Re: Avoiding Fish Oils

[Guest guest]

Nanette,

> He discourages use of fish oils and instead encourage use of PEAs (Parent

> Essential Fatty Acids).

I agree with him that fish oils should not be used abundantly, but I

think his promotion of the completely non-essential " parent " fatty

acids is wrong, personally.

> Has the WAPF reviewed this book? I am very curious. An ayurvedic doctor

> that I occasionally see who promotes WAPF is reading this book and says it

> is filling in some of the blanks for him.

I don't think they've reviewed the book per se, but Enig did a

Know Your Fats column on his theory recently.

> I decreased my fish oils about a year ago to about once or twice a month -

> I was listening to my body/instinct. I am anxious to get this book to see

> if it answers some valuable questions.

I would use high-vitamin cod liver oil at a half teaspoon 1-3x per

week, or daily in times where fat-soluble vitamins from other sources

are lacking, or maybe 1-2 tsp/day during pregnancy and lactation. I

wouldn't use " fish oil, " i.e. fish body oils rather than liver oils,

at all.

Chris

[Guest guest]

See the link I just sent. Peskin claims that the PEAs ARE essential and

that the others are derivative oils that your body can make as it needs them

if you have the " parent " oils. Please help me see what is wrong with his

theory.

Can you tell me in what issue commented on his theory so I can read it?

(If you know or can put your hands on it - if not don't sweat it - I'll find

it.)

Also, thanks for the recommendation. All the talk about depressed immunity

though has bothered me. I think the Vit A & D is important, though.

Nanette

Re: Avoiding Fish Oils

Nanette,

> He discourages use of fish oils and instead encourage use of PEAs

(Parent

> Essential Fatty Acids).

I agree with him that fish oils should not be used abundantly, but I

think his promotion of the completely non-essential " parent " fatty

acids is wrong, personally.

> Has the WAPF reviewed this book? I am very curious. An ayurvedic doctor

> that I occasionally see who promotes WAPF is reading this book and says

it

> is filling in some of the blanks for him.

I don't think they've reviewed the book per se, but Enig did a

Know Your Fats column on his theory recently.

> I decreased my fish oils about a year ago to about once or twice a

month -

> I was listening to my body/instinct. I am anxious to get this book to

see

> if it answers some valuable questions.

I would use high-vitamin cod liver oil at a half teaspoon 1-3x per

week, or daily in times where fat-soluble vitamins from other sources

are lacking, or maybe 1-2 tsp/day during pregnancy and lactation. I

wouldn't use " fish oil, " i.e. fish body oils rather than liver oils,

at all.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Here is more explanation - - what do you think?

http://www.brianpeskin.com/PEOs.pdf

Nanette L.

Re: CLO

I was taking Nordic Naturals, but I just got my dr ron's clo/ high vit

butter combo today. So i'm switching in the morning.

>

> What kind of CLO do you use?

>

[Guest guest]

Nanette,

> Here is more explanation - - what do you think?

>

> http://www.brianpeskin.com/PEOs.pdf

Someone posted this recently and I made a response to it, so you

should be able to find it in the recent archives on the group

site.

Briefly, the " parent " fatty acids are not essential for two reasons:

first, they can in fact be synthesized in the body from other fatty

acids; second and most importantly, there is no evidence that we or

any other mammals need them.

The only fatty acid that is rigorously demonstrated to be essential is

arachidonic acid, while DHA is, though less rigorously demonstrated,

almost certainly essential.

Substantial amounts of fish oil are bad for two reasons: first, they

contain EPA, which is probably not essential and interferes with the

essential functions of arachidonic acid; second, they provide omega-3

fatty acids in far higher quantities than are necessary.

The " parent " omega-6 fatty acid, linoleic acid, is supplied in our

diet in extremely excessive amounts, and our primary focus with

respect to PUFA should be to vastly decrease our linoleic acid intake.

The ideal diet, in my opinion, should contain preformed arachidonic

acid and DHA from liver, butter and eggs, and very small amounts of

high-vitamin cod liver oil and occasional use of fatty fish. It

should contain a *very* low level of linoleic acid and should be rich

in vitamin B6, which will help convert the EPA in the fish and fish

liver oils to DHA and minimize EPA accumulation, which, in my opinion,

is something that belongs in fish, not people.

The " parent " fatty acids, which are not essential to humans, belong in

plants and are almost certainly not necessary for mammals. EPA

belongs in fish and is probably not essential to any land-dwelling

organisms. AA and DHA are essential to mammals including humans, and

DHA needs are probably higher in humans and other primates because of

the complexity of our brains and eyes. Even these fatty acids,

however, are primarily required during fetal development, infancy and

early childhood, and the requirements are probably negligible in

adults except during pregnancy and lactation.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Nanette,

> See the link I just sent. Peskin claims that the PEAs ARE essential and

> that the others are derivative oils that your body can make as it needs them

> if you have the " parent " oils. Please help me see what is wrong with his

> theory.

The only thing wrong with it is it isn't one. It is an assertion for

which he provides no evidence whatsoever. Pure arachidonic acid

completely cures EFA deficiency. Thus, linoleic acid is obviously not

essential.

> Can you tell me in what issue commented on his theory so I can read it?

> (If you know or can put your hands on it - if not don't sweat it - I'll find

> it.)

Spring 2007, volume 8 number 1.

> Also, thanks for the recommendation. All the talk about depressed immunity

> though has bothered me. I think the Vit A & D is important, though.

Fish oils depress immunity because they contain EPA, which interferes

with arachidonic acid (AA). AA is necessary to the immune system --

which is a " derivative " according to Peskin, not a " parent " fatty

acid.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Thank you! I'll mull this over - sorry I missed the former discussion of

it - I sometimes get overwhelmed with the email and instead of reading I

just delete it all......

Nanette

Re: Avoiding Fish Oils

Nanette,

> See the link I just sent. Peskin claims that the PEAs ARE essential and

> that the others are derivative oils that your body can make as it needs

them

> if you have the " parent " oils. Please help me see what is wrong with his

> theory.

The only thing wrong with it is it isn't one. It is an assertion for

which he provides no evidence whatsoever. Pure arachidonic acid

completely cures EFA deficiency. Thus, linoleic acid is obviously not

essential.

> Can you tell me in what issue commented on his theory so I can read

it?

> (If you know or can put your hands on it - if not don't sweat it - I'll

find

> it.)

Spring 2007, volume 8 number 1.

> Also, thanks for the recommendation. All the talk about depressed

immunity

> though has bothered me. I think the Vit A & D is important, though.

Fish oils depress immunity because they contain EPA, which interferes

with arachidonic acid (AA). AA is necessary to the immune system --

which is a " derivative " according to Peskin, not a " parent " fatty

acid.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> It

> should contain a *very* low level of linoleic acid and should be rich

> in vitamin B6, which will help convert the EPA in the fish and fish

> liver oils to DHA

Any idea what form of B6 was used in the study or studies you've read on

this? Food-based or synthetic?

Suze

[Guest guest]

Suze,

> Any idea what form of B6 was used in the study or studies you've read on

> this? Food-based or synthetic?

I don't know what the source was, but the form was pyridoxine. Why

would the source matter?

Chris

[Guest guest]

> > Any idea what form of B6 was used in the study or studies you've read on

> > this? Food-based or synthetic?

>

> I don't know what the source was, but the form was pyridoxine. Why

> would the source matter?

I don't know if it would, but sent me a study a while back in which

relatively small amounts of pyridoxine had adverse effects.

Suze

[Guest guest]

Suze,

> > I don't know what the source was, but the form was pyridoxine. Why

> > would the source matter?

> I don't know if it would, but sent me a study a while back in which

> relatively small amounts of pyridoxine had adverse effects.

Well that is not a food vs. synthetic issue, because pyridoxine is

abundant in plant foods, and so is a major form of B6 in the diet. I

wonder how small the amounts were, since one would have to be a

carnivore to avoid small amounts of it.

Anyway, we are not looking at an adverse effect, but rather the

probability that B6 is a cofactor for delta-6-desaturase, which is

used in the conversion of linoleic acid to arachidonic acid, the

conversion of alpha-linolenic acid to EPA, and the converstion of EPA

to DHA. Thus, B6 increases the amount of AA and DHA and decreases the

amount of EPA. Since it is apparently acting as an enzyme cofactor,

the effect is not caused by the pyridoxine, but rather the pyridoxal

that is formed from it (which takes place readily in the liver,

provided the dose is reasonable and B2 status is normal).

Chris