Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 @ peaberryfarm wrote: >Would sprouted wheat flour be better than plain wheat flour? No. -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia " Darwin's rolling over in his coffin, 'cos the fittest are surviving much less often " - NOFX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Bruce I am experienced in working with the diet of cancer patients the Macrobiotic way and wish to share what I do. You could try giving medium whole brown rice tea by cooking it with 4 times water. In the cooking process, throw in two stamp-size pieces of kombu (a kind of seaweed), boil for 20-30 minutes, strain into a cup. Give this to the patient when he has no appetite. One way of improving his appetite is to give pickle juice if he is unable to chew, pickle juice is the liquid you get when you pickle vegetables. June K Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: I have been trying to talk one of my patients out of eating wheat products for weeks and am not making headway. You would think late stage cancer would be a good enough reason, but alas it is not. I thought I would see if there was anything that could be done, but everything I had found (which was not much) said that gluten is either there or not and if the chain is broken, so are the benefits of having it there. So, I do appreciate the answer, but as I was already pretty sure I had found it before. Again, thanks, Bruce Guilmette, PhD Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://survivecancerfoundation.org Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) _____ From: nutrition [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Connie Hampton Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:36 AM nutrition Subject: RE: sourdough bread There is a yeast (not just commercial bread yeast) that, if left to work for a very long ferment - like a week or more - can cut the 33 amino acid peptide that is gliadin into smaller pieces that don't seem to have all the same effects on the celiac gut. However - by the time that all the gliadin is broken up, so are all the effects of gluten - the fluffiness/stretch/rise of the bread - so you end up with a brick - not delightful. So what is the point? Are we, as a culture, so addicted to the stuff that we are willing to jump through enormous hoops for a bad product just so we can eat wheat that no longer has the characteristics of the original? Not me. Connie Re: sourdough bread It seems to me that the fermentation process would make gliadin/ gluten molecules even more available to the intestinal tract than unfermented grains would. sourdough bread Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing? Regards, Bruce Guilmette, PhD Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://survivecancerfoundation.org Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Have done that with one person and for loss of appetite that does seem to work. No, this one simply wants to gorge on white flour products. His appetite is fine, just refuses to eat the things that will help him. I cannot do something for someone who refuses to help themselves. I started looking on the off chance I would find some social redeeming value, SOMEWHERE for processed flour products. I was not really expecting any positive answers, but there is always an outside chance somewhere. Alas, this is the situation. I am about ready to cut him loose. I cannot help someone who will not make the effort and I have too many others to work with who want to succeed. Regards, Bruce Guilmette, PhD Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://survivecancerfoundation.org Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) _____ From: nutrition [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Ka Lim Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:24 PM nutrition Subject: RE: sourdough bread Bruce I am experienced in working with the diet of cancer patients the Macrobiotic way and wish to share what I do. You could try giving medium whole brown rice tea by cooking it with 4 times water. In the cooking process, throw in two stamp-size pieces of kombu (a kind of seaweed), boil for 20-30 minutes, strain into a cup. Give this to the patient when he has no appetite. One way of improving his appetite is to give pickle juice if he is unable to chew, pickle juice is the liquid you get when you pickle vegetables. June K Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: I have been trying to talk one of my patients out of eating wheat products for weeks and am not making headway. You would think late stage cancer would be a good enough reason, but alas it is not. I thought I would see if there was anything that could be done, but everything I had found (which was not much) said that gluten is either there or not and if the chain is broken, so are the benefits of having it there. So, I do appreciate the answer, but as I was already pretty sure I had found it before. Again, thanks, Bruce Guilmette, PhD Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://survivecancerfoundation.org Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) _____ From: nutrition [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Connie Hampton Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:36 AM nutrition Subject: RE: sourdough bread There is a yeast (not just commercial bread yeast) that, if left to work for a very long ferment - like a week or more - can cut the 33 amino acid peptide that is gliadin into smaller pieces that don't seem to have all the same effects on the celiac gut. However - by the time that all the gliadin is broken up, so are all the effects of gluten - the fluffiness/stretch/rise of the bread - so you end up with a brick - not delightful. So what is the point? Are we, as a culture, so addicted to the stuff that we are willing to jump through enormous hoops for a bad product just so we can eat wheat that no longer has the characteristics of the original? Not me. Connie Re: sourdough bread It seems to me that the fermentation process would make gliadin/ gluten molecules even more available to the intestinal tract than unfermented grains would. sourdough bread Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing? Regards, Bruce Guilmette, PhD Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://survivecancerfoundation.org Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Will he not even switch to healthier breads? E.g. spelt or wholegrain (real wholegrain)? On 5/26/06, Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: > > Have done that with one person and for loss of appetite that does seem to > work. > > > > No, this one simply wants to gorge on white flour products. His appetite > is > fine, just refuses to eat the things that will help him. I cannot do > something for someone who refuses to help themselves. > > > > I started looking on the off chance I would find some social redeeming > value, SOMEWHERE for processed flour products. I was not really expecting > any positive answers, but there is always an outside chance somewhere. > Alas, this is the situation. I am about ready to cut him loose. I cannot > help someone who will not make the effort and I have too many others to > work > with who want to succeed. > > > > Regards, > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > day > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > _____ > > From: nutrition > [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Ka Lim > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:24 PM > nutrition > Subject: RE: sourdough bread > > > > Bruce > I am experienced in working with the diet of cancer patients the > Macrobiotic way and wish to share what I do. > You could try giving medium whole brown rice tea by cooking it with 4 > times water. In the cooking process, throw in two stamp-size pieces of > kombu > (a kind of seaweed), boil for 20-30 minutes, strain into a cup. > > Give this to the patient when he has no appetite. > One way of improving his appetite is to give pickle juice if he is > unable > to chew, pickle juice is the liquid you get when you pickle vegetables. > June K > > > Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: > I have been trying to talk one of my patients out of eating wheat > products > for weeks and am not making headway. You would think late stage cancer > would be a good enough reason, but alas it is not. I thought I would see > if > there was anything that could be done, but everything I had found (which > was > not much) said that gluten is either there or not and if the chain is > broken, so are the benefits of having it there. > > > > So, I do appreciate the answer, but as I was already pretty sure I had > found > it before. > > > > Again, thanks, > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > day > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > _____ > > From: nutrition > [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Connie Hampton > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:36 AM > nutrition > Subject: RE: sourdough bread > > > > There is a yeast (not just commercial bread yeast) that, if left to work > for > a very long ferment - like a week or more - can cut the 33 amino acid > peptide that is gliadin into smaller pieces that don't seem to have all > the > same effects on the celiac gut. However - by the time that all the > gliadin > is broken up, so are all the effects of gluten - the > fluffiness/stretch/rise > of the bread - so you end up with a brick - not delightful. So what is > the > point? Are we, as a culture, so addicted to the stuff that we are willing > to jump through enormous hoops for a bad product just so we can eat wheat > that no longer has the characteristics of the original? > > Not me. > > Connie > Re: sourdough bread > > It seems to me that the fermentation process would make gliadin/ gluten > molecules even more available to the intestinal tract than unfermented > grains would. > > > > sourdough bread > > > Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread > effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing? > > > > Regards, > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > day > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Dirk, One of the great tragedies of critical illness issues is that people will not change habit patterns no matter what the cost. Lung cancer patients continue to smoke right up to death. And on and on it goes. I thought I would give him one last shot, but if he does not wish to change, I can't force it and do not have the time or luxury to babysit. It is a sorry state of affairs, but if you are not a willing participant in your own health care, you loose. Regards, Bruce Guilmette, PhD Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://survivecancerfoundation.org Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) _____ From: nutrition [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Dirk Coetsee Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 4:44 AM nutrition Subject: Re: sourdough bread Will he not even switch to healthier breads? E.g. spelt or wholegrain (real wholegrain)? On 5/26/06, Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: > > Have done that with one person and for loss of appetite that does seem to > work. > > > > No, this one simply wants to gorge on white flour products. His appetite > is > fine, just refuses to eat the things that will help him. I cannot do > something for someone who refuses to help themselves. > > > > I started looking on the off chance I would find some social redeeming > value, SOMEWHERE for processed flour products. I was not really expecting > any positive answers, but there is always an outside chance somewhere. > Alas, this is the situation. I am about ready to cut him loose. I cannot > help someone who will not make the effort and I have too many others to > work > with who want to succeed. > > > > Regards, > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > day > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > _____ > > From: nutrition > [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Ka Lim > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:24 PM > nutrition > Subject: RE: sourdough bread > > > > Bruce > I am experienced in working with the diet of cancer patients the > Macrobiotic way and wish to share what I do. > You could try giving medium whole brown rice tea by cooking it with 4 > times water. In the cooking process, throw in two stamp-size pieces of > kombu > (a kind of seaweed), boil for 20-30 minutes, strain into a cup. > > Give this to the patient when he has no appetite. > One way of improving his appetite is to give pickle juice if he is > unable > to chew, pickle juice is the liquid you get when you pickle vegetables. > June K > > > Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: > I have been trying to talk one of my patients out of eating wheat > products > for weeks and am not making headway. You would think late stage cancer > would be a good enough reason, but alas it is not. I thought I would see > if > there was anything that could be done, but everything I had found (which > was > not much) said that gluten is either there or not and if the chain is > broken, so are the benefits of having it there. > > > > So, I do appreciate the answer, but as I was already pretty sure I had > found > it before. > > > > Again, thanks, > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > day > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > _____ > > From: nutrition > [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Connie Hampton > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:36 AM > nutrition > Subject: RE: sourdough bread > > > > There is a yeast (not just commercial bread yeast) that, if left to work > for > a very long ferment - like a week or more - can cut the 33 amino acid > peptide that is gliadin into smaller pieces that don't seem to have all > the > same effects on the celiac gut. However - by the time that all the > gliadin > is broken up, so are all the effects of gluten - the > fluffiness/stretch/rise > of the bread - so you end up with a brick - not delightful. So what is > the > point? Are we, as a culture, so addicted to the stuff that we are willing > to jump through enormous hoops for a bad product just so we can eat wheat > that no longer has the characteristics of the original? > > Not me. > > Connie > Re: sourdough bread > > It seems to me that the fermentation process would make gliadin/ gluten > molecules even more available to the intestinal tract than unfermented > grains would. > > > > sourdough bread > > > Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread > effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing? > > > > Regards, > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > day > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 True. There's only so much you can do. I can sympathise though. I would LOVE some white bread. I miss starchy foods. But health comes first... On 5/26/06, Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: > > Dirk, > > One of the great tragedies of critical illness issues is that > people will not change habit patterns no matter what the cost. Lung > cancer > patients continue to smoke right up to death. And on and on it goes. I > thought I would give him one last shot, but if he does not wish to change, > I > can't force it and do not have the time or luxury to babysit. It is a > sorry > state of affairs, but if you are not a willing participant in your own > health care, you loose. > > > > > Regards, > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > day > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > _____ > > From: nutrition > [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Dirk Coetsee > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 4:44 AM > > nutrition > Subject: Re: sourdough bread > > > > Will he not even switch to healthier breads? E.g. spelt or wholegrain > (real > wholegrain)? > > On 5/26/06, Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: > > > > Have done that with one person and for loss of appetite that does seem > to > > work. > > > > > > > > No, this one simply wants to gorge on white flour products. His > appetite > > is > > fine, just refuses to eat the things that will help him. I cannot do > > something for someone who refuses to help themselves. > > > > > > > > I started looking on the off chance I would find some social redeeming > > value, SOMEWHERE for processed flour products. I was not really > expecting > > any positive answers, but there is always an outside chance somewhere. > > Alas, this is the situation. I am about ready to cut him loose. I > cannot > > help someone who will not make the effort and I have too many others to > > work > > with who want to succeed. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > > day > > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: nutrition > > [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Ka Lim > > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:24 PM > > nutrition > > Subject: RE: sourdough bread > > > > > > > > Bruce > > I am experienced in working with the diet of cancer patients the > > Macrobiotic way and wish to share what I do. > > You could try giving medium whole brown rice tea by cooking it with 4 > > times water. In the cooking process, throw in two stamp-size pieces of > > kombu > > (a kind of seaweed), boil for 20-30 minutes, strain into a cup. > > > > Give this to the patient when he has no appetite. > > One way of improving his appetite is to give pickle juice if he is > > unable > > to chew, pickle juice is the liquid you get when you pickle vegetables. > > June K > > > > > > Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: > > I have been trying to talk one of my patients out of eating wheat > > products > > for weeks and am not making headway. You would think late stage cancer > > would be a good enough reason, but alas it is not. I thought I would > see > > if > > there was anything that could be done, but everything I had found (which > > was > > not much) said that gluten is either there or not and if the chain is > > broken, so are the benefits of having it there. > > > > > > > > So, I do appreciate the answer, but as I was already pretty sure I had > > found > > it before. > > > > > > > > Again, thanks, > > > > > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > > day > > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: nutrition > > [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Connie Hampton > > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:36 AM > > nutrition > > Subject: RE: sourdough bread > > > > > > > > There is a yeast (not just commercial bread yeast) that, if left to work > > for > > a very long ferment - like a week or more - can cut the 33 amino acid > > peptide that is gliadin into smaller pieces that don't seem to have all > > the > > same effects on the celiac gut. However - by the time that all the > > gliadin > > is broken up, so are all the effects of gluten - the > > fluffiness/stretch/rise > > of the bread - so you end up with a brick - not delightful. So what is > > the > > point? Are we, as a culture, so addicted to the stuff that we are > willing > > to jump through enormous hoops for a bad product just so we can eat > wheat > > that no longer has the characteristics of the original? > > > > Not me. > > > > Connie > > Re: sourdough bread > > > > It seems to me that the fermentation process would make gliadin/ gluten > > molecules even more available to the intestinal tract than unfermented > > grains would. > > > > > > > > sourdough bread > > > > > > Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough > bread > > effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. > Each > > day > > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 It's hard to give up " air bread " as we came to call it in our house. I also miss a good grease fix with French fries and pizza. Oh well. I do make pizza now with a rice four crust that actually is edible. It is not as good, (who is kidding who) but it really beats no pizza. Recipe is on our website for the rice bread, muffins, etc. and pizza. Regards, Bruce Guilmette, PhD Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://survivecancerfoundation.org Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) _____ From: nutrition [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Dirk Coetsee Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 7:34 AM nutrition Subject: Re: sourdough bread True. There's only so much you can do. I can sympathise though. I would LOVE some white bread. I miss starchy foods. But health comes first... On 5/26/06, Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: > > Dirk, > > One of the great tragedies of critical illness issues is that > people will not change habit patterns no matter what the cost. Lung > cancer > patients continue to smoke right up to death. And on and on it goes. I > thought I would give him one last shot, but if he does not wish to change, > I > can't force it and do not have the time or luxury to babysit. It is a > sorry > state of affairs, but if you are not a willing participant in your own > health care, you loose. > > > > > Regards, > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > day > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > _____ > > From: nutrition > [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Dirk Coetsee > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 4:44 AM > > nutrition > Subject: Re: sourdough bread > > > > Will he not even switch to healthier breads? E.g. spelt or wholegrain > (real > wholegrain)? > > On 5/26/06, Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: > > > > Have done that with one person and for loss of appetite that does seem > to > > work. > > > > > > > > No, this one simply wants to gorge on white flour products. His > appetite > > is > > fine, just refuses to eat the things that will help him. I cannot do > > something for someone who refuses to help themselves. > > > > > > > > I started looking on the off chance I would find some social redeeming > > value, SOMEWHERE for processed flour products. I was not really > expecting > > any positive answers, but there is always an outside chance somewhere. > > Alas, this is the situation. I am about ready to cut him loose. I > cannot > > help someone who will not make the effort and I have too many others to > > work > > with who want to succeed. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > > day > > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: nutrition > > [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Ka Lim > > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:24 PM > > nutrition > > Subject: RE: sourdough bread > > > > > > > > Bruce > > I am experienced in working with the diet of cancer patients the > > Macrobiotic way and wish to share what I do. > > You could try giving medium whole brown rice tea by cooking it with 4 > > times water. In the cooking process, throw in two stamp-size pieces of > > kombu > > (a kind of seaweed), boil for 20-30 minutes, strain into a cup. > > > > Give this to the patient when he has no appetite. > > One way of improving his appetite is to give pickle juice if he is > > unable > > to chew, pickle juice is the liquid you get when you pickle vegetables. > > June K > > > > > > Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote: > > I have been trying to talk one of my patients out of eating wheat > > products > > for weeks and am not making headway. You would think late stage cancer > > would be a good enough reason, but alas it is not. I thought I would > see > > if > > there was anything that could be done, but everything I had found (which > > was > > not much) said that gluten is either there or not and if the chain is > > broken, so are the benefits of having it there. > > > > > > > > So, I do appreciate the answer, but as I was already pretty sure I had > > found > > it before. > > > > > > > > Again, thanks, > > > > > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each > > day > > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: nutrition > > [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Connie Hampton > > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:36 AM > > nutrition > > Subject: RE: sourdough bread > > > > > > > > There is a yeast (not just commercial bread yeast) that, if left to work > > for > > a very long ferment - like a week or more - can cut the 33 amino acid > > peptide that is gliadin into smaller pieces that don't seem to have all > > the > > same effects on the celiac gut. However - by the time that all the > > gliadin > > is broken up, so are all the effects of gluten - the > > fluffiness/stretch/rise > > of the bread - so you end up with a brick - not delightful. So what is > > the > > point? Are we, as a culture, so addicted to the stuff that we are > willing > > to jump through enormous hoops for a bad product just so we can eat > wheat > > that no longer has the characteristics of the original? > > > > Not me. > > > > Connie > > Re: sourdough bread > > > > It seems to me that the fermentation process would make gliadin/ gluten > > molecules even more available to the intestinal tract than unfermented > > grains would. > > > > > > > > sourdough bread > > > > > > Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough > bread > > effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Bruce Guilmette, PhD > > > > Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. > > > > http://survivecancerfoundation.org > > > > > > > > Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. > Each > > day > > has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Connie Hampton wrote: > There is a yeast (not just commercial bread yeast) that, if left to > work for > a very long ferment - like a week or more - can cut the 33 amino acid > peptide that is gliadin into smaller pieces that don't seem to have > all the > same effects on the celiac gut. However - by the time that all the > gliadin > is broken up, so are all the effects of gluten - the > fluffiness/stretch/rise > of the bread - so you end up with a brick - not delightful. So what > is the > point? Are we, as a culture, so addicted to the stuff that we are willing > to jump through enormous hoops for a bad product just so we can eat wheat > that no longer has the characteristics of the original? > > Not me. > > Connie Ditto. I mean, it's a nice research project, but even THAT experiment, with a special bacteria, only used half wheat flour (the other half was millet, I think). However, the dosa sourdough ferment is incredibly delish! Easier too! And still seems to be fluffy and stretchy and able to rise. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Bruce Guilmette PhD wrote: > Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread > effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing? For your patient though, one motivator might be that not eating gluten was found to make the side effects of chemo less, according to Dangerous Grains. AND the non-gluten-eaters survived cancer better. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Been there done that. Like I noted before, I told him on a number of occasions he just plain has to help himself. I am to the point that he has to exercise some control over his life and all the rational arguments have been presented. At this point it is his choice. I have 62 other people to worry about and in the last 3 weeks I have spent more time on him than the rest of them put together. Again, thanks for the note. Regards, Bruce Guilmette, PhD Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. <http://survivecancerfoundation.org> http://survivecancerfoundation.org Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV) _____ From: nutrition [mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Heidi Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 7:50 PM nutrition Subject: Re: sourdough bread Bruce Guilmette PhD wrote: > Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread > effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing? For your patient though, one motivator might be that not eating gluten was found to make the side effects of chemo less, according to Dangerous Grains. AND the non-gluten-eaters survived cancer better. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 ly, I'm impressed you work so hard with one person! I agree you just can't help everyone, you can just give information and be listener. Everyone makes their own decisions. -- Heidi Bruce Guilmette PhD wrote: > > Like I noted before, I told him on a number of occasions he just plain has > to help himself. I am to the point that he has to exercise some control > over his life and all the rational arguments have been presented. At this > point it is his choice. I have 62 other people to worry about and in the > last 3 weeks I have spent more time on him than the rest of them put > together. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 > " ita " <jzealey@...> wrote: > > can I assume all sourdough bread is yeast free? > > Thanks, > ita > Most sourdough bread is made with white wheat flour, and it's not yeast free. Duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Maybe you can answer this for me Duncan. I have been looking into various fermented foods. I also do ingest and have no problems with kefir, SCD yogurt and kimchi. I have been wondering about sourdough as it is also fermented. I realize that store bought sourdough has yeast added to it; but have made it a dew years ago without adding extra yeast other what is in the 'starter' or whatever it is called. Would this be as safe and effective as say kefir? Iguess what I am asking is if there is a way to ingest sourdough that would be safe if one has candida? blessings Shan > > > > can I assume all sourdough bread is yeast free? > > > > Thanks, > > ita > > > > Most sourdough bread is made with white wheat flour, and it's not > yeast free. > > Duncan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 French Meadow makes a sourdough bagel that is yeast free, made w/stoneground organic white flour. Re: Sourdough bread > " ita " <jzealey@...> wrote: > > can I assume all sourdough bread is yeast free? > > Thanks, > ita > Most sourdough bread is made with white wheat flour, and it's not yeast free. Duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 On 7/2/06, Beth Fish <bethafish@...> wrote: > French Meadow makes a sourdough bagel that is yeast free, made w/stoneground organic white flour. Forgive me but I'm having trouble figuring out what on earth the point is of whether or not the bread is yeast-free. If you suffer from candida, all the yeast is in your intestines! Surely, the bread will no longer be " yeast-free " once you feed it to the yeast overgrowth in your intestines. Chris -- The Truth About Cholesterol Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 I have to agree with you. I think it is a myth that yeast in bread will feed the candida anymore than bread without yeast. Dr. Stoll says that perhaps 1-5% of people with candida might be sensitive to yeast in bread, so there 's not much point in having 95-99% of people with candida avoiding it. If you don't react to it, I think you are fine with it if it is in a whole-grain bread. I eat Ezekial bread which contains no flour and I have no problem with the yeast in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 , > I have to agree with you. I think it is a myth that yeast in bread will feed >the candida anymore than bread without yeast. Dr. Stoll says that >perhaps 1-5% of people with candida might be sensitive to yeast in >bread, so there 's not much point in having 95-99% of people with >candida avoiding it. If you don't react to it, I think you are fine with it if it >is in a whole-grain bread. I eat Ezekial bread which contains no flour and >I have no problem with the yeast in it. If those numbers are true, then that is a good point in and of itself. The point I was making, though, is a little different, which is that bread is loaded with starch, and that whether it is fermented by yeast, bacteria, or a mix between the two, it is perfect fermentation material for the yeast in your intestines. It seems that a dense carbohydrate food would be counterproductive for anyone who has an active problem with fungal overgrowth. Chris -- The Truth About Cholesterol Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 I've got to say joining this group is the best thing I've done for my health so far - Ive spent hours pouring over websites and other information about candida, only to be told the same things over and over, many of which I suspected were not completely accurate - but my suspicions weren't validated until I started reading posts on here. There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there, which is a shame for the people who don't have a lot of time or the resources to do their own detailed investigation. It has been drummed into my head that any food with yeast is the most evil for candida, and I've so often read that you should buy yeast free wholegrain breads. Many of the comments on this group have given me food for thought! ita <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote: > > , > > > I have to agree with you. I think it is a myth that yeast in bread will feed >the candida anymore than bread without yeast. Dr. Stoll says that >perhaps 1-5% of people with candida might be sensitive to yeast in >bread, so there 's not much point in having 95-99% of people with >candida avoiding it. If you don't react to it, I think you are fine with it if it >is in a whole-grain bread. I eat Ezekial bread which contains no flour and >I have no problem with the yeast in it. > > If those numbers are true, then that is a good point in and of itself. > The point I was making, though, is a little different, which is that > bread is loaded with starch, and that whether it is fermented by > yeast, bacteria, or a mix between the two, it is perfect fermentation > material for the yeast in your intestines. It seems that a dense > carbohydrate food would be counterproductive for anyone who has an > active problem with fungal overgrowth. > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Bear in mind, though, that you must find what is right for your body. Many of the things suggested on here have not been of any help to me, you can only tell by experimenting. Keen Re: Sourdough bread I've got to say joining this group is the best thing I've done for my health so far - Ive spent hours pouring over websites and other information about candida, only to be told the same things over and over, many of which I suspected were not completely accurate - but my suspicions weren't validated until I started reading posts on here. There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there, which is a shame for the people who don't have a lot of time or the resources to do their own detailed investigation. It has been drummed into my head that any food with yeast is the most evil for candida, and I've so often read that you should buy yeast free wholegrain breads. Many of the comments on this group have given me food for thought! ita <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote: > > , > > > I have to agree with you. I think it is a myth that yeast in bread will feed >the candida anymore than bread without yeast. Dr. Stoll says that >perhaps 1-5% of people with candida might be sensitive to yeast in >bread, so there 's not much point in having 95-99% of people with >candida avoiding it. If you don't react to it, I think you are fine with it if it >is in a whole-grain bread. I eat Ezekial bread which contains no flour and >I have no problem with the yeast in it. > > If those numbers are true, then that is a good point in and of itself. > The point I was making, though, is a little different, which is that > bread is loaded with starch, and that whether it is fermented by > yeast, bacteria, or a mix between the two, it is perfect fermentation > material for the yeast in your intestines. It seems that a dense > carbohydrate food would be counterproductive for anyone who has an > active problem with fungal overgrowth. > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 , what kind of starter do you have? http://paletteable.livejournal.com/?skip=30 http://paletteable.livejournal.com/?skip=40 If you scroll down these pages, you'll see some of my sourdough bread. I use blackberries and grapes from our fields for the starter. Sometimes, I use immature fruit, but the best starter comes from using dead ripe fruit...grapes that have never been sulphured or sprayed, or blackberries that are bursting with juice. These starters ferment quickly and the wild yeasts (here, anyway) go crazy! Your area has its own particular yeasts. The starter is the key to the flavor and texture of your bread. So, maybe it's time you started a new starter? I'd be happy to give you a recipe if you would like. Elle at Dove's Roosthttp://paletteable.livejournal.com/http://dancingwoolymasters.blogspot.com/http://www.localharvest.org/farmers-markets/M17375"The average honeybee produces just 1 1/2 tsp of honey in her lifetime." -localharvest.orgNeed a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 , what kind of starter do you have? http://paletteable.livejournal.com/?skip=30 http://paletteable.livejournal.com/?skip=40 If you scroll down these pages, you'll see some of my sourdough bread. I use blackberries and grapes from our fields for the starter. Sometimes, I use immature fruit, but the best starter comes from using dead ripe fruit...grapes that have never been sulphured or sprayed, or blackberries that are bursting with juice. These starters ferment quickly and the wild yeasts (here, anyway) go crazy! Your area has its own particular yeasts. The starter is the key to the flavor and texture of your bread. So, maybe it's time you started a new starter? I'd be happy to give you a recipe if you would like. Elle at Dove's Roosthttp://paletteable.livejournal.com/http://dancingwoolymasters.blogspot.com/http://www.localharvest.org/farmers-markets/M17375"The average honeybee produces just 1 1/2 tsp of honey in her lifetime." -localharvest.orgNeed a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Is it safe to say that any store bought sd bread that lists " sourdough starter " or " starter " rather than yeast is a good fermented product? I'm looking at one from Whole Foods. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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