was RELIGION ? Re: PREDICTED FAMINE Now speaking of wings

[Guest guest]

The more I read the Bible the more it stands out to me to judge the

acts not the people; that's not our job. I'm still struggling with

that one, tho.

I saw a video, " What I've Learned About U.S. Foreign Policy " (highly

recommended!) in which they were talking about all the deaths caused

by the US in Panama, I believe, and a woman was saying she prayed for

our president that God would forgive him for what he'd done and that

he'd never know the kind of grief that they were experiencing from

something similar happening to his daughter. (I think her daughter

was among those killed). It struck me how profound the difference

was between her response to the tragedy and the typical American

who'd probably want to see the president " burning in hell " or

something similar.

> > >

> > > Careful there ;o) I'm one of those crazy rightwingers and I

> > guessing

> > > that they/we are everywhere. I have this theory that the

political

> > > spectrum is more like a circle and at each end you may find

those

> > who

> > > do some of the the same outward actions, but for different

> > reasons.

> > > Dont' try to take it too far, but in recent years I've found

myself

> > > doing some really crunchy things and meeting and hanging with

all

> > sorts

> > > of people.

> > >

> > > One of those crazy rightwingers.

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > I see how the right-wingers can take this to do the

> > > > judgemental " we're superior to you sinners " thing

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

So powerful, Chris. Thank you for sharing that. I am going to write

that down to remember it.

Leah

On 3/15/08, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> On 3/15/08, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote:

>

> > It struck me how profound the difference

> > was between her response to the tragedy and the typical American

> > who'd probably want to see the president " burning in hell " or

> > something similar.

>

> I think Americans are very diverse, but you are right that there is

> this strain of thinking (although it probably exists in Panama

> too...). I was on my way home from the last WAPF conference and I

> happened about the radio show of Jay Seculo, who heads an organization

> housed at Pat on's Regeant University to effect an Evangelical

> influence on American law. Someone called in and said the only thing

> she regrets about being saved is that she won't be there after the

> rapture to see all the secularists burn in the fire and brimstone (I'm

> paraphrasing, I don't remember her exact words for describing what she

> wished she could see happen to them).

>

> I was just reading last night, by contrast, in _Wounded by Love: The

> Life and the Wisdom of Elder Porphyrios_:

>

> " The important thing is for us to enter into the Church -- to unite

> ourselves with our fellow men, with the joys and sorrows of each and

> everyone, to feel that they are our own, to pray for everyone, to have

> care for their salvation, to forget about ourselves, to do everything

> for them just as Christ did for us. ... No one should wish to be

> saved alone without all others being saved. "

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Dora,

You sound like someone who would fit right in with the 'sordid crowd' I

hang with! Sometimes when I'm sitting back with a good wood fire, drinking a

homebrew and just listening quietly to my wife and friends chatting, I am amazed

at the different personalities that I can observe.

We do tend to have 'right-wing' views to varying degrees, however challenges

come to the surface at times. I rather enjoy the whole of it. I rarely encounter

the -holier than thou, look down on sinners- type .... (one major exception, but

he is on heavy meds. Lately he has begun good diet practices so this could

change. He is also the most left winger among us, but his religious fervor is

out of kilter some how.He can empty a room pronto, LOL) --Bill

Dora <adorablemama@...> wrote:

--- In , " haecklers " <haecklers@...>

wrote:

Careful there ;o) I'm one of those crazy rightwingers and I guessing

that they/we are everywhere. I have this theory that the political

spectrum is more like a circle and at each end you may find those who

do some of the the same outward actions, but for different reasons.

Dont' try to take it too far, but in recent years I've found myself

doing some really crunchy things and meeting and hanging with all sorts

of people.

One of those crazy rightwingers.

>

I see how the right-wingers can take this to do the

> judgemental " we're superior to you sinners " thing

[Guest guest]

Dora,

> Now, some may say that this next statement is hypocritical, but as far

> as foreign policy, it's dog eat dog, I mean eat or get eaten. This is

> a historical fact, do I justify the acts of the US abroad, I don't know

> if it can be helped, humans and governments being as they are. All I

> can say is that I am eagerly awaiting the thousand years of peace when

> Christ will reign as our King, then all the injustices will be repaid.

That is the reality of it, but it certainly has no basis in Christian

ideas of foreign policy. In the early centuries, Christians were

forbidden from serving in the military, probably in part because they

had to sacrifice to pagan gods. But, even after the Roman Empire

became Christianized, soldiers who killed in battle had to abstain

from communion from 1-3 years and the clergy was forbidden from

serving in the military; in fact even involuntary manslaughter

permanently barred one from the clergy. This was true up until the

Crusades in the West and to this day in the Orthodox East (and western

branches of the Orthodox Church). In the West, Augustine formulated

the Just War theory which placed great restrictions on warfare and

made it a last resort; western theologians refined and expanded it

later, but even in its present state as endorsed by the Roman Catholic

Church, it forbids the Iraq War, hence Pope II's

condemnation of it and a number of congressmen dubbing him an " enemy

of the United States. " In the middle ages, even warring factions of

Christians would make truces on fasting days such as Wednesday and

Friday and other holy days. Contrast that to the situation in the

NATO bombing of Kosovo where the bishop of that area begged the

US/NATO to withold bombing for Holy Week, and after the request was

declined, begged at least for Easter; in response, British tropps

wrote " Happy Easter " on the bombs, because nothing is sacred to them.

Chris