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On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:00 PM, <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> Now I've seen everything:

> http://www.meatwave.com/blog.php?ID=81

>

> I'm afraid I might like it :)

Hey ,

I think it might go good with that chocolate covered bacon I posted

about awhile ago :-)

By the way, are you coming to the conference?

--

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Love the people who treat you right.

Forget about the ones who don't.

Believe everything happens for a reason.

If you get a second chance, grab it with both hands.

If it changes your life, let it.

Nobody said life would be easy.

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--- <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> > Now I've seen everything:

> > http://www.meatwave.com/blog.php?ID=81

> > I'm afraid I might like it :)

>

--- <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> I think it might go good with that chocolate covered bacon I posted

> about awhile ago :-)

>

> By the way, are you coming to the conference?

, yeah just put the chocolate covered bacon in the ice cream.

Three of my favorite foods all together - cream, chocolate, and bacon.

With no added sugar :)

I'd love to go to the WAPF conference. SF is a great city for it. I

enjoyed going to an air quality conference there a couple of years

ago, with all costs paid by my employer. But I'm supporting a wife

and daughter on my salary and there isn't much money left to indulge

on myself. My wife is an intuitive FAILSAFER and my daughter will be

in fifth grade. My wife would probably be more interested in a Plant

Poisons and Rotten Stuff conference - if Emma ever does one in England

one of these days :)

I'd like to see the WAPF conference come to Austin or San . I

could afford that.

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My husband's boss made bacon vodka recently. The martinis were garnished

with an heirloom tomato, bibb lettuce and a spiral-fried ham slice.

He also recently made a goat cheese sorbet- really good with tomato

aspic.

Desh

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On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 8:47 AM, <oz4caster@...> wrote:

>

> --- <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> > > Now I've seen everything:

> > > http://www.meatwave.com/blog.php?ID=81

> > > I'm afraid I might like it :)

> >

> --- <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> > I think it might go good with that chocolate covered bacon I posted

> > about awhile ago :-)

> >

> > By the way, are you coming to the conference?

>

> , yeah just put the chocolate covered bacon in the ice cream.

> Three of my favorite foods all together - cream, chocolate, and bacon.

> With no added sugar :)

>

Oh, oh, oh, I was thinking along those lines but topping a chocolate

sourdough waffle with the bacon ice cream and then topping with bacon

crumbles and chocolate shavings.............

Must go cook...............

Sharon

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How about a doughnut covered with maple syrup frosting with bacon on

top?

I saw that on Bourdain's show the other night. He said it was

the best doughnut he'd ever had.

Of course you'd have to fry it in lard.

Ann Marie

On Aug 12, 2008, at 8:55 AM, Sharon son wrote:

> Oh, oh, oh, I was thinking along those lines but topping a chocolate

> sourdough waffle with the bacon ice cream and then topping with bacon

> crumbles and chocolate shavings.............

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That sounds fabulous. I have multiple quarts of frozen lard...have to

defrost one. I was so inspired from the bacon-talk, that I made

open-faced BLT- " chop " -style sandwiches served on lightly toasted

kalamata olive and garlic bread. The home-made creamy mayo as as

close as my bacon got to " ice cream " for today. LOL.

Sharon

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:14 PM, <inasnit@...> wrote:

> How about a doughnut covered with maple syrup frosting with bacon on

> top?

>

> I saw that on Bourdain's show the other night. He said it was

> the best doughnut he'd ever had.

>

> Of course you'd have to fry it in lard.

>

> Ann Marie

>

> On Aug 12, 2008, at 8:55 AM, Sharon son wrote:

>

>> Oh, oh, oh, I was thinking along those lines but topping a chocolate

>> sourdough waffle with the bacon ice cream and then topping with bacon

>> crumbles and chocolate shavings.............

>

>

--

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the

government fears the people, there is liberty. - Jefferson

Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you

will have plenty to eat.

Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul

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I was reading a cookbook the other day written in 1890 by a group of

church ladies in Ohio. There were at least a dozen recipes for

doughnuts. All of them called for frying in lard. :-)

There's a bar in Beverly Hills that serves bacon as bar food instead

of nuts. You just sit there and eat bacon while you sip your martini.

My kind of bar food!

Ann Marie

On Aug 12, 2008, at 11:27 AM, Sharon son wrote:

> That sounds fabulous. I have multiple quarts of frozen lard...have to

> defrost one. I was so inspired from the bacon-talk, that I made

> open-faced BLT- " chop " -style sandwiches served on lightly toasted

> kalamata olive and garlic bread. The home-made creamy mayo as as

> close as my bacon got to " ice cream " for today. LOL.

> Sharon

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> There's a bar in Beverly Hills that serves bacon as bar food instead

> of nuts. You just sit there and eat bacon while you sip your

martini.

> My kind of bar food!

>

> Ann Marie

I've mentioned it before on this list, but here in Portland OR, we were

laughing one night about how a bacon straw would be perfect for a

Bloody . And a culinary student heard us and did one for his

project for a class and got an A.

(tie bacon around a chopstick and deep fry. yum)

Connie

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Oh wow. That is fantastic! What a great idea.

I have been making my DH " nutrient-dense " martinis lately. I add

olives from a local farm that are stuffed with either blue cheese or

anchovies.

On Aug 12, 2008, at 2:01 PM, cbrown2008 wrote:

>

>

> I've mentioned it before on this list, but here in Portland OR, we

> were

> laughing one night about how a bacon straw would be perfect for a

> Bloody . And a culinary student heard us and did one for his

> project for a class and got an A.

>

> (tie bacon around a chopstick and deep fry. yum)

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Oh my goodness!!

Do you have any idea of what all the grease does to your liver and

gallbladder? IF you are looking for a major pain in the back side of

the back, this will certainly cause it. Lard if very hard on the whole

body and is not digestible.

Here is a web site to read on Pork and it includes all meat from the

swine.

http://www.geocities.com/porkfatal/

<http://www.geocities.com/porkfatal/>

Sorry if I burst anyones bubble.

> >

> >> Oh, oh, oh, I was thinking along those lines but topping a

chocolate

> >> sourdough waffle with the bacon ice cream and then topping with

bacon

> >> crumbles and chocolate shavings.............

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the

> government fears the people, there is liberty. - Jefferson

> Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you

> will have plenty to eat.

> Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul

>

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Actually according to Dr. Cowan, it is not eating enough good

fats (and/or taking statin drugs) that causes gall stones.

" The gall bladder is a reservoir or holding tank for bile salts, which

the body uses to digest fats. When we eat fat, the body releases bile

into the digestive tract to break it down into absorbable fatty acids.

Bile salts are made of cholesterol. Gall stones are a sign that your

body has " decided " to increase its reservoir of cholesterol. Why would

it do this? The obvious answer is that it has become " afraid " that the

supply of cholesterol is low, therefore it uses the strategy of

storing extra for a " rainy day. "

.... The best way to provide your gall bladder with cholesterol is to

eat plenty of animal fats. If you eat a lot of vegetable oils and

trans fats, the gall bladder is likely to become inflamed. If you are

on a lowfat diet, the gall bladder atrophies because it does not have

enough work to do. "

https://westonaprice.org/askdoctor/gallstones.html

Ann Marie

On Aug 12, 2008, at 2:08 PM, mkathryn59 wrote:

> Oh my goodness!!

> Do you have any idea of what all the grease does to your liver and

> gallbladder? IF you are looking for a major pain in the back side of

> the back, this will certainly cause it. Lard if very hard on the whole

> body and is not digestible.

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kathryn,

.... " sorry if i just burst anyones bubble " ?? did you think you just discovered

the truth about pork fat and now all of us on this list who eat masses of fats

including pork are going to just accept that and cut it out of our diet?! dr.

kwasniewski of the Optimal Diet recommends the majority of the diet be from

pork, and the fattiest at that! unfortunately in this country it is a bit harder

to come by some of the products he recommends so i don't base my own personal

diet on pork, but i get as much in as i can and i try to implement as many of

his suggestions as i can. and i don't skimp! i eat a diet of at least 80% fats

and i am doing fantastic! i think you had better keep on researching....

amanda

http://www.geocities.com/porkfatal/

<http://www.geocities.com/porkfatal/>

Sorry if I burst anyones bubble.

.

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I had no idea a dr would teach a high fat diet when it is a proven

fact that this is a major contributor to Liver/gallbladder problems.

High fat includes not only the pork but beef, chicken and hydrogenated

fats.

Well, if you are getting along good then that is ok for you.

Kathry

-- In , " " <amanda@...> wrote:

>

> kathryn,

>

> ... " sorry if i just burst anyones bubble " ?? did you think you just

discovered the truth about pork fat and now all of us on this list who

eat masses of fats including pork are going to just accept that and

cut it out of our diet?! dr. kwasniewski of the Optimal Diet

recommends the majority of the diet be from pork, and the fattiest at

that! unfortunately in this country it is a bit harder to come by some

of the products he recommends so i don't base my own personal diet on

pork, but i get as much in as i can and i try to implement as many of

his suggestions as i can. and i don't skimp! i eat a diet of at least

80% fats and i am doing fantastic! i think you had better keep on

researching....

>

> amanda

>

>

>

> http://www.geocities.com/porkfatal/

> <http://www.geocities.com/porkfatal/>

> Sorry if I burst anyones bubble.

>

>

>

>

> .

>

>

>

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I had no idea a dr would do such a thing.

But if you are getting along ok on this then good for you.

-- In , " " <amanda@...> wrote:

>

> kathryn,

>

> ... " sorry if i just burst anyones bubble " ?? did you think you just

discovered the truth about pork fat and now all of us on this list who

eat masses of fats including pork are going to just accept that and

cut it out of our diet?! dr. kwasniewski of the Optimal Diet

recommends the majority of the diet be from pork, and the fattiest at

that! unfortunately in this country it is a bit harder to come by some

of the products he recommends so i don't base my own personal diet on

pork, but i get as much in as i can and i try to implement as many of

his suggestions as i can. and i don't skimp! i eat a diet of at least

80% fats and i am doing fantastic! i think you had better keep on

researching....

>

> amanda

>

>

>

> http://www.geocities.com/porkfatal/

> <http://www.geocities.com/porkfatal/>

> Sorry if I burst anyones bubble.

>

>

>

>

> .

>

>

>

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> I had no idea a dr would teach a high fat diet when it is a proven

> fact that this is a major contributor to Liver/gallbladder problems.

> Kathry

, if you look at how the gall bladder works, the problems you

mention can come from low-fat living and then all of a sudden having

high fat. It's a very different story when one has a regular amount

of fat coming in as with a sensible controlled carb diet.

From Dr. Eades' blog

http://tinyurl.com/5sfvrs

....

" If very few fatty meals come down the tract for example, if the

owner of the GI tract is following the Ornish or other low-fat diet

the bile sits around in the gall bladder, unsquirted. The liver

continues to make bile, but slows down a little in its production.

The cholesterol component of the bile tends to become more

concentrated with time and can ultimately become supersaturated and

precipitate as a small cholesterol gallstone (cholesterol accounts

for 80-90% of gallstones). If the stone stays in the gall bladder, it

typically doesn't pose a problem. The problem arises when the stone

makes its way into and occludes the bile duct, or, even worse, if it

travels further and blocks the common duct. In either case, terrible,

colicky pain ensues ending up with a trip to the surgeon.

If one eats fatty foods often, then the gall bladder constantly

empties itself and generally stays free from gall stones. If a one

doesn't eat much fat because one is following a low-fat diet or one

is on one of the modified fasting programs (Optifast, Medifast,

etc.), then one's gall bladder doesn't empty and the bile sits around

supersaturating. Then if one blows it out, so to speak, on a big

steak dinner, or a giant cheeseburger, or any kind of fatty meal, the

gall bladder squeezes this sludgy gunk that may contain a few small

stones into the bile duct, and, bingo!, one has a serious problem all

of a sudden. One of the big problems people have with the fasting

programs and with low-fat diets is a high incidence of gall bladder

disease. "

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how long have you been on this list? we don't eat hydrogenated fats. the fats we

eat, and most people on this list will agree with me, are butter, lard, tallow,

beef, poultry, pork, full fat dairy, coconut and maybe olive. no vegetable oils.

it is not a proven fact when it comes to animal fats, only vegetable fats.

amanda

I had no idea a dr would teach a high fat diet when it is a proven

fact that this is a major contributor to Liver/gallbladder problems.

High fat includes not only the pork but beef, chicken and hydrogenated

fats.

Well, if you are getting along good then that is ok for you.

Kathry

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,

> , yeah just put the chocolate covered bacon in the ice cream.

> Three of my favorite foods all together - cream, chocolate, and bacon.

> With no added sugar :)

Sounds delicious!

> I'd love to go to the WAPF conference. SF is a great city for it. I

> enjoyed going to an air quality conference there a couple of years

> ago, with all costs paid by my employer. But I'm supporting a wife

> and daughter on my salary and there isn't much money left to indulge

> on myself. My wife is an intuitive FAILSAFER and my daughter will be

> in fifth grade. My wife would probably be more interested in a Plant

> Poisons and Rotten Stuff conference - if Emma ever does one in England

> one of these days :)

>

> I'd like to see the WAPF conference come to Austin or San . I

> could afford that.

Yeah close proximity does help some of us. I plan on taking the train

(unless the security measures are hyped up, in which case I will

drive) and enjoying the sights along the way. San Francisco is only

about 12 hours from where I live.

So I will toast a bacon martini to you while I'm there :-)

--

Life is too short to wake up with regrets.

Love the people who treat you right.

Forget about the ones who don't.

Believe everything happens for a reason.

If you get a second chance, grab it with both hands.

If it changes your life, let it.

Nobody said life would be easy.

They just promised it would be worth it.

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--- Connie <cbrown2008@...> wrote:

> , if you look at how the gall bladder works, the problems you

> mention can come from low-fat living and then all of a sudden having

> high fat.

Connie, have you seen any good advice for those who have been on a low

fat diet and have gallstone problems, as far as how to get rid of the

gallstones without surgery?

I'm guessing maybe a gradual and careful increase in saturated and

monounsaturated fats might work, while decreasing carb intake.

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And your degree in nutrition is from WHICH university, again? Where

are the articles you've written on fat consumptioon? For that matter,

if high fat consumption is so Bad, why did the Eskimos/Inuit have such

excellent teeth and health on their 80% fat diet? How about the Masai,

who had probably the best teeth in their entire region of Africa? They

ate almost nothing but meat, milk, and blood. Hello. Wake up. Low

fat will destroy your brain and give you panic attacks.

mike g

--- In , " mkathryn59 " <mkathryn59@...>

wrote:

>

> I had no idea a dr would teach a high fat diet when it is a proven

> fact that this is a major contributor to Liver/gallbladder problems.

> High fat includes not only the pork but beef, chicken and hydrogenated

> fats.

> Well, if you are getting along good then that is ok for you.

> Kathry

>

>

>

>

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I'd love to know this too. My mother-in-law increased her good fats

recently (started drinking raw milk instead of skim, started cooking

with butter) and she had an attack. She has had gall stones for " 15

years " .

She went straight to the surgeon and of course she is now scheduled

for surgery on the 20th.

I tried to talk her into trying dietary changes first -- but she's got

her mind made up unfortunately. She's going to be abroad for the month

of September and is afraid of having another attack while traveling.

She does not want to postpone her trip.

The surgeon convinced her that it's an easy ( " in and out " ) procedure

with no side effects or consequences. He told her that " it's only

going to get worse " so she might as well do it now as opposed to doing

an emergency procedure later.

She said she has tried cleanses and they do work -- but only

temporarily. She said she would have to be " religious about doing

cleanses for two years " (I don't know where she got this idea) and

that then the stones would come back anyway.

I talked to her about how important it is to eat the right fats and

how bad trans fats and vegetable oils are, and how a low fat diet and

eating the wrong fats cause gall stones. But she told me that she

remembers " lots of people " having their gallbladders out when she was

younger ( " in the '50s " ). So she doesn't think it has to do with the

fats she is or isn't eating. She thinks that gallbladders just wear

out when you get older.

Ann Marie

On Aug 12, 2008, at 6:11 PM, wrote:

>>

> Connie, have you seen any good advice for those who have been on a low

> fat diet and have gallstone problems, as far as how to get rid of the

> gallstones without surgery?

>

> I'm guessing maybe a gradual and careful increase in saturated and

> monounsaturated fats might work, while decreasing carb intake.

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Oooohhhh, my goodness. You're new here, aren't you. ROFL.

Sharon

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 5:08 PM, mkathryn59 <mkathryn59@...> wrote:

> Oh my goodness!!

> Do you have any idea of what all the grease does to your liver and

> gallbladder? IF you are looking for a major pain in the back side of

> the back, this will certainly cause it. Lard if very hard on the whole

> body and is not digestible.

> Here is a web site to read on Pork and it includes all meat from the

> swine.

>

> http://www.geocities.com/porkfatal/

> <http://www.geocities.com/porkfatal/>

> Sorry if I burst anyones bubble.

>

>

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....

Just so happens I'm dehydrating a dozen beautiful organic beets, and going

to make powder to add to smoothies, sprinkle on salads, add to any number of

foods. I've been using beet powder for two decades for my parrots who are

prone to fatty liver issues (high seed/nut diet), so it's a way to help the

liver handle fat. This might be a good addition to diets for some:

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/learn/beetroot.php

Bile salts are key to gallstones.....

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/112188861/abstract?CRETRY=1 & SRETRY=0

Ox blood is something to Google in relation to gallstones..............

Sharon

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 9:11 PM, <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> --- Connie <cbrown2008@...> wrote:

> > , if you look at how the gall bladder works, the problems you

> > mention can come from low-fat living and then all of a sudden having

> > high fat.

>

> Connie, have you seen any good advice for those who have been on a low

> fat diet and have gallstone problems, as far as how to get rid of the

> gallstones without surgery?

>

> I'm guessing maybe a gradual and careful increase in saturated and

> monounsaturated fats might work, while decreasing carb intake.

>

>

>

>

>

--

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government

fears the people, there is liberty. - Jefferson

Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will

have plenty to eat.

Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul

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> Connie, have you seen any good advice

> for those who have been on a low

> fat diet and have gallstone problems

Good question . No i haven't, although Byron s the leptin

guy says he helps people in his practice with this (but he doesn't go

into it in his books). i suspect he has supplements for it. otherwise

I think like you do - hope for a gradual comeback by natural healing.

Connie

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> She thinks that gallbladders just wear

> out when you get older.

My sympathies, Ann Marie. That generation believes in docs and

their " cut, poison, burn " so deeply you can't get through to them.

Did her doc talk to her about problems handling good fats after the

surgery? I heard that people either have to eat low fat or take ox bile

pills, because they can't squirt bile to handle good eating.

Does she really want to turn into an old bent over lady real fast from

low level malnutrition because she can't eat right after they take out

body parts? Ooops I am thinking not like her generation.

Connie

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