Re: Re: Fructose & Metabolic Syndrom

[Guest guest]

Vijay,

> I think it will benefit to differentiate between HFCS/man-made Fructose

> and real God-made Fructose itself. Also, I would guess most of the

> fructose in store foods today are chemically made, and not the pure

> ones from fruits.

> Fruits are all fructose (plus many other vitamins/minerals/enzymes).

> Real Honey is largely fructose. Agave (desert plant) nectar which is a

> safe sweetner is 90% fructose. In moderation, I would think these

> unprocessed versions of foods should be fine.

I think it would be of benefit if anyone had evidence that they act

differently. Until such evidence is produced, it would make more

sense to consider differences between HFCS and fruit due to the

protective factors in fruit.

God didn't make honey any more than he made HFCS, did he? It is bees

who actually make the honey and man who extracts it and prepares it

for human use. Of course God made the bees but he made man too.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 6/17/08, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote:

> Yeah, I think they say that about giving up all supplements because

> some need to be broken down by the body or processed, etc. I'd guess

> that it wouldn't apply to thyroid supplement. When I fasted I didn't

> give up everything - sometimes took cod liver oil, sometimes vitamin

> C and also some enzyme supplements. Maybe it applies more to water

> fasting, for the purists. If you're taking in raw juices or milk,

> it's not like your digestive system is really completely shut down

> anyways!

Fasting depresses thyroid hormone levels to conserve energy. I'm not

positive, but I think going against this by supplementing thyroid

hormone might be reversing the effects of fasting. On the other hand,

I feel great if I have a little coffee when I fast (otherwise it takes

a while to adjust), and while i have no idea if that's great for

detoxification it's probably great for weight loss!

> RE: the baby - if you're breastfeeding fasting is not recommended; if

> you're just worried about energy levels then raw milk fasting is

> fine. You don't really get tired. Even on juice fasting I had more

> energy than normal, not less.

I think stuffing yourself and getting fat would be much more

appropriate to pregnancy and lactation. And of course, suppressing

detoxification.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 6/18/08, Boris the Chorus <grooverocknyc@...> wrote:

> stop this nonsense about carbs at night!

If you want us to stop so much you'll use an explanation point, why

don't you reference a study showing that carbs at night has some

adverse effect on some important biological endpoint that carbs in the

morning does not have. For example, show us a study that people who

eat carbs in the morning gain muscle more easily, lose fat more

easily, perform better at work, are in a better mood, or some other

such meaningful endpoint. I think that would get us to stop the

nonsense.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 6/18/08, cbrown2008 <cbrown2008@...> wrote:

>> No carbs at night if you've had diabetic issues - sorry!

>>

>> Boris

>

> Here's a study. I wouldn't do it either Boris and I'm not diabetic,

> just overfat.

>

> (abstract) http://tinyurl.com/6me7cf

Well there you have it, Boris. Thanks Connie. Now we'll all stop

bantering for everyone to allow their 53-hour continuous glucose

infusions to pass through the night.

So, correction everyone: start your glucose infusion in the morning,

and break it up into 16-hour shifts.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Connie,

> If you suspect your liver and adrenals are hurtin, and like I said I

> know what that means, then small meals will help them take it easy.

> Did you ever try that eating every 3 hours thing? It feels pretty

> good with low carb, it doesn't have to be high carb low fat like the

> old bodybuilders used to do.

Old bodybuilders? You mean the 80's? The generation (50's and 60's)

before typically were not high carbers..

--

" How do they become one flesh? " As if she were gold receiving purest

gold, the woman receives the man's seed with rich pleasure, and within

her it is nourished, cherished, and refined. It is mingled with her

own substance and she then returns it as a child! "

St. Chrysostom

[Guest guest]

Chris

> Fasting depresses thyroid hormone levels to conserve energy. I'm not

> positive, but I think going against this by supplementing thyroid

> hormone might be reversing the effects of fasting. On the other hand,

> I feel great if I have a little coffee when I fast (otherwise it takes

> a while to adjust), and while i have no idea if that's great for

> detoxification it's probably great for weight loss!

Super for weight loss, super for hunger suppression, and eventually

once you adjust you don't really need it. My guess is that in small

amounts it would have minimal impact on detoxification.

--

" How do they become one flesh? " As if she were gold receiving purest

gold, the woman receives the man's seed with rich pleasure, and within

her it is nourished, cherished, and refined. It is mingled with her

own substance and she then returns it as a child! "

St. Chrysostom

[Guest guest]

Boris,

> Carbs induce insulin output, which counteracts growth hormone.

To what extent? If I took this line of reasoning seriously I wouldn't

have a pre or post workout meal, since the rise in insulin will blunt

GH which exercise increases. Clearly, the insulin effect on GH is not

very significant for most folks.

--

" How do they become one flesh? " As if she were gold receiving purest

gold, the woman receives the man's seed with rich pleasure, and within

her it is nourished, cherished, and refined. It is mingled with her

own substance and she then returns it as a child! "

St. Chrysostom

[Guest guest]

Boris,

> Also, there's an emotional component to healing and thriving... something

> that's not discussed here (technically perhaps not considered

> " " ?).

Although it is not the focus of this list, discussions about other

aspects of healing and thriving come up from time to time.

--

" How do they become one flesh? " As if she were gold receiving purest

gold, the woman receives the man's seed with rich pleasure, and within

her it is nourished, cherished, and refined. It is mingled with her

own substance and she then returns it as a child! "

St. Chrysostom

[Guest guest]

Oh that's excellent news! =)

Opt for cold brewing?

Dawn

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 2:19 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Fructose & Metabolic Syndrom

Chris

> Fasting depresses thyroid hormone levels to conserve energy. I'm not

> positive, but I think going against this by supplementing thyroid

> hormone might be reversing the effects of fasting. On the other hand,

> I feel great if I have a little coffee when I fast (otherwise it takes

> a while to adjust), and while i have no idea if that's great for

> detoxification it's probably great for weight loss!

Super for weight loss, super for hunger suppression, and eventually

once you adjust you don't really need it. My guess is that in small

amounts it would have minimal impact on detoxification.

--

" How do they become one flesh? " As if she were gold receiving purest

gold, the woman receives the man's seed with rich pleasure, and within

her it is nourished, cherished, and refined. It is mingled with her

own substance and she then returns it as a child! "

St. Chrysostom

[Guest guest]

On 6/20/08, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

>> Carbs induce insulin output, which counteracts growth hormone.

> To what extent? If I took this line of reasoning seriously I wouldn't

> have a pre or post workout meal, since the rise in insulin will blunt

> GH which exercise increases. Clearly, the insulin effect on GH is not

> very significant for most folks.

The line of reasoning is not legitimate. No one cares what their GH

levels are except insofar as it has physiological significance. This

is like eating some way to do something to your cholesterol levels.

You only do that if you believe they are a determinant of heart

disease, and you do it because you care about heart disease, not

cholesterol.

So the question is whether eating a post-workout carb-inclusive meal

increases or decreases anabolic activity. Whether it leads to better

or worse muscle gains, better or worse fat loss, better or worse

control of blood sugar, better or worse mood, etc.

These studies, of course, are done on people all the time. So what

should be cited is in vivo human evidence of hard endpoints. Then,

the biochemistry can come in later to explain what is observed.

Insulin is anabolic in itself, and carbs stimulate thyroid hormone

production, which burns fat and is also anabolic. So, you can argue

the biochem both ways. The question is, what happens to the actual

person and the things they actually care about.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Masterjohn

<chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> On 6/20/08, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

>

>>> Carbs induce insulin output, which counteracts growth hormone.

>

>> To what extent? If I took this line of reasoning seriously I wouldn't

>> have a pre or post workout meal, since the rise in insulin will blunt

>> GH which exercise increases. Clearly, the insulin effect on GH is not

>> very significant for most folks.

>

> The line of reasoning is not legitimate. No one cares what their GH

> levels are except insofar as it has physiological significance.

Right. People do care, especially lifters. The more academically

oriented ones in my circles talk about it all the time. They think,

rightly or wrongly, that GH has physiological significance, and then

in the same breath say watch out for insulin because it blunts GH, but

then do something to create an insulin spike to further their goals as

you noted (but I snipped) in your response that insulin is anabolic.

I just think it points out the problem of trying to " optimize "

everything, which leads to statements that don't make much sense to me

nor matter much in the real world.

>. The question is, what happens to the actual

> person and the things they actually care about.

Right.

--

" How do they become one flesh? " As if she were gold receiving purest

gold, the woman receives the man's seed with rich pleasure, and within

her it is nourished, cherished, and refined. It is mingled with her

own substance and she then returns it as a child! "

St. Chrysostom