OT Re: Chicken Choices, insurances and more,

[Guest guest]

Hi,

>

> Regarding confronting people about their thoughts, I agree one can do

> it with compassion. I don't think there is any rule about it, as if

> it is inherently uncompassionate to do so, or inherently more

> compassionate to do so. Sometimes the point will help and sometimes

> it will not, or do worse. Sometimes one can make a genuinely

> concerned post about all the things other should or could do but it

> will come across as a lack of empathy and it doesn't do any good. Or

> sometimes we can do that and be completely right, but then it does

> something not so good to us because we are spending all our time

> talking about other people's faults. On the other hand if no one ever

> criticized anyone an awful lot of learning opportunities would be

> foregone.

>

> Chris

>

I absolutely agree that healthy criticism is a wonderful thing. One thing that

can be helpful

when you feel as if someone has said something insensitive is to ask where they

learned

that (assertion) and to explain what they mean more thoroughly. If the person

did mean to

be insensitive, they will often soften their follow up response otherwise, it

offers an

interesting peek into the other person's psyche while achieving mutual respect.

If they did

not mean any disrespect, they will likely catch themselves and their follow up

response will

reveal that. Otherwise confrontation just for the sake of being right gets all

parties

involved hot under the collar because they can't simply agree to disagree.

I did read the original comments that seemed to start the downward spiral into

personal

attacks very carefully and I could not find anything even remotely inflammatory

or elitist

about them. Hopefully once we collectively realize that the opposite of every

strong

emotion (love, hate, happy, sad etc) is indifference, the sooner (I think) we

will be able to

get back to cordial, civil, and rewarding discourse.

Peace,

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

I am sorry if the combative tone offends you; many of us here are avid

debaters. We try to back up our opinions with science. But there is

history with Ann Marie and other posters on these issues- when someone

makes you cry first thing in the morning with their elitism, well, your

debate skills stay honed. Many disparaging things are said without

science backing them up. I am particularly tired of comments about

subpar breastmilk, without any science thrown up for discussion. I am a

battering ram about the formula issue and about birth issues I admit, but

I will follow etiquette here and post science about it;)

Desh

[Guest guest]

Nobody MAKES us do very many things. Unless they were standing there causing

you bodily harm, they didn't MAKE you cry. You chose to respond that way.

Kathy

Re:OT Re: Chicken Choices, insurances and more,

I am sorry if the combative tone offends you; many of us here are avid

debaters. We try to back up our opinions with science. But there is

history with Ann Marie and other posters on these issues- when someone

makes you cry first thing in the morning with their elitism, well, your

debate skills stay honed. Many disparaging things are said without

science backing them up. I am particularly tired of comments about

subpar breastmilk, without any science thrown up for discussion. I am a

battering ram about the formula issue and about birth issues I admit, but

I will follow etiquette here and post science about it;)

Desh

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Kathy-

> Nobody MAKES us do very many things. Unless they were standing there

> causing

> you bodily harm, they didn't MAKE you cry. You chose to respond that

> way.

While I agree that it's probably an overstatement in most cases

(arguably excluding those involving physical violence) to say that

someone " made " someone else cry, it's at least equally inaccurate to

say that someone consciously " chooses " to cry. It's rather like the

assertion that because people can generally suppress a sneeze, sneezes

are purely voluntary. (And I'm not making that assertion up; it's out

there.) Obviously, actions fall on a spectrum ranging from purely

voluntary to purely involuntary, and much as many people tend to

prefer to view the world in boolean, even manichean, terms, the fact

is that it's more complex and subtle than that.

In light of this effectively unknowable complexity -- and perhaps more

to the point, just because it's a matter of basic civility -- how

about we try to refrain from characterizing other people's mental

states?

-

[Guest guest]

,

> While I agree that it's probably an overstatement in most cases

> (arguably excluding those involving physical violence) to say that

> someone " made " someone else cry, it's at least equally inaccurate to

> say that someone consciously " chooses " to cry. It's rather like the

> assertion that because people can generally suppress a sneeze, sneezes

> are purely voluntary. (And I'm not making that assertion up; it's out

> there.) Obviously, actions fall on a spectrum ranging from purely

> voluntary to purely involuntary, and much as many people tend to

> prefer to view the world in boolean, even manichean, terms, the fact

> is that it's more complex and subtle than that.

It also is much easier to say something " made me cry " than something

" elicited a crying response from me " and most people would interpret

it the right way. If say, " ha, that made me laugh, " not many people

would point out that whatever it was did not physically force me to

laugh.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

> > It also is much easier to say something " made me cry " than something

> > " elicited a crying response from me " and most people would interpret

> > it the right way. If say, " ha, that made me laugh, " not many people

> > would point out that whatever it was did not physically force me to

> > laugh.

> As a mature adult and my feelings are mine - no one makes me laugh or cry,

> or any other expression of emotion. I choose how to respond to stimulus.

I think you are missing two important points here. First, what I was

saying was not that someone can indeed be forced to cry, but that the

phrase " made me cry " doesn't necessarily imply that. The word " made "

does not always mean " forced. "

Second, as pointed out, emotional responses are not pure choice,

and are in large part involuntary. There is certainly a component of

choice involved in them, but that does not negate the involuntary

component. If people actually exercise purely free choice over their

emotions, I imagine most of them would be happy all the time.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Yes Kathy, my feelings are mine. But I don't think someone uses the

words yuck, or disgusting, when they are trying to call everyone together

for a chorus of kumbaya.

Desh