Answering a post that you haven't even read.

[Guest guest]

> >>>> >>> Whether someone is born a homosexual, whether this is

determined

> >> > either at

> >>>> >>> birth or later on, or whether it changes during a person¹s

> >> > lifetime is really

> >>>> >>> irrelevant.

> >> >

> >> > It's not irrelevant. Did you even read my post at all? It's all

> >> > relevant b/c when I was looking to understand myself I had to

look at

> >> > everything,and we all want to understand ourselves.

> >

> > You post was crap. No, I did stop reading.

> >

I think this is disqualifying behavior from being on here. I would

welcome an intelligent opposing side but you are an out of control

person who answers posts they haven't even read. I feel cheated out of

having a real opposing view. Why are you on here if you don't want

other points of view? People post in good faith that other people

coming on here actually want to exchange ideas. This isn't a podium

for a monologue of your views. Why don't you get your own website for

that? Even though your arguments are over-emotional and poorly made, I

had given you the benefit of the doubt that you were coming from a

good place that was against ostracism of someone based on a sexual

behavior but after posting what I did and seeing you call it crap, I

know you are just an angry person and you've proven you don't have

chat group integrity.

> >>>> >>>

> >>>>>> >>>>> God

> >>>>>> >>>>> bent over backwards to give us free will.

> >>>> >>>

> >>>> >>> That¹s a simply hilariious image....

> >> > Yes it is funny... that you would try to see that in there but it's

> >> > not hilarious b/c you're image in your head doesn't even make sense

> >> > directionally speaking.

> >> >

> >>>> >>>

> >>>>>> >>>>> When I study the anatomy of a penis and a vagina, I mean

> >>>>>> >>>>> all the nuances, I think " Come on these two were made

for each

> >> > other! "

> >>>> >>>

> >>>> >>> This is compelling.

> >> >

> >> > Isn't it? It's the elephant in the room.

> >

> > Well, the problem is that there isn¹t an elephant in the room.

> >

> > I¹m done.

> >> >

> >>>>>> >>>>> It's not bigotry that makes me think that. I would be

the first

> >> > person

> >>>>>> >>>>> to raise hell over someone choosing a path and getting

judged and

> >>>>>> >>>>> treated in an ostracized fashion by self-righteous

people but I

> >>>>>> >>>>> wouldn't march in a parade for them either b/c I have my

> >> > beliefs that

> >>>>>> >>>>> I have to be true to.

> >>>> >>>

> >>>> >>> So do many people...including some pretty reprehensible ones.

> >> >

> >> > Yes, or even dumb ones in addition to reprehensible. The word bigot

> >> > means a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or

her own

> >> > opinions and prejudices. It's not always used in terms of race

and you

> >> > have thrown this word around but in reading the posts, you are the

> >> > most intolerant person in the whole discussion b/c you are

coming from

> >> > the same self-righteous place that you condemn in people who

condemn

> >> > homosexuality. It's clear in your defensiveness and outrage and

using

> >> > of the word bigot.

> >> >

> >> >

> >>>>>> >>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm sure I'm going to get flak for this but

, there's

> >> > no way you

> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> can equate homosexuality...a behavior, with

race!!!!

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a scientific issue, and I didn't want to

bring it up

> >> > because I

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> was sure it would somehow get mired up with the

religious and

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> political issues, but, nevertheless:

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The concordance rate for homosexuality between

identical

> >> > twins is far

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> below 100%, varying between 20 adn 52% depending on the

> >> > study. (See

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> note 1.) Although this rate is higher than that for

> >> > fraternal twins,

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> thus clearly showing a genetic association, it

makes it quite

> >> > clear

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> that there is some factor or factors in addition to the

> >> > following:

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> genes, nutritional and hormonal exposure in utero,

> >> > nutritional and

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> hormonal exposure during lactation. Differences in

life

> >> > experience

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> are probably the least likely to be a factor

between two

> >> > identicial

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> twins than any other two people, though they may

play a role.

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This strongly argues for some element of choice, or

> >> > spirituality, or

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> some type of unknown component that is not

determinative.

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The heritability estaimate for homosexuality is

less than

> >> > that for

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> personality traits such as cognitive ability,

extroversion,

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> agreeableness, openness, aggression and

traditionalism (See

> >> > note 2,

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> same article as 1).

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The concordance rate between identicial twins for

being black

> >> > is 100%,

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> for being female is 100%, and so on. There is

obviously a

> >> > fundamental

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> difference between the hardwiring of race and sex

and the

> partial

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> predispositioning of sexual orientation.

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> =============

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. http://www.narth.com/docs/nothardwired.html

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dr. succinctly reviewed the research on

homosexuality

> and

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> offers the following: " An area of particularly

strong public

> >> > interest

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> is the genetic basis of homosexuality. Evidence

from twin

> >> > studies does

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> in fact support the conclusion that heritable

factors play a

> >> > role in

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> male homosexuality. However, the likelihood that the

> >> > identical twin of

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> a homosexual male will also be gay is about 20%

(compared

> >> > with 2-4

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> percent of males in the general population),

indicating that

> >> > sexual

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> orientation is genetically influenced but not

hardwired by

> >> > DNA, and

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> that whatever genes are involved represent

predispositions, not

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> predeterminations. "

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [snip]

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps the best example of this media

misrepresentation was

> >> > the two

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> studies conducted by J. . In 's

first

> >> > study, he

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> reported a concordance rate of 52%. In a second

study,

> >> > reported

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> a concordance of 20-37.5%, depending on how loosely

you define

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> homosexuality. The first study received a great deal of

> >> > press. The

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> second study received almost no media attention.

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ==========

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. The heritability estimates for personality

traits were

> >> > varied:

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> General Cognitive Ability (50%), Extroversion (54%),

> >> > Agreeableness

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> (42%), Conscientiousness (49%), Neuroticism (48%),

Openness

> >> > (57%),

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aggression (38%) and Traditionalism (54%).

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ===========

> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

> >>> >>

> >>> >>

> >>> >>

> >>> >>