Feeding the nation organically--is it possible?

[Guest guest]

I'm looking for some intelligent documentation about whether it's

POSSIBLE to feed the nation organically. I looked on the WAP site and

I must not be using the right search terms 'cause I can't find

anything relevant.

The reason I'm asking is because a friend of mine believes that all

the big farming is necessary because of the population; that organic

is not viable because it's not efficient enough.

Thanks,

-Tamara

[Guest guest]

> The reason I'm asking is because a friend of mine believes that all

> the big farming is necessary because of the population; that organic

> is not viable because it's not efficient enough.

>

> Thanks,

> -Tamara

You might ask that question on the group, soilandhealth.

There was a discussion there that most " efficiency " calculations do

not include the cost of the mechanized equipment, cost to make

fertilizers, and costs of shipping.

If you take those into account, organic farming closer to markets (as

they do elsewhere around the world) is more cost-effective. If that

is what your friend is asking about efficiency.

But I would agree that our US systems are not set up for that right

now.

Connie

>

[Guest guest]

You might want to google " Cuba " and " organic " .  Cuba has switched all of their

farming to organic. 

 

-

 

From: Tamara <all-natural-nut@...>

Subject: Feeding the nation organically--is it possible?

Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 2:24 PM

I'm looking for some intelligent documentation about whether it's

POSSIBLE to feed the nation organically. I looked on the WAP site and

I must not be using the right search terms 'cause I can't find

anything relevant.

The reason I'm asking is because a friend of mine believes that all

the big farming is necessary because of the population; that organic

is not viable because it's not efficient enough.

Thanks,

-Tamara

[Guest guest]

You might want to google " Cuba " and " organic " .  Cuba has switched all of their

farming to organic. 

 

-

 

From: Tamara <all-natural-nut@...>

Subject: Feeding the nation organically--is it possible?

Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 2:24 PM

I'm looking for some intelligent documentation about whether it's

POSSIBLE to feed the nation organically. I looked on the WAP site and

I must not be using the right search terms 'cause I can't find

anything relevant.

The reason I'm asking is because a friend of mine believes that all

the big farming is necessary because of the population; that organic

is not viable because it's not efficient enough.

Thanks,

-Tamara

[Guest guest]

I heard that most of Italy, too, is organic.

[Guest guest]

I used to live in Italy.  If you go to a typical market in Italy, you can

usually find a couple of farmers who don't use pesticides or whatever, but still

there are a lot of vendors at these markets who are selling stuff from big

agriculture and it definitely isn't organic.

 

The good thing in Italy, at least when I lived there, was that these " organic "

farmers don't know they're " organic " and so sell their goods at non-organic

prices.

 

-

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Fyfe <lisafyfe@...> wrote

I heard that most of Italy, too, is organic.

[Guest guest]

I used to live in Italy.  If you go to a typical market in Italy, you can

usually find a couple of farmers who don't use pesticides or whatever, but still

there are a lot of vendors at these markets who are selling stuff from big

agriculture and it definitely isn't organic.

 

The good thing in Italy, at least when I lived there, was that these " organic "

farmers don't know they're " organic " and so sell their goods at non-organic

prices.

 

-

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Fyfe <lisafyfe@...> wrote

I heard that most of Italy, too, is organic.

[Guest guest]

I'm fearful of that too. As more people become aware of the need to eat

organically it will become very pricey and hard to get. There's just

not enough land to feed us anymore.

On Jul 28, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Tamara wrote:

> 'm looking for some intelligent documentation about whether it's

> POSSIBLE to feed the nation organically. I looked on the WAP site and

> I must not be using the right search terms 'cause I can't find

> anything relevant.

>

> The reason I'm asking is because a friend of mine believes that all

> the big farming is necessary because of the population; that organic

> is not viable because it's not efficient enough.

Parashis

artpages@...

portfolio pages:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/3918

>

> I'm looking for some intelligent documentation about whether it's

> POSSIBLE to feed the nation organically. I looked on the WAP site and

> I must not be using the right search terms 'cause I can't find

> anything relevant.

>

> The reason I'm asking is because a friend of mine believes that all

> the big farming is necessary because of the population; that organic

> is not viable because it's not efficient enough.

>

> Thanks,

> -Tamara

>

[Guest guest]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 7:09 PM, Parashis

<artpages@...> wrote:

> I'm fearful of that too. As more people become aware of the need to eat

> organically it will become very pricey and hard to get. There's just

> not enough land to feed us anymore.

Organic might become pricey and scarce temporarily, but unless there

is some intervention preventing it, supply would increase over time

and prices would ease as entrepreneurs met the increased demand. Also

there is plenty of land available to meet food demands.

--

There's nothing like visiting a foreign country like China to get an

appreciation of what it's like to live under an authoritarian regime.

I was reminded of this when I arrived home and found that the TSA had

rifled through my baggage.

- Tabarrok

[Guest guest]

On 7/28/08, Parashis <artpages@...> wrote:

> I'm fearful of that too. As more people become aware of the need to eat

> organically it will become very pricey and hard to get. There's just

> not enough land to feed us anymore.

A few years ago, Wyoming was 95% wilderness and New England was 80%

forrest. I don't mean to suggest the statistics have changed but they

might be a little bit different because I haven't looked them up very

recently. In any case, I'm under the impression that there is plenty

of land.

Chris

[Guest guest]

I don't think it's a question of efficiency, but a question of where the

calories come from.

Pollan spends a good deal of time explaining this in The Omnivore's

Dilemma: All

the Earth's calories come from the sun. Before World War I, when Fritz Haber

came up with

the process for extracting nitrogen from the air using energy from fossil fuels,

all the

nitrogen used for growing crops was fixed by bacteria using energy from recent

sunlight.

Since the amount of sunlight that Earth receives per year is a constant, there

is an absolute

limit on the food calories that can be produced without fossil fuels. I think

this was

considered to put an upper limit on human population that is below the current

population

- Fritz Haber has been credited with making life possible for billions of

people. Of course

this involves the unsustainable use of chemical fertilizers and depletion of

solar energy

from fossil fuels.

Now I don't know if any of these estimates are accurate - perhaps sunlight can

be used

more fully than it has been in the past - but there a definite limit on the

amount of food

that can be produced organically.

Mike

> >

> > I'm looking for some intelligent documentation about whether it's

> > POSSIBLE to feed the nation organically. I looked on the WAP site and

> > I must not be using the right search terms 'cause I can't find

> > anything relevant.

> >

> > The reason I'm asking is because a friend of mine believes that all

> > the big farming is necessary because of the population; that organic

> > is not viable because it's not efficient enough.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > -Tamara