is the same,

only she says you should use homemade desserts (allowed on the diet) as

rewards -- or other things like videos.

She says in the majority of cases children will start liking the food they

didn't like before. I totally agree with this. It's true with adults too!

OK that concludes my book report! I should turn this into a blog post. :-)

Ann Marie

January 24, 2008

--- Ann Marie <inasnit@...> wrote:

> I cured my respiratory allergies (as well as osteo-arthritis and

> chronic sinus infections) by going on an anti-candida diet and

> taking therapeutic doses of probiotics when I was in my

> mid-twenties.

Ann Marie, so far I haven't been very lucky with my " cedar " allergy -

runny nose and itchy eyes from heavy pollen produced by numerous

Mountain Junipers in Central Texas each winter mainly in January.

Last year I didn't have much trouble, so I thought the allergy was

going away, but it was a very mild season on the pollen counts. This

year the cedars had a one-week orgy with very high pollen levels and I

was worse than last year, but still not as bad as I have been in the

past. I've been drinking raw milk/cream for almost two years and

homemade kefir for about a year and a half. So, I keep hoping

At least I haven't caught any colds so far this winter. Before I

changed my diet, I used to get at least one and sometimes two bad

colds by January each winter. I suspect the CLO I take helps with

that too.

> I read somewhere that the yeast is very high in histamine (it may

> have been in the GAPS book and may have been in The Body Ecology

> Diet by Donna Gates, which I am also currently reading).

Yes, apparently many yeasts produce histamine and tyramine.

> > This article is also the first reference that I have seen to

> > birth control pills causing dysbiosis

>

> Yeah, Donna Gates writes about this too in The Body Ecology Diet. It

> is a huge problem because so many women spend years on the pill and

> then have babies -- and pass down the compromised gut flora.

>

> It would certainly explain the monumental rise of we have seen of

> autism, ADD, and allergies (all these kids allergic to peanuts, for

> example) in the past few decades. Young women started taking the

> pill in the 70s and 80s.

That and the large increase in use of antibiotics. It's a shame that

conventional " health care " has not recognized these problems.

Consequently, most people are not even aware of them. This is the

kind of thing that should be taught in school.

> > Can you give us an over-view of the GAPS treatment for children?

> > Seems like I remember reading it's sort of a WAPF-SCD-probiotics

> > blend.

>

> Yes that is basically it. I posted the basics on my blog:

> http://cheeseslave.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/how-to-heal-a-leaky-gut/

>

> She also adamantly discourages vegetarianism. She says lack of

> quality protein from animal sources causes a lack of immunity.

> She recommends homemade yogurt, sauerkraut, kefir, creme fraiche and

> " other homemade fermented foods " .

I see on your blog that she says no gluten and no dairy for healing.

So, guess she means no commercial diary, since she also recommends

homemade yogurt and kefir. I haven't read about lack of quality

animal proteins weakening the immune system - that's interesting.

Does she cite references on that?

> She defines probiotics as:

>

> 1. Lactobacilli - acidophilus, bulgaricus, rhamnosus, plantarum

> salivarius, reuteri, johnsonii, casei, and delbrueskii

>

> 2. Bifidobacteria - bifidum, breve, longum, and infantis

>

> 3. Saccharomyces boulardii

>

> 4. Escherichia or E. coli - healthy strains

>

> 5. Enterococcus faecium or Streptococcus faecalis

>

> 6. Bacillus subtilis or soil bacteria

>

> She says most probiotics on the market are not strong enough to have

> a therapeutic effect.

That's a longer list than what I've seen elsewhere.

> She says a good probiotic should have as many strains of different

> species of beneficial bacteria as possible. A mixture of strains is

> more beneficial than one group.

That certainly makes sense and follows what I have read elsewhere.

> She also says that GAPS children and adults must stay on a good

> probiotic supplement indefinitely.

I assume this would be the " therapeutic " probiotic.

> > I also wonder if she makes recommendations for prospective

> > parents in getting ready for having children

>

> She recommends the GAPS diet and probitoic and EFA (cod liver oil)

> supplementation for prospective parents -- *both* the fathers and

> the mothers, as the father's flora impacts the child as well.

That sounds good for those who may have gut issues, which may be a

vast majority these days, but I'm not sure the strict GAPS diet (no

gluten or dairy) is necessary for those who have healthy gut flora.

> She is not anti-vaccine but she does say that only

> healthy children with good gut flora can tolerate vaccination (and I

> imagine this is a very small population these days!)

Yes, indeed. But I still doubt that most vaccines work well enough

and have low enough risk of side-effects even in healthy people to be

worthwhile.

> > She also mentioned a technique to get kids that are picky eaters

> > to accept other foods. I doubt that it is a new technique, but

> > I'm curious what it is.

>

> She says finicky eaters are common with GAPS kids. This is due to

> the overload of toxins which causes sensory distortion -- food

> tastes very different to them -- as well as the problem that the

> candida in the gut craves flour and sugar.

Yeasts certainly feed on carbohydrates. The theory that they alter

the environment of the host to favor food cravings by the host is an

interesting one but may be difficult to prove. I remember reading

about parasites that apparently stimulate certain behavior in the host

to promote their reproduction cycle, so it may not be too far fetched.

> If the child has language problems as many autistic children do, she

> recommends using a preferred food (chocolate or chips) as a reward

> for eating the good food. You show them the candy or chips and then

> do not let them have it until they eat a certain amount of the food

> they are supposed to eat. She says you can also use other rewards

> like a favorite video. She has you introduce one food at a time.

Hmmm ... I remember not being able to have dessert unless I finished

my dinner as a kid. This has been around a while. But it worked for

me most of the time

> OK that concludes my book report!

Thanks very much!

> I should turn this into a blog post. :-)

Yes you should. Have you had much success in teaching family?

January 24, 2008

> Ann Marie, so far I haven't been very lucky with my " cedar " allergy -

> runny nose and itchy eyes from heavy pollen produced by numerous

> Mountain Junipers in Central Texas each winter mainly in January.

> Last year I didn't have much trouble, so I thought the allergy was

> going away, but it was a very mild season on the pollen counts. This

> year the cedars had a one-week orgy with very high pollen levels and I

> was worse than last year, but still not as bad as I have been in the

> past. I've been drinking raw milk/cream for almost two years and

> homemade kefir for about a year and a half. So, I keep hoping

Have you tried therapeutic grade probiotics?

Where are you in Texas? I grew up there and my extended family is in Dallas.

> >

> > It would certainly explain the monumental rise of we have seen of

> > autism, ADD, and allergies (all these kids allergic to peanuts, for

> > example) in the past few decades. Young women started taking the

> > pill in the 70s and 80s.

>

> That and the large increase in use of antibiotics. It's a shame that

> conventional " health care " has not recognized these problems.

> Consequently, most people are not even aware of them. This is the

> kind of thing that should be taught in school.

Yes, antibiotics too. I was given a lot of antibiotics as a child for

repeated bouts of strep throat. I think that played a very big part in my

gut dysbiosis.

>

> I see on your blog that she says no gluten and no dairy for healing.

> So, guess she means no commercial diary, since she also recommends

> homemade yogurt and kefir. I haven't read about lack of quality

> animal proteins weakening the immune system - that's interesting.

> Does she cite references on that?

Actually all gluten and dairy are verboten in the early stages of the diet.

She recommends introducing fermented dairy first, then eventually other

dairy products.

I'd have to look up the references in the book -- I have not gotten that far

yet but there are a lot of references in the back.

>

> > She also says that GAPS children and adults must stay on a good

> > probiotic supplement indefinitely.

>

> I assume this would be the " therapeutic " probiotic.

Yes

>

> Yes, indeed. But I still doubt that most vaccines work well enough

> and have low enough risk of side-effects even in healthy people to be

> worthwhile.

I agree with you on that. I'm not vaccinating my children (my baby was

vaccinated the first 4 mos. before I knew better).

>

> Thanks very much!

You are welcome!

>

> > I should turn this into a blog post. :-)

>

> Yes you should. Have you had much success in teaching family?

My husband is all for everything I'm doing. He has leaky gut so we are

taking Bio Kult for him. Also giving it to our baby since she is at risk due

to our flora that we passed to her.

My extended family is making some changes. My in-laws are fantastic. They

live in NY and read my blog daily. My mother-in-law supports everything I am

doing. She says she has seen the changes with kids in school -- she works in

public schools. She said there is definitely an increase in autism and ADD

and allergies and she does agree with me as to what most likely caused it.

They are now taking cod liver oil now and buying organic produce. The last

time they came to visit (at Christmas) they demanded to try the raw milk as

soon as they stepped off the plane. They loved it. They went with me to my

local buying club (raw organic foods) and the dairy store where I get the

raw milk products. They tried my kefir and kombucha and beet kvass and loved

it all.

They are now buying kefir and kombucha in NY (my father-in-law has very bad

GERD and he says it helps him). When they come to town in Feb, they want

some kefir grains so they can start making their own.

Ann Marie

January 25, 2008

--- Ann Marie <inasnit@...> wrote:

> Have you tried therapeutic grade probiotics?

The only probiotic supplement that I have tried is Primal Defense. I

couldn't really tell it was doing much so I stopped taking when I

started making kefir about a year and a half ago. I'm not sure if PD

has enough microbes to be considered " therapeutic " - probably not.

Although, I suppose if you take a larger dose it would qualify.

How do you like the Bio-Kult? Can you tell if it's made a difference?

> Where are you in Texas?

Near Austin.

> I was given a lot of antibiotics as a child for repeated bouts

> of strep throat. I think that played a very big part in my

> gut dysbiosis.

I've lived in the Austin area since 1970 when I started at UT. I

didn't get my " cedar " allergy until 1981 and have had it every winter

since. In looking back now, I remember having a terrible sinus

infection after a cold and I think that was in early 1981. It was so

bad that I had excruciating pain on the side of my face, first one

side and then the other and my hearing was affected. All sounds were

distorted and music sounded horrible. I finally went to an ENT and he

gave me an *antibiotic* for the infection. The infection went away

and my hearing returned to normal, although it's not clear if the

antibiotic played a role. In those days I drank 3 or 4 sugary sodas a

day which I'm sure *did* play a role in getting the infection. It was

late December 1981 that I first had a runny nose and itchy eyes when

the cedar pollen started. Maybe it's just coincidence, but I suspect

the antibiotic may have helped to get my cedar allergy started

indirectly by causing dysbiosis. The high levels of sugar in my diet

probably helped to keep the dysbiosis going, even though I was not

overweight in those days (I was 29 in 1981).

> I'm not vaccinating my children (my baby was

> vaccinated the first 4 mos. before I knew better).

I wish I had know about all the problems with vaccines and antibiotics

before my 10 yo daughter was born. Almost all of the vaccines that

she received were loaded with thimerosal and she also had antibiotics

several times when was young. We noticed a change in her personality

after she had a battery of vaccines around age 2 - I think that

included MMR, but I'm not sure. She had symptoms very much like

" selective mutism " which is a mild form of autism. She has outgrown

most of those symptoms now but still has constant nasal allergies and

is on the shy/quiet side (much like I was at her age).

> My extended family is making some changes.

That's great! I started my blog mainly to try and educate my friends

and family although I'm finding that it's a tough sell. Most people

are at least a little interested, but are still brainwashed by all the

conventional health propaganda. It's a real challenge

January 25, 2008

>

> How do you like the Bio-Kult? Can you tell if it's made a difference?

>

We just started on the BioKult a few days ago. We are on the lowest dose (2

per day) which you are supposed to start with the first week. DH and I have

both noticed that our bowels are moving more. He says he can feel something

happening.

I don't have any symptoms to weigh it against since all my symptoms have

cleared up.

However, I can tell you this... last summer my OBGYN put me on the birth

control pill after the baby was born. I started having my old symptoms again

within a month or so. Yeast overgrowth symptoms that I haven't had since my

20s. Most notably, sinus allergies and sores in my nose that would not heal.

I got off the pill after I read that it can cause candida (I didn't know!).

I started taking a probiotic and some Kyolic garlic, and stopped eating

sugar and carbs. I didn't really see a change. A month, maybe two, went by

-- still no change in any of my symptoms.

Meanwhile I ordered ThreeLac online. ThreeLac is similar to BioKult in the

fact that it has multiple strains -- I also think it is more potent than

most other brands (I should look up the numbers).

Within 3 days of taking the ThreeLac, the sores in my nose were gone. My

allergies disappeared within a couple of weeks.

So, that's my personal experience that corroborates what Dr.

-McBride says about most commercial probiotics -- they don't work.

Thy the ThreeLac or the BioKult for a couple of months, and don't eat

anything sweet or starchy -- and see if you allergies clear up.

> I've lived in the Austin area since 1970 when I started at UT. I

I went to UT too! :-)

>

> That's great! I started my blog mainly to try and educate my friends

> and family although I'm finding that it's a tough sell. Most people

> are at least a little interested, but are still brainwashed by all the

> conventional health propaganda. It's a real challenge

>

What is your blog address?

Sometimes people don't want to educate themselves until it is too late.

Others will come around in time.

Ann Marie

January 25, 2008

--- Ann Marie <inasnit@...> wrote:

> We just started on the BioKult a few days ago. We are on the lowest

> dose (2 per day) which you are supposed to start with the first

> week. DH and I have both noticed that our bowels are moving more. He

> says he can feel something happening.

Ann Marie, please keep us posted on the Bio-Kult, maybe do a blog

article on it in a month or two.

> I got off the pill after I read that it can cause candida (I didn't

> know!). I started taking a probiotic and some Kyolic garlic, and

> stopped eating sugar and carbs. I didn't really see a change. A

> month, maybe two, went by -- still no change in any of my symptoms.

> Meanwhile I ordered ThreeLac online. ThreeLac is similar to BioKult

> in the fact that it has multiple strains -- I also think it is more

> potent than most other brands (I should look up the numbers).

> Within 3 days of taking the ThreeLac, the sores in my nose were

> gone. My allergies disappeared within a couple of weeks.

Wow! That's impressive! I wonder if anyone else has tried ThreeLac

and seen such quick results?

> don't eat anything sweet or starchy -- and see if you allergies

> clear up.

I don't eat much in the way of starchy foods. About the only

exception is a bowl of breakfast cereal, mainly for convenience. I

might eat a serving of beans or potatoes once or twice a week and a

sandwich with Alvarado Street sprouted sour dough maybe once a week.

However, for quite some time, I've been eating one grapefruit or

orange most days with dinner, mainly for the vitamin C. The last

several months I added about three or four bananas a week for lunch,

mainly to boost potassium. But each of these fruits has around 10-15

grams of sugars, so I'm thinking of cutting back. I should probably

try Chris's favorite: chinese cabbage (I do like cabbage). It has

both potassium

> I went to UT too! :-)

Hookem horns! At least they won their bowl game this year

> What is your blog address?

It's on my profile.

http://stay-healthy-enjoy-life.blogspot.com

> Sometimes people don't want to educate themselves until it is too

> late.

Yes unfortunately, most people don't think about health until they

have health problems. By then, they are much more difficult to deal with.

> Others will come around in time.

Yeah, and there's always a lucky few who see the light at an early

age. I wish I could have learned what I know now when I took my

nutrition class in college many years ago. They should have taught us

about Weston Price!

Although I have to admit that long ago I read that sugar is bad for

you - but that didn't motivate me to lose my sugar addiction

January 25, 2008

>

> > What is your blog address?

>

> It's on my profile.

> http://stay-healthy-enjoy-life.blogspot.com

>

I have read this blog before! I like it. I'm adding you to my blogroll.

:-) AM

January 25, 2008

I used Primal Defense with good results for my IBD and for awhile if I went

off it I'd feel terrible. Now I don't seem to notice as much of a

difference if I go off it. I also give it to the pets especially if someone

has an illness or problem and it really seems to help.

I haven't tried this others but I will definitely give them a try.

Dawn

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 8:18 AM

Subject: Re: Wise Traditions - GAPS