RE: Re: POLITICS changed to State of the Economy

[Guest guest]

> > I'm not quite clear on whether you are saying that you think Obama

getting

> > elected would make the recession recede or the martial law recede? I

think

> > he's made it clear that he's going to *increase* martial law with his

well

> > funded national civilian Stasi so I assume you mean the recession will

> > progress more slowly under him?

>

> I don't think he's made anything clear about that. As far as I know,

> he made a one or two-sentence statement on this and hasn't elaborated.

> Other folks are embellishing this into " stasi " and " youth brigade "

> and other words he didn't use. As far as I know, he simply said that

> we cannot rely on our military, but need a civilian security source

> that is just as large and just as well-funded.

Here are his words from the horse's mouth:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5128294616187563612

What is the difference between a " national civilian security force " that

Obama calls for and the Stasi (the German Ministry for State Security)? The

Stasi were a national civilian " security " force.

Are there any historical precedences for a national civilian security force

other than the Stasi and the Soviet MGB (Ministry of State Security)?

I do think *may* be going overboard in saying that this force

would inevitably be 16-year-olds with machine guns bossing us around. But I

only think he's going overboard because we don't have enough information yet

that that is what would happen ;-)

>

> Well, I have no idea what that means and it doesn't even make any

> sense. Even if it consists of as many people, what would they need

> all that money for? Are they going to be driving around in tanks and

> fighter jets? What is their function?

That is a good question. Of course a lot of the funding would go toward

their salaries but if it's as well funded as our military then where *would*

the rest of it go? To $10,000 a piece widgets like the current system?

> Finally, is that remotely realistic to implement? Would Congress vote

> to fund it? Probably not.

Could it be authorized by executive order? During martial law perhaps?

Because they are sneaking stuff on us incrementally and it seems like most

Americans are adjusting to the new bizarro world the power elite are

creating for us without much protest, I wouldn't be totally surprised if

many in Congress DID vote to fund it, especially if it were presented to

them in a palatable manner. Or perhaps presented to them at a time of crisis

with not enough time to read the document before voting on it. Most

legislation that is passed isn't even READ completely by Congress so I could

see them voting for yet another bill they hadn't read in full.

>

> Yeah, I think Obama would probably be an economic disaster, worse than

> McCain. Obama has absolute NO plans to shrink our military

> expenditures, but merely divert current Iraq expenditures into

> Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. He will be like W. Bush but

> double.

Oh goody. Then we could look forward to a *19 trillion* dollar gross

national debt. And that might be the least of our worries.

Suze

[Guest guest]

Carol -

It's better than most people out there who either go out to eat constantly

or who rely on packaged foods. I am a strong believer that even a small

effort is better than the greatest intentions.

Nanette

Re: POLITICS changed to State of the Economy

It took me a good two years to convince my husband that buying

precious metals was a good idea. But along the way he said " Just do

what you want with a limited amount of money " . I know it was just to

appease me. So for quite awhile I spent $100 a month.

A good friend of his told him he took all of his money out of the

market and put it in silver - what a shocker for him! That changed

everything. Just keep at it and maybe start small - something is

better than nothing. Unfortunately for us, we are not able to take our

retirement account out unless he is fired or quits his job. What a

system! So we have recently stopped all deposits into it and instead

using that money to purchase metals. What can you do? We're still

luckier than most.

RE: A list of foods to stockpile. I know, I feel like I'm getting in

the Y2K mode also - and what a disaster that was. But, I choose to put

those feelings behind me and look at what the signs are now. I prefer

to be proactive.

I noticed Costco has a rack system for canned goods that was pretty

reasonable. I'm interested to know what others have been doing or are

planning on. I went to Trader Joe's recently and bough 12 jars of

almond butter along with alot of granola, trail mix, dried fruits,

etc. I also buy almond milk in bulk - but I'm sure there's an

expiration date on it - so I can't buy too much at a time. I noticed

recently that Ingles (Georgia) has prices that are comparable to

Trader Joe's on some items. They are also carrying more and more

organic items. Not much of a plan, huh? Carol S.

>

> Have been following this thread with much interest - I have been

trying to

> convince husband to buy silver & gold since February. He's not on

board.

> Many cannot believe or accept the fact (despite all the signs) that

American

> can do anything but flourish. Nevertheless, I am interested in the food

> side of preparations. Anyone care to tell me how exactly they have

> prepared/stockpiled food? Anyone care to post an inventory list of what

> they have accumulated? It would be helpful to me if I had a

checklist of

> sorts - with ideal storage methods. I am a Weston Pricer so I eat that

> way - and buy most of my grains in bulk (50 lb. bags). I have a

family of

> five. We live in the city but my mother lives in the Cumberland

mountains -

> this is what we consider to be our " safe place " if we need to go

someplace.

> But then, what about all our food storages? It's a lot to consider

as the

> economic crisis is occurring now. More people are waking up to the lies

> we've been sold for so long. Anyway, whoever posts with an

inventory - I

> promise not to make a national database of your goods for future use

- lol.

>

> Nanette

[Guest guest]

On 7/22/08, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote:

> Do you have the kind that has a teaser rate but they're actually

> adding the portion of what you should have paid but didn't to the

> principal so you wind up with more to pay off at a higher interest

> rate later? I'd pay that off. We got a book about what to do in an

> unstable economy (forgot the name of it) that predicted the housing

> crash; it said the best thing to do is rent if at all possible and

> not buy until the prices are much lower.

I'm not bashing the book or anything, but anyone who couldn't predict

the housing crash was pretty seriously clueless I think. I mean,

housing bubble --> housing crash. Fed-sponsored boom -->

Fed-sponsored crash. It's all pretty simple.

Of course the clueless folks attribute the whole mess to random

fluctuations in virtue and vice, like predatory lending and so on.

Well " predatory lending " is what happens when you infuse credit into

an economy that is synthesized out of thin air, and there is an excess

of money beyond what can be lent to low-risk borrowers. The spillover

goes into things like credit cards and mortgages given to people with

bad credit history, where the high risk is hedged against by

exorbitant interest rates. The problem is not the virtues and vices

of people but the system and its systematic facilitation of vice.

> That said, I also believe

> that a lot of the mortgages collapsing right now are from speculators

> and real estate investors who are walking away from homes they can't

> sell but never intended to live in - " flippers " . So how much is the

> housing market really in trouble and how much of it is a mass exodus

> of investors from the housing market to futures in oil and grains

> that could make them more money??

I don't understand what the difference is. They are the same thing.

The infusion of credit in the economy falsely signals to the market

that people are saving and witholding in current consumption in order

to consume larger-level goods in the future. Like witholding from

popcorn and dancing now to buy a home in the future. The market

reacts by investing less in small, short-term consumer goods and more

in large long-term consumer goods like houses. Then, it turns out

that in fact consumers haven't saved anything and the interest rates

were not lower because people were saving but lower because the Fed

printed more money out of thin air, so the expectations of investors

were completely wrong that people would buy houses, and thus there are

an excess of houses, and since the prices wind up falling when the

bubble pops, they are no longer profitable investments, so you wind up

with this excess of houses, and investors go into other safer or more

profitable markets.

So the problem is the Fed, the Fed, the Fed. That is the problem.

Abolish it, and kick out the cartel of international bankers that have

stolen our society. And abolish the FEMA camps with crematoriums

while you're at it.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> > FIAT EMPIRE - Why the Federal Reserve Violates the U.S. Constitution

> > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5232639329002339531

>

> Another excellent video (41 minutes):

>

> Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve

> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-466210540567002553 & ei= & hl=en

I'm watching it now and it appears to be a duplicate of the one I posted but

shorter. Either one is outstanding though.

Suze

[Guest guest]

>>> Well it kind of depends on who you listen to. If you listen to

>>> , he's saying get 7 years worth of food and water stored

>>> including dehydrated foods and seeds.

>>

>> That is very close to the advice that North gave for the

>> potential y2k crisis.

>

> The difference is in the nature of the crisis they're warning about.

> I sure hope we see a bank failure instead of whatever is

> envisioning if we have the choice.

Indeed. seems to be envisioning what some folks were envisioning

for y2k and also what a lot of folks were envisioning back in the late

70's early 80's. Short of a worldwide collapse of the division of

labor and a concomitant loss of freedom I just can't see a 7 year

apocalypse.

On the other hand I wasn't absolutely convinced about y2k, but I

thought better safe than sorry so I planned accordingly.

>>> If you're watching Kramer,

>>> he's saying sell all stocks, sell everything, like he's never ever

>>> said before.

>>

>> IMO, the guy is downright kooky.

>>

>>

>

> LOL. Well he was wrong there. But what's really funny is he says

> they're not in trouble; if anything, they'll get taken over. What? I

> would call a company that looks like they're going to get taken over

> in a whole lot of trouble!!!

You think he blew it on Bear Stearns, check out this meltdown.

The guy is a kooky shrill for the Fed as savior status quo.

--

There's nothing like visiting a foreign country like China to get an

appreciation of what it's like to live under an authoritarian regime.

I was reminded of this when I arrived home and found that the TSA had

rifled through my baggage.

- Tabarrok

[Guest guest]

Nanette,

> Have been following this thread with much interest - I have been trying to

> convince husband to buy silver & gold since February. He's not on board.

> Many cannot believe or accept the fact (despite all the signs) that American

> can do anything but flourish.

Yeah that is a tough sell. People by nature usually don't want to hear

bad news and Americans as a whole for a long time have chosen to

remain oblivious to the machinations of their own government and the

resultant problems. Keep in mind too there is an enormous faith in the

political process by most folks, not actively, but rather this idea

that it will all work itself out in the end.

> Nevertheless, I am interested in the food

> side of preparations. Anyone care to tell me how exactly they have

> prepared/stockpiled food? Anyone care to post an inventory list of what

> they have accumulated? It would be helpful to me if I had a checklist of

> sorts - with ideal storage methods. I am a Weston Pricer so I eat that

> way - and buy most of my grains in bulk (50 lb. bags).

While learning techniques for storage of various foodstuffs is

relatively easy, everything else ask you ask about can really only be

determined by you. For example how long do you think you may need to

go on a stored food supply? Three months, three years, seven years?

That will determine your initial approach.

Another thing to be mindful of is creating a system whereby you are

eating what you would normally eat (for the most part) on a daily

basis. There's your checklist. Personally I think buying those long

term food supplies that many companies sell is not only expensive but

a bad idea, because they consist of food you wouldn't normally eat. If

you think it might be necessary to depend on your stored food supply

for more than six months then you probably ought to make provision for

animals like goats and chickens to help meet the nutritional needs of

your family. This is especially true if you have a nutritional issue

with grains (which apparently you don't), since grains are easily

stored for long periods of time.

Something else to consider is who else might come along in a crisis?

You will have to make provision for them as well.

Somethings you should not do: tell others and store your food away

from home. In a crisis you need easy access to your supply. Storing it

away from home makes that impossible, at least if you want it safe

from others.

> I have a family of

> five. We live in the city but my mother lives in the Cumberland mountains -

> this is what we consider to be our " safe place " if we need to go someplace.

> But then, what about all our food storages?

Yup sounds like a logistical problem you need to work out. How far

away is your mother from you? Can you easily get there in a crisis?

Will you have or be able to afford the gas? Does she have any

concerns? Can you store things in unison? Is there a water supply

nearby? If you have your own animals how will you move them, etc. Best

to work these issues out now.

--

There's nothing like visiting a foreign country like China to get an

appreciation of what it's like to live under an authoritarian regime.

I was reminded of this when I arrived home and found that the TSA had

rifled through my baggage.

- Tabarrok

[Guest guest]

Laree,

> " I have a water filter I bought in 1999 that will sterilize water from any

> source, including pools of muddy water off the street. "

>

> Can you give a brand name and what to look for in this kind of water filter?

> I do want to be prepared.

I will have to check as it is currently at my mom's house. I had an

entire article I used to help me in my research that is stored away

somewhere, and I don't really remember the details. If you like you

can email me privately and I will see what I can dig up online.

> Also, what happens to mortgages and our homes during the kind of crisis

> we're talking about here?

Lets see, if you expect a hyperinflation, set aside some gold coins

and you will be able to pay it off at a fraction of the cost, assuming

the holder of your note is still around (and I'm sure someone will be

holding the note). It sucks to be a typical lender in an inflationary

environment. People are paying you the same amount but the individual

dollars are worth less and less.

--

There's nothing like visiting a foreign country like China to get an

appreciation of what it's like to live under an authoritarian regime.

I was reminded of this when I arrived home and found that the TSA had

rifled through my baggage.

- Tabarrok