Re: Vaccinations - it's benefits (if any) & how much is it better/safer since 20

[Guest guest]

--- Vijay Chellathurai <vchell@...> wrote:

> Other than thermisol, what are the other major issues with modern

> Vaccinations, if any?

Vijay, thimerosal is still in some vaccines, including most flu

vaccines given in the U.S. - I checked one flu vaccine label (link

below)and it showed 25 mcg of Hg. Besides thimerosal, there are

several other potentially harmful constituents in vaccines, including

aluminum hydroxide, formaldehyde, foreign animal proteins and DNA, and

MSG.

This link will show you specific details for each vaccine:

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/pack.html

> And are there any vaccinations that are 'worth' considering or

> taking for either children or adults?

I'm not sure the benefits are worth the risk. It's questionable

whether many vaccines even work, but there's plenty of evidence that

they cause harmful effects in many children and adults. If there was

a deadly plague spreading across the country and a proven vaccine was

available - I might take it. But for diseases that cause few or no

fatalities or serious debilities I see little justification -

especially since there appears to be a substantial number of cases

where vaccines have caused harmful effects.

> Also, on another point, out of curiosity, and not knowing the hisory

> of the following: talking about vaccinations, I am curious if anyone

> knows history of Polio in the USA in the 1950's:

> http://www.westonaprice.org/children/vaccinations.html Says in the

> chart that there was a very sharp decline in Polio in the early

> 1950's before the vaccine was founded in 1955. So it seems it just

> got too much better just before the vaccines were founded. So what

> was 'magical' about what happened between around 1950 and 1954, that

> just plummetted the polio cases in USA.? If it was sanitation, what

> exactly was it that happened etc.

The definition of polio was dramatically changed around that time:

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio.htm

============================================

Dr. Bernard Greenberg, a biostatistics expert, was chairman of the

Committee on Evaluation and Standards of the American Public Health

Association during the 1950s. He testified at a panel discussion that

was used as evidence for the congressional hearings on polio vaccine

in 1962. During these hearings he elaborated on the problems

associated with polio statistics and disputed claims for the vaccine's

effectiveness. He attributed the dramatic decline in polio cases to a

change in reporting practices by physicians. Less cases were

identified as polio after the vaccination for very specific reasons.

Testimony.... " Prior to 1954 any physician who reported paralytic

poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of subsidizing

the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in

reporting a communicable disease. The criterion of diagnosis at that

time in most health departments followed the World Health Organization

definition: " Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: signs and symptoms of

nonparalytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or complete

paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations

at least 24 hours apart. " Note that " two examinations at least 24

hours apart " was all that was required. Laboratory confirmation and

presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the criteria

were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the

1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days

after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset.... This

change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new

disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting

paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be

refined. sackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been

distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large

numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic

poliomyelitis. Thus, simply by changes in diagnostic criteria, the

number of paralytic cases was predetermined to decrease in 1955-1957,

whether or not any vaccine was used.

============================================

[Guest guest]

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/charity/whatkind.asp

Katy Brezger

http://to-reverse-diabetes.blogspot.com/

Be a Blessing, Find ways to be someone's Santa Claus all year 'round. May you be

so richly blessed that you will bless others with what overflows from your cup.

" If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they

take, their bodies will soon be in a sorry state as are the souls of those who

live under tyranny. "

~ Jefferson~

Re: Vaccinations - it's benefits (if any) & how much is it

better/safer since 20

--- Vijay Chellathurai <vchell@...> wrote:

> Other than thermisol, what are the other major issues with modern

> Vaccinations, if any?

Vijay, thimerosal is still in some vaccines, including most flu

vaccines given in the U.S. - I checked one flu vaccine label (link

below)and it showed 25 mcg of Hg. Besides thimerosal, there are

several other potentially harmful constituents in vaccines, including

aluminum hydroxide, formaldehyde, foreign animal proteins and DNA, and

MSG.

This link will show you specific details for each vaccine:

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/pack.html

> And are there any vaccinations that are 'worth' considering or

> taking for either children or adults?

I'm not sure the benefits are worth the risk. It's questionable

whether many vaccines even work, but there's plenty of evidence that

they cause harmful effects in many children and adults. If there was

a deadly plague spreading across the country and a proven vaccine was

available - I might take it. But for diseases that cause few or no

fatalities or serious debilities I see little justification -

especially since there appears to be a substantial number of cases

where vaccines have caused harmful effects.

> Also, on another point, out of curiosity, and not knowing the hisory

> of the following: talking about vaccinations, I am curious if anyone

> knows history of Polio in the USA in the 1950's:

> http://www.westonaprice.org/children/vaccinations.html Says in the

> chart that there was a very sharp decline in Polio in the early

> 1950's before the vaccine was founded in 1955. So it seems it just

> got too much better just before the vaccines were founded. So what

> was 'magical' about what happened between around 1950 and 1954, that

> just plummetted the polio cases in USA.? If it was sanitation, what

> exactly was it that happened etc.

The definition of polio was dramatically changed around that time:

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio.htm

============================================

Dr. Bernard Greenberg, a biostatistics expert, was chairman of the

Committee on Evaluation and Standards of the American Public Health

Association during the 1950s. He testified at a panel discussion that

was used as evidence for the congressional hearings on polio vaccine

in 1962. During these hearings he elaborated on the problems

associated with polio statistics and disputed claims for the vaccine's

effectiveness. He attributed the dramatic decline in polio cases to a

change in reporting practices by physicians. Less cases were

identified as polio after the vaccination for very specific reasons.

Testimony.... " Prior to 1954 any physician who reported paralytic

poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of subsidizing

the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in

reporting a communicable disease. The criterion of diagnosis at that

time in most health departments followed the World Health Organization

definition: " Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: signs and symptoms of

nonparalytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or complete

paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations

at least 24 hours apart. " Note that " two examinations at least 24

hours apart " was all that was required. Laboratory confirmation and

presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the criteria

were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the

1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days

after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset.... This

change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new

disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting

paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be

refined. sackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been

distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large

numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic

poliomyelitis. Thus, simply by changes in diagnostic criteria, the

number of paralytic cases was predetermined to decrease in 1955-1957,

whether or not any vaccine was used.

============================================

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6/1231 - Release Date: 1/18/2008

11:55 AM

[Guest guest]

Hi

That was an interesting history of events.. Thanks for sharing that..

Those who do not have this background of info could misinterpret the

meaning of the data on the chart.

But do you think, if there were no vaccines found in the last

century, will we still be having polio, commonly among us today

(hypothetical question)? seems to me like, at least in USA, natural

polio virus infection stopped totally in the 70's/80's. in other

words, Other than vaccines, were there any other factors that helped?

-Vijay

> > Other than thermisol, what are the other major issues with modern

> > Vaccinations, if any?

>

> Vijay, thimerosal is still in some vaccines, including most flu

> vaccines given in the U.S. - I checked one flu vaccine label (link

> below)and it showed 25 mcg of Hg. Besides thimerosal, there are

> several other potentially harmful constituents in vaccines,

including

> aluminum hydroxide, formaldehyde, foreign animal proteins and DNA,

and

> MSG.

>

> This link will show you specific details for each vaccine:

> http://www.whale.to/vaccines/pack.html

>

> > And are there any vaccinations that are 'worth' considering or

> > taking for either children or adults?

>

> I'm not sure the benefits are worth the risk. It's questionable

> whether many vaccines even work, but there's plenty of evidence that

> they cause harmful effects in many children and adults. If there

was

> a deadly plague spreading across the country and a proven vaccine

was

> available - I might take it. But for diseases that cause few or no

> fatalities or serious debilities I see little justification -

> especially since there appears to be a substantial number of cases

> where vaccines have caused harmful effects.

>

> > Also, on another point, out of curiosity, and not knowing the

hisory

> > of the following: talking about vaccinations, I am curious if

anyone

> > knows history of Polio in the USA in the 1950's:

> > http://www.westonaprice.org/children/vaccinations.html Says in

the

> > chart that there was a very sharp decline in Polio in the early

> > 1950's before the vaccine was founded in 1955. So it seems it

just

> > got too much better just before the vaccines were founded. So

what

> > was 'magical' about what happened between around 1950 and 1954,

that

> > just plummetted the polio cases in USA.? If it was sanitation,

what

> > exactly was it that happened etc.

>

> The definition of polio was dramatically changed around that time:

> http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio.htm

> ============================================

> Dr. Bernard Greenberg, a biostatistics expert, was chairman of the

> Committee on Evaluation and Standards of the American Public Health

> Association during the 1950s. He testified at a panel discussion

that

> was used as evidence for the congressional hearings on polio vaccine

> in 1962. During these hearings he elaborated on the problems

> associated with polio statistics and disputed claims for the

vaccine's

> effectiveness. He attributed the dramatic decline in polio cases to

a

> change in reporting practices by physicians. Less cases were

> identified as polio after the vaccination for very specific reasons.

>

> Testimony.... " Prior to 1954 any physician who reported paralytic

> poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of subsidizing

> the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in

> reporting a communicable disease. The criterion of diagnosis at that

> time in most health departments followed the World Health

Organization

> definition: " Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: signs and symptoms of

> nonparalytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or complete

> paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations

> at least 24 hours apart. " Note that " two examinations at least 24

> hours apart " was all that was required. Laboratory confirmation and

> presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the

criteria

> were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the

> 1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days

> after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset.... This

> change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new

> disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting

> paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be

> refined. sackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been

> distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large

> numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic

> poliomyelitis. Thus, simply by changes in diagnostic criteria, the

> number of paralytic cases was predetermined to decrease in 1955-

1957,

> whether or not any vaccine was used.

> ============================================

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- Vijay Chellathurai <vchell@...> wrote:

> But do you think, if there were no vaccines found in the last

> century, will we still be having polio, commonly among us today

> (hypothetical question)? seems to me like, at least in USA, natural

> polio virus infection stopped totally in the 70's/80's. in other

> words, Other than vaccines, were there any other factors that

> helped?

Vijay, that's an interesting question. One theory is that the polio

paralysis symptom was caused vitamin B1 deficiency:

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio2.htm

=============================================

CAUSE OF POLIO 1) Diet: Cooter found that the description of

an acute polio virus infection is almost identical to vitamin B1

deficiency caused damage, Beri Beri. This is commonly caused by

dextrose and alcohol as well as eating white rice.

Klenner, Southern Medicine & Surgery, April, 1951 " ... review[ing] the

findings of McCormick in 50 confirmed cases of poliomyelitis in and

around Toronto, Canada, during the epidemic of 1949... families eating

brown bread who came down with poliomyelitis did not develop

paralysis; whereas in those families eating white bread many of the

children having poliomyelitis did develop paralysis. The point here is

that brown bread has 28 times more vitamin B1 than does white bread.

Obviously, then, the paralysis which complicates acute poliomyelitis

appears to be due to a B1 avitaminosis. " LINK

Dr Sandler in 1949 warned the residents of North Carolina to decrease

consumption of ice cream, soda pop, and artificially sweetened

products in hot weather. The incidence of polio dropped by 90%(20). Dr

McCormick pointed out that the first case of polio was reported in

Vienna one year after roller-mill white flour was first sold there. He

calls polio the form of beri-beri that follows the use of degerminated

flour(2). Another factor is the protection provided by human milk.

Vaccination could not be successfully admintered to breast fed babies.

Dr Starr claimed that " every case of infantile paralysis he had

been able to check up on had been the victim of denatured

(pasteurised) milk " , and his observation that, " a child has never been

known to have infantile paralysis if the nursing mother took fruit

juice in the place of milk and that, similarly, no child was ever

known to have infantile paralysis if fed on fruit juice instead of milk " .

" The milling of wheat destroys 40% of the chromium, 86% of the cobalt,

68% of the copper, 78% of the zinc, and 48% of the molybdenum. By the

time it is completely refined it has lost most of its phosphorus, iron

and riboflavin, as well most fiber. Wheat flour has been plundered of

most of its vitamin E, important oils and amino acids. White bread

also turns to glucose as quick as white sugar (This is the staple diet

of the majority). Enriched and vitamin fortified foods are an

outlandish rip-off...after enrichment white flour has less than half

the calcium, a third the phosphorous and potassium. In one experiment

2/3rds of the rats kept on a 90 day diet of enriched bread died before

the experiment was finished!. The 8 vitamins sprayed on most

" fortified " breakfast cereals represent only a small portion of the

nutrients originally present—not to mention fibre which has been

removed almost entirely " .— Stitt (food scientist).

Dr Melvin Page D.D.S. found that when he was able to get patients to

achieve a calcium level 2 1/2 times that of phosphorus, degenerative

diseases disappeared. The prime agents to cause an imbalance in the

phosphorus calcium ratio are animal products (meat has a 20-1 ratio)

sugar and soft drinks. (The average yearly sugar intake is 110 lbs.

Average soft drink intake in the USA is 1-2 cans. Soft drinks are

highly acidic, about 2.5 pH. It would take 32 glasses of alkaline

water of pH 10 to neutralise one glass of cola.) Dr Hal Higgins D.D.S

states that pasteurised milk will rot your teeth at twice the rate of

sugar. " Pasturised milk is dangerous and destructive. It causes

disease. It has not one redeeming quality. All it does is mask spoiled

milk so that big business can make big money " .—H. Diamond, nutritionist.

Dr Gordon , Prof of Epidemiology and Pathology, states that

polio and other viruses can be carried for months, even years with no

effect. According to Dr Dennis Geffen, of every 100 people who

contract polio virus, 90% remain symptomless; 9% only develop slight

signs of the illness such as a stiff neck or sore throat, whilst only

1% develop definite paralysis.

" Viruses and bacteria are not the sole cause of infectious disease,

there is something else " .—Prof Rene Dubois.——Nutrition & toxemia.

=============================================

Another theory suggests that what is now called chronic fatigue

syndrome (CFS) in the U.S or myalgic encephalomyelitis in England is

just a different strain of polio:

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio3.htm#cfs

=============================================

Chronic Fatigue—The New Face of Polio? Just as tuberculosis, once

believed to have been eradicated by modern medicine, has now returned

in more virulent, drug-resistant strains, so may polio be with us

again in a disguised form. We may be mistakenly calling it chronic

fatigue syndrome (U.S.) or myalgic encephalomyelitis (England).

According to s, M.D., editor of Second

Opinion, polio is more common than ever and may actually be caused by

the polio vaccination. This intriguing and potentially electrifying

theory is based on information Dr. s gleaned from several

clinical studies.

Dr. s argues that the Salk and Sabin vaccines, widely

administered to children in the 1950s for poliomyelitis, did not

eliminate polio at all but forced it to change its form. While the

vaccines suppressed the polio virus, the virus was replaced by

genetically similar ones, such as sackie virus which is often found

in elevated levels in chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) patients.

The sackie family of viruses, first isolated in 1948, consists of

29 different strains and is linked to numerous illnesses. When

physicians first began identifying these viruses in the blood of CFS

patients, they failed to discern their connection with polio. The

sustained use of polio vaccines for over 40 years has resulted in " at

least 72 viral strains that can cause polio-like diseases, " says Dr.

s. Before the polio vaccines, there were only three polio

viruses. He notes that he was not the first to point to evidence of

" the changing of polio rather than the elimination of it. " As early as

1934, cases of " atypical " polio were reported in Los Angeles;

" abortive poliomyelitis " was reported in Switzerland in 1939.

Dr. s suggests that the trend towards the emergence of a new

polio—its predominant symptom changing from infantile paralysis to

adult muscle weakness—has rapidly increased since the polio vaccines

were introduced. " We now know that chronic fatigue syndrome is not a

new disease, but simply an `aborted form' of the more serious

paralytic polio, " he states. If Dr. s' speculations prove

correct, the credibility of conventional medicine's mass vaccination

program will be seriously undermined. It is hardly a public health

benefit if a vaccine simply modifies an existing disease, forcing it

to take another form in the next generation of patients. The

indiscriminate use of vaccines may prove to be as counterproductive as

has the overprescribing of antibiotics.

SOURCE— s, M.D., " Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: The

Hidden Polio Epidemic, " Second Opinion 6:8 (August 1996), 1-6.

=============================================

So, it looks like improved nutrition may be the reason polio was

declining prior to the beginning of vaccination.

[Guest guest]

Thanks .. that was very helpful..

if the CFS hypothesis is true what a shame we have brought on

ourselves..

-Vijay

Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that

hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute

you.

5:44

> > But do you think, if there were no vaccines found in the last

> > century, will we still be having polio, commonly among us today

> > (hypothetical question)? seems to me like, at least in USA,

natural

> > polio virus infection stopped totally in the 70's/80's. in other

> > words, Other than vaccines, were there any other factors that

> > helped?

>

> Vijay, that's an interesting question. One theory is that the polio

> paralysis symptom was caused vitamin B1 deficiency:

>

> http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio2.htm

> =============================================

> CAUSE OF POLIO 1) Diet: Cooter found that the description of

> an acute polio virus infection is almost identical to vitamin B1

> deficiency caused damage, Beri Beri. This is commonly caused by

> dextrose and alcohol as well as eating white rice.

>

> Klenner, Southern Medicine & Surgery, April, 1951 " ... review[ing]

the

> findings of McCormick in 50 confirmed cases of poliomyelitis in and

> around Toronto, Canada, during the epidemic of 1949... families

eating

> brown bread who came down with poliomyelitis did not develop

> paralysis; whereas in those families eating white bread many of the

> children having poliomyelitis did develop paralysis. The point here

is

> that brown bread has 28 times more vitamin B1 than does white bread.

> Obviously, then, the paralysis which complicates acute poliomyelitis

> appears to be due to a B1 avitaminosis. " LINK

>

> Dr Sandler in 1949 warned the residents of North Carolina to

decrease

> consumption of ice cream, soda pop, and artificially sweetened

> products in hot weather. The incidence of polio dropped by 90%(20).

Dr

> McCormick pointed out that the first case of polio was reported in

> Vienna one year after roller-mill white flour was first sold there.

He

> calls polio the form of beri-beri that follows the use of

degerminated

> flour(2). Another factor is the protection provided by human milk.

> Vaccination could not be successfully admintered to breast fed

babies.

> Dr Starr claimed that " every case of infantile paralysis he

had

> been able to check up on had been the victim of denatured

> (pasteurised) milk " , and his observation that, " a child has never

been

> known to have infantile paralysis if the nursing mother took fruit

> juice in the place of milk and that, similarly, no child was ever

> known to have infantile paralysis if fed on fruit juice instead of

milk " .

>

> " The milling of wheat destroys 40% of the chromium, 86% of the

cobalt,

> 68% of the copper, 78% of the zinc, and 48% of the molybdenum. By

the

> time it is completely refined it has lost most of its phosphorus,

iron

> and riboflavin, as well most fiber. Wheat flour has been plundered

of

> most of its vitamin E, important oils and amino acids. White bread

> also turns to glucose as quick as white sugar (This is the staple

diet

> of the majority). Enriched and vitamin fortified foods are an

> outlandish rip-off...after enrichment white flour has less than half

> the calcium, a third the phosphorous and potassium. In one

experiment

> 2/3rds of the rats kept on a 90 day diet of enriched bread died

before

> the experiment was finished!. The 8 vitamins sprayed on most

> " fortified " breakfast cereals represent only a small portion of the

> nutrients originally present—not to mention fibre which has been

> removed almost entirely " .— Stitt (food scientist).

>

> Dr Melvin Page D.D.S. found that when he was able to get patients to

> achieve a calcium level 2 1/2 times that of phosphorus, degenerative

> diseases disappeared. The prime agents to cause an imbalance in the

> phosphorus calcium ratio are animal products (meat has a 20-1 ratio)

> sugar and soft drinks. (The average yearly sugar intake is 110 lbs.

> Average soft drink intake in the USA is 1-2 cans. Soft drinks are

> highly acidic, about 2.5 pH. It would take 32 glasses of alkaline

> water of pH 10 to neutralise one glass of cola.) Dr Hal Higgins

D.D.S

> states that pasteurised milk will rot your teeth at twice the rate

of

> sugar. " Pasturised milk is dangerous and destructive. It causes

> disease. It has not one redeeming quality. All it does is mask

spoiled

> milk so that big business can make big money " .—H. Diamond,

nutritionist.

>

> Dr Gordon , Prof of Epidemiology and Pathology, states that

> polio and other viruses can be carried for months, even years with

no

> effect. According to Dr Dennis Geffen, of every 100 people who

> contract polio virus, 90% remain symptomless; 9% only develop slight

> signs of the illness such as a stiff neck or sore throat, whilst

only

> 1% develop definite paralysis.

>

> " Viruses and bacteria are not the sole cause of infectious disease,

> there is something else " .—Prof Rene Dubois.——Nutrition & toxemia.

> =============================================

>

>

> Another theory suggests that what is now called chronic fatigue

> syndrome (CFS) in the U.S or myalgic encephalomyelitis in England is

> just a different strain of polio:

>

> http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio3.htm#cfs

> =============================================

> Chronic Fatigue—The New Face of Polio? Just as tuberculosis, once

> believed to have been eradicated by modern medicine, has now

returned

> in more virulent, drug-resistant strains, so may polio be with us

> again in a disguised form. We may be mistakenly calling it chronic

> fatigue syndrome (U.S.) or myalgic encephalomyelitis (England).

> According to s, M.D., editor of Second

> Opinion, polio is more common than ever and may actually be caused

by

> the polio vaccination. This intriguing and potentially electrifying

> theory is based on information Dr. s gleaned from several

> clinical studies.

>

> Dr. s argues that the Salk and Sabin vaccines, widely

> administered to children in the 1950s for poliomyelitis, did not

> eliminate polio at all but forced it to change its form. While the

> vaccines suppressed the polio virus, the virus was replaced by

> genetically similar ones, such as sackie virus which is often

found

> in elevated levels in chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) patients.

>

> The sackie family of viruses, first isolated in 1948, consists of

> 29 different strains and is linked to numerous illnesses. When

> physicians first began identifying these viruses in the blood of CFS

> patients, they failed to discern their connection with polio. The

> sustained use of polio vaccines for over 40 years has resulted

in " at

> least 72 viral strains that can cause polio-like diseases, " says Dr.

> s. Before the polio vaccines, there were only three polio

> viruses. He notes that he was not the first to point to evidence of

> " the changing of polio rather than the elimination of it. " As early

as

> 1934, cases of " atypical " polio were reported in Los Angeles;

> " abortive poliomyelitis " was reported in Switzerland in 1939.

>

> Dr. s suggests that the trend towards the emergence of a new

> polio—its predominant symptom changing from infantile paralysis to

> adult muscle weakness—has rapidly increased since the polio vaccines

> were introduced. " We now know that chronic fatigue syndrome is not a

> new disease, but simply an `aborted form' of the more serious

> paralytic polio, " he states. If Dr. s' speculations prove

> correct, the credibility of conventional medicine's mass vaccination

> program will be seriously undermined. It is hardly a public health

> benefit if a vaccine simply modifies an existing disease, forcing it

> to take another form in the next generation of patients. The

> indiscriminate use of vaccines may prove to be as counterproductive

as

> has the overprescribing of antibiotics.

>

> SOURCE— s, M.D., " Chronic Fatigue Syndrome:

The

> Hidden Polio Epidemic, " Second Opinion 6:8 (August 1996), 1-6.

> =============================================

>

>

> So, it looks like improved nutrition may be the reason polio was

> declining prior to the beginning of vaccination.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I see a lot of talk on the natural pet lists I am on, especially the

anti-vaccine pet list, about vaccines causing chronic illnesses because of

the way they subjugate the acute illnesses.

So the CFS isn't surprising to me at all but makes perfect sense and it is

believed by many of the natural/holistic community that each vaccine

triggers some type of chronic disease.

The theory is that is how they create immunity to the acute illness though

the immunity is spotty at best. They cause a chronic state of " mild " disease

that never goes away.

We try to avoid all vaccines here and it's scary now that I have a child

what the government may try to force on us. The fiasco in land where

they were threatening parents with jail if they didn't get chicken pox

vaccines for their kids. a totally unnecessary vaccine as it's usually a

pretty mild illness. I had it as a child, was miserable for awhile then

over it and never got it again.

At the hospital I couldn't rest because I was constantly watching them with

my son to make sure they didn't vaccinate him for Hep B. It's blood born,

you get it from sharing needles or unprotected sex. The vaccine is only

rated as effective for 7 years so why on EARTH is it mandatory for newborns?

I have an autoimmune disorder and I told them flat out that he could have it

too and that any vaccination could kill him or cause a serious reaction and

that I strictly forbid it. They didn't give me any trouble with it,

surprisingly and my doctor was fine with it too.

A website and organization i find very helpful is the National Vaccine

Information Center. http://www.nvic.org/

They have lots of information, articles and a great newsletter that keeps me

up to date with current events that are vaccine related. Also they have a

state by state listing of laws on exemptions.

Dawn

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Vijay Chellathurai

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 6:58 PM

Subject: Re: Vaccinations - it's benefits (if any) & how much is it

better/safer since 20

Thanks .. that was very helpful..

if the CFS hypothesis is true what a shame we have brought on

ourselves..

-Vijay

Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that

hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute

you.

5:44

> > But do you think, if there were no vaccines found in the last

> > century, will we still be having polio, commonly among us today

> > (hypothetical question)? seems to me like, at least in USA,

natural

> > polio virus infection stopped totally in the 70's/80's. in other

> > words, Other than vaccines, were there any other factors that

> > helped?

>

> Vijay, that's an interesting question. One theory is that the polio

> paralysis symptom was caused vitamin B1 deficiency:

>

> http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio2.htm

> =============================================

> CAUSE OF POLIO 1) Diet: Cooter found that the description of

> an acute polio virus infection is almost identical to vitamin B1

> deficiency caused damage, Beri Beri. This is commonly caused by

> dextrose and alcohol as well as eating white rice.

>

> Klenner, Southern Medicine & Surgery, April, 1951 " ... review[ing]

the

> findings of McCormick in 50 confirmed cases of poliomyelitis in and

> around Toronto, Canada, during the epidemic of 1949... families

eating

> brown bread who came down with poliomyelitis did not develop

> paralysis; whereas in those families eating white bread many of the

> children having poliomyelitis did develop paralysis. The point here

is

> that brown bread has 28 times more vitamin B1 than does white bread.

> Obviously, then, the paralysis which complicates acute poliomyelitis

> appears to be due to a B1 avitaminosis. " LINK

>

> Dr Sandler in 1949 warned the residents of North Carolina to

decrease

> consumption of ice cream, soda pop, and artificially sweetened

> products in hot weather. The incidence of polio dropped by 90%(20).

Dr

> McCormick pointed out that the first case of polio was reported in

> Vienna one year after roller-mill white flour was first sold there.

He

> calls polio the form of beri-beri that follows the use of

degerminated

> flour(2). Another factor is the protection provided by human milk.

> Vaccination could not be successfully admintered to breast fed

babies.

> Dr Starr claimed that " every case of infantile paralysis he

had

> been able to check up on had been the victim of denatured

> (pasteurised) milk " , and his observation that, " a child has never

been

> known to have infantile paralysis if the nursing mother took fruit

> juice in the place of milk and that, similarly, no child was ever

> known to have infantile paralysis if fed on fruit juice instead of

milk " .

>

> " The milling of wheat destroys 40% of the chromium, 86% of the

cobalt,

> 68% of the copper, 78% of the zinc, and 48% of the molybdenum. By

the

> time it is completely refined it has lost most of its phosphorus,

iron

> and riboflavin, as well most fiber. Wheat flour has been plundered

of

> most of its vitamin E, important oils and amino acids. White bread

> also turns to glucose as quick as white sugar (This is the staple

diet

> of the majority). Enriched and vitamin fortified foods are an

> outlandish rip-off...after enrichment white flour has less than half

> the calcium, a third the phosphorous and potassium. In one

experiment

> 2/3rds of the rats kept on a 90 day diet of enriched bread died

before

> the experiment was finished!. The 8 vitamins sprayed on most

> " fortified " breakfast cereals represent only a small portion of the

> nutrients originally present-not to mention fibre which has been

> removed almost entirely " .- Stitt (food scientist).

>

> Dr Melvin Page D.D.S. found that when he was able to get patients to

> achieve a calcium level 2 1/2 times that of phosphorus, degenerative

> diseases disappeared. The prime agents to cause an imbalance in the

> phosphorus calcium ratio are animal products (meat has a 20-1 ratio)

> sugar and soft drinks. (The average yearly sugar intake is 110 lbs.

> Average soft drink intake in the USA is 1-2 cans. Soft drinks are

> highly acidic, about 2.5 pH. It would take 32 glasses of alkaline

> water of pH 10 to neutralise one glass of cola.) Dr Hal Higgins

D.D.S

> states that pasteurised milk will rot your teeth at twice the rate

of

> sugar. " Pasturised milk is dangerous and destructive. It causes

> disease. It has not one redeeming quality. All it does is mask

spoiled

> milk so that big business can make big money " .-H. Diamond,

nutritionist.

>

> Dr Gordon , Prof of Epidemiology and Pathology, states that

> polio and other viruses can be carried for months, even years with

no

> effect. According to Dr Dennis Geffen, of every 100 people who

> contract polio virus, 90% remain symptomless; 9% only develop slight

> signs of the illness such as a stiff neck or sore throat, whilst

only

> 1% develop definite paralysis.

>

> " Viruses and bacteria are not the sole cause of infectious disease,

> there is something else " .-Prof Rene Dubois.--Nutrition & toxemia.

> =============================================

>

>

> Another theory suggests that what is now called chronic fatigue

> syndrome (CFS) in the U.S or myalgic encephalomyelitis in England is

> just a different strain of polio:

>

> http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio3.htm#cfs

> =============================================

> Chronic Fatigue-The New Face of Polio? Just as tuberculosis, once

> believed to have been eradicated by modern medicine, has now

returned

> in more virulent, drug-resistant strains, so may polio be with us

> again in a disguised form. We may be mistakenly calling it chronic

> fatigue syndrome (U.S.) or myalgic encephalomyelitis (England).

> According to s, M.D., editor of Second

> Opinion, polio is more common than ever and may actually be caused

by

> the polio vaccination. This intriguing and potentially electrifying

> theory is based on information Dr. s gleaned from several

> clinical studies.

>

> Dr. s argues that the Salk and Sabin vaccines, widely

> administered to children in the 1950s for poliomyelitis, did not

> eliminate polio at all but forced it to change its form. While the

> vaccines suppressed the polio virus, the virus was replaced by

> genetically similar ones, such as sackie virus which is often

found

> in elevated levels in chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) patients.

>

> The sackie family of viruses, first isolated in 1948, consists of

> 29 different strains and is linked to numerous illnesses. When

> physicians first began identifying these viruses in the blood of CFS

> patients, they failed to discern their connection with polio. The

> sustained use of polio vaccines for over 40 years has resulted

in " at

> least 72 viral strains that can cause polio-like diseases, " says Dr.

> s. Before the polio vaccines, there were only three polio

> viruses. He notes that he was not the first to point to evidence of

> " the changing of polio rather than the elimination of it. " As early

as

> 1934, cases of " atypical " polio were reported in Los Angeles;

> " abortive poliomyelitis " was reported in Switzerland in 1939.

>

> Dr. s suggests that the trend towards the emergence of a new

> polio-its predominant symptom changing from infantile paralysis to

> adult muscle weakness-has rapidly increased since the polio vaccines

> were introduced. " We now know that chronic fatigue syndrome is not a

> new disease, but simply an `aborted form' of the more serious

> paralytic polio, " he states. If Dr. s' speculations prove

> correct, the credibility of conventional medicine's mass vaccination

> program will be seriously undermined. It is hardly a public health

> benefit if a vaccine simply modifies an existing disease, forcing it

> to take another form in the next generation of patients. The

> indiscriminate use of vaccines may prove to be as counterproductive

as

> has the overprescribing of antibiotics.

>

> SOURCE- s, M.D., " Chronic Fatigue Syndrome:

The

> Hidden Polio Epidemic, " Second Opinion 6:8 (August 1996), 1-6.

> =============================================

>

>

> So, it looks like improved nutrition may be the reason polio was

> declining prior to the beginning of vaccination.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

RE: Polio - it's spread by contact with contaminated human feces, so

as sanitation improved the threat of polio disappeared. No need for

a vaccine unless you're particularly careless and work in the sewer

industry, maybe. In the 1950's there was a huge economic boom and

the funds were available to greatly improve the quality of life

including sanitation.

> > > Other than thermisol, what are the other major issues with

modern

> > > Vaccinations, if any?

> >

> > Vijay, thimerosal is still in some vaccines, including most flu

> > vaccines given in the U.S. - I checked one flu vaccine label (link

> > below)and it showed 25 mcg of Hg. Besides thimerosal, there are

> > several other potentially harmful constituents in vaccines,

> including

> > aluminum hydroxide, formaldehyde, foreign animal proteins and

DNA,

> and

> > MSG.

> >

> > This link will show you specific details for each vaccine:

> > http://www.whale.to/vaccines/pack.html

> >

> > > And are there any vaccinations that are 'worth' considering or

> > > taking for either children or adults?

> >

> > I'm not sure the benefits are worth the risk. It's questionable

> > whether many vaccines even work, but there's plenty of evidence

that

> > they cause harmful effects in many children and adults. If there

> was

> > a deadly plague spreading across the country and a proven vaccine

> was

> > available - I might take it. But for diseases that cause few or

no

> > fatalities or serious debilities I see little justification -

> > especially since there appears to be a substantial number of cases

> > where vaccines have caused harmful effects.

> >

> > > Also, on another point, out of curiosity, and not knowing the

> hisory

> > > of the following: talking about vaccinations, I am curious if

> anyone

> > > knows history of Polio in the USA in the 1950's:

> > > http://www.westonaprice.org/children/vaccinations.html Says in

> the

> > > chart that there was a very sharp decline in Polio in the early

> > > 1950's before the vaccine was founded in 1955. So it seems it

> just

> > > got too much better just before the vaccines were founded. So

> what

> > > was 'magical' about what happened between around 1950 and 1954,

> that

> > > just plummetted the polio cases in USA.? If it was sanitation,

> what

> > > exactly was it that happened etc.

> >

> > The definition of polio was dramatically changed around that time:

> > http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio.htm

> > ============================================

> > Dr. Bernard Greenberg, a biostatistics expert, was chairman of the

> > Committee on Evaluation and Standards of the American Public

Health

> > Association during the 1950s. He testified at a panel discussion

> that

> > was used as evidence for the congressional hearings on polio

vaccine

> > in 1962. During these hearings he elaborated on the problems

> > associated with polio statistics and disputed claims for the

> vaccine's

> > effectiveness. He attributed the dramatic decline in polio cases

to

> a

> > change in reporting practices by physicians. Less cases were

> > identified as polio after the vaccination for very specific

reasons.

> >

> > Testimony.... " Prior to 1954 any physician who reported paralytic

> > poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of

subsidizing

> > the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in

> > reporting a communicable disease. The criterion of diagnosis at

that

> > time in most health departments followed the World Health

> Organization

> > definition: " Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: signs and symptoms of

> > nonparalytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or

complete

> > paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two

examinations

> > at least 24 hours apart. " Note that " two examinations at least 24

> > hours apart " was all that was required. Laboratory confirmation

and

> > presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the

> criteria

> > were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the

> > 1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days

> > after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset....

This

> > change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new

> > disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting

> > paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be

> > refined. sackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have

been

> > distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large

> > numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic

> > poliomyelitis. Thus, simply by changes in diagnostic criteria, the

> > number of paralytic cases was predetermined to decrease in 1955-

> 1957,

> > whether or not any vaccine was used.

> > ============================================

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

--- jen <jennyksargent@...> wrote:

> Tetanus is still in the soil and its a disease that can kill or

> seriously impair. Pertussis is still around again can cause damage.

> We recently had a mumps epidemic here. Measles. I know someone who

> cannot move the right side of his body from brain damage caused by

> that disease lets see he would be about 50 now. My aunt died of

> polio but we bout have that one wiped out. diphtheria I havn't heard

> of any cases except in africa and southeast Asia.

>

> Don't know about you but I hate being sick.

Jen, how many people in mumps and measles outbreaks had been

vaccinated? Most kids get MMR when very young - so there shouldn't be

outbreaks if it really worked. Tetanus is scary, but the threat is

quite small - mainly from deep puncture wounds that don't bleed,

especially if it occurs in an unclean environment. These types of

wounds are relatively rare, so it might make more sense to go in for

treatment if you get such a wound rather than exposing millions of

people to potentially harmful effects from taking a vaccine that *may*

confer immunity for a few years and most likely will never be needed.

That's the problem with vaccines - the risk of harmful effects from

the vaccine may be higher than the risk of harmful effects from the

disease. And to top it off, many vaccines don't work very well to

begin with. My wife's 81 yo father got a flu vaccine this year but

still caught a full-blown case of the flu.

It's also possible that if you have dysbiosis and your immune function

is poor to begin with, as is the case for a majority of people these

days, the risk is much higher that vaccines will cause adverse

reactions that potentially will last a lifetime.

I agree with Lana that our immune systems need occasional challenges

to help keep them working properly. I think the best strategy is to

keep your immune system as healthy as possible and that means eating a

healthy diet and getting plenty of probiotic foods.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I really liked " Raising A Vaccine Free Child " for a discussion of the

history of vaccination and an analysis of all the major vaccinations.

I originally picked it up intending to use it as a guide for treating

my children if they should contract any of the childhood illnesses

that they are not vaccinated for--my children at 3 have received no

vaccinations--but the book ended up being a great reminder to me for

why i choose not to vaccinate. Also, it gave me a renewed interest in

using homeopathy to treat illness. I think the book will help answer

your questions below, but of course, it is just one perspective on a

complex issue.

>

> A question on Vaccinations today..

>

> Was thermisol the only major problem in the Vaccinations?

>

> The US government banned thermisol in their Vaccinations since 2001,

> I was told by a doctor recently. So his point is, that Vaccinations

> are 'totally' safe, since no more of the mercury concern.

>

> assuming this is true, do you know how strictly has this been held up?

>

> Other than thermisol, what are the other major issues with modern

> Vaccinations, if any?

>

> And are there any vaccinations that are 'worth' considering or taking

> for either children or adults? (For example, even if polio vaccines

> are very effective in preventing the disease, at least in the USA,

> they say there is no more natural polio cases since the 1970's.=> so

> regardless of whether we have an issue with vaccinations or not,it

> does not seem that polio vaccines are 'worth' it, at least in usa.am

> i thinking right?)

>

> Also, on another point, out of curiosity, and not knowing the hisory

> of the following: talking about vaccinations, I am curious if anyone

> knows history of Polio in the USA in the 1950's:

> http://www.westonaprice.org/children/vaccinations.html Says in the

> chart that there was a very sharp decline in Polio in the early

> 1950's before the vaccine was founded in 1955. So it seems it just

> got too much better just before the vaccines were founded. So what

> was 'magical' about what happened between around 1950 and 1954, that

> just plummetted the polio cases in USA.? If it was sanitation, what

> exactly was it that happened etc.

>

> Thanks for any insights shared..

> Vijay

>

> " So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you,

> for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. " - Lord Jesus in

> 7:12

>