fermenting questions

[Guest guest]

I recently made my first batch of ginger carrots (from NT) and salsa.

The ginger carrots and salsa sat out for 3 days at an even 78 degrees.

Unfortunately, I didn't have whey and used extra sea salt.

The salsa grew white fuzzy mold which I spooned off (it was a thick

film) and transferred the salsa to a different container. Is it ok to eat?

My second question is this: how do you know when fermentation is

complete or ready for storage?

The ginger carrots are very, very salty and I will surely use whey

next time. Does fermented food normally have a salty taste?

Thanks in advance!

[Guest guest]

Leave the ginger carrots in your fridge for a month or so, They will get less

salty tasting.

>

> I recently made my first batch of ginger carrots (from NT) and salsa.

> The ginger carrots and salsa sat out for 3 days at an even 78 degrees.

> Unfortunately, I didn't have whey and used extra sea salt.

>

> The salsa grew white fuzzy mold which I spooned off (it was a thick

> film) and transferred the salsa to a different container. Is it ok to eat?

>

> My second question is this: how do you know when fermentation is

> complete or ready for storage?

>

> The ginger carrots are very, very salty and I will surely use whey

> next time. Does fermented food normally have a salty taste?

>

> Thanks in advance!

>

[Guest guest]

I did the same thing: used extra salt in lieu of whey. It was so salty I threw

it out. Also my salsa was too salty. Can I use less salt? Even when I use

whey and don't put that extra salt in there, the stuff is so briny we can't eat

it! It makes me sick to throw the food out, those nice veggies with all that

good stuff goin' on in there. My last ginger carrots were better, made with

whey, but still very very salty. If I leave it in fridge for a month, what

happens to the salt, since you say that it will get less salty? I also have a

question about NT's sauerkraut recipes. I made the sauerkraut with caraway

seeds, and the kimchee, and I absolutely love them. However, I'm wondering

about the amount of the ingredients, especially the cabbage, since the recipe

says to use a " head of Napa cabbage " . There are so many sizes, and the one I

used turned out nearly a half-gallon of kraut, which is supposed to fit into a

quart jar. I'm afraid the proportions in the recipe are not enough for that

amount of cabbage and there won't be enough whey in there. Has anyone made

these often enough to have figured out exactly what is a good amount of cabbage,

for instance? Or carrots in Ginger Carrots? I only had 3/4 of a quart jar of

that, which may have helped contribute to the too-salty taste. Sorry for such a

long post, I would love to have answers to these and other questions. Maybe I

should email Sally herself. Wonder if she'd reply.

Naomi

[Guest guest]

they get less salty tasting because they become more sour. the sour taste takes

over so

they taste less salty. if your ferments turn out too salty, don't throw them

out. use them as

a condiment with or on foods instead of adding salt to the foods themselves. mix

a little

into a salad, for example or put it on some fish instead of adding salt.

sprinkle a little onto

scrambled eggs.

Also, I have heard of others using half the salt called for in the recipes. you

can email Sally

at safallon@... She does respond to emails! Search for " ginger carrots " at

onibasu.com She has posted before about the saltiness of the ginger carrots.

>

> I did the same thing: used extra salt in lieu of whey. It was so salty I

threw it out. Also

my salsa was too salty. Can I use less salt? Even when I use whey and don't

put that extra

salt in there, the stuff is so briny we can't eat it! It makes me sick to throw

the food out,

those nice veggies with all that good stuff goin' on in there. My last ginger

carrots were

better, made with whey, but still very very salty. If I leave it in fridge for

a month, what

happens to the salt, since you say that it will get less salty? I also have a

question about

NT's sauerkraut recipes. I made the sauerkraut with caraway seeds, and the

kimchee, and

I absolutely love them. However, I'm wondering about the amount of the

ingredients,

especially the cabbage, since the recipe says to use a " head of Napa cabbage " .

There are

so many sizes, and the one I used turned out nearly a half-gallon of kraut,

which is

supposed to fit into a quart jar. I'm afraid the proportions in the recipe are

not enough for

that amount of cabbage and there won't be enough whey in there. Has anyone made

these often enough to have figured out exactly what is a good amount of cabbage,

for

instance? Or carrots in Ginger Carrots? I only had 3/4 of a quart jar of that,

which may

have helped contribute to the too-salty taste. Sorry for such a long post, I

would love to

have answers to these and other questions. Maybe I should email Sally herself.

Wonder if

she'd reply.

> Naomi

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Can I use less salt?....I also have a question about NT's sauerkraut recipes. "

Short answer: yes.

It is best to use some salt to inhibit putrefying bacteria in the ferment, but

honestly you can use no salt if you use some other starter. Sandor Katz talks

about using water kefir grains, active whey, kombucha or wine to make no salt

kraut in Wild Fermentation.

Over years of trial and error I use my own tastebuds to salt my ferments

instead of any measuring cup.

When making brined pickles, like my favorite spicy carrots or mushrooms or

cucumbers, I make a brine that is " too salty to be tasty but not salty enough to

make me gag " Anywhere around the " pleasantly and distinctly salty " range is

acceptable. I usually start with a teaspoon of seasalt in a pint glass (3/4

full) of water and adjust salt and water to get to the right saltyness. It's

usually close to a tablespoon, but it depends on the saltyness of the salt. Then

I pour that brine over the packed jar of vegetables.

When making a cabbage ferment like kraut or kim chi I ... well let me direct

you to a Kraut 101 I wrote. It's stored in the " files " section of the Nourishing

Tradtions group, but here it is cut and pasted in down at the bottom

This method works for me MUCH better than Sally's method and seems to be

really easy for beginners to get the hang of. Just remember.. your tongue is the

best judge of how salty something should be. Trust your gut, and trust those

bacteria...they are good little fellas (or ladies? or genderless single celled

organisms??

Alyss

Making Kraut 101

by Alyss - please use and share, direct folks back to

discussingnt/

Here are instructions for making one quart of jar fermented sauerkraut.

1 quart is a great amount to start with... enough for your whole family to try

it a couple times, but not so much that you will feel overwhelmed. It's easy

enough to scale up or down as needed. Good luck!

Phase one: Shopping

1. Find good quality, organic green or purple head cabbage. One 8 inch

diameter head will be more than enough, but it's not a bad idea to pick up

more than you think you'll need. Your family can always use more cruciferous

veggies in their life, right? Weigh your cabbage.. remember this number.

2. Buy good quality sea salt, but don't worry about fleur de sel or some

imported stuff. I use Real Salt and highly recommend it.

Phase two: Cleaning and Chopping

1. Get a quart size mason jar with a lid. You can either buy 6 or 12 of them

new with lids, or find one at a thrift store and buy new lids and rings at the

grocery store. You might even have some at home already. Wash it well with

soap and hot water.

2. Core and chop your cabbage. Commercial kraut is often made with really

finely shredded cabbage. I prefer a little bigger shreds.. more or less as

small as I can get them with a knife.

3. As you chop your cabbage stuff it into the jar.. with no salt.. this is

just for measuring. Don't pound it in, just stuff it as stuffed as you can get

it. When the jar is full pull the cabbage out into the biggest mixing bowl (or

a big cooking pot) you have. Add another handful of shredded cabbage.

Phase three: Salting and packing

1. Remember how much your head of cabbage weighed at the grocery store? Do a

little mental math estimating how much of the cabbage you used, and multiply

that by 2 tsp per pound. For example, your cabbage weighed 2 pounds and you

used 3/4 of the head. You used 1 1/2 pounds of cabbage so you need 3 tsp of

salt. Figure out how much salt you need and sprinkle that over the cabbage. No

need for a calculator here, just guestimate.

2. Toss the cabbage and the salt with your hands, squeezing and crunching the

cabbage. You should start to see some liquid coming out of the cabbage. Keep

kneading and squeezing, thinking about how yummy and healthy this kraut is

going to be and how much you love your family for a couple minutes.

3. Taste the cabbage.. it should be distinctly salty. If it is pleasantly

salty, add some more salt. If it makes you want to gag add some more shredded

cabbage

3. Rinse your hands off and start packing the jar. Use a wooden spoon or

wooden meat pounder or small ladle to help you really pack the cabbage into

the jar. You want to push any air bubbles out. Pack it in a small amount at a

time until the cabbage is within 1/2 an inch of the bottom of the threads of

the jar.

4. Push on the kraut one last time. If liquid isn't rising above the level of

the cabbage then make a brine of about 1 tsp of salt per cup of water. Slowly

pour a little of this over the cabbage, giving it time to sink in, until it is

at or above the level of the cabbage.

5. Screw the lid on tight and put in a warmish place in your kitchen. On top

of the fridge, the cupboard above the microwave, etc. Do the dishes and leave

the cabbage for the day

Phase Four: Fermenting and Ageing

1. The next day, open the lid of the jar. I recommend doing this over the

sink. Did the jar " pop " or fizz when you opened it? If not, that's OK. Taste

the kraut. Put the lid back on and put it back in the warm spot.

2. Repeat the last step every day until it truly is popping of fizzing. Taste

it again, and then put the lid back on and put that jar in the fridge.

3. Let it sit for at least one more week and then test again. Sour yet? No,

let it go anothe week. In the fridge this stuff will last for weeks and months

and just get sourer and sourer. Most likely after 2 weeks in the fridge it

will be quite sour, but since you've been tasting it the whole time you know

what it's like and when you are going to enjoy eating it.

Phase Five: Making the next batch...

Repeat from the beginning, adding some of your sauerkraut juice to the cabbage

as your are packing it or instead of the brine.

[Guest guest]

Germans mix apples in with kraut for many dishes. For your issues I

would try grating them in. You might also try to stimulate sweet, sour,

salt, and umani at the same time, or also rinsing the kraut a bit first.

I would also think that fermenting your own for less time would lessen

the sour taste.

Desh

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[Guest guest]

You can also use juniper berries, or mustard seeds, or herbs (tarragon

sauerkraut anyone?) to modify the flavor, added before fermenting. My

grandmother (Latvian, not German) used to serve it warm and for some

reason, hers was always somewhat more mellow and somewhat sweeter

(maybe she added sweetness before serving?) than my (Ukrainian)

mother's sauerkraut, served cold. They both also froze their

sauerkraut to store it if they ran out of room or needed to store it

long-term. Mom uses ziploc bags but they tend to become punctured in

the freezer by sharp edges, then they make a huge mess during

defrosting. You'd think by now that I'd remember to defrost the bag

in a big bowl...

I just did a batch and used Japanese salt shrimp to make the brine (I

had some in the fridge from another experiment)... STINKY STINKY

STINKY. If you use your hands to pack the stuff in smaller jars after

the initial fermentation (like I did at lunchtime today), the stink

just doesn't come off - I've even rubbed on lavender essential oil,

neat, but to no avail (so now my hands smell like lavender with

rotting fish undertones!). The result was surprisingly quite tasty

though. I used the concoction for a teeny batch of ginger carrots, a

jar of beets, and a couple of jars of sauerkraut. Given that I'm the

only one who will eat the fermented stuff in our house, I think I'm

set for the next couple of months.

Now that I think about it I guess my guys will eat dill pickles so

I'll need to make room for an enormous batch of those. For the

pickles I'll stick with regular salt brine, garlic, dill and a chunk

of horseradish root - leave out the whey - though family friends used

to toss in various spices like peppercorns and mustard seeds.

Working on the fermented mustard. The recipe in Nourishing Traditions

is just too too spicy. My preschooler loves the Tree of Life stone

ground mustard but there is no way he'd eat my super spicy fermented

mustard.... I'm thinking that ACV and wine/beer might be necessary in

place of whey to mellow out the flavor.

-jennifer

[Guest guest]

>

My

> grandmother (Latvian, not German) used to serve it warm and for some

> reason, hers was always somewhat more mellow and somewhat sweeter

> (maybe she added sweetness before serving?) than my (Ukrainian)

> mother's sauerkraut, served cold.

I don't mind it warm as much. It seems to bring out the sweetness naturally? In

fact I love

reuben sandwiches, but I fear heating the kraut will diminish the enzyme and

healthy

bacteria benefits.

[Guest guest]

>

> Germans mix apples in with kraut for many dishes. For your issues I

> would try grating them in.

This worked grate (pun intended)! Thx.