RE: Vitamin K was RE: Subpar Breast Milk

[Guest guest]

KerryAnn,

> Are you referring to Vit K as in the shot used to prevent Hemorrhagic

> Disease of the Newborn?

I read a recent review by Greer that concluded breast milk did

not have enough vitamin K in it, but I don't recall the reasoning. In

any case, since most women do not get enough vitamin K, particularly

K2, and since K status of breastmilk is dependent on maternal status,

it makes little sense that average breast milk *isn't* deficient in

vitamin K. The population as a whole is universally deficient in

vitamin K2, and children much moreso than adults, so I imagine with

infants even moreso, due to the rate of growth. Since vitamin K2 is

not added to formulas as far as I know, formulas would be even worse

than breast milk.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> infants even moreso, due to the rate of growth. Since vitamin K2 is

> not added to formulas as far as I know, formulas would be even worse

> than breast milk.

K is added to commercial formulas, although I don't know if it's K1, K2,

etc...

KerryAnn

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[Guest guest]

KerryAnn,

> K is added to commercial formulas, although I don't know if it's K1, K2,

> etc...

I'm sure it is, but I doubt they add K2, which is what growing infants

and children need, and what standard diets are especially deficient

in.

Chris

[Guest guest]

K2 is in raw grassfed milk/cream right? I use that to make my son's

formula.

Dawn

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Masterjohn

Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: Vitamin K was RE: Subpar Breast Milk

KerryAnn,

> K is added to commercial formulas, although I don't know if it's K1, K2,

> etc...

I'm sure it is, but I doubt they add K2, which is what growing infants

and children need, and what standard diets are especially deficient

in.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>

> K2 is in raw grassfed milk/cream right? I use that to make my son's

> formula.

>

I don't know, but I don't think that K2 is in raw milk/cream. (at

least in large amounts...) It is produced by bacteria, so it is in

fermented products (including milk products) and is produced in our gut.

katie

[Guest guest]

On 3/27/08, rumkat74 <rumkat74@...> wrote:

> > K2 is in raw grassfed milk/cream right? I use that to make my son's

> > formula.

> I don't know, but I don't think that K2 is in raw milk/cream. (at

> least in large amounts...) It is produced by bacteria, so it is in

> fermented products (including milk products) and is produced in our gut.

It is in animal fats to the extent they are fed deeply green grass.

It is produced by animals from K1, which is found in chloroplasts and

plays a role in photosynthesis. It is also found in fermented foods.

However, the evidence that bacteria in our gut make any substantial

contribution to our K status is poor. Moreover, endpoints like heart

disease are correlated with the tiny K2 intakes from animal foods, and

if the gut was supplying most of our K2, that correlation wouldn't

exist. So the main contribution seems to be from animal foods, or, if

you eat natto, from natto.

I have an article on this:

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitamin-k2.html

Chris

[Guest guest]

Other sources say that the mother has stores of all the fat soluble

vitamins, and carrier proteins to improve absorbtion. Formula doesn't

have the carrier proteins, so there is no guarantee that the extra K gets

in the baby.

Whenever we talk about breastmilk, culture and sampling techniques have

to be examined. Many nutrients change in breastmilk, from the beginning

to end of a feeding, and the beginning and end of the day and week. They

change in different ways according to different cultures- one culture may

eat its highest fat meal at breakfast, one at dinner. One might

breastfeed every 30 minutes, and so have lesser nutrient concentration

and volume per feeding than a culture which breastfeeds every 2 hours.

So, sampling techniques for breastmilk often do not compensate for these

variations from beginning of feeding to end, etc. One might argue that

it is nearly impossible to get an effective sample based on the variation

of the milk across time and considering variations in diet across a week,

month, etc.

When Enig compares fat contents of breastmilk on the WAPF site, she

does not take into effect how many times a day the different mothers

breastfeed, or detail sampling techniques, etc.

This article would be a valuable read for you, Chris. It is quite

detailed and well cited and contains some tidbits that merit follow-up.

..

http://www.unu.edu/unupress/food/8F174e/8F174E04.htm

Desh

[Guest guest]

On 3/27/08, De Bell-Frantz <deshabell@...> wrote:

> Other sources say that the mother has stores of all the fat soluble

> vitamins, and carrier proteins to improve absorbtion. Formula doesn't

> have the carrier proteins, so there is no guarantee that the extra K gets

> in the baby.

There's no carrier protein for vitamin K that I know of; vitamin K is

carried in the plasma by lipoproteins. If there is one for milk, to

my knowledge it has not been identified. Vitamins A and D have

carrier proteins in milk, and formula does not have them, but that is

not the point. We are not comparing breast milk to formula; we are

comparing " subpar " breast milk to ideal breast milk. Regardless of

the carrier proteins, the fat-soluble content of human milk is

directly dependent on the nutritional status of the mother. When the

mother's own nutrition is subpar, so is her milk.

> Whenever we talk about breastmilk, culture and sampling techniques have

> to be examined. Many nutrients change in breastmilk, from the beginning

> to end of a feeding, and the beginning and end of the day and week. They

> change in different ways according to different cultures- one culture may

> eat its highest fat meal at breakfast, one at dinner. One might

> breastfeed every 30 minutes, and so have lesser nutrient concentration

> and volume per feeding than a culture which breastfeeds every 2 hours.

> So, sampling techniques for breastmilk often do not compensate for these

> variations from beginning of feeding to end, etc. One might argue that

> it is nearly impossible to get an effective sample based on the variation

> of the milk across time and considering variations in diet across a week,

> month, etc.

And when you use the same technique within the same population, you

find the fat-soluble vitamin content of the milk is dependent on the

intake of the mother. And when you supplement with a fat-soluble

vitamin among women in the same population using the same technique,

it increases the supply in the milk.

> When Enig compares fat contents of breastmilk on the WAPF site, she

> does not take into effect how many times a day the different mothers

> breastfeed, or detail sampling techniques, etc.

If Enig were here it might be interesting to engage her on it,

but I did not cite this article or say anything about the fat content

of breastmilk.

> This article would be a valuable read for you, Chris. It is quite

> detailed and well cited and contains some tidbits that merit follow-up.

> .

> http://www.unu.edu/unupress/food/8F174e/8F174E04.htm

Thank you very much, Desh. Unfortunately I don't have time to read

all this, and from scanning it, it does not seem like it has much to

do with the relationship between diet and the fat-soluble vitamin

content of breast milk.

Chris