Re: Real Food and Prosperity

March 18, 2008

--- Adrienne <ahewcn@...> wrote:

> I was wondering how many people on this list feel that their lives

> have become more prosperous by moving to a nourishing, real food

> diet. I am working on an outline for an e-book that explores the

> connection between eating " rich " foods like butter fat and pate and

> the feeling of financial, emotional or spiritual freedom it can

> offer despite the size of one's bank account or possible lack of

> affiliation with any religion.

Adrienne,

I changed my diet about two years ago to bring in raw dairy, good

saturated and monounsaturated fats, and to minimize polyunsaturated

fat and sugar, while improving nutrition. I have continued walking 2

or 3 miles a day, which I started about three years ago. I lost about

30 pounds of fat and gained about 10 pounds of muscle and feel much

healthier than I did two or three years ago. I fact, I have to look

in the mirror to remind myself that I'm 55 and not 35

I have had a renewed interest spiritual insight, though I claim no

religion. Discussions on this list have helped to rekindle that

interest. But who knows, maybe it is the diet

March 18, 2008

Congrats, , on shaving off 20 lbs and 20 years! That is wonderful.

I have found in my life (particularly when I compare it to those I left behind

in big box

land) that I have come to appreciate what I have more and feel a certain

connectedness to

everything around me as well as the repercussions of my actions. And each time I

increase

the quality of what I eat, the universe seems to pat me on the back and offer me

a way to

afford even higher quality food. Instead of cheating on my spouse (something

that people

I know who are perpetually unhappy with food/dieting are doing), I'm finding

gratification

and purpose at the table.

On the less metaphysical plane, you could say that we spent less on food by not

eating

out, he had more confidence because his skin cleared up, and that his

productivity at work

increased because he was better nourished.

But I also think that when we embrace the " richness " of life, we attract more of

the same. I

first started thinking of this when I gave a talk a few years ago in

Switzerland. When I

mentioned that whole milk was healthier than skim a woman stood up in protest

and said,

" But whole milk is SO RICH! " Afterwards, I realized that although this woman was

very

financially set and living in one of the most prosperous countries in the world,

she

objected to " rich " and probably lived the life of a pauper internally. I began

paying closer

attention to people around me who have a ton of money and realized that the one

thing

rich people often will not spend money on is food (if they think they can get it

cheaper).

Meanwhile, they waste their money and their time economizing on calories and fat

grams

and believing (in the spirit of no pain, no gain) that any food that is good

for you must be

tasteless and tough.

Yes, another thing that this way of eating is giving us back is COMMUNITY. This

group is

to my mind a modern spin on the old fashioned communities that petered out in

the 80s.

I'm sure it has a lot to do with your rekindled interest in spirituality.

Thanks for your input and again, congratulations! Keep up the good work.

Best,

Adrienne

> Adrienne,

>

> I changed my diet about two years ago to bring in raw dairy, good

> saturated and monounsaturated fats, and to minimize polyunsaturated

> fat and sugar, while improving nutrition. I have continued walking 2

> or 3 miles a day, which I started about three years ago. I lost about

> 30 pounds of fat and gained about 10 pounds of muscle and feel much

> healthier than I did two or three years ago. I fact, I have to look

> in the mirror to remind myself that I'm 55 and not 35

>

> I have had a renewed interest spiritual insight, though I claim no

> religion. Discussions on this list have helped to rekindle that

> interest. But who knows, maybe it is the diet

>

March 19, 2008

Hi,

I believe that such things as prosperity & real food is

territorially/culturally defined according to the area originally homesteaded &

by what tradition. Look forward to your e-book.

Best regards, Jim

ahewcn <ahewcn@...> wrote:

Hi there!

I was wondering how many people on this list feel that their lives have become

more

prosperous by moving to a nourishing, real food diet.

I am working on an outline for an e-book that explores the connection between

eating

" rich " foods like butter fat and pate and the feeling of financial, emotional or

spiritual

freedom it can offer despite the size of one's bank account or possible lack of

affiliation

with any religion. Also to be explored are the psychological impact of basing

your

shopping list on what you have a coupon for, freedom from the price fluctuations

caused

by the oil crisis and how increased energy, better skin or weight loss will

impact your

confidence and ability to perform your work better.

Many clients and friends of mine seem to feel they have benefited

psychologically from

" eating rich " (which, as you know, is sinful in today's world) one way or

another, now I'd

like to know your experiences. Down the road, I may be looking for actual

testimonials to

include in the book, but will post for that at that time. Just wanted to get the

general gut

reactions to this question to see if it strikes a chord with this group.

Thanks,

Adrienne

Well done is better than well said..., Jim Igo

---------------------------------

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March 19, 2008

I would love it if it were to be true.

But it makes me wonder then, if eating " real food " makes you more

prosperous, then how come so many people the world over, who still eat

" traditionally " because that's all they have (barely have) are not

prosperous?

Or how come everyone in the rural/country areas of France, Greece, and

Italy (who still eat very rich food) - how come every person there is

not wealthy - most of those folks in the country areas live very

simple lives.

And it would make me wonder, why my own ancestors who ate " real food "

and high fat diets were so poor (but mind you, their health was

excellent, and they all lived into their 90's). But they were poor.

Personally, I may be totally wrong, but I believe prosperity is based

on your OWN mind-set. If you are one of the poor people in the world,

eating " traditional food " and you are wishing you could afford some of

the new, glamorous food, then you are likely poor (and will remain

that way because you BELIEVE you are not prosperous).

On the other hand, if you believe eating processed food is

" prosperous " and shouts to others that you indeed " have arrived " , then

you are more likely to be prosperous, even if you eat it. Unhealthy.

But prosperous.

How many very affluent North Americans live in our own neighborhoods,

have lots of wealth, but would trade it gladly for better health? How

many affluent North Americans eat " traditionally " - very few.

I think it is all a matter of what you believe, especially what you

believe about prosperity/money.

I live in the Toronto area, one of the world's greatest melting pots.

And at the grocery store, you'll see the new immigrants loading up on

fresh fruits/veggies, kefir, yogurt, milk, meats - good, healthy food.

But they're poor. Very healthy looking, trim, nice hair and skin. But

poor.

On the other hand, you'll see the North Americans loading up on

packaged and processed foods. Overweight. Many with dull skin and

hair. A percentage of these North Americans have more prosperity, but

they don't eat well. The majority of these North Americans are " poor " ,

and they don't eat well. It's more a matter of personal belief, IMO,

not what you eat.

Me? I eat wonderfully rich and healthy food. And love every bite of

it. But I'm broker than broke.

Lis

>

> Hi there!

>

> I was wondering how many people on this list feel that their lives

have become more

> prosperous by moving to a nourishing, real food diet.

>

> I am working on an outline for an e-book that explores the

connection between eating

> " rich " foods like butter fat and pate and the feeling of financial,

emotional or spiritual

> freedom it can offer despite the size of one's bank account or

possible lack of affiliation

> with any religion. Also to be explored are the psychological impact

of basing your

> shopping list on what you have a coupon for, freedom from the price

fluctuations caused

> by the oil crisis and how increased energy, better skin or weight

loss will impact your

> confidence and ability to perform your work better.

>

> Many clients and friends of mine seem to feel they have benefited

psychologically from

> " eating rich " (which, as you know, is sinful in today's world) one

way or another, now I'd

> like to know your experiences. Down the road, I may be looking for

actual testimonials to

> include in the book, but will post for that at that time. Just

wanted to get the general gut

> reactions to this question to see if it strikes a chord with this

group.

>

> Thanks,

> Adrienne

>

March 19, 2008

--- Adrienne <ahewcn@...> wrote:

> I began paying closer attention to people around me who have a ton

> of money and realized that the one thing rich people often will not

> spend money on is food (if they think they can get it cheaper).

> Meanwhile, they waste their money and their time economizing on

> calories and fat grams and believing (in the spirit of no pain, no

> gain) that any food that is good for you must be tasteless and

> tough.

Adrienne,

Dr Mercola has a blog post on " Affluenza " that includes a video. I

haven't watched it yet, but the name is great.

" This great video talks about the problem of Americans' uncontrollable

desire to buy things they don't need. "

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Do-You-Suffer-from-Affluenza--57645.aspx

I had to post a comment on it

March 19, 2008

>

> mercola¹s real argument is that we only need his products...

>

>> >

>> > --- Adrienne <ahewcn@...> wrote:

>>> >> I began paying closer attention to people around me who have a ton

>>> >> of money and realized that the one thing rich people often will not

>>> >> spend money on is food (if they think they can get it cheaper).

>>> >> Meanwhile, they waste their money and their time economizing on

>>> >> calories and fat grams and believing (in the spirit of no pain, no

>>> >> gain) that any food that is good for you must be tasteless and

>>> >> tough.

>> >

>> > Adrienne,

>> >

>> > Dr Mercola has a blog post on " Affluenza " that includes a video. I

>> > haven't watched it yet, but the name is great.

>> >

>> > " This great video talks about the problem of Americans' uncontrollable

>> > desire to buy things they don't need. "

>> >

>> " >http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Do-You-Suffer-from-Affluenza--57645.

>> asp>

>> <http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Do-You-Suffer-from-Affluenza--57645.a

>> sp> x

>> >

>> > I had to post a comment on it

>> >

March 19, 2008

Enjoyed the video on affluenza, especially the part where it was mentioned that

it is ironic that the most prosperous nations are also the most stressed.

Consumer greed is empty & without a well bonded sense of community it is simply

a throw away society, empty & shallow instead of filled up full.

Materialism=stuff=excess junk=waste, was the message. To fill ourselves up with

respect & dignity we must be self reliant & self sustaining as possible, in a

way that nourishes our very nature through kind-loving nurturing.

Best Always, Jim

<oz4caster@...> wrote:

--- Adrienne <ahewcn@...> wrote:

> I began paying closer attention to people around me who have a ton

> of money and realized that the one thing rich people often will not

> spend money on is food (if they think they can get it cheaper).

> Meanwhile, they waste their money and their time economizing on

> calories and fat grams and believing (in the spirit of no pain, no

> gain) that any food that is good for you must be tasteless and

> tough.

Adrienne,

Dr Mercola has a blog post on " Affluenza " that includes a video. I

haven't watched it yet, but the name is great.

" This great video talks about the problem of Americans' uncontrollable

desire to buy things they don't need. "

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Do-You-Suffer-from-Affluenza--57645.aspx

I had to post a comment on it

Well done is better than well said..., Jim Igo

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

March 19, 2008

--- Gene " Ancient Eyeball Recipe " <implode7@...> wrote:

> mercola¹s real argument is that we only need his products...

Gene, somebody's got to pay for Mercola's web site

That said, I have not found anything I've wanted to purchase there in

quite some time. I bought some books a couple of years ago and at

that time tried the " Whey Healthier " protein powder, which I didn't

like. I found raw dairy at that time and switched to raw.

At least, he does advocate eating real food and does provide a huge

amount of health information - most of which I like. He has a very

large audience and that helps to spread the health message, and even

if it's not always a perfect health message, it's usually much better

than the corresponding conventional health message.

I do like to watch his blog, because he and staff do sometimes dig up

some interesting stuff (though most of it is nothing new). And if you

play nice, you can express your *health* opinions

March 19, 2008

I think that his advice is skewed by his greed....I did notice at one time, some

article on his site entitled something like 'how to get filthy rich by promoting

your own products' or something like that. I didn't read it.

True - he promotes eating real food etc, but I wonder know knowledgeable the guy

really is....he is the only person I've ever heard state, for instance, that

when you scramble eggs, they become oxidized (or something like that) and that

they are bad for you.

I do not agree that you can post on his little forums if you " play nice " . You

probably have no conception of how many posts are deleted from there...now

granted, my experience is with his Ron threads, but I know for a fact that

stuff that simply disagrees with his positions gets deleted from there. And,

yes, I was playing quite nice. One time they left a message on there saying that

I had violated the terms of the online posting agreement, or some such, and I

emailed asking about it. I got a letter, profusely apologizing, and saying that

it was a mistake. However, further emails asking them to take down the public

notice of violation met with no response.

If you post stuff saying things like Native Americans deserved to be massacred

because they weren't christian, the posts will generally be left up. If you post

disagreeing the Ron is god, it will often be removed. Others have

complained online about this also - not just me - but who knows how many of

those are removed.

I would strongly suspect that there is similar censorship on the nutrition

forums.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: " " <oz4caster@...>

> --- Gene " Ancient Eyeball Recipe " <implode7@...> wrote:

> > mercola¹s real argument is that we only need his products...

>

> Gene, somebody's got to pay for Mercola's web site

>

> That said, I have not found anything I've wanted to purchase there in

> quite some time. I bought some books a couple of years ago and at

> that time tried the " Whey Healthier " protein powder, which I didn't

> like. I found raw dairy at that time and switched to raw.

>

> At least, he does advocate eating real food and does provide a huge

> amount of health information - most of which I like. He has a very

> large audience and that helps to spread the health message, and even

> if it's not always a perfect health message, it's usually much better

> than the corresponding conventional health message.

>

> I do like to watch his blog, because he and staff do sometimes dig up

> some interesting stuff (though most of it is nothing new). And if you

> play nice, you can express your *health* opinions

>

March 19, 2008

--- Gene <implode7@...> wrote:

> I think that his advice is skewed by his greed....

Gene, I agree that his advice is sometimes skewed - buyer beware!

> True - he promotes eating real food etc, but I wonder know

> knowledgeable the guy really is....he is the only person I've ever

> heard state, for instance, that when you scramble eggs, they become

> oxidized (or something like that) and that they are bad for you.

I trust Enig more on that one and she says scrambling eggs does

not oxidize the PUFA (it's on a WAPF web page somewhere). But yeah,

I certainly don't believe Mercola knows everything. Nobody does.

Not even M.

> I do not agree that you can post on his little forums if you

> " play nice " .

I said that in regard to *health* topics. I don't go to his blog for

politics. But you're 100% right about other topics. And I suspect

there may be some censorship of health comments as well, if they might

have legal implications.

> I would strongly suspect that there is similar censorship on the

> nutrition forums.

Not this one?

March 19, 2008

I think that people feel better and do better in all areas of their lives when

they listen to their bodies and eat what there bodies say they need. I have

nothing against meat and milk but right now I need real foods as fresh

vegetables and fruits because something tells me that is what I need right now.

I am now adding dairy products back in and would dearly love to make it raw, but

it is expensive and the closest place to me does only goats. Which is ok with

me, I like goat milk but with the cost of gas and the cost of raw milk... I

don't think that will happen any time soon. The best I can do is to buy the

milk that claims it is either organic or at least hormone free. Its not quite as

expensive. Its the hormones that scare me more than anything. I do eat eggs

and try to buy organic when I can. And I do eat fish. I find this list the most

informative and hope to achieve a balance of good meats, dairy, and vegetables

in the future. I have now discovered that grains will never be added back to my

diet except rice occasionally. My neighbor and I are going in together on a

garden this year. I am so looking forward to the produce from there. Maybe

next year I will be well enough to do my own garden.

C.

Real Food and Prosperity

Hi there!

I was wondering how many people on this list feel that their lives have become

more

prosperous by moving to a nourishing, real food diet.

I am working on an outline for an e-book that explores the connection between

eating

" rich " foods like butter fat and pate and the feeling of financial, emotional

or spiritual

freedom it can offer despite the size of one's bank account or possible lack

of affiliation

with any religion. Also to be explored are the psychological impact of basing

your

shopping list on what you have a coupon for, freedom from the price

fluctuations caused

by the oil crisis and how increased energy, better skin or weight loss will

impact your

confidence and ability to perform your work better.

Many clients and friends of mine seem to feel they have benefited

psychologically from

" eating rich " (which, as you know, is sinful in today's world) one way or

another, now I'd

like to know your experiences. Down the road, I may be looking for actual

testimonials to

include in the book, but will post for that at that time. Just wanted to get

the general gut

reactions to this question to see if it strikes a chord with this group.

Thanks,

Adrienne

March 20, 2008

Hi, .

One of the problems with people simply " listening to what their bodies need " is

that if they

haven't transitioned yet to real food (and it sounds like you have, so this is

not about you)

they will be listening to cravings. A diabetic or candida sufferer who merely

listens to their

body may think that an all plant-based diet suits them because it is what the

body is

asking for. Initially they may feel better, if they are not living on Tasty

Kakes, but will likely

end up on the losing end like so many.

I lived 90 minutes from the nearest farm with raw dairy when I started this and

found that

it was worth it to drive there and buy a lot of product then freeze it.

Unfortunately most of

the milk in hfs's is ultrapasteurized and homogenized and not as

organic/pesticide-free

as you might think. I learned from my farmers that supply Natural By Nature that

although

the labeling claims grass-fed, they knew farmers contributing their milk that

were

definitely not putting animals on pasture. I have found that the trade off in

doctor's bills

and overall suffering (I was suicidal over my health problems) was motivation

enough to

cough up the cash even though my husband and I didn't have two nickels to rub

together

12 years ago. My husband was earning $13K/yr and I made about $30/K. But we live

in NJ

where rent was $1000/mo plus utilities and car insurance was about $4/K for the

two of

us. Somehow we were able to pay for the food, doctor bills (insurance did cover

some),

$700/mo for the first few months of supplements, which went down a bit after the

initial

therapy, as well as car repairs (the doctor was also 90 minutes away) and save a

few bucks

as well. We even took a trip to Turkey later that year. Looking back, I think

that I began to

feel so positive and upbeat that my needs decreased proportionately (I certainly

purchased

less skin lotion and cosmetics!).

Perhaps you and your neighbor can take turns going out for the goat milk every

so often.

If he/she is into it, of course.

Thanks for sharing your story. It reminds me of aspects I need to address. Hope

you

continue on the upswing.

Best,

A

>

> I think that people feel better and do better in all areas of their lives when

they listen to

their bodies and eat what there bodies say they need. I have nothing against

meat and

milk but right now I need real foods as fresh vegetables and fruits because

something

tells me that is what I need right now. I am now adding dairy products back in

and would

dearly love to make it raw, but it is expensive and the closest place to me does

only goats.

Which is ok with me, I like goat milk but with the cost of gas and the cost of

raw milk... I

don't think that will happen any time soon. The best I can do is to buy the

milk that

claims it is either organic or at least hormone free. Its not quite as

expensive. Its the

hormones that scare me more than anything. I do eat eggs and try to buy organic

when I

can. And I do eat fish. I find this list the most informative and hope to

achieve a balance

of good meats, dairy, and vegetables in the future. I have now discovered that

grains will

never be added back to my diet except rice occasionally. My neighbor and I are

going in

together on a garden this year. I am so looking forward to the produce from

there. Maybe

next year I will be well enough to do my own garden.

>

> C.

>

March 20, 2008

I'll have to check out Affluenza. Seems to explore one aspect of what my book is

getting

at. My brain is always working on several planes at one time, so I see many

branches on

this tree of prosperity as it can relate to food.

I affectionately refer to JM as " The Guru " , in other words, one stop shopping

for all your

health, political, religious and techie needs. He's like Null on meat.

Cantankerous,

bitter and always " the first " to have done whatever you're doing right now, be

it surfing the

net, recognizing the dangers of vaccines, or knowing what God really wants all

the while

reminding you that you don't have a home in Hawaii and still have to work a 40+

hour

work week while he doesn't even need to see clients anymore. The main difference

between the two is that Mercola can admit when he's made a mistake (at least as

far as

whole grains for everybody goes). Just my two cents. The Guru is taken from a

top ten list

of " Nutritionists to Watch Out For " that I came up with. A few others are " The

Lover " (you

know, the person who seems to be saying " I love you more than I love myself. I'm

so fat

and/or sick because all my energy goes into my clients, but trust me, this

advice will work

wonders for you " ) and " The One Hit Wonder " (the person stricken with some kind

of

disorder, usually a food allergy, that swears if he has it then every other

living creature

has it as well).

It is interesting to see the many turns that this question has taken and perhaps

most

importantly how the definition of prosperity varies from person to person.

Thanks for all

your input. Please keep 'em coming.

Best,

A

>

> Enjoyed the video on affluenza, especially the part where it was mentioned

that it is

ironic that the most prosperous nations are also the most stressed. Consumer

greed is

empty & without a well bonded sense of community it is simply a throw away

society,

empty & shallow instead of filled up full. Materialism=stuff=excess junk=waste,

was the

message. To fill ourselves up with respect & dignity we must be self reliant &

self

sustaining as possible, in a way that nourishes our very nature through

kind-loving

nurturing.

>

> Best Always, Jim

>

March 20, 2008

i agree absolutely with the thoughts below! i began dabbling into the vegetarian

realm and SAD when i was 12 or 13 and my health declined fast from there. i

really believe b/c i was not getting proper nourishment at such a crucial time

in a young girl's life i was not able to distinguish what my body needed, much

less listen to my body. it has taken me up until literally this year (i am 32)

to get to that point. i first learned about WAP/NT when i was 6 weeks postpartum

with my son and before i even got pregnant i was hell bent on being the purist

raw vegan there was. of course when i was pregnant i craved heavy comfort foods

and fell into eating lots of carbs, bread, pasta etc. but still keeping with the

soy myth and eating very little if any at all fat. i was a mess those first 6

weeks and my son did not gain any weight for 3 of them. my chiropractor at the

time is the one who told me to switch my diet immediately and begin eating lots

of fat and protein and whole milk. i literally had to make myself eat this stuff

b/c it did not come naturally and i definitely did not crave it. at the time i

craved juice and fruit b/c that is what i ate most of. i was still brainwashed

to believe that fat was the enemy and had enormous guilt for even enjoying full

fat baby yogurt that at the time was so yummy to me. so the more i read and

researched the more i began to see what it was i was missing and what i should

be eating to be healthy and have healthy milk for my son, who began to gain

weight and look healthier slowly after i changed my diet. i continued to make

myself eat certain things even if i didn't really care for them b/c i knew it

was good for me. a lot of people have disagreed about this with me, but what

else was i supposed to do? i wanted to eat really carby things like pasta all

the time and i would have said no to meat, eggs and especially milk. and believe

me it would have been disasterous. i was so depressed and panicky and anxiety

ridden back then...

to this day if asked what i felt my body craved, i don't think i could tell you.

i am to the point where i know how food makes me feel and i can determine what i

really need, which is mostly fat, but i still have to make myself eat things and

i usually end up eating the same things over and over not only b/c it's easier,

but b/c these foods have an amazing effect on how i feel. and i want to feel

good.

amanda

>One of the problems with people simply " listening to what their bodies need "

is that if they haven't transitioned yet to real food (and it sounds like you

have, so this is not about you)

they will be listening to cravings. A diabetic or candida sufferer who merely

listens to their body may think that an all plant-based diet suits them because

it is what the body is asking for. Initially they may feel better, if they are

not living on Tasty Kakes, but will likely end up on the losing end like so

many.

.

March 20, 2008

Hi, Lis.

You make some excellent points, but I think you missed the premise of what I was

saying

or perhaps I did not express it clearly - which is very typical of me, so thank

you for

bringing my attention to it. I am not suggesting that prosperity only comes in

monetary

form. Some people feel prosperous just because they have time to go fishing or

spend

time with family. Others might experience it as a spiritual connection with

something

greater than the self. And still others feel that the blessings of good health

are enough to

define their prosperity.

I have lived in rural France and Yugoslavia as well as the center of Madrid and

Europeans

across the board live more simple lives than we do, but the distribution of

wealth is more

even and their needs/desires are generally less than ours. Part of it is that

being part of a

more socialist system, they are not raised to think that " the sky is the limit " .

But they (at

least until the last 10 years) cherish the uniqueness of their respective

cultures and

celebrate it. They live by modest means (although many of the people I know

still own

multiple properties, usually handed down through the family) while many

Americans I

know who have far more cash in the bank live in relative squalor. There are many

psychosocial taboos surrounding a display of wealth as well, which is another

area to be

explored.

I also don't mean to say that food is the only path to prosperity. But from a

Law of

Attraction perspective (for lack of better description), if you aim to attract

more financial

wealth into your life, which is what many people in more capitalist societies

want (if not,

need -- to pay for what insurance won't cover. LOL) I think that food is often

an

overlooked connection to that prosperity, while they may have many of the other

principles in place. In a society that generally spends less than 10% of income

on food this

is an easy trapping. There is also another layer of society that probably spends

more on

food than most of us on this list, but don't realize it. They spend it in

restaurants or on

stuff they don't need because they had a coupon or on some kind of get slim (not

healthy)

scheme-- basically they are willing to spend money on anything that takes

responsibility

(and ultimately power) away from them.

As the daughter of Chinese-Jamaican immigrants, I see the trend towards a hip,

tasteless

monoculture within my own family. Many of our family members and friends are

willing to

forego age old wisdom of our centenarian ancestors because some white guy in a

lab coat

said we're backwards, country bumpkins if we don't switch over to the bland,

cheaply

made, toxic swill his boss is selling. I don't believe that these people, just

like the average

native-born Americans, are able to fully experience prosperity without feeling

fulfilled in

all areas of life -- including the richness of food. They have been in the US

and Canada for

decades and now have poor health, but flashy cars. This is not prosperity in my

opinion.

Clearly the healthy immigrants you see buying good food see value in those foods

or they

would just jump on the bandwagon and eat like those around them. Luckily they,

for now,

have decided to hold on to those traditions because they satisfy them on a deep

level. And

while they may seem poor to us, many of them may be far better off than they

were in

their home countries and thus comparatively feel financially prosperous.

If you are seeking financial prosperity, I hope you are able to uncover the

missing link.

When I first started in this path, I was living paycheck to paycheck after a

period of

unemployment and have no idea where the money came from to afford the food let

alone

doctor bills, rent, supplements etc. Little by little, the financial wealth

grew, but my energy

seemed to feel stagnant and I had to take a brutally, honest look at how I was

standing in

my way. I found many contradictions in my behavior (that didn't support where I

was

going with food, BTW), but instead of harping on those, I began putting more

energy in

what I wanted to see instead. Now the energy is in full swing and it feels

wonderful!

Cheers!

Adrienne

>

> I would love it if it were to be true.

>

> But it makes me wonder then, if eating " real food " makes you more

> prosperous, then how come so many people the world over, who still eat

> " traditionally " because that's all they have (barely have) are not

> prosperous?

>

> Or how come everyone in the rural/country areas of France, Greece, and

> Italy (who still eat very rich food) - how come every person there is

> not wealthy - most of those folks in the country areas live very

> simple lives.

>

> And it would make me wonder, why my own ancestors who ate " real food "

> and high fat diets were so poor (but mind you, their health was

> excellent, and they all lived into their 90's). But they were poor.

>

> Personally, I may be totally wrong, but I believe prosperity is based

> on your OWN mind-set. If you are one of the poor people in the world,

> eating " traditional food " and you are wishing you could afford some of

> the new, glamorous food, then you are likely poor (and will remain

> that way because you BELIEVE you are not prosperous).

>

> On the other hand, if you believe eating processed food is

> " prosperous " and shouts to others that you indeed " have arrived " , then

> you are more likely to be prosperous, even if you eat it. Unhealthy.

> But prosperous.

>

> How many very affluent North Americans live in our own neighborhoods,

> have lots of wealth, but would trade it gladly for better health? How

> many affluent North Americans eat " traditionally " - very few.

>

> I think it is all a matter of what you believe, especially what you

> believe about prosperity/money.

>

> I live in the Toronto area, one of the world's greatest melting pots.

> And at the grocery store, you'll see the new immigrants loading up on

> fresh fruits/veggies, kefir, yogurt, milk, meats - good, healthy food.

> But they're poor. Very healthy looking, trim, nice hair and skin. But

> poor.

>

> On the other hand, you'll see the North Americans loading up on

> packaged and processed foods. Overweight. Many with dull skin and

> hair. A percentage of these North Americans have more prosperity, but

> they don't eat well. The majority of these North Americans are " poor " ,

> and they don't eat well. It's more a matter of personal belief, IMO,

> not what you eat.

>

> Me? I eat wonderfully rich and healthy food. And love every bite of

> it. But I'm broker than broke.

>

> Lis

>

March 21, 2008

You are both quite right... you do have to know what to listen for and that

takes a real desire to improve your health through food. So research is key

first...after which you should know that things loaded with sugar and refined

foods are not your friends. Then it is ok to listen when your bodies is telling

you what it needs. BTW adding dairy was a total bust... not ready for it yet..

Of course the question to ask is would it have been different had it been raw?

Re: Real Food and Prosperity

i agree absolutely with the thoughts below! i began dabbling into the

vegetarian realm and SAD when i was 12 or 13 and my health declined fast from

there. i really believe b/c i was not getting proper nourishment at such a

crucial time in a young girl's life i was not able to distinguish what my body

needed, much less listen to my body. it has taken me up until literally this

year (i am 32) to get to that point. i first learned about WAP/NT when i was 6

weeks postpartum with my son and before i even got pregnant i was hell bent on

being the purist raw vegan there was. of course when i was pregnant i craved

heavy comfort foods and fell into eating lots of carbs, bread, pasta etc. but

still keeping with the soy myth and eating very little if any at all fat. i was

a mess those first 6 weeks and my son did not gain any weight for 3 of them. my

chiropractor at the time is the one who told me to switch my diet immediately

and begin eating lots of fat and protein and whole milk. i literally had to make

myself eat this stuff b/c it did not come naturally and i definitely did not

crave it. at the time i craved juice and fruit b/c that is what i ate most of. i

was still brainwashed to believe that fat was the enemy and had enormous guilt

for even enjoying full fat baby yogurt that at the time was so yummy to me. so

the more i read and researched the more i began to see what it was i was missing

and what i should be eating to be healthy and have healthy milk for my son, who

began to gain weight and look healthier slowly after i changed my diet. i

continued to make myself eat certain things even if i didn't really care for

them b/c i knew it was good for me. a lot of people have disagreed about this

with me, but what else was i supposed to do? i wanted to eat really carby things

like pasta all the time and i would have said no to meat, eggs and especially

milk. and believe me it would have been disasterous. i was so depressed and

panicky and anxiety ridden back then...

to this day if asked what i felt my body craved, i don't think i could tell

you. i am to the point where i know how food makes me feel and i can determine

what i really need, which is mostly fat, but i still have to make myself eat

things and i usually end up eating the same things over and over not only b/c

it's easier, but b/c these foods have an amazing effect on how i feel. and i

want to feel good.

amanda

>One of the problems with people simply " listening to what their bodies need "

is that if they haven't transitioned yet to real food (and it sounds like you

have, so this is not about you)

they will be listening to cravings. A diabetic or candida sufferer who merely

listens to their body may think that an all plant-based diet suits them because

it is what the body is asking for. Initially they may feel better, if they are

not living on Tasty Kakes, but will likely end up on the losing end like so

many.

.

March 21, 2008

--- ahewcn <ahewcn@...> wrote:

> You make some excellent points, but I think you

> missed the premise of what I was saying

> or perhaps I did not express it clearly - which is

> very typical of me, so thank you for

> bringing my attention to it.

Unfortunately I still don't quite understand some of

the points you are trying to make. I'll address a few

things below (because I think my comments may possibly

add to your list of things to consider). But if not,

then don't worry about it.

> I am not suggesting

> that prosperity only comes in monetary

> form. Some people feel prosperous just because they

> have time to go fishing or spend

> time with family. Others might experience it as a

> spiritual connection with something

> greater than the self. And still others feel that

> the blessings of good health are enough to

> define their prosperity.

So then is it your belief that people will NOT feel

prosperous in these areas of their lives unless they

are eating rich food (and enjoying it)?

> I have lived in rural France and Yugoslavia as well

> as the center of Madrid and Europeans

> across the board live more simple lives than we do,

> but the distribution of wealth is more

> even and their needs/desires are generally less than

> ours. Part of it is that being part of a

> more socialist system, they are not raised to think

> that " the sky is the limit " . But they (at

> least until the last 10 years) cherish the

> uniqueness of their respective cultures and

> celebrate it. They live by modest means (although

> many of the people I know still own

> multiple properties, usually handed down through the

> family) while many Americans I

> know who have far more cash in the bank live in

> relative squalor. There are many

> psychosocial taboos surrounding a display of wealth

> as well, which is another area to be

> explored.

Yes, I understand Europe is different. But I'm sorry,

I'm not understanding the point you are trying to

make. I hear you saying they have lesser needs, and

wealth is more evenly distributed - how does that

relate to those who live in rural areas who still eat

rich food? Are you trying to say they are more or less

prosperous?

> I also don't mean to say that food is the only path

> to prosperity. But from a Law of

> Attraction perspective (for lack of better

> description), if you aim to attract more financial

> wealth into your life, which is what many people in

> more capitalist societies want (if not,

> need -- to pay for what insurance won't cover. LOL)

> I think that food is often an

> overlooked connection to that prosperity, while they

> may have many of the other

> principles in place. In a society that generally

> spends less than 10% of income on food this

> is an easy trapping.

But you don't necessarily have to pay big money to eat

rich food. Spending more money on food does not mean

that you are eating rich food. The point in my

previous response was that most of the poor ethnic

people were eating food that was more rich, not the

reverse.

I just returned from Whole Foods - a very expensive

grocery store (by comparative standards) in my neck of

the woods. I found myself surrounded by upper income

white people (who are the regular shoppers there).

Usually I am the only non-white person in the entire

store - I could count on one hand the number of

non-white non-affluent folks I've ever seen in there.

What were these prosperous (successful, rich, BMW

driving) people buying? Low-fat food, packaged goods,

the leanest meats possible, and coffee (lots of

coffee). The cheese and dairy departments were almost

empty. The frozen processed food and packaged goods

were flying off the shelves. The fruit and vegetable

department was so packed you couldn't walk straight

through. These VERY AFFLUENT people were NOT buying

rich food. Yet, they were prosperous (at least

financially).

> There is also another layer of

> society that probably spends more on

> food than most of us on this list, but don't realize

> it. They spend it in restaurants or on

> stuff they don't need because they had a coupon or

> on some kind of get slim (not healthy)

> scheme-- basically they are willing to spend money

> on anything that takes responsibility

> (and ultimately power) away from them.

Again, are you saying it is more about how much people

SPEND on food? I thought your original premise was

about the RICHNESS of the food people consume? I took

that literally (i.e. fat, dairy, meat, etc).

> As the daughter of Chinese-Jamaican immigrants, I

> see the trend towards a hip, tasteless

> monoculture within my own family. Many of our family

> members and friends are willing to

> forego age old wisdom of our centenarian ancestors

> because some white guy in a lab coat

> said we're backwards, country bumpkins if we don't

> switch over to the bland, cheaply

> made, toxic swill his boss is selling. I don't

> believe that these people, just like the average

> native-born Americans, are able to fully experience

> prosperity without feeling fulfilled in

> all areas of life -- including the richness of food.

> They have been in the US and Canada for

> decades and now have poor health, but flashy cars.

> This is not prosperity in my opinion.

Here in Toronto, we have one of the largest

populations of Jamaicans outside of Jamaica. By and

large, they continue to eat Jamaican food (just as the

other immigrants eat many of the same food from their

countries of origin). When I go to the " typical "

grocery store, I see them buying goat, oxtail, curry,

yams, fish for frying, chicken, plantains, pork, etc.

I find it difficult to believe that most Jamaicans

(and other immigrants) are buying and consuming

non-rich food, when I seem them buying very rich food,

week after week.

> Clearly the healthy immigrants you see buying good

> food see value in those foods or they

> would just jump on the bandwagon and eat like those

> around them.

Actually, I have to disagree outrightly with this.

They buy the rich food, because it is cheaper

(processed, packaged food is more expensive). They can

get a bit of meat and a lot more vegetables for less

money.

Also, I feel they continue to eat rich food because

this is the way they ate previous to arriving here.

They are familiar with meat and vegetables and dairy.

They are not familiar with our brands. And some of

them don't even know enough English to read our

labels.

> Luckily they, for now,

> have decided to hold on to those traditions because

> they satisfy them on a deep level. And

> while they may seem poor to us, many of them may be

> far better off than they were in

> their home countries and thus comparatively feel

> financially prosperous.

It's hard to say if they feel prosperous. In some

cases, they would feel more successful because they

managed to transition to a new country. In other ways,

they would feel less fulfilled, because they've left

behind the familiar, as well as friends and family.

More successful? Less fulfilled? More or less

prosperous? I think prosperity could only be measured

on a person by person basis, not based on whether or

not they are eating rich food.

Personally I don't see a correlation between rich food

and prosperity. But you are determined to see one. All

I ask is that you at least consider some of my points,

no matter how anxious you are to believe the opposite.

And if I've totally misunderstood and/or am totally

out to lunch, then let us at least hope it is a " rich "

lunch

Lis

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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March 21, 2008

Wow, .

Thank you so much for sharing your story. A friend of mine had a similar

experience. In

her case, however, she had to change her diet once she found out that her son

was autistic

and all the foods she was eating were making him worse. She couldn't even touch

meat at

first, but craved it once she started eating it. In fact she ate beef every

night for at least

the first month -- but her husband had to cook it.

I am glad that your new diet has you feeling better and your son growing strong.

I

commend you for being open and conscious enough to make such drastic changes --

not

that you need my approval, but I find stories like yours very heartening. It is

always weird

for others to understand that there is yet another way to eat and that SAD and

vegetarianism in its many forms are not the only ones. My husband's co-worker is

diabetic

and is going from SAD to vegetarianism and its not looking good, but it makes

her feel

better to be part of a popular crowd in the office.

Congratulations to you though!

Adrienne

>

> i agree absolutely with the thoughts below! i began dabbling into the

vegetarian realm

and SAD when i was 12 or 13 and my health declined fast from there. i really

believe b/c i

was not getting proper nourishment at such a crucial time in a young girl's life

i was not

able to distinguish what my body needed, much less listen to my body. it has

taken me up

until literally this year (i am 32) to get to that point. i first learned about

WAP/NT when i

was 6 weeks postpartum with my son and before i even got pregnant i was hell

bent on

being the purist raw vegan there was. of course when i was pregnant i craved

heavy

comfort foods and fell into eating lots of carbs, bread, pasta etc. but still

keeping with the

soy myth and eating very little if any at all fat. i was a mess those first 6

weeks and my

son did not gain any weight for 3 of them. my chiropractor at the time is the

one who told

me to switch my diet immediately and begin eating lots of fat and protein and

whole milk.

i literally had to make myself eat this stuff b/c it did not come naturally and

i definitely did

not crave it. at the time i craved juice and fruit b/c that is what i ate most

of. i was still

brainwashed to believe that fat was the enemy and had enormous guilt for even

enjoying

full fat baby yogurt that at the time was so yummy to me. so the more i read and

researched the more i began to see what it was i was missing and what i should

be eating

to be healthy and have healthy milk for my son, who began to gain weight and

look

healthier slowly after i changed my diet. i continued to make myself eat certain

things even

if i didn't really care for them b/c i knew it was good for me. a lot of people

have

disagreed about this with me, but what else was i supposed to do? i wanted to

eat really

carby things like pasta all the time and i would have said no to meat, eggs and

especially

milk. and believe me it would have been disasterous. i was so depressed and

panicky and

anxiety ridden back then...

>

> to this day if asked what i felt my body craved, i don't think i could tell

you. i am to the

point where i know how food makes me feel and i can determine what i really

need, which

is mostly fat, but i still have to make myself eat things and i usually end up

eating the

same things over and over not only b/c it's easier, but b/c these foods have an

amazing

effect on how i feel. and i want to feel good.

>

> amanda

>

> >One of the problems with people simply " listening to what their bodies

need " is that

if they haven't transitioned yet to real food (and it sounds like you have, so

this is not

about you)

> they will be listening to cravings. A diabetic or candida sufferer who

merely listens to

their body may think that an all plant-based diet suits them because it is what

the body is

asking for. Initially they may feel better, if they are not living on Tasty

Kakes, but will likely

end up on the losing end like so many.

>

> .

>

March 21, 2008

>

> Unfortunately I still don't quite understand some of

> the points you are trying to make. I'll address a few

> things below (because I think my comments may possibly

> add to your list of things to consider). But if not,

> then don't worry about it.

>

I always consider everything. It helps me fine tune my message. I have a lot of

ideas in my

head and input helps me see where I can make any concept more accessible.

> > I am not suggesting

> > that prosperity only comes in monetary

> > form. Some people feel prosperous just because they

> > have time to go fishing or spend

> > time with family. Others might experience it as a

> > spiritual connection with something

> > greater than the self. And still others feel that

> > the blessings of good health are enough to

> > define their prosperity.

>

> So then is it your belief that people will NOT feel

> prosperous in these areas of their lives unless they

> are eating rich food (and enjoying it)?

Not necessarily. I simply think it has the propensity to limit to the

experience. We tend to

be conditioned to think that anything rich is sinful and deprivation is

virtuous. I think it is

a shame because people could really be enjoying their food -- something that

used to

shape community, family and culture. Right now, I think most people are juggling

a

combination of sugar cravings, guilt and fear, IMO not conducive to enjoying

food.

>

> > I have lived in rural France and Yugoslavia as well

> > as the center of Madrid and Europeans

> > across the board live more simple lives than we do,

> > but the distribution of wealth is more

> > even and their needs/desires are generally less than

> > ours. Part of it is that being part of a

> > more socialist system, they are not raised to think

> > that " the sky is the limit " . But they (at

> > least until the last 10 years) cherish the

> > uniqueness of their respective cultures and

> > celebrate it. They live by modest means (although

> > many of the people I know still own

> > multiple properties, usually handed down through the

> > family) while many Americans I

> > know who have far more cash in the bank live in

> > relative squalor. There are many

> > psychosocial taboos surrounding a display of wealth

> > as well, which is another area to be

> > explored.

>

> Yes, I understand Europe is different. But I'm sorry,

> I'm not understanding the point you are trying to

> make. I hear you saying they have lesser needs, and

> wealth is more evenly distributed - how does that

> relate to those who live in rural areas who still eat

> rich food? Are you trying to say they are more or less

> prosperous?

>

Remember, I said that prosperity is not necessarily having gobs and gobs of

money in the

bank. I know many people throughout Europe who feel prosperous because they feel

have

all they need to feel happy: family, community, free time and kick ass rich

food. My Asian

friends are a different story. Their food is good, but most of them are on

low-fat kicks

and the Japanese ones eat quite a bit of junk food and they all work almost as

much as us.

> > I also don't mean to say that food is the only path

> > to prosperity. But from a Law of

> > Attraction perspective (for lack of better

> > description), if you aim to attract more financial

> > wealth into your life, which is what many people in

> > more capitalist societies want (if not,

> > need -- to pay for what insurance won't cover. LOL)

> > I think that food is often an

> > overlooked connection to that prosperity, while they

> > may have many of the other

> > principles in place. In a society that generally

> > spends less than 10% of income on food this

> > is an easy trapping.

>

> But you don't necessarily have to pay big money to eat

> rich food. Spending more money on food does not mean

> that you are eating rich food. The point in my

> previous response was that most of the poor ethnic

> people were eating food that was more rich, not the

> reverse.

I know that. I don't spend huge amounts of money on food, but I spend more on

select

items. I haven't been to Toronto in about 20 years, but in the US processed food

is

available at all price points. Today, I just heard on the radio that a woman

wrote a 99 Cent

Store Cookbook. I have seen people eating these foods because they choose to

think that

buying canned vegetables differs very little from buying fresh ones in the

supermarket.

>

> I just returned from Whole Foods - a very expensive

> grocery store (by comparative standards) in my neck of

> the woods. I found myself surrounded by upper income

> white people (who are the regular shoppers there).

> Usually I am the only non-white person in the entire

> store - I could count on one hand the number of

> non-white non-affluent folks I've ever seen in there.

>

> What were these prosperous (successful, rich, BMW

> driving) people buying? Low-fat food, packaged goods,

> the leanest meats possible, and coffee (lots of

> coffee). The cheese and dairy departments were almost

> empty. The frozen processed food and packaged goods

> were flying off the shelves. The fruit and vegetable

> department was so packed you couldn't walk straight

> through. These VERY AFFLUENT people were NOT buying

> rich food. Yet, they were prosperous (at least

> financially).

My sister is one of these VERY AFFLUENT people who buys the crappiest junk she

can find

in WF. She will spend $60K every year or two on a new Infiniti or Mercedes SUV

and lives

in a $2M house in DC, but spends an obsessive amount of time counting calories

and fat

grams and choosing cheap-o Horizon milk in the store because raw milk is too

expensive.

This food clearly does not satisfy her because her family goes out of their way

to be

distracted at mealtime or simply eats over the sink or in the car. Many of my

clients find

that when they turn off the distractions and pay attention to their food, they

really don't

enjoy the low-fat crap as much as they thought they did and are able to savor

the rich

foods they rejected before. I don't have nearly the amount of money my sister

has, but I

always feel more prosperous than her because I've allowed my life to slow down

enough to

accommodate those things I truly enjoy, including food. Back when I barely had

any

money, my friends from Hong Kong commented on what a luxurious life I lead

similar to

the lives their rural grandparents led in France (they both were raised in

France).

>

> > There is also another layer of

> > society that probably spends more on

> > food than most of us on this list, but don't realize

> > it. They spend it in restaurants or on

> > stuff they don't need because they had a coupon or

> > on some kind of get slim (not healthy)

> > scheme-- basically they are willing to spend money

> > on anything that takes responsibility

> > (and ultimately power) away from them.

>

> Again, are you saying it is more about how much people

> SPEND on food? I thought your original premise was

> about the RICHNESS of the food people consume? I took

> that literally (i.e. fat, dairy, meat, etc).

>

This is just another aspect of the same premise. As a nutritionist, most people

tell me they

can't afford to eat better, but has the money. It's just another excuse that

people give not

to change their habits even if it can benefit them. I do stress that this

doesn't need to cost

much, but... people get in their own way. Some people just love being miserable.

> > As the daughter of Chinese-Jamaican immigrants, I

> > see the trend towards a hip, tasteless

> > monoculture within my own family. Many of our family

> > members and friends are willing to

> > forego age old wisdom of our centenarian ancestors

> > because some white guy in a lab coat

> > said we're backwards, country bumpkins if we don't

> > switch over to the bland, cheaply

> > made, toxic swill his boss is selling. I don't

> > believe that these people, just like the average

> > native-born Americans, are able to fully experience

> > prosperity without feeling fulfilled in

> > all areas of life -- including the richness of food.

> > They have been in the US and Canada for

> > decades and now have poor health, but flashy cars.

> > This is not prosperity in my opinion.

>

> Here in Toronto, we have one of the largest

> populations of Jamaicans outside of Jamaica. By and

> large, they continue to eat Jamaican food (just as the

> other immigrants eat many of the same food from their

> countries of origin). When I go to the " typical "

> grocery store, I see them buying goat, oxtail, curry,

> yams, fish for frying, chicken, plantains, pork, etc.

> I find it difficult to believe that most Jamaicans

> (and other immigrants) are buying and consuming

> non-rich food, when I seem them buying very rich food,

> week after week.

The Jamaicans I know live primarily between Toronto and Florida, including NY

where I am

from. Most of them have been here since the 1960s and even the newer arrivals

have

switched to at least some industrialized food -- particularly the vegetable

oils. I just had

an intervention with a cousin of mine back in JA who is suffering from several

health

problems and doesn't see the correlation between Doritos and what's going on.

They have

all that crap there. My experience has been that immigrants essentially keep to

the meats

and vegetables they ate back home, but use the PC oils and consume sweets, sodas

and

other junk far more frequently than they did in their countries of origin. Then

they can't

figure out why they gained so much weight when they got here. Well, actually now

they

blame it on meat.

>

> > Clearly the healthy immigrants you see buying good

> > food see value in those foods or they

> > would just jump on the bandwagon and eat like those

> > around them.

>

> Actually, I have to disagree outrightly with this.

> They buy the rich food, because it is cheaper

> (processed, packaged food is more expensive). They can

> get a bit of meat and a lot more vegetables for less

> money.

>

Again, the 99 cent store sells packaged food too. One thing I agree with the

experts about

is that obesity in low income neighborhoods is in large part due to the

availability of cheap

processed foods. At least on the east coast, there are few markets that sell

fresh food in

low income neighborhoods.

> Also, I feel they continue to eat rich food because

> this is the way they ate previous to arriving here.

> They are familiar with meat and vegetables and dairy.

> They are not familiar with our brands. And some of

> them don't even know enough English to read our

> labels.

>

True, but they do replace the fats and oils in particular with industrial ones.

And if they

have kids here, the junk food will eventually follow.

> > Luckily they, for now,

> > have decided to hold on to those traditions because

> > they satisfy them on a deep level. And

> > while they may seem poor to us, many of them may be

> > far better off than they were in

> > their home countries and thus comparatively feel

> > financially prosperous.

>

> It's hard to say if they feel prosperous. In some

> cases, they would feel more successful because they

> managed to transition to a new country. In other ways,

> they would feel less fulfilled, because they've left

> behind the familiar, as well as friends and family.

> More successful? Less fulfilled? More or less

> prosperous? I think prosperity could only be measured

> on a person by person basis, not based on whether or

> not they are eating rich food.

There is almost always a bittersweet sentiment when moving to new surroundings,

particularly when the culture and language are different. I'm not sure how

differently I can

say it so that you see I am essentially saying the same thing as you are.

Prosperity can be

measured in many ways and each person may have a different way of feeling

prosperous.

But what you don't seem to get is that I am not trying to determine for others

what will

make them prosperous. I am just offering another avenue to consider. One that

offers me

and many others a feeling of comfort and satisfaction when everything else seems

to be

going wrong. Since most of us eat at least 3 times per day, the messages we send

ourselves about food will inevitably manifest in other areas of life. I FEEL

that if we see

rich anything as bad or sinful, we will feel bad or sinful if we become rich,

healthy, or

content with any area of our lives. Sorta like misery loves company. Ya know?

>

> Personally I don't see a correlation between rich food

> and prosperity. But you are determined to see one. All

> I ask is that you at least consider some of my points,

> no matter how anxious you are to believe the opposite.

That's cool. I'm not trying to change the world or even you. If I am determined

to see this

correlation, then you are determined not to see it. I see no harm in exploring

this

possibility and I am sorry that it upsets you so much. Until you, everybody on a

WAP-

esque diet that I have talked to about this (many of whom are harsh, pragmatic

critics) said

that they do feel a sense of privilege, prosperity or fulfillment since

embracing all the

whole foods including rich fats and meats. So it is good to know that it still

does leave

some people's glass half empty. I actually assumed that it did (not fulfill

everyone).

Nonetheless I just think it is an interesting avenue to investigate, not to

provide all the

answers for. Obviously, like anything worthwhile, this cannot be summed up in a

few

sound bytes or paragraphs. It is indeed an intricate web with many layers and

merely an

EXPLORATION.

Good luck!

Adrienne

>

> And if I've totally misunderstood and/or am totally

> out to lunch, then let us at least hope it is a " rich "

> lunch

>

> Lis

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Search.

http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

>

March 22, 2008

Adrienne,

I get what you are saying, but there is a cost to changing over to what you

refer to as a rich diet. If you are like me, on too many drugs and supplements,

many of which you have to keep taking while you are making the change over, the

cost can be tough to bear. Plus, if you are like me, you don't know much about

fruits and vegetables and raw and organic dairy and meats so there tends to be

alot of waste initially. Plus I have the added disadvantage of not being able

to consume grains except rice, which are a bit less expensive than the other

stuff. And then there is the cooking and prep time. For some, that's hard to

fit in initially. I don't have a time problem, I have an energy problem and for

a time a mobility problem. Initially it was very tough for me. Now I am

starting to feel better and I am becoming familar with the different foods and

preparation of my meals is much easier now. But it is hard to change a lifetime

of bad habits, especially when everyone else has joined in. And sometimes, even

if you have a live in example of good eating, it still doesn't help. I live

with my sister who eats one of the worst diets ever and is a diabetic. She is

seeing the changes in me and still refuses to even consider such a thing..... I

have a long way to go but in just about 4 months I have seen much improvement in

my health. My pocket book still suffers and I must continue to juggle food and

medical needs. My goal is to be able to eat even richer as the need for the

medical outlay goes down. I hope this adds to your research.

Re: Real Food and Prosperity

>

> Unfortunately I still don't quite understand some of

> the points you are trying to make. I'll address a few

> things below (because I think my comments may possibly

> add to your list of things to consider). But if not,

> then don't worry about it.

>

I always consider everything. It helps me fine tune my message. I have a lot

of ideas in my

head and input helps me see where I can make any concept more accessible.

> > I am not suggesting

> > that prosperity only comes in monetary

> > form. Some people feel prosperous just because they

> > have time to go fishing or spend

> > time with family. Others might experience it as a

> > spiritual connection with something

> > greater than the self. And still others feel that

> > the blessings of good health are enough to

> > define their prosperity.

>

> So then is it your belief that people will NOT feel

> prosperous in these areas of their lives unless they

> are eating rich food (and enjoying it)?

Not necessarily. I simply think it has the propensity to limit to the

experience. We tend to

be conditioned to think that anything rich is sinful and deprivation is

virtuous. I think it is

a shame because people could really be enjoying their food -- something that

used to

shape community, family and culture. Right now, I think most people are

juggling a

combination of sugar cravings, guilt and fear, IMO not conducive to enjoying

food.

>

> > I have lived in rural France and Yugoslavia as well

> > as the center of Madrid and Europeans

> > across the board live more simple lives than we do,

> > but the distribution of wealth is more

> > even and their needs/desires are generally less than

> > ours. Part of it is that being part of a

> > more socialist system, they are not raised to think

> > that " the sky is the limit " . But they (at

> > least until the last 10 years) cherish the

> > uniqueness of their respective cultures and

> > celebrate it. They live by modest means (although

> > many of the people I know still own

> > multiple properties, usually handed down through the

> > family) while many Americans I

> > know who have far more cash in the bank live in

> > relative squalor. There are many

> > psychosocial taboos surrounding a display of wealth

> > as well, which is another area to be

> > explored.

>

> Yes, I understand Europe is different. But I'm sorry,

> I'm not understanding the point you are trying to

> make. I hear you saying they have lesser needs, and

> wealth is more evenly distributed - how does that

> relate to those who live in rural areas who still eat

> rich food? Are you trying to say they are more or less

> prosperous?

>

Remember, I said that prosperity is not necessarily having gobs and gobs of

money in the

bank. I know many people throughout Europe who feel prosperous because they

feel have

all they need to feel happy: family, community, free time and kick ass rich

food. My Asian

friends are a different story. Their food is good, but most of them are on

low-fat kicks

and the Japanese ones eat quite a bit of junk food and they all work almost as

much as us.

> > I also don't mean to say that food is the only path

> > to prosperity. But from a Law of

> > Attraction perspective (for lack of better

> > description), if you aim to attract more financial

> > wealth into your life, which is what many people in

> > more capitalist societies want (if not,

> > need -- to pay for what insurance won't cover. LOL)

> > I think that food is often an

> > overlooked connection to that prosperity, while they

> > may have many of the other

> > principles in place. In a society that generally

> > spends less than 10% of income on food this

> > is an easy trapping.

>

> But you don't necessarily have to pay big money to eat

> rich food. Spending more money on food does not mean

> that you are eating rich food. The point in my

> previous response was that most of the poor ethnic

> people were eating food that was more rich, not the

> reverse.

I know that. I don't spend huge amounts of money on food, but I spend more on

select

items. I haven't been to Toronto in about 20 years, but in the US processed

food is

available at all price points. Today, I just heard on the radio that a woman

wrote a 99 Cent

Store Cookbook. I have seen people eating these foods because they choose to

think that

buying canned vegetables differs very little from buying fresh ones in the

supermarket.

>

> I just returned from Whole Foods - a very expensive

> grocery store (by comparative standards) in my neck of

> the woods. I found myself surrounded by upper income

> white people (who are the regular shoppers there).

> Usually I am the only non-white person in the entire

> store - I could count on one hand the number of

> non-white non-affluent folks I've ever seen in there.

>

> What were these prosperous (successful, rich, BMW

> driving) people buying? Low-fat food, packaged goods,

> the leanest meats possible, and coffee (lots of

> coffee). The cheese and dairy departments were almost

> empty. The frozen processed food and packaged goods

> were flying off the shelves. The fruit and vegetable

> department was so packed you couldn't walk straight

> through. These VERY AFFLUENT people were NOT buying

> rich food. Yet, they were prosperous (at least

> financially).

My sister is one of these VERY AFFLUENT people who buys the crappiest junk she

can find

in WF. She will spend $60K every year or two on a new Infiniti or Mercedes SUV

and lives

in a $2M house in DC, but spends an obsessive amount of time counting calories

and fat

grams and choosing cheap-o Horizon milk in the store because raw milk is too

expensive.

This food clearly does not satisfy her because her family goes out of their

way to be

distracted at mealtime or simply eats over the sink or in the car. Many of my

clients find

that when they turn off the distractions and pay attention to their food, they

really don't

enjoy the low-fat crap as much as they thought they did and are able to savor

the rich

foods they rejected before. I don't have nearly the amount of money my sister

has, but I

always feel more prosperous than her because I've allowed my life to slow down

enough to

accommodate those things I truly enjoy, including food. Back when I barely had

any

money, my friends from Hong Kong commented on what a luxurious life I lead

similar to

the lives their rural grandparents led in France (they both were raised in

France).

>

> > There is also another layer of

> > society that probably spends more on

> > food than most of us on this list, but don't realize

> > it. They spend it in restaurants or on

> > stuff they don't need because they had a coupon or

> > on some kind of get slim (not healthy)

> > scheme-- basically they are willing to spend money

> > on anything that takes responsibility

> > (and ultimately power) away from them.

>

> Again, are you saying it is more about how much people

> SPEND on food? I thought your original premise was

> about the RICHNESS of the food people consume? I took

> that literally (i.e. fat, dairy, meat, etc).

>

This is just another aspect of the same premise. As a nutritionist, most

people tell me they

can't afford to eat better, but has the money. It's just another excuse that

people give not

to change their habits even if it can benefit them. I do stress that this

doesn't need to cost

much, but... people get in their own way. Some people just love being

miserable.

> > As the daughter of Chinese-Jamaican immigrants, I

> > see the trend towards a hip, tasteless

> > monoculture within my own family. Many of our family

> > members and friends are willing to

> > forego age old wisdom of our centenarian ancestors

> > because some white guy in a lab coat

> > said we're backwards, country bumpkins if we don't

> > switch over to the bland, cheaply

> > made, toxic swill his boss is selling. I don't

> > believe that these people, just like the average

> > native-born Americans, are able to fully experience

> > prosperity without feeling fulfilled in

> > all areas of life -- including the richness of food.

> > They have been in the US and Canada for

> > decades and now have poor health, but flashy cars.

> > This is not prosperity in my opinion.

>

> Here in Toronto, we have one of the largest

> populations of Jamaicans outside of Jamaica. By and

> large, they continue to eat Jamaican food (just as the

> other immigrants eat many of the same food from their

> countries of origin). When I go to the " typical "

> grocery store, I see them buying goat, oxtail, curry,

> yams, fish for frying, chicken, plantains, pork, etc.

> I find it difficult to believe that most Jamaicans

> (and other immigrants) are buying and consuming

> non-rich food, when I seem them buying very rich food,

> week after week.

The Jamaicans I know live primarily between Toronto and Florida, including NY

where I am

from. Most of them have been here since the 1960s and even the newer arrivals

have

switched to at least some industrialized food -- particularly the vegetable

oils. I just had

an intervention with a cousin of mine back in JA who is suffering from several

health

problems and doesn't see the correlation between Doritos and what's going on.

They have

all that crap there. My experience has been that immigrants essentially keep

to the meats

and vegetables they ate back home, but use the PC oils and consume sweets,

sodas and

other junk far more frequently than they did in their countries of origin.

Then they can't

figure out why they gained so much weight when they got here. Well, actually

now they

blame it on meat.

>

> > Clearly the healthy immigrants you see buying good

> > food see value in those foods or they

> > would just jump on the bandwagon and eat like those

> > around them.

>

> Actually, I have to disagree outrightly with this.

> They buy the rich food, because it is cheaper

> (processed, packaged food is more expensive). They can

> get a bit of meat and a lot more vegetables for less

> money.

>

Again, the 99 cent store sells packaged food too. One thing I agree with the

experts about

is that obesity in low income neighborhoods is in large part due to the

availability of cheap

processed foods. At least on the east coast, there are few markets that sell

fresh food in

low income neighborhoods.

> Also, I feel they continue to eat rich food because

> this is the way they ate previous to arriving here.

> They are familiar with meat and vegetables and dairy.

> They are not familiar with our brands. And some of

> them don't even know enough English to read our

> labels.

>

True, but they do replace the fats and oils in particular with industrial

ones. And if they

have kids here, the junk food will eventually follow.

> > Luckily they, for now,

> > have decided to hold on to those traditions because

> > they satisfy them on a deep level. And

> > while they may seem poor to us, many of them may be

> > far better off than they were in

> > their home countries and thus comparatively feel

> > financially prosperous.

>

> It's hard to say if they feel prosperous. In some

> cases, they would feel more successful because they

> managed to transition to a new country. In other ways,

> they would feel less fulfilled, because they've left

> behind the familiar, as well as friends and family.

> More successful? Less fulfilled? More or less

> prosperous? I think prosperity could only be measured

> on a person by person basis, not based on whether or

> not they are eating rich food.

There is almost always a bittersweet sentiment when moving to new

surroundings,

particularly when the culture and language are different. I'm not sure how

differently I can

say it so that you see I am essentially saying the same thing as you are.

Prosperity can be

measured in many ways and each person may have a different way of feeling

prosperous.

But what you don't seem to get is that I am not trying to determine for others

what will

make them prosperous. I am just offering another avenue to consider. One that

offers me

and many others a feeling of comfort and satisfaction when everything else

seems to be

going wrong. Since most of us eat at least 3 times per day, the messages we

send

ourselves about food will inevitably manifest in other areas of life. I FEEL

that if we see

rich anything as bad or sinful, we will feel bad or sinful if we become rich,

healthy, or

content with any area of our lives. Sorta like misery loves company. Ya know?

>

> Personally I don't see a correlation between rich food

> and prosperity. But you are determined to see one. All

> I ask is that you at least consider some of my points,

> no matter how anxious you are to believe the opposite.

That's cool. I'm not trying to change the world or even you. If I am

determined to see this

correlation, then you are determined not to see it. I see no harm in exploring

this

possibility and I am sorry that it upsets you so much. Until you, everybody on

a WAP-

esque diet that I have talked to about this (many of whom are harsh, pragmatic

critics) said

that they do feel a sense of privilege, prosperity or fulfillment since

embracing all the

whole foods including rich fats and meats. So it is good to know that it still

does leave

some people's glass half empty. I actually assumed that it did (not fulfill

everyone).

Nonetheless I just think it is an interesting avenue to investigate, not to

provide all the

answers for. Obviously, like anything worthwhile, this cannot be summed up in

a few

sound bytes or paragraphs. It is indeed an intricate web with many layers and

merely an

EXPLORATION.

Good luck!

Adrienne

>

> And if I've totally misunderstood and/or am totally

> out to lunch, then let us at least hope it is a " rich "

> lunch

>

> Lis

>

__________________________________________________________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?

> Find them fast with Search.

http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

>

March 22, 2008

I wholeheartedly agree with you, . Remember, I've been there too -- in many

respects

and also not able to eat grains as well. Asian markets and cooking came in very

handy for

alternatives to whatever I wasn't allowed to eat. But you do have the motivation

which is

key. You are motivated by the promise of improved health which will enable you

to enjoy

life more and dedicate more time to fulfillment in other areas. With some

ingenuity and

doing things like making stock, you will be able to manage your budget better.

And once

your nutritional stores are reinstated, you will find that it takes only a

little of the rich

foods to satisfy you. It's not so much about forcing yourself to eat rich as

much as it is

allowing yourself to enjoy rich. I admit that I was lucky my husband has always

been

sensitive to my needs. But then again, I never had any foods that I'd call a

real vice either.

Most of our friends have tried to tempt us to do whatever they do, but as soon

as we

started on this we couldn't make a good enough excuse to go back. And while they

tried to

tell us we were wasting our time, we knew it was their fears of giving up their

past that

was the source of their comments.

Sorry dairy isn't working out for you. What did you try? The only dairy I could

eat was

cream (my local hfs carried some from smaller dairies and I cultured it) and

butter because

I was unable to get raw. Raw makes a huge difference. So you may want to

experiment --

even culturing the raw stuff -- as time goes on.

I have always found that every leap of faith I have taken has yielded incredible

results. Like

putting my final semester of college on a credit card when I was making $4/hr

and paying

$500/mo in rent in NYC. One month later, I landed a $27K/yr job and paid off the

cc

within 4 months. Have you ever had such an experience? A lot of this is about

trust. Thank

you for your comments. I certainly plan to include this scenario as one of the

places

readers might be coming from.

>

> Adrienne,

>

> I get what you are saying, but there is a cost to changing over to what you

refer to as a

rich diet. If you are like me, on too many drugs and supplements, many of which

you have

to keep taking while you are making the change over, the cost can be tough to

bear. Plus,

if you are like me, you don't know much about fruits and vegetables and raw and

organic

dairy and meats so there tends to be alot of waste initially. Plus I have the

added

disadvantage of not being able to consume grains except rice, which are a bit

less

expensive than the other stuff. And then there is the cooking and prep time.

For some,

that's hard to fit in initially. I don't have a time problem, I have an energy

problem and for

a time a mobility problem. Initially it was very tough for me. Now I am

starting to feel

better and I am becoming familar with the different foods and preparation of my

meals is

much easier now. But it is hard to change a lifetime of bad habits, especially

when

everyone else has joined in. And sometimes, even if you have a live in example

of good

eating, it still doesn't help. I live with my sister who eats one of the worst

diets ever and is

a diabetic. She is seeing the changes in me and still refuses to even consider

such a

thing..... I have a long way to go but in just about 4 months I have seen much

improvement in my health. My pocket book still suffers and I must continue to

juggle

food and medical needs. My goal is to be able to eat even richer as the need

for the

medical outlay goes down. I hope this adds to your research.

>

March 22, 2008

Ah cooking... I am slowly getting there. And when your only doing for one it

is hard. Luckily, I am one of these people who can eat leftovers for a long

time before I get fed up with it and won't eat it for awhile. Oh and you need

containers, even bags to freeze extra soup or stock... there is definitely extra

initial costs.

On Dairy... butter is ok.. never gave that up and I am guessing heavy cream is

ok.. I think is was a couple glasses of milk and maybe the yogurt that did me

in, but I am not sure. Off the yogurt and no more milk for a while, then I will

try some cream. I may even try to contact that raw milk goat farm later.

Unfortunately I ended up with a 6 day stay in the hosp for pneumonia in February

so more bills I had hoped to avoid this year. I was looking forward to

increasing my food budget in June or July... now it looks like

December/January...

Right now I am on disability income from SSD so like I said, money is tight but

I am a great budgeter and money usually comes when I need it the most. A few

months ago I finally made the decision to increase my food budget to buy better

foods and decided first to go with fruits and vegetables while deciding which

way I wanted or needed to go and do the research. I have never totally given up

meat, just haven't been wanting any.

The biggest change has been now my food budget is the last place I cut now

instead of the first.

Re: Real Food and Prosperity

I wholeheartedly agree with you, . Remember, I've been there too -- in

many respects

and also not able to eat grains as well. Asian markets and cooking came in

very handy for

alternatives to whatever I wasn't allowed to eat. But you do have the

motivation which is

key. You are motivated by the promise of improved health which will enable you

to enjoy

life more and dedicate more time to fulfillment in other areas. With some

ingenuity and

doing things like making stock, you will be able to manage your budget better.

And once

your nutritional stores are reinstated, you will find that it takes only a

little of the rich

foods to satisfy you. It's not so much about forcing yourself to eat rich as

much as it is

allowing yourself to enjoy rich. I admit that I was lucky my husband has

always been

sensitive to my needs. But then again, I never had any foods that I'd call a

real vice either.

Most of our friends have tried to tempt us to do whatever they do, but as soon

as we

started on this we couldn't make a good enough excuse to go back. And while

they tried to

tell us we were wasting our time, we knew it was their fears of giving up

their past that

was the source of their comments.

Sorry dairy isn't working out for you. What did you try? The only dairy I

could eat was

cream (my local hfs carried some from smaller dairies and I cultured it) and

butter because

I was unable to get raw. Raw makes a huge difference. So you may want to

experiment --

even culturing the raw stuff -- as time goes on.

I have always found that every leap of faith I have taken has yielded

incredible results. Like

putting my final semester of college on a credit card when I was making $4/hr

and paying

$500/mo in rent in NYC. One month later, I landed a $27K/yr job and paid off

the cc

within 4 months. Have you ever had such an experience? A lot of this is about

trust. Thank

you for your comments. I certainly plan to include this scenario as one of the

places

readers might be coming from.

>

> Adrienne,

>

> I get what you are saying, but there is a cost to changing over to what you

refer to as a

rich diet. If you are like me, on too many drugs and supplements, many of

which you have

to keep taking while you are making the change over, the cost can be tough to

bear. Plus,

if you are like me, you don't know much about fruits and vegetables and raw

and organic

dairy and meats so there tends to be alot of waste initially. Plus I have the

added

disadvantage of not being able to consume grains except rice, which are a bit

less

expensive than the other stuff. And then there is the cooking and prep time.

For some,

that's hard to fit in initially. I don't have a time problem, I have an energy

problem and for

a time a mobility problem. Initially it was very tough for me. Now I am

starting to feel

better and I am becoming familar with the different foods and preparation of

my meals is

much easier now. But it is hard to change a lifetime of bad habits, especially

when

everyone else has joined in. And sometimes, even if you have a live in example

of good

eating, it still doesn't help. I live with my sister who eats one of the worst

diets ever and is

a diabetic. She is seeing the changes in me and still refuses to even consider

such a

thing..... I have a long way to go but in just about 4 months I have seen much

improvement in my health. My pocket book still suffers and I must continue to

juggle

food and medical needs. My goal is to be able to eat even richer as the need

for the

medical outlay goes down. I hope this adds to your research.

>

March 22, 2008

Sounds like you definitely have a plan and have set your priorities. That is

fundamental.

Before I found this path, I cooked for one for several years. Sunday was my big

cooking

day and I'd make 3 or 4 dishes for the week. Some would get frozen (at the time

I recycled

yogurt containers, was given a few smallish corning ware type dishes and found

the rest at

discount stores-- actually just got an excellent deal at Tuesday Morning) and

others

would stay in the fridge for the first few days. Leftovers were for lunch at

work. Figure if

most recipes are for 4, then you can get 2 lunches and 2 dinners from each

recipe. Yes,

there are initial costs, but no one says you need to lay them all out

simultaneously. Make a

list of what you'd like to accomplish and an approximate date, but don't let the

date

pressure you. It just helps focus your energy. I did this for both houses my

husband and I

have purchased and we got everything we wanted -- and we wanted things we

thought

were impossible (like 2 kitchens in this house! one will be for making

lactofermented

sodas and such Hooray!) Another thing I used to do and still do (for the

family only) is

save bones from chops, roasts etc. in the freezer, then simmer them, when I have

enough,

with saved outer onion skins and whatever veggies for stock. I have always hated

waste

and continue to make the most out of whatever I have.

I think that you are right about the cream. Give yourself a few weeks off before

trying it

and only try that so you can recognize the culprit if something should go awry.

Next, I'd

ere toward yogurt (again only yogurt). And finally whole unhomogenized, not

ultrapasteurized milk (I think you already know this)--obviously raw is

preferable, but do

what you can. I notice that I do best on whole milk that has been spiked with

extra cream

even when it's raw.

It's always nice to hear about people who prioritize their food and thus their

health. I think

you are facing this with the right attitude overall and will reach your goal --

despite the

pneumonia set back. Do you qualify for any kind of aid to pay for the hospital

stay? My

plumber/contractor ended up in the hospital for the same reason (as well as for

an

enlarged heart, kidney stuff, exceedingly high blood pressure and a bunch of

other stuff -

- but guess what? his doc says he's healthy!) and said he is applying for some

kind of

assistance. If you want, I'll ask him what it was. We're in NJ, but perhaps

wherever you are

there is something similar. You can always go to your local freecycle group and

post

asking if anyone there knows of anything that would help cover at least some of

your

costs. A friend of mine did that when she was buying a house (asking for

mortgage info)

and someone gave her a lead that ended up getting her a lot more house for less

money

down and a super low interest rate. You can also ask on freecycle if anyone has

corning

ware and other start up things you need that they are giving away.

I gotta go, but please feel free to e-mail me offlist at <heyhew@...>

if you

need a shoulder to cry on or wanna chat.

Blessings,

A

> >

> > Adrienne,

> >

> > I get what you are saying, but there is a cost to changing over to what

you refer to as

a

> rich diet. If you are like me, on too many drugs and supplements, many of

which you

have

> to keep taking while you are making the change over, the cost can be tough

to bear.

Plus,

> if you are like me, you don't know much about fruits and vegetables and raw

and

organic

> dairy and meats so there tends to be alot of waste initially. Plus I have

the added

> disadvantage of not being able to consume grains except rice, which are a

bit less

> expensive than the other stuff. And then there is the cooking and prep time.

For some,

> that's hard to fit in initially. I don't have a time problem, I have an

energy problem and

for

> a time a mobility problem. Initially it was very tough for me. Now I am

starting to feel

> better and I am becoming familar with the different foods and preparation of

my meals

is

> much easier now. But it is hard to change a lifetime of bad habits,

especially when

> everyone else has joined in. And sometimes, even if you have a live in

example of good

> eating, it still doesn't help. I live with my sister who eats one of the

worst diets ever

and is

> a diabetic. She is seeing the changes in me and still refuses to even

consider such a

> thing..... I have a long way to go but in just about 4 months I have seen

much

> improvement in my health. My pocket book still suffers and I must continue

to juggle

> food and medical needs. My goal is to be able to eat even richer as the need

for the

> medical outlay goes down. I hope this adds to your research.

> >

>

March 23, 2008

The state medicaid may kick in and pay the Hospital co pay [they already pay my

medicare premium, but I have to get the bill first. If that doesn't work, I

will check with free-cycle as I already belong to the local one. Never thought

of that as an info source... thanks for the tip.

Re: Real Food and Prosperity

Sounds like you definitely have a plan and have set your priorities. That is

fundamental.

Before I found this path, I cooked for one for several years. Sunday was my

big cooking

day and I'd make 3 or 4 dishes for the week. Some would get frozen (at the

time I recycled

yogurt containers, was given a few smallish corning ware type dishes and found

the rest at

discount stores-- actually just got an excellent deal at Tuesday Morning) and

others

would stay in the fridge for the first few days. Leftovers were for lunch at

work. Figure if

most recipes are for 4, then you can get 2 lunches and 2 dinners from each

recipe. Yes,

there are initial costs, but no one says you need to lay them all out

simultaneously. Make a

list of what you'd like to accomplish and an approximate date, but don't let

the date

pressure you. It just helps focus your energy. I did this for both houses my

husband and I

have purchased and we got everything we wanted -- and we wanted things we

thought

were impossible (like 2 kitchens in this house! one will be for making

lactofermented

sodas and such Hooray!) Another thing I used to do and still do (for the

family only) is

save bones from chops, roasts etc. in the freezer, then simmer them, when I

have enough,

with saved outer onion skins and whatever veggies for stock. I have always

hated waste

and continue to make the most out of whatever I have.

I think that you are right about the cream. Give yourself a few weeks off

before trying it

and only try that so you can recognize the culprit if something should go

awry. Next, I'd

ere toward yogurt (again only yogurt). And finally whole unhomogenized, not

ultrapasteurized milk (I think you already know this)--obviously raw is

preferable, but do

what you can. I notice that I do best on whole milk that has been spiked with

extra cream

even when it's raw.

It's always nice to hear about people who prioritize their food and thus their

health. I think

you are facing this with the right attitude overall and will reach your goal

-- despite the

pneumonia set back. Do you qualify for any kind of aid to pay for the hospital

stay? My

plumber/contractor ended up in the hospital for the same reason (as well as

for an

enlarged heart, kidney stuff, exceedingly high blood pressure and a bunch of

other stuff -

- but guess what? his doc says he's healthy!) and said he is applying for some

kind of

assistance. If you want, I'll ask him what it was. We're in NJ, but perhaps

wherever you are

there is something similar. You can always go to your local freecycle group

and post

asking if anyone there knows of anything that would help cover at least some

of your

costs. A friend of mine did that when she was buying a house (asking for

mortgage info)

and someone gave her a lead that ended up getting her a lot more house for

less money

down and a super low interest rate. You can also ask on freecycle if anyone

has corning

ware and other start up things you need that they are giving away.

I gotta go, but please feel free to e-mail me offlist at

<heyhew@...> if you

need a shoulder to cry on or wanna chat.

Blessings,

A

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