Re: Re: POLITICS changed to avoiding the State Economy

[Guest guest]

> I was attending the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia before and

> during the first Gulf War.

Hi Desh!

I was at UPenn (South Asian Studies major) during Apartheid, not long before

you were there. 7 of us occupied the President's office in order to get our

divestment message across to the Board of Trustees. Our group included 2

South Africans (1 black and 1 Indian), a Ghanian, a Zimbabwean, the Mayor's

son ( Goode Jr.), another undergrad and myself. We were facing

possible expulsion, which would've meant deportation and likely imprisonment

or worse for the South Africans, but we had two good U. Penn lawyers

defending our case and we won. I was SOOOOOO politically naïve at the time

that I wouldn't have noticed if some " suits " were taking my photo, although

they wouldn't need to since the Philadelphia Inquirer published a photo of

some of us at the window during our occupation :-)

I guess it's not inconceivable that a file was started on me way back then.

If not, I'm pretty sure there is one now as big brother gets bigger and

bigger. <sardonic grin>

But I'm very happy to know that subsequent generations of U Penn students

fought for real causes like you and your friends :-)

Hey, wanna make an FBI suit really angry in 1991- take his

> picture while he takes yours

That is so of you! LOL

Some friends who worked on campaigns for

> the homeless had their phones tapped. It was really scary to be 20 years

> old and hit by big brother that hard, and it was certainly a

> consideration when I chose to return to Kaintuck.

Do you think that big brother is not in Kaintuck?

Suze

[Guest guest]

>

> I was attending the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia

> before and

> during the first Gulf War. Philly being the home of the Center for

> Conscientious Objection, and full of Quakers, the action there was

> pretty

> wild. I was heavily involved with protesting the war, and we all

> had FBI

> files. Hey, wanna make an FBI suit really angry in 1991- take his

Those of us who came from elsewhere and who have stayed and became

citizens by default have FBI files. Did you know that they take

fingerprints and want photos almost every time there is an " interview " ?

-jennifer

(itching to go " home " for good but doesn't know how to get there)

[Guest guest]

,

> I'm also a WAPF member. Maybe all of us are being watched. Homeland

> security! Maybe it should be re-named Big Business Security!

The Feds have been collecting files on US citizens for sooooooooo long

it is not even funny. It goes back many administrations and for all

sorts of crazy reasons. And then there is all the licensing in various

fields that require fingerprints and background checks....and then

there is immigration and then there is.......

and the beat goes on...

--

There's nothing like visiting a foreign country like China to get an

appreciation of what it's like to live under an authoritarian regime.

I was reminded of this when I arrived home and found that the TSA had

rifled through my baggage.

- Tabarrok

[Guest guest]

,

> Those of us who came from elsewhere and who have stayed and became

> citizens by default have FBI files. Did you know that they take

> fingerprints and want photos almost every time there is an " interview " ?

I think everyone after a certain age has had that done to them. When

I was in elementary school, there was a day where everyone in school

had to come in and get fingerprinted. I don't remember exactly where

it went, but I'm pretty sure it was FBI. Even if it was something

more local, which I don't think it was, I'd be surprised if a national

database hasn't long ago centralized all the local information.

Chris

[Guest guest]

,

> Those of us who came from elsewhere and who have stayed and became

> citizens by default have FBI files. Did you know that they take

> fingerprints and want photos almost every time there is an " interview " ?

>

> -jennifer

> (itching to go " home " for good but doesn't know how to get there)

Where is home?

Also a place to note that anyone who has parents or grandparents from

a European Union country can get citizenship very easily and very

inexpensively. For anyone who qualifies I would do that immediately

for several reasons:

1. It gives you the right to live and work anywhere in the European Union.

2. It gives you the ability to carry and show something other than a

US passport when traveling (i.e. you can get a second passport from

your new country)

3. And most importantly it gives you the ability to get out of this

country if need be because our gov't via Homeland Security is now

making noise about travel as a privilege and not an innate right for

US citizens.

And the beat goes on....

--

There's nothing like visiting a foreign country like China to get an

appreciation of what it's like to live under an authoritarian regime.

I was reminded of this when I arrived home and found that the TSA had

rifled through my baggage.

- Tabarrok

[Guest guest]

What was curious at the time was that fingerprints were deemed to

expire. My colleagues and I wondered what the FBI knew about

fingerprints that the rest of us (especially those of us in genetics)

didn't know... Last I heard, my home country to the north wasn't

regularly taking fingerprints though they seem to follow US trends,

albeit with a 5-year lag or so.

-j

[Guest guest]

>

> Where is home?

>

Canada - which seems to follow trends in the US, with about a 5-yr

time lag. Been looking halfheartedly for jobs in my field but it's

hard to justify a move out of my current situation: big expensive,

cutting edge science in a small town (and no teaching duties or

committee work!), with barely any commute, and I have easy access to

raw milk, organic veggies and loads of tasty meaty animals. The few

comparable jobs in Canada are in places like Toronto, Montreal or

Vancouver. Because I'm not willing to prostitute my talents to the

drug companies, I'm stuck at academic places -- so I'd end up with an

extensive commute given the pitiful salaries and the outrageous cost

of living in all those cities.

We're working on getting my son his Canadian papers. Husband isn't a

Canadian (and a high-performance computer guru without a degree so

finding a job for him is even harder) - he's a West Virginian (so

automagically, when things get really bad, we have a good place to

hide out -- with lots of unregistered guns and people who really

distrust and dislike any sort of authority).

-jennifer

[Guest guest]

Desh,

> It is very possible to reduce one's contribution to the state and the

> garbage pile at the same time. Nearly every single thing I own is

> recycled, second-hand or antique.

Unless it is a wine shop or bookstore, I'm not much into shopping but

one great strategy I like is to visit the garage sales, estate sales,

and consignment shops in the most upscale areas of town. It is amazing

what you can pick up for a song and a dance that is very high quality

but has been little or never used.

> I have had friends who refused to pay

> taxes to the American goverment, and live very interesting and rewarding,

> albeit itinerant lives here.

I think the general consensus is that the government thinks you are a

little fish, you can get away with it, but big fish (like Wesley

Snipes and Ray Gabauer) are flirting with disaster and will now be

doing jail time. Ray I think got 20 years and leaves a wife and young

family to fend for themselves (and lost his $2,000,000 a year business

as well).

> The overwhelming majority of my chosen

> community earns some money under the table, and actively, in some small

> way, works against the system.

The underground economy in America is HUGE, and I have never really

known any adult who didn't participate in it one way or another.

> If you don't have the money for gold or silver or your own land,

> bartering organizations are good places to be involved as well.

They can be very good. Silver is also cheap enough that most folks can

get at least a little.

--

There's nothing like visiting a foreign country like China to get an

appreciation of what it's like to live under an authoritarian regime.

I was reminded of this when I arrived home and found that the TSA had

rifled through my baggage.

- Tabarrok

[Guest guest]

,

> Canada -

Interesting. It is where I would like to go initially, probably the

only place I can go long term initially and still make a living (well

maybe Mexico) unless some things I am attempting on the Internet take

off.

> which seems to follow trends in the US, with about a 5-yr

> time lag.

In terms of morphing toward a police state Canada is neck and neck with the US.

Canada's Statist Criminals as Bad as America's

http://snipurl.com/34imp

Still, one of the advantages of dual citizenship (and dual bank

accounts) is that you don't have all your financial and physical eggs

under the thumb of one country. The ability to be able to freely move

around legally is very important in times like this.

> Been looking halfheartedly for jobs in my field but it's

> hard to justify a move out of my current situation: big expensive,

> cutting edge science in a small town (and no teaching duties or

> committee work!), with barely any commute, and I have easy access to

> raw milk, organic veggies and loads of tasty meaty animals. The few

> comparable jobs in Canada are in places like Toronto, Montreal or

> Vancouver. Because I'm not willing to prostitute my talents to the

> drug companies, I'm stuck at academic places -- so I'd end up with an

> extensive commute given the pitiful salaries and the outrageous cost

> of living in all those cities.

I have a friend who lives on Vancouver Island. Expensive like Seattle

but very beautiful.

Here is the skinny though, at least as I see it, and why all of this

is a very individual thing. You can only do what you can do in light

of what you think is ahead. As far as I am concerned, the highest

**political** end is liberty, so if I saw what looked like a police

state coming over the horizon, then you best believe that all the

houses, cars, food, bank accounts, familiar culture, etc., couldn't

keep me in town. I like that stuff for sure, but it is not more

important to me than liberty.

There were lots of people who saw where Germany was headed with the

democratically elected Hitler, but couldn't pull the plug because of

things like you mentioned above. Others saw it, prepared for it, and

just barely got out.

Who knows what lies ahead, but if you really think things are going to

get nasty then you might really want to focus on what you want to do

about it.

> We're working on getting my son his Canadian papers. Husband isn't a

> Canadian (and a high-performance computer guru without a degree so

> finding a job for him is even harder)

Can't he gain citizenship like your son since he is your husband? Or

have the rules changed?

> - he's a West Virginian (so

> automagically, when things get really bad, we have a good place to

> hide out -- with lots of unregistered guns and people who really

> distrust and dislike any sort of authority).

Yup being in a like minded community is very important.

--

There's nothing like visiting a foreign country like China to get an

appreciation of what it's like to live under an authoritarian regime.

I was reminded of this when I arrived home and found that the TSA had

rifled through my baggage.

- Tabarrok

[Guest guest]

On Jul 24, 2008, at 7:55 PM, wrote:

> ,

>

>>

> Can't he gain citizenship like your son since he is your husband? Or

> have the rules changed?

>>

He could, but we'd have to be living there already. With my son, we

can just send in papers - he's a Canadian just because he was born to

me.

-jennifer

[Guest guest]

> The ability to be able to freely move

> around legally is very important in times like this.

Just don't try moving money from Canada to the U.S. Our credit union

(which seems to be morphing more and more into a " real " bank) charges

$67 per check if it is drawn on a non-US bank. My aunt keeps sending

us this stupid $25 check (for the kid), in US funds but from a

Canadian bank (that even has long reaches into the US banking system),

but since 9/11, banking rules have changed and it is brutally

difficult to do anything locally.

-jennifer

[Guest guest]

,

> Just don't try moving money from Canada to the U.S. Our credit union

> (which seems to be morphing more and more into a " real " bank) charges

> $67 per check if it is drawn on a non-US bank.

If you ever get a second citizenship or passport, the **last** thing

you want to do is move money from a US bank account to a foreign

account (or vice versa) unless you absolutely have to do so. Better to

have a bank that does not have a US branch and better to do your best

to keep the transactions private.

The US gov't is making things so hard around the world that most

foreign banks simply do not want to deal with Americans, rather than

jump through all the hoops and legal threats they expose themselves to

(and the bullying from the US gov't) when they take on US customers.

> My aunt keeps sending

> us this stupid $25 check (for the kid), in US funds but from a

> Canadian bank (that even has long reaches into the US banking system),

> but since 9/11, banking rules have changed and it is brutally

> difficult to do anything locally.

It has become brutally difficult for Americans ***around the world***

--

There's nothing like visiting a foreign country like China to get an

appreciation of what it's like to live under an authoritarian regime.

I was reminded of this when I arrived home and found that the TSA had

rifled through my baggage.

- Tabarrok

[Guest guest]

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM, lynchwt <lynchwt@...> wrote:

> I've thought about moving to Canada, too. Isn't all raw milk illegal

> in Canada? This seems to be the main stumbling block to me.

> Bill

No it is not. Check out the www.realmilk.com website for updates.

--

There's nothing like visiting a foreign country like China to get an

appreciation of what it's like to live under an authoritarian regime.

I was reminded of this when I arrived home and found that the TSA had

rifled through my baggage.

- Tabarrok