Re: Whole wheat pie crust

[Guest guest]

> Anyone have a good

> whole wheat pie crust recipe?

> -Lana

Lana I've tried and tried and failed every time on WW pie crust. I

think it's that fundamentally, WW flour is just too different from

white flour to make the kind of crust I want.

And with pumpkin too. My favorite.

Nowadays I just make a lard and almond flour crust and call it done.

I've seen recipes with xanthan gum but I never tried that.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Lana

Here's one you could try, but I make my crust from a combination of spelt,

kamut, spring wheat, triticale and barley so I have no idea how it would be

for 100% whole wheat. This crust always seems to work out, though, and so

I end up making it just to have some on-hand, stored the freezer. It

defrosts beautifully and turns out flaky and tender. It works out well for

blind-baking, too, if you have need of that. If left to defrost too long,

it will become quite soft. So much so, there's no way to roll it, so I just

pat it into tart pans or pie plates, tossing them into the fridge, or even

freezer, to cool it off prior to baking or adding a filling. I've also

simply patted the dough into pie plates or tart pans and thrown them into

the freezer, skipping the whole shaping into a disc, wrapping, refrigerating

and rolling part.

Sharon

Galette Dough

2 cups flour (ground, sifted)

1 T sugar (I don't include this but do include a couple drops liquid Stevia

with liquids)

1/2 tsp baking powder

1/2 tsp salt

1/2 cup unsalted ice-cold butter cut into chunks

1/2 cup cold coconut oil

2 T sour cream, kefir, or yogurt mixed with 1 to 2 T ice water

Combined flour, sugar, baking powder and salt in a bowl. Whisk. Cut in

butter and coconut oil until texture resembles coarse meal. Add sour

cream/water and blend just until dough comes together. Shape into a disc,

wrap and chill at least 8 hours before using. Freezes well. Makes 2

medium free-form tart or 8 individual galettes.

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...>wrote:

> Arg! I just can't seem to find a good recipe for a whole wheat pie

> crust.

> I used to buy one premade from whole foods, but I'm no longer near a whole

> foods. Even NT uses white flour for pie crust. Bleh! I'm dying to make my

> pumpkin pie, but the crust I made last time was just awful (I guess not

> enough water? It crumbled... and not in the good way). Anyone have a good

> whole wheat pie crust recipe?

>

> -Lana

>

> " There is nothing more useful than sun and salt. " - Latin proverb

>

>

[Guest guest]

You'd be better off using a sprouted wheat, spelt, or another related grain if

you're going

to use whole wheat for a pie crust. But it won't come out the same as white.

Do you

understand why whole wheat is soaked or sprouted before being used? I thought

it was

covered at least a little in NT.

--- In , " Lana Gibbons " <lana.m.gibbons@...>

wrote:

>

> Arg! I just can't seem to find a good recipe for a whole wheat pie crust.

> I used to buy one premade from whole foods, but I'm no longer near a whole

> foods. Even NT uses white flour for pie crust. Bleh! I'm dying to make my

> pumpkin pie, but the crust I made last time was just awful (I guess not

> enough water? It crumbled... and not in the good way). Anyone have a good

> whole wheat pie crust recipe?

>

> -Lana

>

> " There is nothing more useful than sun and salt. " - Latin proverb

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I've been eating this way for over 3 years now - I certainly understand the

benefits of soaked and sprouted grains. Even when I was using sprouted

flours I didn't get nearly as satisfactory a crust as the premade one I was

getting from whole foods. That crust did not use sprouted flour at all, nor

did it use wheat gluten or other additives and despite not being soaked, was

certainly healthier than the white flour crust in NT.

I don't expect a whole wheat pie crust to be the same as white - actually, I

quite dislike white pie crust after getting used to the whole wheat

version. I just need something I can get into the pie pan without it

crumbling to bits. The recipe Sharon posted made me realize I may not have

been using enough fat. I'm gonna give her recipe a try with some soaked

whole wheat and hopefully it'll come out better than the last one I made.

-Lana

" There is nothing more useful than sun and salt. " - Latin proverb

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 10:09 PM, <heather_wapf@...> wrote:

> You'd be better off using a sprouted wheat, spelt, or another related grain

> if you're going

> to use whole wheat for a pie crust. But it won't come out the same as

> white. Do you

> understand why whole wheat is soaked or sprouted before being used? I

> thought it was

> covered at least a little in NT.

>

>

[Guest guest]

*On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...>wrote:

*

>

> *

> I don't expect a whole wheat pie crust to be the same as white - actually,

> I

> quite dislike white pie crust after getting used to the whole wheat

> version. I just need something I can get into the pie pan without it

> crumbling to bits. The recipe Sharon posted made me realize I may not have

> been using enough fat. I'm gonna give her recipe a try with some soaked

> whole wheat and hopefully it'll come out better than the last one I made.

> *

>

*

*In the words of Emeril, " Oh, yeah, babe " , when it comes to the fat. LOL.

So, I'm curious - when you say " soaked whole wheat " , are you soaking them in

the liquid from the pie crust? Or some other liquid? Unless I'm using

sprouted grains, ground, I'm just using the 7-8 hour time period with pie

crusts, letting them " soak " in whatever acidified substance I've added to

the recipe (in this case sour cream, kefir or yogurt), and thinking " good

enough " . I've been figuring that every once in awhile, it doesn't hurt to

have some of the chelating properties of phytic acid. Anyway, would love to

know how you're soaking and whatever other changes you might make to the

recipe so I can learn from it. Thanks, Lana!

Sharon

--

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government

fears the people, there is liberty. - Jefferson

Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will

have plenty to eat.

Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul

[Guest guest]

What about the soaking part? Aren't we supposed to soak the flour? Or

can we just go ahead and indulge. Which would mean we could just get

white flour I guess.

On Aug 26, 2008, at 2:31 PM, Sharon son wrote:

> Galette Dough

> 2 cups flour (ground, sifted)

> 1 T sugar (I don't include this but do include a couple drops liquid

> Stevia

> with liquids)

> 1/2 tsp baking powder

> 1/2 tsp salt

> 1/2 cup unsalted ice-cold butter cut into chunks

> 1/2 cup cold coconut oil

> 2 T sour cream, kefir, or yogurt mixed with 1 to 2 T ice water

>

> Combined flour, sugar, baking powder and salt in a bowl. Whisk. Cut

> in

> butter and coconut oil until texture resembles coarse meal. Add sour

> cream/water and blend just until dough comes together. Shape into a

> disc,

> wrap and chill at least 8 hours before using. Freezes well. Makes 2

> medium free-form tart or 8 individual galettes.

Parashis

artpages@...

portfolio pages:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

*On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Parashis <artpages@...

> wrote:

*

*What about the soaking part? Aren't we supposed to soak the flour? Or

can we just go ahead and indulge. Which would mean we could just get

white flour I guess.*

Hi,

Phytic acid is a chelator, so when I let my pie crust dough sit for a

quickie-ferment in the acidified liquids (using kefir or yogurt or sour

cream, and even buttermilk, now that I think about what I've done LOL, oh!

and vinegar is another one to use in crust), 7-8 hours, I may not get ALL

the phytic acid removed, but I make/eat pies so seldom, that I don't worry

about not making a perfectly fermented pie dough. The Hebrews, during

Passover, ate unleavened, quickly-made bread that is still tradition.

Nutritionally, I believe one of the purposes of that was it served as a

chelator for a short period of time.

I've made a few pies the past couple of weeks only because our favorite pie

in the world is a fresh blueberry one that I make where the berries are

wrapped in a luscious tongue-tingling lemon curd laced sour cream

base........ok......off to make another pie...............

Sharon

--

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government

fears the people, there is liberty. - Jefferson

Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will

have plenty to eat.

Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul

[Guest guest]

Lana:

Are you using whole wheat pastry flour or bread flour? I use the

pastry flour since it like all purpose white flour, and I never seem

to have a problem. I don't go through a soaking process, since we

hardly ever have pie, and it's not worth the hassles for me. You can

make your own WWPF using soft wheat berries.

[Guest guest]

I find that my pie crust crumbles and will not roll out if I use too

much fat. I don't measure fat anymore. When I make whole wheat pie

crust I just keep adding a little bit of fat until the flour is crumbly.

~

I just need something I can get into the pie pan without it

> crumbling to bits. The recipe Sharon posted made me realize I may

not have

> been using enough fat.

[Guest guest]

It is hard wheat - so I guess that makes it bread flour? Maybe that's the

issue... The pumpkin pie is the only pastry I make. Thanks!

-Lana

" There is nothing more useful than sun and salt. " - Latin proverb

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:47 AM, mrszarling <mrszarling@...> wrote:

> Lana:

> Are you using whole wheat pastry flour or bread flour? I use the

> pastry flour since it like all purpose white flour, and I never seem

> to have a problem. I don't go through a soaking process, since we

> hardly ever have pie, and it's not worth the hassles for me. You can

> make your own WWPF using soft wheat berries.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

While soaking is ideal... unsoaked whole wheat flour by far doesn't equal

white flour! Unsoaked whole wheat flours still have nutrition, some of it

just isn't as bioavailable as in soaked or sprouted wheat flours due to

phytic acid. Of course, not to mention the bleaching and bromation of the

white flour which is sure to cause your thyroid issues (unless you're

specifically purchasing unbleached unbrominated).

-Lana

" There is nothing more useful than sun and salt. " - Latin proverb

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Parashis

<artpages@...>wrote:

> What about the soaking part? Aren't we supposed to soak the flour? Or

> can we just go ahead and indulge. Which would mean we could just get

> white flour I guess.

>

[Guest guest]

There's soft wheat and hard wheat, different varieties, and then there's bread

flour (usually

means extra gluten added, not whether it's soft or white, I don't think), pastry

flour (I think

they use a particular grind), which is ground extremely finely. Maybe it's the

fine grind of

the whole wheat flour that helped the WF crust. Unless I've gotten something

wrong here.

I've been making gluten free crusts myself. Maybe substitute tapioca flour for

part of the

WW flour, too...it's a binder with the GF flours, but it might help make it more

tender.

Then again, if you're going to try that, you could cut WW with some white

unbleached.

Maybe that's another trick they could have used.

>

> > Lana:

> > Are you using whole wheat pastry flour or bread flour? I use the

> > pastry flour since it like all purpose white flour, and I never seem

> > to have a problem. I don't go through a soaking process, since we

> > hardly ever have pie, and it's not worth the hassles for me. You can

> > make your own WWPF using soft wheat berries.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh you made me droooooool! Where do you live?

On Aug 27, 2008, at 6:09 AM, Sharon son wrote:

> *On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Parashis

> <artpages@...

>> wrote:

> *

>

> *What about the soaking part? Aren't we supposed to soak the flour? Or

> can we just go ahead and indulge. Which would mean we could just get

> white flour I guess.*

>

>

> Hi,

> Phytic acid is a chelator, so when I let my pie crust dough sit for a

> quickie-ferment in the acidified liquids (using kefir or yogurt or sour

> cream, and even buttermilk, now that I think about what I've done LOL,

> oh!

> and vinegar is another one to use in crust), 7-8 hours, I may not get

> ALL

> the phytic acid removed, but I make/eat pies so seldom, that I don't

> worry

> about not making a perfectly fermented pie dough. The Hebrews, during

> Passover, ate unleavened, quickly-made bread that is still tradition.

> Nutritionally, I believe one of the purposes of that was it served as a

> chelator for a short period of time.

>

> I've made a few pies the past couple of weeks only because our

> favorite pie

> in the world is a fresh blueberry one that I make where the berries are

> wrapped in a luscious tongue-tingling lemon curd laced sour cream

> base........ok......off to make another pie...............

>

> Sharon

>

>

>

>

>

> --

> When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the

> government

> fears the people, there is liberty. - Jefferson

> Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you

> will

> have plenty to eat.

> Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Parashis

<artpages@...>wrote:

> Oh you made me droooooool! Where do you live?

>

> On Aug 27, 2008, at 6:09 AM, Sharon son wrote:

>

> > *On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Parashis

> > <artpages@... <artpages%40earthlink.net>

> >> wrote:

> > *

> >

> > *What about the soaking part? Aren't we supposed to soak the flour? Or

> > can we just go ahead and indulge. Which would mean we could just get

> > white flour I guess.*

> >

> >

> > Hi,

> > Phytic acid is a chelator, so when I let my pie crust dough sit for a

> > quickie-ferment in the acidified liquids (using kefir or yogurt or sour

> > cream, and even buttermilk, now that I think about what I've done LOL,

> > oh!

> > and vinegar is another one to use in crust), 7-8 hours, I may not get

> > ALL

> > the phytic acid removed, but I make/eat pies so seldom, that I don't

> > worry

> > about not making a perfectly fermented pie dough. The Hebrews, during

> > Passover, ate unleavened, quickly-made bread that is still tradition.

> > Nutritionally, I believe one of the purposes of that was it served as a

> > chelator for a short period of time.

> >

> > I've made a few pies the past couple of weeks only because our

> > favorite pie

> > in the world is a fresh blueberry one that I make where the berries are

> > wrapped in a luscious tongue-tingling lemon curd laced sour cream

> > base........ok......off to make another pie...............

> >

> > Sharon

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the

> > government

> > fears the people, there is liberty. - Jefferson

> > Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you

> > will

> > have plenty to eat.

> > Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

New Hampshire - where I discovered if you know where to look when driving

down some of the dirt roads, you can find acres and acres and acres of wild

blueberries. Just picked another 4 pounds today. Then again, it takes about

an hour per pound......but boy, do I love picking wild berries. Here's a

the recipe I recently posted for the pie I mentioned:

http://www.ericsons.net/587/fresh-blueberry-lemon-sour-cream-pie - and yep,

it has sugar, but every once in awhile.....

Sharon

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Parashis

<artpages@...>wrote:

> Oh you made me droooooool! Where do you live?

>

> On Aug 27, 2008, at 6:09 AM, Sharon son wrote:

>

> > *On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Parashis

> > <artpages@... <artpages%40earthlink.net>

>

[Guest guest]

soft wheat is used for pastry flour; it is low in protein. hard wheats

are used for bread flour because they are higher in gluten and protein.

hfs bread flours should not have gluten added. using a hard wheat for a

pastry crust should result in a tougher crust, not a crumbly one.

if you are using freshly ground flour then that is the problem.

desh

____________________________________________________________

Don't let your life go up in flames. Click here for the latest fire saftey

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[Guest guest]

I don't make pie crust very often, but have been experimenting with

brown rice flour. Made a quiche the other day, crust with half rice

flour and half unbleached wheat, and I LOVED it. A little bit crispy,

and nice and crumbly, not tough.

Joy

>

> soft wheat is used for pastry flour; it is low in protein. hard wheats

> are used for bread flour because they are higher in gluten and protein.

> hfs bread flours should not have gluten added. using a hard wheat for a

> pastry crust should result in a tougher crust, not a crumbly one.

>

> if you are using freshly ground flour then that is the problem.

>

> desh

> ____________________________________________________________

> Don't let your life go up in flames. Click here for the latest fire

saftey products.

>

http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oFSuVBwOIY1ZGWZSisYbmO1TRkSr5\

2qMzCYtrIIH2n3kqT0/

>

[Guest guest]

oh, I forgot to say that the rice-wheat pie crust I love so much

doesn't roll out. I just press it in like a graham cracker crust. It

sticks together in the finished pie, though.

Joy

>

> I just need something I can get into the pie pan without it

> > crumbling to bits. The recipe Sharon posted made me realize I may

> not have

> > been using enough fat.

>

[Guest guest]

Flaky pie crust is not hard to make. You just have to know what

principles to follow.

First Principles

1.Use low protein flour. Best is sprouted soft wheat, freshly ground

2.Keep utensils and ingredients cold

3.Work dough as little as possible.

4.Time is of the essence, never let the fat melt and be absorbed by

the flour.

5. Butter to shortening ratio should be 3:2. Flour to fat ratio should

be 2:1.

The reasons for these principles are that flaky pie crust is made when

no gluten development occurs, hence low protein flour and minimal

working. The globs of fat melt during baking, creating little pockets.

Moisture in the dough creates steam which cook the dough and support

the little pockets which is what makes pie crust flaky.

Shortening can be lard, tallow, goose or duck fat, or unmodified palm

shortening. Do not use liquid oil. For a less brown crust, omit the

sugar or bake at lower temperature.

9-10 in Deep Dish Double Pie Crust

2 ½ cups fresh ground, whole soft wheat flour

1 teaspoon natural sea salt

4 teaspoons sucanat

13 tablespoons unsalted butter , cold, cut into 1/4-inch pieces (¾ C

+ 1 T or 1 & 5/8 sticks)

7 tablespoons lard, goose/duck fat, unmodified palm shortening ,

chilled (¼ C + 3 T)

4 - 5 tablespoons ice water

8-9in Single Pie Crust

1 ¼ cups fresh ground, whole soft wheat flour

½ teaspoon natural sea salt

2 teaspoons sucanat

6 tablespoons unsalted butter , cold, cut into 1/4-inch pieces (¼ C +

2 T or ¾ of stick)

4 tablespoons lard, goose/duck fat, unmodified palm shortening ,

chilled (¼ C)

3–4 tablespoons ice water

Mix:

Flour, sucanat, salt--don't sift.

Cut in:

Butter and shortening until largest pieces are the size of small peas.

Should look like cornmeal.

Note:

This is where you can control the character of the flaky-ness. Try

varying the size of fat pieces, although never let it melt.

Sprinkle in:

Ice water, 1 T at a time, gently tossing after each addition, until

moistened just enough to hold together—bowl will suddenly go clean.

Working quickly, form into ball, working dough as little as possible.

If the flour has not been sprouted, wrap the dough ball to prevent it

from drying out and store in fridge for 12 hours. This will reduce the

phytic acid content of the flour and soften the bran. Sprouting is

better though because it eliminates more phytic acid and produces more

vitamins. Plus, while the prep is longer (the sprouting & drying), the

actual pie crust making is faster because you don't have to wait 12

hours. I sprout and dry regularly and store the sprouted wheat

berries. Then grind flour as needed and bake right away.

Sprinkle flour onto counter top or granite stone (which is colder than

counter the top). Chill rolling pin too.

Roll to 1/8 " thick.

Keep adding flour to prevent sticking. Periodically ensure the dough

is not sticking.

Flour the rolling pin. Start wrapping the dough loosely around the

rolling pin.

Lay pin over pie plate and carefully unroll dough onto pie plate.

Whole wheat pastry dough tends to split and break more than white

flour pastry. You may have to do a little gentle patching. Don't

worry, flute the edge nicely and no one will know. Next time a little

more water will help prevent splitting.

Working quickly, gently pat dough into pie plate so the butter does

not melt.

Quickly trim edge, leaving 1/2 inch of dough over the pie plate. Tuck

this flap under all the way round and crimp or flute. Be sure the

dough has a good grip on the edge of the pie plate or it can slide off

the edge if you pre-cook the shell.

To pre-cook the shell, prick bottom of crust with fork a few times to

prevent bubbling. Then cover dough with foil and prick a few time. Try

and use the foil to hold the dough in place as it tends to slide down

off the lip of the pie plate during baking.

For recipes requiring a pre-cooked pie shell:

1.Bake in 450 degree pre-heated oven for eight minutes.

2.Remove, fill, and bake according to pie-filling recipe.

Otherwise fill with filling and bake according to pie filling recipe.

For a top crust pie double the recipe.

Good Luck!

> >

> > soft wheat is used for pastry flour; it is low in protein. hard

wheats

> > are used for bread flour because they are higher in gluten and

protein.

> > hfs bread flours should not have gluten added. using a hard wheat

for a

> > pastry crust should result in a tougher crust, not a crumbly one.

> >

> > if you are using freshly ground flour then that is the problem.

> >

> > desh

> > ____________________________________________________________

> > Don't let your life go up in flames. Click here for the latest fire

> saftey products.

> >

>

http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oFSuVBwOIY1ZGWZSisYbmO1TRkSr5\

2qMzCYtrIIH2n3kqT0/

> >

>