Re: calories in/out [How much was she paid to WRITE THIS CARP??? HFCS]

[Guest guest]

Connie,

> No comment on the differences demonstrated between men and women with

> the same exercise?

I'm sorry I thought it was apparent as an extension from the rest of

my comments. The control men kept their baseline weight, and the

simplest explanation is that they were not eating a caloric excess.

However, it is silly to make a comparison to control groups for the

purpose of this discussion. Any study, vis-a-vis a discussion of the

calories-in-calories-out theory, that does not make an attempt to

calculate or at least estimate the caloric deficit is worthless.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Any study, vis-a-vis a discussion of the

> calories-in-calories-out theory, that does not make an attempt to

> calculate or at least estimate the caloric deficit is worthless.

>

> Chris

Well this was a continuation of the question whether men and women

respond equally to calorie deltas.

From the study itself (not abstract), this was an exercise-only

study, but the participants started with the same exercise amount,

measured in calories, ended with the same exercise amount, yet men

and women responded differently.

The exercise delta here is (2000 cals / wk - 500 cals/wk).

http://tinyurl.com/44phdd

" Participants were sedentary and did not exceed 500 calories of

physical activity per week, as measured by a physical activity recall

questionnaire. "

" The targeted minimum energy equivalent of exercise was approximately

400 cal per session (approximately 2000 cal/wk), and this was

gradually achieved during the first 6 months and then maintained for

the remainder of the study. "

" This study was designed to evaluate the effects of a verified amount

of exercise. "

[Guest guest]

Connie,

>> Any study, vis-a-vis a discussion of the

>> calories-in-calories-out theory, that does not make an attempt to

>> calculate or at least estimate the caloric deficit is worthless.

> Well this was a continuation of the question whether men and women

> respond equally to calorie deltas.

And that is a rather silly question to answer without taking into

account the caloric deficit. No one would suggest that men who are at

a maintenance level of calories will respond the same to an increase

in energy expenditure as women eating a caloric surplus.

> From the study itself (not abstract), this was an exercise-only

> study, but the participants started with the same exercise amount,

> measured in calories, ended with the same exercise amount, yet men

> and women responded differently.

Which is a worthless finding of a silly study because the caloric

deficit/surplus was not controlled for.

> The exercise delta here is (2000 cals / wk - 500 cals/wk).

>

> http://tinyurl.com/44phdd

>

> " Participants were sedentary and did not exceed 500 calories of

> physical activity per week, as measured by a physical activity recall

> questionnaire. "

>

> " The targeted minimum energy equivalent of exercise was approximately

> 400 cal per session (approximately 2000 cal/wk), and this was

> gradually achieved during the first 6 months and then maintained for

> the remainder of the study. "

>

> " This study was designed to evaluate the effects of a verified amount

> of exercise. "

Right, but 1) this is a pretty silly effect to evaluate and completely

misses the whole crux of the weight loss issue and 2) cannot

reasonably be construed as responsive to any of the points that have

been raised in this thread since noone suggested that any verified

amount of exercise should lead to weight loss in anyone.

Chris

[Guest guest]

,

> I think you're right about incrementally adjusting diet and/or

> exercise to lose weight (when you want to lose weight). It doesn't

> take much of a deficit to lose 10 or 20 pounds over a year or two.

How many folks you think will stick to a program with that slow of a

weight loss, if weight loss is their goal?

> However, lowering the calories can be a challenge if it leaves you

> hungry.

Which is one of the advantages of intermittent fasting, you can create

a caloric deficit without having to deal with hunger pains as a

constant challenge. And I'm not talking about a daily caloric deficit

but rather one that is measured week by week.

> I had that problem big-time when I tried to do a low-fat diet

> many years ago. So, I think ultimately, satiety with an ideal calorie

> intake for the individual level of exercise and metabolism is the real

> key.

Yes which you can do with intermittent fasting, even if you have a

low-fat dietary approach.

--

" How do they become one flesh? " As if she were gold receiving purest

gold, the woman receives the man's seed with rich pleasure, and within

her it is nourished, cherished, and refined. It is mingled with her

own substance and she then returns it as a child! "

St. Chrysostom

[Guest guest]

Connie

> Although one of the outcomes of the Stephanson study was that the two

> people who lived low carb for a year, increased their BMR. I thought

> that was mildly interesting.

But didn't they only control the diet? Or did they stay at the hospital as well?

> In practical use, the calorie-counting approach is so flawed for some

> of us that those of us for whom the numbers were not designed, have

> to come up with our own income-and-outgo strategy anyway.

Personally, I have always hated calorie counting. Really. The only

time I have ever done it was when I did the Atkins Fat Flush. Other

than that, I have better things to do with my life :-)

Over the last several years I have grown tired of the macro-nutrient

analysis as well. I just want to eat, be healthy, stay slim, and not

have such an enormous amount of my thought and energy applied to

nutrition. I am a purist WAP wise when eating on my own. That is

settled in my life. I absolutely love working out or doing outdoor

physical activities. That too is a settled matter. I find nutrition

and related matters exciting and stimulating, but calorie counting and

now macro-nutrient analysis beyond a certain baseline level has always

rubbed me wrong. It seems to me it is not really addressing some basic

issues, and I just can't imagine this has ever been the way of healthy

groups like the ones Price studied.

Ultimately what delivered me from all of this was intermittent

fasting. Now I have always been a champion of fasting, and have seen

it do some great things in my life and the life of others, but that

was the longer term variety, and not easily incorporated into a

regular routine.

But in the last couple of years I have become more and more aware of

the power and benefit of intermittent fasting as a regular part of our

nutrition cycle, all quite by accident.

In retrospect it all seems so simple. Want to lose weight? Well

instead of trying to figure out what to feed yourself, don't eat. Want

to lose fat? Don't eat. Want to conquer insulin resistance? Don't eat.

Want more mental clarity? Don't eat. Want to break certain addictions?

Don't eat.

Of course not to the point where you are ravenously hungry or

starving, but as a planned daily (16/8 hr fast feed), or a bi-weekly

or weekly (24 hr fast) discipline. The first is directed at athletes

and their unique nutritional requirements and can be used for both

building muscle and/or cutting up/getting lean. The second is for the

every day folk whose aspirations are simply being lean and healthy. In

either case both approaches are relatively simple and refreshing.

After the first few tries you do adapt, hunger is not really an issue,

and you can pretty much eat what you want. In this instance, less is

more. The fasting phase gives you the overall caloric deficit you need

(less), and the feasting phase provides you with the physical and

psychological satiety you need that other approaches generally do not

provide (more).

Even better, you don't have to worry about post workout drinks :-) If

the scale and the mirror give you a sense of satisfaction then in the

end that is all really matters.

--

" How do they become one flesh? " As if she were gold receiving purest

gold, the woman receives the man's seed with rich pleasure, and within

her it is nourished, cherished, and refined. It is mingled with her

own substance and she then returns it as a child! "

St. Chrysostom

[Guest guest]

,

> The big difficulty is figuring out what that maintenance calorie

> intake is. If you try to drop too much too fast, you may go into

> " starvation mode " . I'd guess that makes you feel more tired than

> normal since your body is conserving energy, which is also not good.

That depends on how you lower them.

> It's also difficult to make sure you've got that 100 calorie deficit

> every day. Gaining weight is so easy and losing so hard

I think for many people, trying to make such a close approximation

with estimated numbers (including the food you are tracking) leaves

little margin for error, and ultimately leads to frustration and

giving up.

> That's my biggest problem lately as I think I have deficits on some

> days but overages on others, so I net nothing. My weight crept up

> about 5 or 6 pounds last year after initially losing about 30 pounds

> over the year or two before that. My weight has been pretty stable

> this year so far. I still want to drop 20 pounds from my present

> weight, however, from 220 to 200 pounds.

Lift. Stop eating. <weg>

--

" How do they become one flesh? " As if she were gold receiving purest

gold, the woman receives the man's seed with rich pleasure, and within

her it is nourished, cherished, and refined. It is mingled with her

own substance and she then returns it as a child! "

St. Chrysostom

[Guest guest]

--- <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> How many folks you think will stick to a program with that slow of a

> weight loss, if weight loss is their goal?

, my goal is to lose about 20 pounds and I don't care if it

takes a year or two. However, if there's a way to do it faster

without leaving myself hungry, I might try it.

> Which is one of the advantages of intermittent fasting, you can

> create a caloric deficit without having to deal with hunger pains as

> a constant challenge. And I'm not talking about a daily caloric

> deficit but rather one that is measured week by week.

I recently heard about fast-5, where you eat all you want within a

5-hour period and then fast the remaining 19 hours per day. For me,

that would mean basically cutting out one meal a day - most likely

dinner, which is often my smallest meal anyway.

Last Thursday, I was off from work and went to an all-you-can-eat

buffet for lunch with family. I ate no food before lunch and did my

walk and jog in the morning, which helped to curb my appetite. I was

hungry for about an hour before we went to eat. I stuffed myself at

the buffet, probably eating around 1,500 to 2,000 calories, or

possibly more. I didn't get hungry at all until bed time and ate

nothing else that day - although I did have a couple of beers that

evening - for dessert I guess

I could probably do that every day, but two normal meals and cutting

out a third would probably be easier and more likely to produce a

calorie deficit.

[Guest guest]

,

Have you thought about using coconut oil to lose weight.

Sally Fallon and Dr. Enig.have a book

Called Eat Fat to Lose Fat,

The Healthy alternative to Trans Fats

<http://www.amazon

com/Eat-Fat-Lose-Healthy-Alternative/dp/0452285666/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8 & s=boo

s & qid=1214089678 & sr=1-2>

She has a person on a traditional diet except eating

coconut oil 20 minutes before a meal. Since coconut is

a MCT oil this seems to work well.

From:

, my goal is to lose about 20 pounds and I don't care if it

takes a year or two. However, if there's a way to do it faster

without leaving myself hungry, I might try it.

[Guest guest]

--- <sguava@...> wrote:

> Have you thought about using coconut oil to lose weight.

> Sally Fallon and Dr. Enig.have a book

> Called Eat Fat to Lose Fat,

, yes, I've read EFLF and I have used coconut oil, but not

regularly. I found that I like it with the ground lamb that I cook.

I don't much like it plain.

Lately, I've been using it mainly as a deodorant though I'm not

sure how much is absorbed by the body that way. I also use it to seal

my iron skillet after cooking.

I do eat a fairly high fat diet, with around 50-60% of calories from

fat and most of that fat is from dairy and meat.