Guest guest Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 > From: Parashis <artpages@...> > Subject: Phelps > > Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 6:12 PM > Phelps is such an athlete and such a physical specimen yet > the middle > third of his face is underdeveloped to the point that his > lower jaw > extends beyond his upper teeth. > > I don't get it. Phelp's body is PERFECT for swimming, even if he's not as handsome as Mark Spitz was. Thank goodness he has some imperfections, otherwise we would have to deify him. I just saw an interview with him and his mother. The latter revealed that was ADHD as a child. They turned lemons into lemonade by channeling his energy into swimming. It makes you rethink the term illness. When is something an illness and when is it a specialization? Just think of the loss if Phelps' had been made to be " normal " through use of sedatives, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 > From: Parashis <artpages@...> > Subject: Phelps > > Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 6:12 PM > Phelps is such an athlete and such a physical specimen yet > the middle > third of his face is underdeveloped to the point that his > lower jaw > extends beyond his upper teeth. > > I don't get it. Phelp's body is PERFECT for swimming, even if he's not as handsome as Mark Spitz was. Thank goodness he has some imperfections, otherwise we would have to deify him. I just saw an interview with him and his mother. The latter revealed that was ADHD as a child. They turned lemons into lemonade by channeling his energy into swimming. It makes you rethink the term illness. When is something an illness and when is it a specialization? Just think of the loss if Phelps' had been made to be " normal " through use of sedatives, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Hmmm. Maybe his training overcame structural problems with the rest of his body better than in his face?? I sometimes wonder about that whole " Use it or lose it " thing - look at the Kenyan runners. They're great because they run miles to school on almost a daily basis. Maybe it helps that they aren't filling their bodies with junk that leaves toxins behind, but most of the best runners in the world are Kenyan. But it's not structural - it's lifestyle. It sounds like Phelps was obsessed with swimming from a young age. He probably did it all the time. Perhaps our bodies will respond to need, if we aren't poisoning them too much with junk. I wonder what his diet is like... > > Phelps is such an athlete and such a physical specimen yet the middle > third of his face is underdeveloped to the point that his lower jaw > extends beyond his upper teeth. > > I don't get it. > > Another example, what about Hawking? What a mind but how did he > get so sick? > > Sammy Jr., the same jaw set up and a skinny frail body, yet a > sharp mind and ability to do extraordinary, and stamina heavy > performances. > > What do you think happens? Does the body put all it's goodies into the > mind at the expense of the body? It still doesn't explain Phelps. > > > > > > > > > > Parashis > artpages@... > > portfolio pages: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/ > > http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 On 8/18/08, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote: > But it's not structural - it's lifestyle. It sounds like Phelps was > obsessed with swimming from a young age. He probably did it all the > time. Perhaps our bodies will respond to need, if we aren't > poisoning them too much with junk. I wonder what his diet is like... He eats 12,000 calories a day with a lot of eggs, refined carbs, and energy drinks: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/How-To-Get-Ripped.html Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Very true, I was just wondering, in light of what Weston Price said, how the body redirects strong points. I guess it just has it's own wisdom. More evidence of the complexity and miracle of life. On Aug 17, 2008, at 8:06 PM, Seay wrote: > Phelp's body is PERFECT for swimming, even if he's not as handsome as > Mark Spitz was. Thank goodness he has some imperfections, otherwise > we would have to deify him. I just saw an interview with him and his > mother. The latter revealed that was ADHD as a child. They > turned lemons into lemonade by channeling his energy into swimming. > > It makes you rethink the term illness. When is something an illness > and when is it a specialization? Just think of the loss if Phelps' > had been made to be " normal " through use of sedatives, etc. > Parashis artpages@... portfolio pages: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/ http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 That's what I was wondering also. On Aug 18, 2008, at 3:49 AM, haecklers wrote: > But it's not structural - it's lifestyle. It sounds like Phelps was > obsessed with swimming from a young age. He probably did it all the > time. Perhaps our bodies will respond to need, if we aren't > poisoning them too much with junk. I wonder what his diet is like... Parashis artpages@... portfolio pages: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/ http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 More mysteries. On Aug 18, 2008, at 3:55 AM, Masterjohn wrote: > He eats 12,000 calories a day with a lot of eggs, refined carbs, and > energy drinks: Parashis artpages@... portfolio pages: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/ http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 - > Very true, I was just wondering, in light of what Weston Price said, > how the body redirects strong points. I guess it just has it's own > wisdom. More evidence of the complexity and miracle of life. Actually, he has a few gross structural abnormalities which apparently happen to be superb adaptations for swimming. I read that his torso is the height of the torso of a man who's 6'8 " (IIRC) while his legs are the length of a man who's only 5'10 " , which apparently is very advantageous in the water. The same article said that his ankles are double-jointed, which allows him to propel himself more effectively, and that his arms are significantly wider than he is tall, which also provides a meaningful advantage in the water even though the average person's reach is equal to his height. But anyway, the body is a tremendously complex system, and its interactions with the environment (i.e. nutrition, epigenetics, etc. etc. etc.) are vastly more complex yet, so it shouldn't come as any surprise that different people will respond in different ways. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 It's so confusing. 12,000 calories makes sense considering what he does, but the eggs don't. The whites inhibit protein synthesis, right? Also has Aviden, which I forget why is bad. And those energy drinks - what are they? Whey protein and all sorts of what we've been told is bad? One wonders what he would be like if he ate the WAP way. How long can he get away with this? On Aug 18, 2008, at 3:55 AM, Masterjohn wrote: > He eats 12,000 calories a day with a lot of eggs, refined carbs, and > energy drinks: Parashis artpages@... portfolio pages: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/ http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Thanks for the insight. Much more reasonable. On Aug 18, 2008, at 5:11 AM, Idol wrote: > Actually, he has a few gross structural abnormalities which apparently > happen to be superb adaptations for swimming. I read that his torso > is the height of the torso of a man who's 6'8 " (IIRC) while his legs > are the length of a man who's only 5'10 " , which apparently is very > advantageous in the water. The same article said that his ankles are > double-jointed, which allows him to propel himself more effectively, > and that his arms are significantly wider than he is tall, which also > provides a meaningful advantage in the water even though the average > person's reach is equal to his height. > > But anyway, the body is a tremendously complex system, and its > interactions with the environment (i.e. nutrition, epigenetics, etc. > etc. etc.) are vastly more complex yet, so it shouldn't come as any > surprise that different people will respond in different ways. Parashis artpages@... portfolio pages: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/ http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 - NP; I can't personally vouch for the body dimensions info, but I imagine it's probably reliable. Interestingly, though I'm a fairly tall guy, if the reach-to-height ratio really is supposed to be 1:1, I apparently should have been over an inch taller, since I just checked and my reach is just over 77 " . Thanks for that too, vegan phase my mom went through when I was a little kid! - > Thanks for the insight. Much more reasonable. > > On Aug 18, 2008, at 5:11 AM, Idol wrote: > > > Actually, he has a few gross structural abnormalities which > apparently > > happen to be superb adaptations for swimming. I read that his torso > > is the height of the torso of a man who's 6'8 " (IIRC) while his legs > > are the length of a man who's only 5'10 " , which apparently is very > > advantageous in the water. The same article said that his ankles are > > double-jointed, which allows him to propel himself more effectively, > > and that his arms are significantly wider than he is tall, which > also > > provides a meaningful advantage in the water even though the average > > person's reach is equal to his height. > > > > But anyway, the body is a tremendously complex system, and its > > interactions with the environment (i.e. nutrition, epigenetics, etc. > > etc. etc.) are vastly more complex yet, so it shouldn't come as any > > surprise that different people will respond in different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 i hear what you are saying, but it isn'nt actually what i meant or intended on this topic...i think that sometimes people are born to do what they are born to do...using a strong inherent gift. i find it hopeful that in cases suggested that humans can do this despite " what we may see as weakness " --which actually may not be weakness at all. catch my drift? >>While of course willpower is very important, I tend to feel that this sort of attitude winds up serving as a reason not to address important root causes of problems (e.g. widespread malnutrition) and a justification for blaming the " weak " for their " weaknesses " -- after all, if they just had some willpower and spirit, they'd stop whining and transcend their so-called physical limitations. -<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Phelps' diet is lots of pasta and pizza. I read he eats 10,000 calorie + diet a day. He can get by with it, due to age and activity. From: haecklers <haecklers@...> Subject: Re: Phelps Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 3:49 AM Hmmm. Maybe his training overcame structural problems with the rest of his body better than in his face?? I sometimes wonder about that whole " Use it or lose it " thing - look at the Kenyan runners. They're great because they run miles to school on almost a daily basis. Maybe it helps that they aren't filling their bodies with junk that leaves toxins behind, but most of the best runners in the world are Kenyan. But it's not structural - it's lifestyle. It sounds like Phelps was obsessed with swimming from a young age. He probably did it all the time. Perhaps our bodies will respond to need, if we aren't poisoning them too much with junk. I wonder what his diet is like... > > Phelps is such an athlete and such a physical specimen yet the middle > third of his face is underdeveloped to the point that his lower jaw > extends beyond his upper teeth. > > I don't get it. > > Another example, what about Hawking? What a mind but how did he > get so sick? > > Sammy Jr., the same jaw set up and a skinny frail body, yet a > sharp mind and ability to do extraordinary, and stamina heavy > performances. > > What do you think happens? Does the body put all it's goodies into the > mind at the expense of the body? It still doesn't explain Phelps. > > > > > > > > > > Parashis > artpages@... > > portfolio pages: > http://www.flickr. com/photos/ 11468108@ N08/ > > http://www.artpages online.com/ EPportfolio/ 000portfolio. html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 AH! 'THIS PERECT DAY' by Ira Levin. One of my first wake-up calls. Bill --- Seay <entheogens@...> wrote: <snipped> Just think of the loss if Phelps' > had been made to be " normal " through use of > sedatives, etc. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 another clue on phelps' success?: http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0818/p08s02-comv.html i personally can understand power of imagination. it has facilitated many magical happenings in my life. i like what einstein had to say on imagination too such as: " Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. " and " Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand. " which makes me think-- perhaps hawkins may have embraced similar principals as einstein? two very brilliant minds... just a thought, sabine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 > It makes you rethink the term illness. > When is something an illness and when is it a specialization? > Just think of the loss if Phelps' had been made > to be " normal " through use of sedatives, etc. > > Some of it is values, what is specialization and what is deformation. I know a coach who was called in to help 11 yo elite gymnasts, because they were already, at their age, developing too-tight piriformis muscles from excessive time in pike position without compensation. This might be an early warning sign of a body kind of getting twisted out of true, and then something might snap (one girl did have a muscle pull and started to see dropping performance and this was why) Also when kids reduce white powder foods (sugars, refined grains) their behavior can change so dramatically as to lose the diagnosis of ADHD. So is that an illness or adaptive response to high sugar diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 I agree that the power of imagination is important. The only problem is that many people who tout it think that's all they need and don't do the difficult studies, work, etc that are required.  Imagination + Hard work = miracles  Imagination + 0 = slacker mentality  From: sabine. <impendingbloom@...> Subject: Re: Phelps Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 10:59 AM another clue on phelps' success?: http://www.csmonito r.com/2008/ 0818/p08s02- comv.html i personally can understand power of imagination. it has facilitated many magical happenings in my life. i like what einstein had to say on imagination too such as: " Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. " and " Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand. " which makes me think-- perhaps hawkins may have embraced similar principals as einstein? two very brilliant minds... just a thought, sabine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 It's important to realize that elite athleticism and health rarely go hand-in-hand. Lance Armstrong is a prime example. Elite marathoners provide another interesting case study. Between the high levels of activity, which are detrimental to the body, and the high caloric intakes, typically of sub-par foods, the body is excessively damaged. Powerlifters, NFL football players, athletes from all walks of life do exceptional damage to their bodies between their activity levels and their eating to support those activity levels. And to those that wonder what Phelps would be on a WAPF or Paleo-style diet...he likely wouldn't be Phelps, the man with the most Olympic medals ever. It's exceptionally hard to get enough calories to fuel the type of activity he is without eating some carb-rich, nutrient-poor food. Note that he has trouble maintaining his weight on 10K calories per day. How does one propose to come near that eating whole foods that aren't overly carby? I can tell you from experience that even training as an amateur, not exceptionally fast sprinter required a major intake of sweet potatoes and fruit. If I had been competing/training at a higher level, something would've had to give...either training intensity or dietary quality. See above about elite athleticism and health not going hand-in-hand. Cheers Kustes http://www.modernforager.com > > > > Phelps is such an athlete and such a physical specimen yet the > middle > > third of his face is underdeveloped to the point that his lower jaw > > extends beyond his upper teeth. > > > > I don't get it. > > > > Another example, what about Hawking? What a mind but how did > he > > get so sick? > > > > Sammy Jr., the same jaw set up and a skinny frail body, yet a > > sharp mind and ability to do extraordinary, and stamina heavy > > performances. > > > > What do you think happens? Does the body put all it's goodies into > the > > mind at the expense of the body? It still doesn't explain Phelps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parashis > > artpages@ > > > > portfolio pages: > > http://www.flickr. com/photos/ 11468108@ N08/ > > > > http://www.artpages online.com/ EPportfolio/ 000portfolio. html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 I think we, especially, Americans, have a lot of misconceptions about sports and exercise. Sports, especially elite sports, are punishing to the body, not healing. I don't know how to calculate the number of calories Phelps burns, but I would not be surprised if he had severe malabsorption problems - perhaps from a celiac-like disorder. I don't think winning 13 gold medals is necessarily a sign of overall health. Extreme fitness for one particular activity, yes, but also perhaps a pathological obsession with that activity as well. Early on in this thread, someone expressed relief that Phelps wasn't diminished by being given sedatives. Actually, drugs like Ritalin and Adderall are not sedatives, they are amphetamines - drugs that can get you banned from the Olympics for " doping. " I'd like to know whether he did take them at least at some point in his life. I wouldn't be all that surprised if he did. Mike > > It's important to realize that elite athleticism and health rarely go > hand-in-hand. Lance Armstrong is a prime example. Elite marathoners > provide another interesting case study. Between the high levels of > activity, which are detrimental to the body, and the high caloric > intakes, typically of sub-par foods, the body is excessively damaged. > Powerlifters, NFL football players, athletes from all walks of life > do exceptional damage to their bodies between their activity levels > and their eating to support those activity levels. > > And to those that wonder what Phelps would be on a WAPF or Paleo-style > diet...he likely wouldn't be Phelps, the man with the most > Olympic medals ever. It's exceptionally hard to get enough calories > to fuel the type of activity he is without eating some carb-rich, > nutrient-poor food. Note that he has trouble maintaining his weight > on 10K calories per day. How does one propose to come near that > eating whole foods that aren't overly carby? > > I can tell you from experience that even training as an amateur, not > exceptionally fast sprinter required a major intake of sweet potatoes > and fruit. If I had been competing/training at a higher level, > something would've had to give...either training intensity or dietary > quality. See above about elite athleticism and health not going > hand-in-hand. > > Cheers > Kustes > http://www.modernforager.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Sorry, didn't mean to step on any toes. No, I don't think having a passion is pathological. But you can have a passion and still support your family and community, and you can also have a passion and do nothing else. Not the same thing to me. I'd also like to make it clear that I don't know enough about Phelps to make a call about his personal life. I only wanted to raise the possibility. I think other people put it better than I did. Long-term internal damage is another possibility. Mike > > From: captainmikee <captainmikee@...> > Subject: Re: Phelps > > Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 1:51 PM > > > > > > > I think we, especially, Americans, have a lot of misconceptions about sports and exercise. > Sports, especially elite sports, are punishing to the body, not healing. > > I don't know how to calculate the number of calories Phelps burns, but I would not be > surprised if he had severe malabsorption problems - perhaps from a celiac-like disorder. > > I don't think winning 13 gold medals is necessarily a sign of overall health. Extreme fitness > for one particular activity, yes, but also perhaps a pathological obsession with that activity > as well. > > Early on in this thread, someone expressed relief that Phelps wasn't diminished by being > given sedatives. Actually, drugs like Ritalin and Adderall are not sedatives, they are > amphetamines - drugs that can get you banned from the Olympics for " doping. " I'd like to > know whether he did take them at least at some point in his life. I wouldn't be all that > surprised if he did. > > Mike > > --- In , " sk12879 " <scott.kustes@ ...> wrote: > > > > It's important to realize that elite athleticism and health rarely go > > hand-in-hand. Lance Armstrong is a prime example. Elite marathoners > > provide another interesting case study. Between the high levels of > > activity, which are detrimental to the body, and the high caloric > > intakes, typically of sub-par foods, the body is excessively damaged. > > Powerlifters, NFL football players, athletes from all walks of life > > do exceptional damage to their bodies between their activity levels > > and their eating to support those activity levels. > > > > And to those that wonder what Phelps would be on a WAPF or Paleo-style > > diet...he likely wouldn't be Phelps, the man with the most > > Olympic medals ever. It's exceptionally hard to get enough calories > > to fuel the type of activity he is without eating some carb-rich, > > nutrient-poor food. Note that he has trouble maintaining his weight > > on 10K calories per day. How does one propose to come near that > > eating whole foods that aren't overly carby? > > > > I can tell you from experience that even training as an amateur, not > > exceptionally fast sprinter required a major intake of sweet potatoes > > and fruit. If I had been competing/training at a higher level, > > something would've had to give...either training intensity or dietary > > quality. See above about elite athleticism and health not going > > hand-in-hand. > > > > Cheers > > Kustes > > http://www.modernfo rager.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 > I think we, especially, Americans, > have a lot of misconceptions about sports and exercise. To paraphrase Jane Austen: perhaps because when it comes to exercise, the pen has been in the athletes' hands for the last half century of research, and we know how we love our research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 genetics are so complex, and epigenetics close to infinite. but i have pondered this a bit in relation to my self-knowledge- I have had a vitamin A deficiency since I was a fetus. why then is my eyesight fine? in many cases it may have to do with the timing of development and diet- like he didn't get enough of x while his legs were growing, but plenty when his arms were, perhaps at a couple of different stages. toddlers legs grow longer before their arms do- part of that cute toddler look. for myself, perhaps eyes develop in utero at a time when my mom ate liver. perhaps my genetics favor eyesight over skin integrity and liver function. It is not irony, exactly, but something more deep and subtle, that the combination of our chemical soup and malnutrition can create penultimate intelligence and strength. the rainbow of a motor oil slick is beautiful, too. Anyone else read the novel Geek Love by Dunn? desh ____________________________________________________________ Click to receive credit card help and get out of debt fast. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m2DU9xhqi9AKPKDyKyICyZCyavUhR\ 3acLyTJaO6KWg1ukQW/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Tall guy anyway. Wish my son wasn't a vegan. His smart mind is getting cracks in it. On Aug 18, 2008, at 5:35 AM, Idol wrote: > I apparently should have been over > an inch taller, since I just checked and my reach is just over 77 " . Parashis artpages@... portfolio pages: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/ http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Right. He's in danger of using up his enzymes and being thrown into old age too early. On Aug 18, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Seay wrote: > Phelps' diet is lots of pasta and pizza. I read he eats 10,000 > calorie + diet a day. He can get by with it, due to age and activity. > Parashis artpages@... portfolio pages: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/ http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 I like that one and think I shall keep it. On Aug 18, 2008, at 10:59 AM, sabine. wrote: > another clue on phelps' success?: > > http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0818/p08s02-comv.html > > i personally can understand power of imagination. it has facilitated > many magical happenings in my life. > > i like what einstein had to say on imagination too such as: > " Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you > everywhere. " and " Imagination is more important than knowledge. For > knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while > imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to > know and understand. " > > which makes me think-- perhaps hawkins may have embraced similar > principals as einstein? two very brilliant minds... > > just a thought, > > sabine. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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