Re: Answering a post that you haven't even read.

[Guest guest]

Shouldn't this have the header 'off-topic' or something? If you want to get into

who is folowing the rules, we might start with that.

As far as poor arguments, well, I'll let your original post stand for itself.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: " crayfishfeed " <crayfishfeed@...>

>

> > >>>> >>> Whether someone is born a homosexual, whether this is

> determined

> > >> > either at

> > >>>> >>> birth or later on, or whether it changes during a person¹s

> > >> > lifetime is really

> > >>>> >>> irrelevant.

> > >> >

> > >> > It's not irrelevant. Did you even read my post at all? It's all

> > >> > relevant b/c when I was looking to understand myself I had to

> look at

> > >> > everything,and we all want to understand ourselves.

> > >

> > > You post was crap. No, I did stop reading.

> > >

> I think this is disqualifying behavior from being on here. I would

> welcome an intelligent opposing side but you are an out of control

> person who answers posts they haven't even read. I feel cheated out of

> having a real opposing view. Why are you on here if you don't want

> other points of view? People post in good faith that other people

> coming on here actually want to exchange ideas. This isn't a podium

> for a monologue of your views. Why don't you get your own website for

> that? Even though your arguments are over-emotional and poorly made, I

> had given you the benefit of the doubt that you were coming from a

> good place that was against ostracism of someone based on a sexual

> behavior but after posting what I did and seeing you call it crap, I

> know you are just an angry person and you've proven you don't have

> chat group integrity.

>

>

> > >>>> >>>

> > >>>>>> >>>>> God

> > >>>>>> >>>>> bent over backwards to give us free will.

> > >>>> >>>

> > >>>> >>> That¹s a simply hilariious image....

> > >> > Yes it is funny... that you would try to see that in there but it's

> > >> > not hilarious b/c you're image in your head doesn't even make sense

> > >> > directionally speaking.

> > >> >

> > >>>> >>>

> > >>>>>> >>>>> When I study the anatomy of a penis and a vagina, I mean

> > >>>>>> >>>>> all the nuances, I think " Come on these two were made

> for each

> > >> > other! "

> > >>>> >>>

> > >>>> >>> This is compelling.

> > >> >

> > >> > Isn't it? It's the elephant in the room.

> > >

> > > Well, the problem is that there isn¹t an elephant in the room.

> > >

> > > I¹m done.

> > >> >

> > >>>>>> >>>>> It's not bigotry that makes me think that. I would be

> the first

> > >> > person

> > >>>>>> >>>>> to raise hell over someone choosing a path and getting

> judged and

> > >>>>>> >>>>> treated in an ostracized fashion by self-righteous

> people but I

> > >>>>>> >>>>> wouldn't march in a parade for them either b/c I have my

> > >> > beliefs that

> > >>>>>> >>>>> I have to be true to.

> > >>>> >>>

> > >>>> >>> So do many people...including some pretty reprehensible ones.

> > >> >

> > >> > Yes, or even dumb ones in addition to reprehensible. The word bigot

> > >> > means a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or

> her own

> > >> > opinions and prejudices. It's not always used in terms of race

> and you

> > >> > have thrown this word around but in reading the posts, you are the

> > >> > most intolerant person in the whole discussion b/c you are

> coming from

> > >> > the same self-righteous place that you condemn in people who

> condemn

> > >> > homosexuality. It's clear in your defensiveness and outrage and

> using

> > >> > of the word bigot.

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >>>>>> >>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm sure I'm going to get flak for this but

> , there's

> > >> > no way you

> > >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> can equate homosexuality...a behavior, with

> race!!!!

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a scientific issue, and I didn't want to

> bring it up

> > >> > because I

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> was sure it would somehow get mired up with the

> religious and

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> political issues, but, nevertheless:

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The concordance rate for homosexuality between

> identical

> > >> > twins is far

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> below 100%, varying between 20 adn 52% depending on the

> > >> > study. (See

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> note 1.) Although this rate is higher than that for

> > >> > fraternal twins,

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> thus clearly showing a genetic association, it

> makes it quite

> > >> > clear

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> that there is some factor or factors in addition to the

> > >> > following:

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> genes, nutritional and hormonal exposure in utero,

> > >> > nutritional and

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> hormonal exposure during lactation. Differences in

> life

> > >> > experience

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> are probably the least likely to be a factor

> between two

> > >> > identicial

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> twins than any other two people, though they may

> play a role.

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This strongly argues for some element of choice, or

> > >> > spirituality, or

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> some type of unknown component that is not

> determinative.

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The heritability estaimate for homosexuality is

> less than

> > >> > that for

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> personality traits such as cognitive ability,

> extroversion,

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> agreeableness, openness, aggression and

> traditionalism (See

> > >> > note 2,

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> same article as 1).

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The concordance rate between identicial twins for

> being black

> > >> > is 100%,

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> for being female is 100%, and so on. There is

> obviously a

> > >> > fundamental

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> difference between the hardwiring of race and sex

> and the

> > partial

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> predispositioning of sexual orientation.

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> =============

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. http://www.narth.com/docs/nothardwired.html

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dr. succinctly reviewed the research on

> homosexuality

> > and

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> offers the following: " An area of particularly

> strong public

> > >> > interest

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> is the genetic basis of homosexuality. Evidence

> from twin

> > >> > studies does

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> in fact support the conclusion that heritable

> factors play a

> > >> > role in

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> male homosexuality. However, the likelihood that the

> > >> > identical twin of

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> a homosexual male will also be gay is about 20%

> (compared

> > >> > with 2-4

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> percent of males in the general population),

> indicating that

> > >> > sexual

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> orientation is genetically influenced but not

> hardwired by

> > >> > DNA, and

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> that whatever genes are involved represent

> predispositions, not

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> predeterminations. "

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [snip]

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps the best example of this media

> misrepresentation was

> > >> > the two

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> studies conducted by J. . In 's

> first

> > >> > study, he

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> reported a concordance rate of 52%. In a second

> study,

> > >> > reported

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> a concordance of 20-37.5%, depending on how loosely

> you define

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> homosexuality. The first study received a great deal of

> > >> > press. The

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> second study received almost no media attention.

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ==========

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. The heritability estimates for personality

> traits were

> > >> > varied:

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> General Cognitive Ability (50%), Extroversion (54%),

> > >> > Agreeableness

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> (42%), Conscientiousness (49%), Neuroticism (48%),

> Openness

> > >> > (57%),

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aggression (38%) and Traditionalism (54%).

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ===========

> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> > >>> >>

> > >>> >>

> > >>> >>

> > >>> >>